It’s easy to tell other people how to live their lives. It’s easy to say to people you don’t know that they should buy electric cars in the blissful abstraction of the Internet. Reality is a lot harder. And the reality, according to a recent study, is that owning an electric car is difficult for those who don’t have access to a home charger.
Yes, we’re going to beat up the universe for not providing enough chargers, because the big concern most EV owners have is that they can’t charge easily. Specifically, we’re going to beat up Electrify America, which may be one of the companies that has, ironically, done the most damage to electrification in America.
Who else is damaging the move towards electrification? The American Petroleum Institute and the American Fuel & Petrochemical Manufacturers, both of whom are suing to stop the Biden Administration’s new rules on emissions. Rules that, I’d point out, were cut back fairly dramatically to make it easier for automakers. This is also a little ironic given that the Biden Administration has quietly been great for America’s oil producers.
Whether accurate or not, Elon Musk is the one individual who usually gets credit for electrifying America and he wants to get paid for it. According to Musk, that’s gonna happen.
Owners Are Cranky About Electric Charging
I should clarify right off the bat that this survey is from global consulting firm McKinsey & Co. and some people have thoughts about McKinsey that are not charitable. The survey, however, sounds correct. (I mean, McKinsey may have aided a pharmaceutical company in the creation of an opioid crisis that wrecked lives and communities, but the firm’s advice was at least accurate. Terrible, but accurate). [Ed Note: My view and Matt’s don’t align on McKinsey. I think, though the company has a checkered history, it also does a lot of good, helping struggling organizations optimize and, in some cases, stay afloat. (A close family member of mine works for McKinsey). But I get it. -DT].
The data we have comes via a survey done by McKinsey’s Center for Future Mobility, which I have not seen, but was viewed by Automotive News:
Twenty-nine percent of EV owners across the globe said they’re likely to reverse course. That hit 46 percent in the U.S. Consumers globally said their top concern was the inadequacy of the public charging infrastructure. They also cited concerns with high costs of ownership and detrimental impact to long-distance trips.
“I didn’t expect that,” Philipp Kampshoff, leader of the consulting firm’s Center for Future Mobility, told Automotive News. “I thought, ‘Once an EV buyer, always an EV buyer.’ ”
That sounds right to me. Our non-Tesla EV charging infrastructure is bad. I was at an EVGo station yesterday and it was packed, which makes sense because there are only two non-Tesla stations near me and they’re always clogged with Uber drivers and the wait times are terrible. It’s a big reason why I’m not getting a PHEV or an EV.
I also think this is where Tesla has been successful. The Supercharger network is great. Up-time is really high, and because it’s only served Tesla cars up until recently, issues have been minimal. Tesla also went to a lot of prime spots for charging early and won that battle.
If only there were another company that had a huge amount of money and a big lead that could have provided an alternative to Tesla. If only it was actually owned by a car company…
In Ultimate Rebuke Of Electrify America, Porsche Adds ChargePoint Capability
I’ve already gone full batting practice on Electrify America, so I’ll just summarize for those who are new to the awfulness that is Electrify America. Some smart lawyer or planner at Volkswagen convinced a judge that, instead of just turning over all those billions of dollars in Dieselgate fines to the government, the company would take a couple of those billions and build out an EV charging network.
That network became Electrify America. It could have been the alternative to Tesla’s Supercharger network, but instead, it became a laughing stock. I’ve rarely been to an Electrify America charging station where everything just worked. Between credit card readers failing and chargers freezing up, it’s been a bad experience for myself and many other people I know who have roadtripped electric cars.
This failure led Ford and, eventually, Volkswagen to agree to adopt Tesla’s NACS charging standard for future vehicles. And now, there’s this, from Porsche:
Porsche Cars North America, Inc. (PCNA) today announced it has signed an agreement with ChargePoint, a leading provider of charging solutions for electric vehicles (EVs), which will enable access to its charging network within the Porsche Charging Service. The collaboration will increase the number of chargers available to Porsche customers to more than 86,000 across the United States.
“We passionately believe in choice, and as a result we are constantly looking for opportunities to enhance our customer experience and expand charging options,” said Timo Resch, President and CEO of PCNA, “this is a significant step in that direction, and well-timed as we look forward to the arrival of both the new Taycan arriving at Porsche Centers this summer but also the all-new Macan Electric later this year.”
On the one hand, this was probably inevitable. Electrify America, for whatever reason, was unable to get big enough to serve all VW brands, and most buyers like being able to just connect to a charger and not have to mess with a bunch of different apps. By integrating ChargePoint, Porsche owners will be able to connect to a charger via the My Porsche app and not have to fuss. I suspect this isn’t the last company that’ll get integrated into Porsche’s system.
On the other hand… lol.
The Oil Lobby Wants To Save You From Electric Cars
It’s important to reiterate that there’s no specific federal mandate saying that car companies can’t sell gas-powered cars. There’s a formula for emissions/mileage (well, two formulas, sort of) that automakers have to meet, and the federal government leaves what that technology is up to automakers. Can automakers meet those goals without selling a lot of electric cars? Probably not.
I mention this because this is why two oil and gas lobbying groups are suing the Biden EPA’s new, kinda relaxed regulations.
“Today, we are taking action to protect American consumers, U.S. manufacturing workers and our nation’s hard-won energy security from this intrusive government mandate,” API Senior Vice President and General Counsel Ryan Meyers said, voicing a common refrain from opponents of electric vehicles.
[…]
“EPA has exceeded its congressional authority with this regulation that will eliminate most new gas cars and traditional hybrids from the U.S. market in less than a decade,” Meyers added. “We look forward to making our case in court.”
BTW, because of President Biden’s policies, these companies are all more profitable than ever. We have a system of government that allows this to happen and so these groups can exercise their rights as they see fit, but I’d just point out that automakers seem fairly happy with the revised regulations.
Elon Musk On Track For Biggest Payday Ever
Both Tesla shareholder resolutions are currently passing by wide margins!
♥️♥️ Thanks for your support!! ♥️♥️ pic.twitter.com/udf56VGQdo
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 13, 2024
I’m not sure what to make of the tweet above, but it seems like Elon Musk is confident he’s going to get the biggest paycheck in human history. Will a Delaware judge allow the company to leave to avoid enforcing its judgment? That remains to be seen.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Man, this song from post-punk Irish band Fontaines D.C. is extremely good and I can’t wait to hear the rest of this album, which comes out at the end of summer. Also, what is this video?
The Big Question
Does this study sound right to you?
The economic argument for EVs is pretty weak until gas hits $4-5/gal. Given current prices, it’s no surprise that Americans aren’t in love with them. I was at a Pilot the other day and gas was $3.09/gal and the EV chargers were $0.65/kw. Assuming 35mpg and 4mi/kw, that’s nearly DOUBLE the fuel cost/mile for EV over gas ($0.163 vs $0.088), plus you have to wait longer. Charging at home is, of course, much cheaper, and still makes sense for our commute, but not everyone is driving 60-70mi/day.
Just noting that the gas price & mpg of this scenario are on the low end (gas price) and high end (vehicle mpg), while $0.65/kw is on the way high end.
There are a number of ways to look at this, but on average the numbers you used were about as favorable to the gas option, and unfavorable to the EV option as possible.
Yes. It was a snapshot in time. And the most expensive charging rate I have ever personally seen. As the internets say, your mileage may vary…
(35mpg hwy is actually probably more common than 4mi/kw hwy now that I think about it. My mini is averaging closer to 3.5mi/kw on a mostly hwy commute, and I suspect larger EVs would be lower – that’s the kicker with EVs on road trips – speed kills your efficiency)
Here in the PNW gas is $5/gal in the city and electricity is $0.13 at home so your numbers swap.
Hence the higher uptake of EVs there. The at home rate here (TN) is $0.11, so it is still cheaper to charge an EV at home than running on gas.
The shocking bit is the $0.54/kw delta between this charger and the base rate for electricity!
I’m not sure that’s a great example though.
This has been a relatively benign summer for gas prices and yet where I am gas is approx $4.50 and on the other coast it’s easily north of $5.
I don’t imagine it’s hard to find a bunch of places in the US even now that are $4+/gal. And this isn’t a particularly bad time for gas prices here.
Just wait until there’s an actual price increase.
I could see the EV study being correct (I would guess the range would be somewhere 20-50% of EV owners wanting to go back to ICE), but certainly depending on who is polled. The charging infrastructure does indeed suck, but is slowly getting better. I’m certainly on the side that I don’t care to deal with ICE maintenance and other hassles in any new car, so have no plans on going back, but the potential of EVs and charging infrastructure is lagging well behind what it could potentially be. I really thought by now that my 2017 bolt would seem entirely outdated, but I have really zero interest in any of the new EVs coming out, as they are mostly just heavy, bloated, and software oriented.
I’ve personally had few issues with charging on road trips, but I’m also an engineer who researches the routes ahead of time, and can do basic quick estimates on charge needed for different trips in different conditions (and I also know that I need a backup plan for any trip involving EA chargers). I could see anyone who treats an EV like their previous ICE vehicle will not do well. Anyone who goes by the “drive till the gas light is on and then look for fueling” will be hosed in most places. The general population will have a difficult time until EV charging is ubiquitous to the point that it requires zero thought. Like most things, the situation could be much improved if people would learn how to use something new and actually think, but good luck with that happening.
My girlfriend keeps cautioning me against going full EV because of this mindset. She told me that her friend complained that he has to plan his route when travelling. That’s it. That’s the full extent of the problem he has driving an EV. Sounds like his complaints aren’t even about charging station uptime, just route planning.
That doesn’t surprise me, you could have an EV that is the same purchase price as an ICE, has zero maintenance other than tires for 200k miles, costs 1/10 as much to run as an ICE, but there will still be people who will overlook everything because “my favorite place to eat lunch on my once a year roadtrip doesn’t have a charger, so an EV is non-feasible”
My wife has trepidations about EVs for this reason as well, that we’d need a combustion vehicle to go on road trips because charging an EV would be inconvenient. There are apps specifically for planning routing and even figure in the charging time and SoC percentages at each stop, based on the car, so it’s not even that bad in that regard. I’ve also learned that charging doesn’t even have to add a ton of time to the trip, like a five-and-a-half-hour trip from NEOhio to DC is extended by about forty to fifty minutes, depending on the car you have. Doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. I guess it can be mitigated by going with a PHEV instead of a full BEV, which is the debate I’ve been having in my head, but I’m not as worried about the long trips as she is, especially as they’re just a once- or twice-a-year thing anyway.
I’ve taken to messing with route planning apps just to see, and I’m seeing the same sort of results. I currently have a PHEV, and I’ve considered just bumping up to the RAV4 Prime to get a bit more EV range, noticeably more space and significantly more power, but I keep looking at EVs, since only taking a couple long trips each year makes me a pretty good candidate for one.
While I hate Elon this is the benefit of Tesla. I put in my destination and leave. I don’t make any further consideration unless there is a specific place I want to stop like Harris Ranch. The Bolt is a great car but the slower charging and relying on CCS still let it down on road trips but that has not stopped me from considering a used one as a second household vehicle.
You’d think that would be idiot-proofed enough for the general population, but then there are the “my navigation system told me to turn left, so I swerved into a lake” people who would probably even screw that up.
I could see the EV study being correct (I would guess the range would be somewhere 20-50% of EV owners wanting to go back to ICE), but certainly depending on who is polled. The charging infrastructure does indeed suck, but is slowly getting better. I’m certainly on the side that I don’t care to deal with ICE maintenance and other hassles in any new car, so have no plans on going back, but the potential of EVs and charging infrastructure is lagging well behind what it could potentially be. I really thought by now that my 2017 bolt would seem entirely outdated, but I have really zero interest in any of the new EVs coming out, as they are mostly just heavy, bloated, and software oriented.
I’ve personally had few issues with charging on road trips, but I’m also an engineer who researches the routes ahead of time, and can do basic quick estimates on charge needed for different trips in different conditions (and I also know that I need a backup plan for any trip involving EA chargers). I could see anyone who treats an EV like their previous ICE vehicle will not do well. Anyone who goes by the “drive till the gas light is on and then look for fueling” will be hosed in most places. The general population will have a difficult time until EV charging is ubiquitous to the point that it requires zero thought. Like most things, the situation could be much improved if people would learn how to use something new and actually think, but good luck with that happening.
My girlfriend keeps cautioning me against going full EV because of this mindset. She told me that her friend complained that he has to plan his route when travelling. That’s it. That’s the full extent of the problem he has driving an EV. Sounds like his complaints aren’t even about charging station uptime, just route planning.
That doesn’t surprise me, you could have an EV that is the same purchase price as an ICE, has zero maintenance other than tires for 200k miles, costs 1/10 as much to run as an ICE, but there will still be people who will overlook everything because “my favorite place to eat lunch on my once a year roadtrip doesn’t have a charger, so an EV is non-feasible”
My wife has trepidations about EVs for this reason as well, that we’d need a combustion vehicle to go on road trips because charging an EV would be inconvenient. There are apps specifically for planning routing and even figure in the charging time and SoC percentages at each stop, based on the car, so it’s not even that bad in that regard. I’ve also learned that charging doesn’t even have to add a ton of time to the trip, like a five-and-a-half-hour trip from NEOhio to DC is extended by about forty to fifty minutes, depending on the car you have. Doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. I guess it can be mitigated by going with a PHEV instead of a full BEV, which is the debate I’ve been having in my head, but I’m not as worried about the long trips as she is, especially as they’re just a once- or twice-a-year thing anyway.
I’ve taken to messing with route planning apps just to see, and I’m seeing the same sort of results. I currently have a PHEV, and I’ve considered just bumping up to the RAV4 Prime to get a bit more EV range, noticeably more space and significantly more power, but I keep looking at EVs, since only taking a couple long trips each year makes me a pretty good candidate for one.
While I hate Elon this is the benefit of Tesla. I put in my destination and leave. I don’t make any further consideration unless there is a specific place I want to stop like Harris Ranch. The Bolt is a great car but the slower charging and relying on CCS still let it down on road trips but that has not stopped me from considering a used one as a second household vehicle.
You’d think that would be idiot-proofed enough for the general population, but then there are the “my navigation system told me to turn left, so I swerved into a lake” people who would probably even screw that up.
If you’re regularly taking your PHEV to public chargers, it’s certainly not worth buying one. You definitely want a regular hybrid.
If you’re regularly taking your PHEV to public chargers, it’s certainly not worth buying one. You definitely want a regular hybrid.
Let’s also talk about how thieves are stealing the copper out of the charging stations now.
Thieves are targeting EV charging stations | AP News
Okay, but they have also been routinely stealing catalytic converters so much that we have a cottage industry of protectors and some mfrs are planning around cat security.
Thieves are a problem for everyone.
Probably organized by the flash mob robber gangs terrorizing Target, Pharmacies and jewelry stores. It’s a conspiracy I tell yah.
Remember when flash mobs resulted in sudden dancing in malls? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Missed that. IIRC I was distracted with family, career and couple of growing boys. That decade is but a hazy memory.
I think it was the 90’s when it happened. You definitely sound like you were busy.
The 90’s. Heard from someone that they happened. I recall a gen 1 Taurus wagon, a Merkur Scorpio, Olds Intrigue. Home renovations, building computers as a side hustle. Getting into consulting and working for IBM, Deloitte and Touche, and Arthur Anderson.
Nice!
Those firms demand your life plus 30% if you want to climb the ladder. Eventually got disillusioned and went back into pure tech stuff via SAP. By then the marriage was done. I bought a new 2001 Corvette Coupe to salve my wounds.
Ow. Sorry to hear that.
Life’s a learning process. Experience and mistakes are part of that.
Yep.
Yes they are but there is a difference between exhaust delete amd bneing able to refuel.
Maybe some Daleks?
Unless they hit all the charging stations, you can always go to another one.
Driving without a cat is illegal in many states and may be quite noticeable depending on your car. The other problem is that during the height of the thefts, they were on backorder for many vehicles. So not only were they expensive to replace, you had to wait.
It’s always the goddamn Daleks!
Yep
Let’s also talk about how thieves are stealing the copper out of the charging stations now.
Thieves are targeting EV charging stations | AP News
Okay, but they have also been routinely stealing catalytic converters so much that we have a cottage industry of protectors and some mfrs are planning around cat security.
Thieves are a problem for everyone.
Probably organized by the flash mob robber gangs terrorizing Target, Pharmacies and jewelry stores. It’s a conspiracy I tell yah.
Remember when flash mobs resulted in sudden dancing in malls? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Missed that. IIRC I was distracted with family, career and couple of growing boys. That decade is but a hazy memory.
I think it was the 90’s when it happened. You definitely sound like you were busy.
The 90’s. Heard from someone that they happened. I recall a gen 1 Taurus wagon, a Merkur Scorpio, Olds Intrigue. Home renovations, building computers as a side hustle. Getting into consulting and working for IBM, Deloitte and Touche, and Arthur Anderson.
Nice!
Those firms demand your life plus 30% if you want to climb the ladder. Eventually got disillusioned and went back into pure tech stuff via SAP. By then the marriage was done. I bought a new 2001 Corvette Coupe to salve my wounds.
Ow. Sorry to hear that.
Life’s a learning process. Experience and mistakes are part of that.
Yep.
Yes they are but there is a difference between exhaust delete amd bneing able to refuel.
Maybe some Daleks?
Unless they hit all the charging stations, you can always go to another one.
Driving without a cat is illegal in many states and may be quite noticeable depending on your car. The other problem is that during the height of the thefts, they were on backorder for many vehicles. So not only were they expensive to replace, you had to wait.
It’s always the goddamn Daleks!
Yep
Oh, it’s Mckinsey who said that? A company with major ties to oil and gas. Who did things like this- https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231107-top-consultancy-undermining-climate-change-fight-whistleblowers and https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/business/mckinsey-climate-change.html. Says a thing that harms their economic interest is actually totally bad? Well color me suprised. This like management saying 46% of workers actually don’t want a break. It’s hard to be a more than a little skeptical when the results are of such beneficial economic interest to them.
Oh, it’s Mckinsey who said that? A company with major ties to oil and gas. Who did things like this- https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231107-top-consultancy-undermining-climate-change-fight-whistleblowers and https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/business/mckinsey-climate-change.html. Says a thing that harms their economic interest is actually totally bad? Well color me suprised. This like management saying 46% of workers actually don’t want a break. It’s hard to be a more than a little skeptical when the results are of such beneficial economic interest to them.
Surveys are always to be met with a bit of side-eye, but a scenario of early adopters wanting to switch back is most definitely possible.
It’s like being a one of those fancy parties where some people drink too much and impulsively jump in the pool for funsies. Except, a bunch of them forgot to take their wallet and phone out of their pockets, and come to the conclusion that what seemed like a cool idea at the time might have been a bit rash, and are ready to towel off.
Surveys are always to be met with a bit of side-eye, but a scenario of early adopters wanting to switch back is most definitely possible.
It’s like being a one of those fancy parties where some people drink too much and impulsively jump in the pool for funsies. Except, a bunch of them forgot to take their wallet and phone out of their pockets, and come to the conclusion that what seemed like a cool idea at the time might have been a bit rash, and are ready to towel off.
My wife also went back to her Geo Tracker (Later commandeered my Ford Ranger) after her Fiat 500e’s battery took a dump and Fiat bought the car back. Now she won’t consider a EV. She is open to a hybrid or PHEV, but now it will have to be in a “mid-size” truck form.
P.S. The Maverick has a interior that is too funky for her.
Jeep Gladiator?
It is an option, but no 4xe available yet.
Bummer.
My wife also went back to her Geo Tracker (Later commandeered my Ford Ranger) after her Fiat 500e’s battery took a dump and Fiat bought the car back. Now she won’t consider a EV. She is open to a hybrid or PHEV, but now it will have to be in a “mid-size” truck form.
P.S. The Maverick has a interior that is too funky for her.
Jeep Gladiator?
It is an option, but no 4xe available yet.
Bummer.
By the math, don’t most car-owning Americans have a driveway/garage to park their cars in? Don’t those people charge at night? I can’t help but feel like the difficulty with publicly available charging is overblown except for those exceptions that drive hundreds of km/day. I get that there are a ton of city-dwelling car-owners who street park and rely on public charging but that can’t possibly account for the stated 46% of EV owners.
…
A hearty “No Comment” on McKinsey from this Canuck (*cough cough* Policies, procedures often broken in awarding contracts to under-fire consulting firm: auditor general)
More people live in condos and apartments than houses and of those that do live in houses there is a good percentage that fill their garage with junk instead of cars.
Most people in North America live in houses.
While that may be true (I don’t care enough to look it up; I know many people live in houses), many people live in cities and that means apartments, condos, houses with street parking, etc. where they can’t install a charger or even run an extension cord. Arguably, cities are the best places for EVs because the traffic is heavy, distances are short and cities can get more benefit from reduced air pollution than rural areas.
Basically, cities would benefit the most from EVs, but they are the most difficult place to own an EV.
It is true. For some reason urban dwellers think everyone lives in apartments when it’s simply not true.
I agree with your other points though.
As a former Urban Dweller, I have a distinct differentiation point of city to suburb which is based on how many apartment towers there are vs houses. Given how expensive land is in a downtown area, I automatically expect more apartments than houses. It’s definitely a bias and I own it.
Apartment living is expanding quicker than living in houses, but at the moment, apartments are less common.
In a decade I believe things will be quite a bit different.
That is extremely depressing. I absolutely hated living in an apartment.
As a sidebar, why do they call them apartments when they’re all stuck together like that?
Great username! Lol
Damn good question.
Also, why do we park on the driveway and drive on the parkway?
Why do we say Dead as a Doornail when a Doornail never lived?
You can have a bias, but I don’t think it’s fair to claim something unlikely as fact without proof.
Every metric I see online shows that the majority of Americans still live in houses.
Fair enough
All the best cities already have great EV networks…trams, subways, LRT… 😀
Monorail!
Look at Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook! By gum, it put them on the map!
Exactly!
Living in a house is fast becoming a luxury most can’t afford.
That’s unfortunately true in many areas. It’s too bad work from home didn’t take off. That way people could live in affordable markets but still make good money.
I think that was part of the problem, the remote work people gained the freedom to move to cheaper areas and made them not cheap anymore.
It’s true that Americans are more likely to live in detached houses than Europeans – in part it’s a cultural thing that we got from Britain, although the best most of them could manage was semi-detached despite looting a quarter of the world for two centuries* – and I suspect that EV owners would be more likely the ability to charge at home than the average, so any bias in the poll of existing owners would be in favor of people who can charge easily.
*I kid! I love and respect the British! I mean, not enough to let them off the hook for all of the looting thing, but these days they’re doing it indirectly, like we do.
That needs to change.
Yes. I don’t think it will be anytime soon though, there are so many forces working against it.
Also, when many people finally can afford a house, they won’t want/ can’t afford a new car payment. I almost went catatonic when my wife totaled her car 1 month after we bought a house, and 2 days before a vacation. I was in a financial panic for the whole trip.
Yup. I’ve vowed to never have a car payment again if I’m to have any hope of home ownership.
More people may live in condos & apartments but I specifically wonder about *car-owning* people. City-dwellers are less likely to own a car.
If they have an underground parking space in their condo/building they should have access to charging. (Condo boards here in Ontario are *required* to approve a resident’s request to install a charger in their parking spot unless some serious hurdle exists.)
I’ve been a suburbanite with a long-ass driveway; a city dweller with no car; a city dweller who street-parks; a city dweller with a postage-stamp driveway… honestly I’m just confused who the people are that bought an EV without a plan for charging it beyond public options, or who lean most heavily on public chargers. I didn’t buy my first EV until I had a driveway to park it in. /shrug
Stanley Mug Syndrome?
“more people may live in condos & apartments… ”
They absolutely do not, at least not here in the US. So that’s not something to worry about yet.
EVs are not for every situation, which is why you would think most people would plan somewhat for EV ownership before taking it on. It’s way more likely this survey was poorly done (or purposely poorly done based on the desires of those running the survey).
No reason to look for unlikely reasons when the most likely reasons (money and desired narrative) line up with the “results” of this survey.
No, this is not true by any metric I’ve ever seen. On average, I think something like 65% of Americans live in houses vs Apts/condos.
Other studies have shown that 1 in 8 Americans are living in an apt, though I’m not sure where condo dwellers come in.
Filling your garage with junk is meaningless, you can still run a cord to the driveway.
Sure, you can run that cord out and then that night comes where the neighborhood kid hooks up their karaoke machine.
Haha. Those damn karaoke hooligans are always causing a ruckus.
Tell me about it! There’s only so many times you can hear “Tubthumping” by Chumbawamba before something snaps.
By the math, don’t most car-owning Americans have a driveway/garage to park their cars in? Don’t those people charge at night? I can’t help but feel like the difficulty with publicly available charging is overblown except for those exceptions that drive hundreds of km/day. I get that there are a ton of city-dwelling car-owners who street park and rely on public charging but that can’t possibly account for the stated 46% of EV owners.
…
A hearty “No Comment” on McKinsey from this Canuck (*cough cough* Policies, procedures often broken in awarding contracts to under-fire consulting firm: auditor general)
More people live in condos and apartments than houses and of those that do live in houses there is a good percentage that fill their garage with junk instead of cars.
Most people in North America live in houses.
While that may be true (I don’t care enough to look it up; I know many people live in houses), many people live in cities and that means apartments, condos, houses with street parking, etc. where they can’t install a charger or even run an extension cord. Arguably, cities are the best places for EVs because the traffic is heavy, distances are short and cities can get more benefit from reduced air pollution than rural areas.
Basically, cities would benefit the most from EVs, but they are the most difficult place to own an EV.
It is true. For some reason urban dwellers think everyone lives in apartments when it’s simply not true.
I agree with your other points though.
As a former Urban Dweller, I have a distinct differentiation point of city to suburb which is based on how many apartment towers there are vs houses. Given how expensive land is in a downtown area, I automatically expect more apartments than houses. It’s definitely a bias and I own it.
Apartment living is expanding quicker than living in houses, but at the moment, apartments are less common.
In a decade I believe things will be quite a bit different.
That is extremely depressing. I absolutely hated living in an apartment.
As a sidebar, why do they call them apartments when they’re all stuck together like that?
Great username! Lol
Damn good question.
Also, why do we park on the driveway and drive on the parkway?
Why do we say Dead as a Doornail when a Doornail never lived?
You can have a bias, but I don’t think it’s fair to claim something unlikely as fact without proof.
Every metric I see online shows that the majority of Americans still live in houses.
Fair enough
All the best cities already have great EV networks…trams, subways, LRT… 😀
Monorail!
Look at Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook! By gum, it put them on the map!
Exactly!
Living in a house is fast becoming a luxury most can’t afford.
That’s unfortunately true in many areas. It’s too bad work from home didn’t take off. That way people could live in affordable markets but still make good money.
I think that was part of the problem, the remote work people gained the freedom to move to cheaper areas and made them not cheap anymore.
It’s true that Americans are more likely to live in detached houses than Europeans – in part it’s a cultural thing that we got from Britain, although the best most of them could manage was semi-detached despite looting a quarter of the world for two centuries* – and I suspect that EV owners would be more likely the ability to charge at home than the average, so any bias in the poll of existing owners would be in favor of people who can charge easily.
*I kid! I love and respect the British! I mean, not enough to let them off the hook for all of the looting thing, but these days they’re doing it indirectly, like we do.
That needs to change.
Yes. I don’t think it will be anytime soon though, there are so many forces working against it.
Also, when many people finally can afford a house, they won’t want/ can’t afford a new car payment. I almost went catatonic when my wife totaled her car 1 month after we bought a house, and 2 days before a vacation. I was in a financial panic for the whole trip.
Yup. I’ve vowed to never have a car payment again if I’m to have any hope of home ownership.
More people may live in condos & apartments but I specifically wonder about *car-owning* people. City-dwellers are less likely to own a car.
If they have an underground parking space in their condo/building they should have access to charging. (Condo boards here in Ontario are *required* to approve a resident’s request to install a charger in their parking spot unless some serious hurdle exists.)
I’ve been a suburbanite with a long-ass driveway; a city dweller with no car; a city dweller who street-parks; a city dweller with a postage-stamp driveway… honestly I’m just confused who the people are that bought an EV without a plan for charging it beyond public options, or who lean most heavily on public chargers. I didn’t buy my first EV until I had a driveway to park it in. /shrug
Stanley Mug Syndrome?
“more people may live in condos & apartments… ”
They absolutely do not, at least not here in the US. So that’s not something to worry about yet.
EVs are not for every situation, which is why you would think most people would plan somewhat for EV ownership before taking it on. It’s way more likely this survey was poorly done (or purposely poorly done based on the desires of those running the survey).
No reason to look for unlikely reasons when the most likely reasons (money and desired narrative) line up with the “results” of this survey.
No, this is not true by any metric I’ve ever seen. On average, I think something like 65% of Americans live in houses vs Apts/condos.
Other studies have shown that 1 in 8 Americans are living in an apt, though I’m not sure where condo dwellers come in.
Filling your garage with junk is meaningless, you can still run a cord to the driveway.
Sure, you can run that cord out and then that night comes where the neighborhood kid hooks up their karaoke machine.
Haha. Those damn karaoke hooligans are always causing a ruckus.
Tell me about it! There’s only so many times you can hear “Tubthumping” by Chumbawamba before something snaps.
I don’t have any direct experience with McKinsey & Co but I do with their competitor (which rhymes with Shmalvarez & Shmarsal) and their “optimizations” have made my professional life a LIVING HELL for the past 2 years. Luckily the board finally said enough with their bullshit and now we’re doing all we can to reverse every one of their “suggestions” before it’s too late.
I know they’re two different companies but I hold them both in the same light. Neither actually produces anything of substance and neither are held accountable for what they do produce. We’re not going to get any refunds for what we paid them for their demonstrably bad advice.
It’s the reputation of companies like these that make me roll my eyes any time anyone utters the word “Consulting” around me. It’s turned into an absurd field which allows business bros to milk the remaining cash from struggling companies while providing nothing of value. Companies like McKinsey provide as much if not value to this world than Instagram and TikTok influencers
I’ve been at companies that worked with both McKinsey and that other AMazing firm that you dealt with. Both were absolutely horrible and a net negative impact in my opinion. I lost count of the number of times someone in the company had an idea, the consulting firm heard about it and next thing you know it’s on a slide to the board as “the firm’s” idea. And those were the only good ideas they ever brought to the board, any of their own ideas were almost 100% garbage. One company I was at had the AMazing firm on site almost full time for 5 years, paying absurd amounts per month while also laying people off.
The best example I can give of how inept these firms are in my experience: One of them did an “analysis” of like how many positions and hours per day etc. we had and concluded that we were “overspending” on people costs by around 5-6% and suggested huge investments in system measures to ensure people were only paid for actual hours worked.
The analysis made its way to the internal team at the company and one of the most junior guys in the finance group(His annual salary was probably the same as what they were paying per 2-3 weeks per consultant) looked at it for 30 seconds and was like “uh guys, you forgot to factor in we have paid vacation and sick time, that’s about 5-6% alone….”
It seems the only suggestions they have are some form or other of staff reductions. No unique ideas on how to increase revenue or venture into untapped markets, nope, just reduce staff until you’re profitable again. GENIUS!!!
Pretty much!
“Oh you want to increase your profits? Have you considered just making more revenue? Or how about spending less on expenses?”
Or sometimes they just re-arrange things and call it an improvement. The most hilarious example was at one company first they were like “Hey instead of dividing your company structure into 6 regions, let’s consolidate it to 4 big regions with 10 sub-regions within them!”
Then the same firm, but different specific team members, came back like 2-3 years later with “What’s the point of having regions AND sub-regions? We think things would be smoother if you got rid of a layer… but 4 regions isn’t quite granular enough so we should break it up a little to oh, I don’t know, maybe 6 regions?”
I don’t have any direct experience with McKinsey & Co but I do with their competitor (which rhymes with Shmalvarez & Shmarsal) and their “optimizations” have made my professional life a LIVING HELL for the past 2 years. Luckily the board finally said enough with their bullshit and now we’re doing all we can to reverse every one of their “suggestions” before it’s too late.
I know they’re two different companies but I hold them both in the same light. Neither actually produces anything of substance and neither are held accountable for what they do produce. We’re not going to get any refunds for what we paid them for their demonstrably bad advice.
It’s the reputation of companies like these that make me roll my eyes any time anyone utters the word “Consulting” around me. It’s turned into an absurd field which allows business bros to milk the remaining cash from struggling companies while providing nothing of value. Companies like McKinsey provide as much if not value to this world than Instagram and TikTok influencers
I’ve been at companies that worked with both McKinsey and that other AMazing firm that you dealt with. Both were absolutely horrible and a net negative impact in my opinion. I lost count of the number of times someone in the company had an idea, the consulting firm heard about it and next thing you know it’s on a slide to the board as “the firm’s” idea. And those were the only good ideas they ever brought to the board, any of their own ideas were almost 100% garbage. One company I was at had the AMazing firm on site almost full time for 5 years, paying absurd amounts per month while also laying people off.
The best example I can give of how inept these firms are in my experience: One of them did an “analysis” of like how many positions and hours per day etc. we had and concluded that we were “overspending” on people costs by around 5-6% and suggested huge investments in system measures to ensure people were only paid for actual hours worked.
The analysis made its way to the internal team at the company and one of the most junior guys in the finance group(His annual salary was probably the same as what they were paying per 2-3 weeks per consultant) looked at it for 30 seconds and was like “uh guys, you forgot to factor in we have paid vacation and sick time, that’s about 5-6% alone….”
It seems the only suggestions they have are some form or other of staff reductions. No unique ideas on how to increase revenue or venture into untapped markets, nope, just reduce staff until you’re profitable again. GENIUS!!!
Pretty much!
“Oh you want to increase your profits? Have you considered just making more revenue? Or how about spending less on expenses?”
Or sometimes they just re-arrange things and call it an improvement. The most hilarious example was at one company first they were like “Hey instead of dividing your company structure into 6 regions, let’s consolidate it to 4 big regions with 10 sub-regions within them!”
Then the same firm, but different specific team members, came back like 2-3 years later with “What’s the point of having regions AND sub-regions? We think things would be smoother if you got rid of a layer… but 4 regions isn’t quite granular enough so we should break it up a little to oh, I don’t know, maybe 6 regions?”
I think the site is better when you try to editorialize less on politics.
That’s a fair position. Counterpoint: if Matt/DT hadn’t editorialized you can bet the comments would have brought it up. I’m OK with a writer/outlet taking a standpoint on a topic.
I maybe laid it on a little thick, I think the point is made I may just link and be done with it next time.
I don’t know…
I appreciate knowing where you stand. I also know a lot of people will make judgements on your intelligence based on how much they agree/disagree with you on a single subject.
I like knowing where you are on different subjects so I can consider the different angles of the story and the points being made to come up with an informed decision.
But I get that’s a tough needle to thread for all of you.
Also, it’s interesting to read the differing opinions from you and David in the editorial comments. As someone who works in corporate America where you always have to present a consistent message and all that it’s fun to see everyone is allowed to be individuals.
Although I wish the editorial comments would be in the comments where we can all interact on it instead of interrupting the article.
Politics influence our car experience. Example A: Tesla using ZEV credits to fund making desirable at the time EV’s. Example B: Kei trucks getting banned.
I think there’s a balance to be had. To say nothing is to grant all parties equal footing in a debate or argument. Editorializing, for better and for worse, brings nuance to that: why might McKinsey publish results of a survey to this effect? Are they reputable, and do they have a clear political bias or other affiliations that would sway their conclusion to one end or another? To leave out context is to grant an unduly fair platform to participants operating in bad faith.
Absent the context given by editorializing, naked statistics are subject to as much speculation and perversion as the reader sees fit. E.g., because 46% of EV drivers are looking at getting a gas car next car, does that mean 54% (aka more than half, the majority, etc) are happy with their EV? We don’t know, but editorializing from a trusted source, or failing that at least a known source, fills in the intermediate shades of grey that “46% of some people say this” fail to illustrate.
Plus, if you keep your wits about you, you can start to get a feeling of who you agree with and who you don’t. I tend not to agree with DT on lots of things; he’s so optimistic that he tends to lose sight of reality, IMO. I still respect and appreciate his perspective, and keep a pile or two of salt at hand when he, for instance, proposes that the Fisker Ocean isn’t that bad.
I think the site is better when you try to editorialize less on politics.
That’s a fair position. Counterpoint: if Matt/DT hadn’t editorialized you can bet the comments would have brought it up. I’m OK with a writer/outlet taking a standpoint on a topic.
I maybe laid it on a little thick, I think the point is made I may just link and be done with it next time.
I don’t know…
I appreciate knowing where you stand. I also know a lot of people will make judgements on your intelligence based on how much they agree/disagree with you on a single subject.
I like knowing where you are on different subjects so I can consider the different angles of the story and the points being made to come up with an informed decision.
But I get that’s a tough needle to thread for all of you.
Also, it’s interesting to read the differing opinions from you and David in the editorial comments. As someone who works in corporate America where you always have to present a consistent message and all that it’s fun to see everyone is allowed to be individuals.
Although I wish the editorial comments would be in the comments where we can all interact on it instead of interrupting the article.
Politics influence our car experience. Example A: Tesla using ZEV credits to fund making desirable at the time EV’s. Example B: Kei trucks getting banned.
I think there’s a balance to be had. To say nothing is to grant all parties equal footing in a debate or argument. Editorializing, for better and for worse, brings nuance to that: why might McKinsey publish results of a survey to this effect? Are they reputable, and do they have a clear political bias or other affiliations that would sway their conclusion to one end or another? To leave out context is to grant an unduly fair platform to participants operating in bad faith.
Absent the context given by editorializing, naked statistics are subject to as much speculation and perversion as the reader sees fit. E.g., because 46% of EV drivers are looking at getting a gas car next car, does that mean 54% (aka more than half, the majority, etc) are happy with their EV? We don’t know, but editorializing from a trusted source, or failing that at least a known source, fills in the intermediate shades of grey that “46% of some people say this” fail to illustrate.
Plus, if you keep your wits about you, you can start to get a feeling of who you agree with and who you don’t. I tend not to agree with DT on lots of things; he’s so optimistic that he tends to lose sight of reality, IMO. I still respect and appreciate his perspective, and keep a pile or two of salt at hand when he, for instance, proposes that the Fisker Ocean isn’t that bad.
That study tracks with what acquaintances who drive EVs have told me. They like their cars, just not the charging hassle. I wonder if any new home and apartment builders have adopted the practice of installing chargers in all of their projects, or at least as an option? If this became routine, that could go quite a way to helping alleviate charger envy in the disadvantaged. I do think retrofit installation of chargers in older homes, rentals, and apartment buildings is going to become a thing at some point.
I will keep saying this over and over again, Chin restaurants need to put in a few charging stations in their parking lots. (It could’ve saved Red Lobster.)
Red Lobster had plenty of customers. Private Equity killed them, specifically Golden Gate Capital. They were bought by a private equity firm that loaded them down with debt to finance the deal and sold their physical locations for $1.5 billion and then then had the restaurants lease them back at inflated costs, triple net leases adding massively to their operating costs.
And forced them to buy from their seafood supplier as sole seafood provider at higher cost.
Vulture Capitalism
I will add this was what I have been saying about malls. You put lots of charging in the parking lots. Cover them with solar panels and add some battery storage. Since Sears closed make that a grocery store, have a nice food court and then the regular stores that can fill in along with the requisite movie theater and maybe a gym.
Malls, at least around here, are hurting.
They may be the next movie theaters in our neck of the woods.
Strip malls are fine, but very few people want to trek to the actual few malls when you can have things shipped to your house and return them if necessary.
I do feel bad for teens, hanging out in the malls was a good time back in the day.
This is being done in France.
That study tracks with what acquaintances who drive EVs have told me. They like their cars, just not the charging hassle. I wonder if any new home and apartment builders have adopted the practice of installing chargers in all of their projects, or at least as an option? If this became routine, that could go quite a way to helping alleviate charger envy in the disadvantaged. I do think retrofit installation of chargers in older homes, rentals, and apartment buildings is going to become a thing at some point.
I will keep saying this over and over again, Chin restaurants need to put in a few charging stations in their parking lots. (It could’ve saved Red Lobster.)
Red Lobster had plenty of customers. Private Equity killed them, specifically Golden Gate Capital. They were bought by a private equity firm that loaded them down with debt to finance the deal and sold their physical locations for $1.5 billion and then then had the restaurants lease them back at inflated costs, triple net leases adding massively to their operating costs.
And forced them to buy from their seafood supplier as sole seafood provider at higher cost.
Vulture Capitalism
I will add this was what I have been saying about malls. You put lots of charging in the parking lots. Cover them with solar panels and add some battery storage. Since Sears closed make that a grocery store, have a nice food court and then the regular stores that can fill in along with the requisite movie theater and maybe a gym.
Malls, at least around here, are hurting.
They may be the next movie theaters in our neck of the woods.
Strip malls are fine, but very few people want to trek to the actual few malls when you can have things shipped to your house and return them if necessary.
I do feel bad for teens, hanging out in the malls was a good time back in the day.
This is being done in France.
I know it’s easy to dump on EA, but in the 3 months I’ve owned my Ioniq 6, I’ve yet to have a bad experience with them.
Most charging is done at home anyway. The OEMs need to clean this up for sure, but I think a lot of narrative is flying around that isn’t really rooted in reality.
lol at McKinsey “helping struggling organizations”
The annual McKinsey meeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY
Thanks for the link.
They have been adding new equipment that is much more reliable. The previous generation of stuff was not great and has added to their reliability. I have seen the equipment changed and then working without issue. Many posts I see of David having trouble is on old equipment which is part of the overall issue with charging still.
I know it’s easy to dump on EA, but in the 3 months I’ve owned my Ioniq 6, I’ve yet to have a bad experience with them.
Most charging is done at home anyway. The OEMs need to clean this up for sure, but I think a lot of narrative is flying around that isn’t really rooted in reality.
lol at McKinsey “helping struggling organizations”
The annual McKinsey meeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY
Thanks for the link.
They have been adding new equipment that is much more reliable. The previous generation of stuff was not great and has added to their reliability. I have seen the equipment changed and then working without issue. Many posts I see of David having trouble is on old equipment which is part of the overall issue with charging still.
As soon as I saw “thoughts about McKinsey” linked, I knew it was going to be the Last Week Tonight story. Last season they did a story on organ donation and my wife tensed up. She works for one of the organ and tissue banks briefly mentioned in the story, but the focus was less on them and more the oversight and how the waiting lists worked.
As soon as I saw “thoughts about McKinsey” linked, I knew it was going to be the Last Week Tonight story. Last season they did a story on organ donation and my wife tensed up. She works for one of the organ and tissue banks briefly mentioned in the story, but the focus was less on them and more the oversight and how the waiting lists worked.