Psst, hey, come here. You want a crappy old car that needs a ton of work? Well, look no further; we have just the thing! Two, in fact. Your choice! It’s day two of project car week, and we’re going to look at a pair of roadsters that you might possibly, if you really put your mind to it, have ready to drive by next summer. Or the summer after.
But first let’s see who you picked as victor in our Beetle battle:
This one was close, but it appears that the blue Beetle is our winner. It’s hard to deny the appeal of a running engine in a project car; even if you end up having to tear it apart later, at least you know it was once something besides an inert hunk of metal. I guess that means the orange Bug is still “Holding Out For A Hero,” which is too bad, because to me, that patina with the classic ’70s stripes is “Almost Paradise.”
There’s a car you might have heard of called the Miata. It’s kind of obscure, but it’s been around for a few years now, so there’s a possibility you have stumbled across one. Or two. Thousand. Well, you may not realize it, but the Miata is actually an homage to a whole class of small convertible sports cars sold decades earlier. These little British and Italian wonders were fragile, finicky, rust-prone nightmares that just happened to be an absolute blast to drive during those five days a year when everything was running right.
For a long time, these little headaches-on-wheels languished on the wrong side of the classic car tracks, but they’re starting to gain some respect. But there are still plenty of cheap basket-cases and barn-finds to be had, and we’re going to take a look at a couple now.
Some Assembly Required – 1972 Fiat 124 Sport Spider – $950
Engine/drivetain: 1.6 liter twin-cam inline-4, 5 speed manual, RWD
Location: McMinnville, OR
Odometer reading: 80,000 miles claimed, but you’d have to find it in one of those boxes to check
Runs/drives? You’re kidding, right?
You know you’re in for a rough ride when the first two words of an ad listing are “Failed project.” Somebody disassembled this poor little Fiat, realized they were in over their head, and just boxed it up. You’d have to carefully go through all those boxes to see if anything is missing, but it looks like all the important bits are there: complete rolling chassis, engine (with a spare longblock), gearbox, trim, interior pieces, top – it’s like a giant model kit. I don’t know about you all, but I love a good model kit.
Once you’ve finished repainting and reassembling it, you’d have a fun little car steeped in Italian sports car history. The 124 Spider was penned at legendary design house Pininfarina, who is responsible for about half of all the drop-dead gorgeous cars you can think of. Its twin-cam engine was designed by the same guy who designed racing engines for Ferrari, the fabulously-named Aurelio Lampredi. It’s the same basic engine that gave Fiat and Lancia a string of rally titles, including the Group B manufacturer’s title in 1983. Look up on the Mount Olympus of engines, and you’ll see the Fiat twin-cam sitting there in its rightful place among the greats.
You’ll want to have the head checked out by someone who knows these cars before bolting the engine back together. This is an early belt-driven-cam engine, and belt replacement was a strictly-enforced 30,000 miles. Plenty of owners ignored that service interval, and paid the price of bent valves; Lampredi’s little wonder is an interference engine.
This 1972 124 Sport Spider is a good vintage, before smog controls started sucking the fun out of sports cars. And in its current disassembled state, you can pretty much make it your own. Paint it whatever color you like, give that famous motor a pair of Weber carbs to breathe through and run it up through the gears on a nice summer day, just soaking up the sunshine.
I mean, in a couple of years, once you get it all back together. But you gotta start somewhere, right?
A Future In British Steel – 1976 MGB – $1,200
Engine/drivetrain: 1.8 liter overhead-valve inline 4, 4 speed manual, RWD
Location: Dayton, OR
Odometer reading: 88,900 miles
Runs/drives? Starts, but won’t stay running
The MGB, especially the late rubber-bumper one, is the Rodney Dangerfield of the classic car world – it gets no respect [Editor’s note: Just wanted to chime in here to brag that I actually get this reference, for once. It’s comedian Rodney Dangerfield’s go-to line in his standup routine. -DT]. Part of it is probably just that they’re common; MG produced the B for eighteen years, making over half a million of them. They’ve never been expensive, so they tended to get abused and neglected. Combine that with a primitive gremlin-prone electrical system and not especially good performance even when they are running right, and the natural habitat for a late MGB becomes that muddy patch of gravel next to the garage.
Which is a shame, because like the Fiat, this car has pedigree. MG started racing in 1924 and didn’t stop until British Leyland imploded in 1986. Stirling Moss set a land speed record in one in 1957. Carroll Shelby’s first race car was a 1949 MG TC. My dad wooed my mom in a 1961 MGA. There’s a lot of important history behind that octagon.
But as we’re all painfully aware, the 1970s did terrible things to cars, and the MGB was no exception. It lost its sleek chrome bumpers, first saddled with enormous rubber overriders, then replaced entirely by a massive black rubber nose, sort of the automotive equivalent of Groucho glasses. The ride height was raised an inch to meet new US headlight height requirements, upsetting its chassis balance. And smog controls choked the 1.8 liter B-series engine from a respectable 95 horsepower down to 63. All those indignities are reversible now, of course, but it does cost money.
But as starting points go, this little red B doesn’t look too bad. If it starts, then at least that miserable little paperweight of a Zenith-Stromberg carb is doing its job. I’d suspect that the fuel delivery problem is down to the SU fuel pump, which is electric, uses points that can burn out [Editor’s note: Yes, literally points in the fuel pump. I’d never heard of it myself, but I can say that of all cars to have an electrical technology I’ve never heard of, I’d rather it not be a British one. Fuel pump points in an MG sound like a nightmare. -DT]. It isn’t too rusty, what you can see of the interior looks all right (and I covet that aftermarket wood steering wheel), and everything else is available from Moss Motors and other vendors. And if you don’t want that aftermarket hard top, you could probably sell it to recoup some expense, even without the back window.
So there we have it – two flavors of do-it-yourself roadster fun, either pasta primavera or a good hearty bangers and mash. What’ll you have?
As a rubber bumper MGB owner, I voted Fiat. The reason is that there’s no reason to ever buy a basketcase RBB. You can find a really nice one for $8,000-9,000, and you’ll always spend way more than that fixing up a basket case. Heck, someone in my MG group was just selling an immaculate 1979 in green, with a V8 conversion, so many upgrades, chrome bumper conversion, and beautiful interior for $13,000.
MGB’s are cheap to buy, cheap to insure, super fun, easy to work on, and parts are available and cheap. But buy one with at least a good solid body that runs well.
That rusted MG is a no go. I bet the floor pans and doglegs are gone too. I totally restored a 67 B back in the day and loved it, but in this case, I’m going with the Fiat.
For a California person the engine strangulation issues with the MGB are not really something you can roll back – would have to be a pre-’75 car to do that.
I have had a long-time love for the looks of the Fiat, and of the two choices I think I’d much rather have the Lego set. Also, it brings back memories of a certain gal who drove one in college. I was completely head over heels for her but hopelessly stuck in the friend zone as her partner for seeing art films together since her boyfriend wasn’t into it. She makes her living writing erotic fiction now…
I had a ’75 Fiat Spider for a couple of years and LOVED IT (when it wasn’t giving me fits) so there is a huge nostalgia feeling for me. It was perfect in its imperfection! We have a 2019 500C now with the retracting top, Beats stereo, little turbo engine and are REALLY ENJOYING IT in a large part because it is a bit of a throwback for me. Never understood why these don’t get more appreciation and it’s gratifying to see all of the positive comments here.
My wife had a 73 MGB, and it was actually reliable and a blast to drive. But there is a sense of “been there, done that”. However, I’ve never wrenched on an Italian machine. Hmmm…
I scrolled back up to see where the Fiat was so I might actually purchase it.
Sadly it’s on the wrong coast.
I mean… You’ll probably have to disassemble the mg anyway, so at least they part is done on the fiat! Seems like more of a blank slate.
On a related note, you guys really find cars putting the s*&$ in s$#@ box. I’m excited to find out how bad it can get.
The Fiat is the superior driving experience, once sorted. Plus, that particular engine is just fun to work on. And yes, I know what the letters mean. Having had a 131 Mirafiori once upon a time, it would be like a trip into the past for me. Besides, if you don’t like working on cars, why are you here?
As the owner of a $1200 79 Fiat 2000 id take the fiat everyday. Love MGs too but the fiat isnt all too complicated, plenty of parts support, you can see any normally hidden problems while assembling and is a cooler car.
Besides who isnt impressed with the owner of an italian sports car?
When you’re done, the story of the Fiat as well as the driving experience will be better. Both cars will need to be further disassembled as an early step, and neither will be re-assembled using only the parts purchased here. Keep the original engines, the sound is an important part of these cars.
I was all ready to vote MG because there are definitely parts missing on that Fiat and the MG is sort of a weird blank canvas but then I saw something about British electrics and changed my mind.
I’ve had MGBs and Triumphs for years. I can’t imagine taking on that MGB in that condition after what I’ve already been through. Also: Bill of Sale only, and no photos of the footwells, which means they’re almost certainly gone.
When buying a project car, saving $1,000 on the starting point usually results in spending $3,000 or more to get back to the same point. If you must have an MGB, pay more and find a better one. This one will likely see two or three more owners and ten or twenty years before it’s restored or sold for scrap. Rubber bumpers models really are gutless, and it’s going to be a long time, if ever, before they’re rare enough to warrant serious investment into a restoration.
That’s a hell of a lot of assembly required, but the Fiat is the better choice by far. It’s also the more interesting, more fun car.
MG = More Garage
I’m too old for fun, but I vote for the FIAT despite the mix and match body. I’m thinking it is already 1/10th of the way to becoming a toy for motorsport. (-: The MGB would be an exercise in frustration for what? A rough example of a model that was well past its prime and in its ugliest iteration in 1976.
West coast Fiat vs a Rust belt MG, no contest. They both need work but the less rust the better.
This, that run of rust bubbling on the MG’s trunk (boot?) lid made me recoil, hard.
Okay, I’ll be that guy to mention they are both in Oregon. You got tricked by the “Dayton” part of the post. If that MGB was in the midwest, it’d be much lighter weight.
The (mostly) chrome bumpers alone put me in the driver seat of the Fiat. Hopefully the right bolts are included to install said driver seat.
Back in the day, the electric fuel pumps were sometimes a problem on new MGBs. If, upon turning the ignition switch on, the driver did not hear the sound of the electric fuel pump, he/she would hit the fuel pump with a fist and the pump would usually start right up. In 1971, I had neighbor who had this problem on his 1971 MGB. Later, I met an MGB owner who carried a rubber mallet for the purpose of whacking his fuel pump when it did not turn on.
IIRC, the MGB fuel pump was located behind the passengers seat.
Fiat, the f#$&ING body alone is worth it! Little bumpers 🙂 and a great power to weight ratio.
Wonderful little cars to toss about on a twisty dirt road, cue Rush “Red Barchetta”.
Plus the fact that it’s apart makes it dead simple to do it up right and have a terrific piece of history to enjoy!
So jealous of the lucky sob that gets this gem.
Tell me about it. You have no idea how much I wish I had the space and time to take this one on.
Fiat. Drive both and you’ll understand. Twin cam 1.6 & disc brakes. Small chrome bumpers. No smog gear. Ample, easily sourced parts & upgrades. And no visits Lucas, the Lord of Darkness. What’s not to like?
To my naive millennial eyes, old British and Italian roadsters are like TV dinners: at some point long ago, they were new and interesting and all the rage, but my modern sensibilities just can’t comprehend why anyone voluntarily gets unironically excited about them when seemingly far better options now exist, some of which don’t even rhyme with Reatta!
I agree, but for some reason that chrome bumper Fiat is working for me. I only had a short ride in one back in the day, but she was a beauty! The driver, I mean. The Fiat was a rubber bumper variety, but still pretty cool!
I’m casting my lot with Nigel and the MGB
It was either the XTC reference or “Straight Outta Abingdon,” but I wasn’t sure if the location of the old MG factory was common enough knowledge.
The Fiat may be a good candidate for an EV conversion, since somebody took the time to strip every single part of the gasoline drivetrain out of the car for you!
I thought the same thing as I was reading! It doesn’t matter if you only have a range of 150 km or so if it’s a weekend fun machine for short hops in the summer, and having all that torque on tap in a small, light car would be an absolute hoot. Also, 130 hp would be relatively easy to get out of an electric motor, right? If David weren’t dead-set on turning that blue mouse hotel into an EV, I’d recommend this as a project for him instead.
I was thinking the same thing while reading this topic, regarding EV conversions.
130 horsepower peak is what you’d get out of a Netgain Hyperdrive system with a 9″ motor, and a 144V battery pack with enough current capability to maximize the output of the inverter. You’d also get slightly more with a WarP 9″ motor running a Soliton 1 controller and a 192V pack, limiting the voltage applied to the motor to ~160V, but this setup would make 200+ lb-ft of torque and break stuff. There are many other possibilities. The batteries in the Tesla Model 3 have such good specific capacity that you could have either of the two cars running a 20-25 kWh pack and weigh close to what it does stock with an internal combustion engine, and get ~100 miles range, stock-bodied with no aerodynamic improvements.
The frame and driveline for both cars were not made to handle the torque of either of the above hypothetical setups, and upgrades will be needed. Worth it, IMO. I say this as someone with an electric Triumph GT6 in progress, which will eventually be turned into a pseudo-streamliner with long-legged gearing and roll cage, aiming for looks reminiscent of the Triumph ADU1B LeMans race car.
You can see my GT6 in my profile. At some point, I will swap out the Prestolite MTC4001, Soliton 1 controller, and CALB LiFePO4 battery pack that are in it for a Tesla drive unit and some Panasonic NCR21700A modules. If I do that, it is possible that my car could weigh less than it did stock as a gasoline burner, but the possibility of a 200+ mile range would be there if I get the aerodynamics right.
They’re both going to be a colossal headache to get running, so I’ll choose the pre-smogger which, to my Philistine eyes, looks nicer and whose juice is worth the squeeze.
Realistically speaking both of these cars are going to need a complete tear down, and the cheaper, better looking, and better performing (when completed) car is already there.
Besides 72 is my birth year, and I have a thing for Italian cars.
Gimme the Fiat, throw a Miata drivetrain in it for modern reliability and more power. Wheeee!!!
Close, but I’d keep it Italian and find a wrecked 124 Spyder for the drivetrain donor. The sound of the 1.4 MultiAir turbo would fit this car to a T.
hmm somebody has had to do that by now right? i wanna see it