I always have my eyes open for new innovations in the ultra-cheap EV space, especially the Chinese ultra-cheap EV space, because, as you know, I’m a proud Changli owner. We have big things coming for the Changli, by the way, so stay tuned. Those open eyes of mine happened to alight on a fascinating little video, one that shows an electric enclosed auto-rickshaw type of vehicle – something very similar to my Changli, but with three wheels instead of four (but four doors!) and this one is even more exciting because it has something on its roof that looks like a red, spinning version of one of those funny little paper hats people put on the end of turkey legs. What’s going on here, exactly?
It seems that spinning thing is a sort of wind turbine, similar to ones you can order on, of course, Alibaba. So, is this little EV powered by wind?
https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1654323245494202368?s=20
The answer is, I’m afraid, no. There’s really no way for an EV, even a small one like this, to be effectively powered by a wind turbine mounted on the roof. The reason is that while sure it’ll spin while the car is in motion, the amount of extra drag it adds counteracts any additional electricity it manages to generate. Plus, even if wind is blowing on the turbine, there’s always losses to friction there to remind you that nothing is free. Perhaps if you had a light, deployable turbine that could only rise when the car was decelerating or stopped, that may help, but it’s a lot easier and more efficient to use the wheels’ motion to recharge the battery under braking.
Of course, stationary wind turbines, set high enough in the air to really capture substantial wind energy can absolutely generate electricity that can then be stored in an EV’s batteries, so there’s no reason why you can’t power an EV with wind, you just need to do it remotely, not mounted on the car itself.
The fundamental concept, though, is so wildly appealing that even if it violates the laws of physics, it’s just too compelling to ignore. I think that’s why people keep trying this concept, which lures in hopeful engineers like a siren, leading to things like this, a Colombian EV that claims to get power from a pair of front-mounted wind generators:
I’d be very skeptical to hear this actually works; they only claim 10% power regeneration from it, and perhaps if the intakes could be closed off when accelerating or coasting, then maybe it could do a little something to generate power, but not more than just using regenerative braking. The Eolo Motors website no longer seems to make any mention of this wind-turbine-powered car, so I guess they realized there’s no money to be made flaunting the laws of physics, either.
Now, there’s one sort-of example I can think of that seems like it bends the laws of physics of a wind-turbine-powered vehicle, where a turbine-powered three-wheeled vehicle is able to drive faster than the wind, as it is being directly pushed by the wind. Wind-powered vehicles, like sailboats, when they’re being pushed from directly behind, can move at only the same speed as the wind pushing them. This odd, all-mechanical, no electric motor or batteries-powered contraption, does manage to go faster than the wind.
The reasons aren’t obvious, but luckily, there are videos that explain it all:
The video is pretty fascinating; the propeller acts like a fan, not a turbine, as it is driven by gears connected to the wheels, and actually produces thrust to the rear by pushing wind behind it. The wheels actually turn the fan, which then provides more thrust. It’s confusing to think about, but I’m going to defer to the video to explain it, because it’ll do that better than I can. Also, a physics professor already had to pay this dude $10,000 for losing a bet about this thing!
This, of course, is a very different sort of setup than what is seen on that little EV in China, which had a turbine designed to spin in the wind to make electricity to feed the batteries of that EV. Despite this exciting and strange other three-wheeled marvel, that still can’t make that little Chinese EV work.
If it’s parked in a windy area or tipped into a fast-moving river, though, then the motion of the turbine should make some electricity, at least. And, it does look pretty fun.
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BMW is getting crazy with its front grill these days!
That weirdo downwind gadget again! I like to think my strength is putting complex things in simple form but this one has me struggling.Mostly because several things are happening at once.
You could say it’s simply applying cross-wind dynamics to work downwind, but the whole gearing thing trips people up.
Or you could say it’s a clever way of extracting more energy from the wind (that is,it leaves the air in it’s wake moving slower than a sail would) but that doesnt really explain it clearly
I’m incredibly happy to see Naomi Wu pop up on Autopian. We need this crossover episode.
In theory the turbine could generate surplus energy when the car is stationary, in windy weather. But I still doubt it’s worth the extra drag.
Can we please have a truly objective test as to how much Hello Kitty stickers increase speed and range? I feel it is a responsibility of any respectable media outlet to to quantify this.
Also, need to know, do racing stripes actually help you win the race?
No, racing stripes will not help you win the race, but flames will make you go faster. Michael Waltrip told me so.
Also red paint? As they say in my least favorite fictional universe, “da red ones go fasta!”
Well sailboats can be propelled faster than the wind. Ice boats can also be propelled faster than the wind, i am pretty sure a car could to. But not this one.
The issue is, directly downwind. You can easily sail faster when going perpendicular, but to go faster directly downwind requires some very tricky engineering and unintuitive physics.
I never did understand the science. That is how i ended up a marketing major.
Raft with a fan. Although… Just like the fan car in the Physics Debate video, which merely has two rotating sails attached to gears instead of fixed sails like a sail cart, the principal is the same. Actually implementing it is extremely difficult.
Maybe it’s not “wind powered”, but instead it’s “wind powered”. As in, you wind up that thingy on top of the car and it produces the power to drive the wheels.
Only in Colombia would they have nostrils that big and rival BMW for amount of cocaine storage.
Man, picking on the sailboats again. That Blackbird from Vertasium is cool and all but regular old Class 3 land yachts or sail carts (http://breanlandyachtclub.weebly.com/yacht-classes.html) can go faster than the wind as well on a broad reach.
Yes, when the wind is perpendicular. They can’t do it directly downwind.
The prop allows the blades to achieve the angles a sailboat achieves when it’s on tack. That’s my semi-educated guess.
The prop provides reverse thrust, it’s a fan pointing backwards.
Video explains it pretty well imo.
The part I have a problem with in that explanation is what powers the wheels to drive the car forward enough to provide enough force when the car is moving faster than the wind speed? The wind is no longer adding force, in fact by pushing through the air it’s creating more drag. Just because you can feel air being moved doesn’t mean it’s the wind propelling it. For instance with propellers it’s pressure differential that causes things to move (there’s lower pressure on the side you’re moving towards, higher on the back side.) So the only thing I can think of that would provide enough force to move the vehicle faster than wind speed would be something similar to what allows boats (water and ice) to travel faster than wind speed, and that’s the pressure differential on the sail. The propeller is acting as 2 sails (it even shows this in his model with the 2 boats on tack along the cylinder.)
Net effect – the wind pushed the car fast enough to get the propeller spinning, and once it does it takes over as the primary force and moves the car faster than the wind speed.
Yeah, there’s lots of ways to look at it, but one way is: Because the the prop is powered by the wheels touching the ground, it can extract energy from the difference in speed between the wind and the ground itself, instead of only extracting energy from the difference between the speed of the wind and the speed of the vehicle. That source of energy remains constant even when the vehicle speeds up, unlike a traditional sail that gets weaker as the vehicle moves faster. This extra energy source allows it to create a larger pressure differential between its front and rear surfaces than a traditional sail can (in a direct downwind situation), and thus more speed.
I remember being a kid and thinking that a diesel train with turbines on the cars could use that energy to power the amenities inside. Sure, it was possible, but not an efficient way to do it. I almost wonder if this is something akin to that; the car charges as normal, but the turbine provides power to an accessory battery for things in the cabin. Still far less efficient than taking the power directly from the main battery, but it feels like it could work, so some people are going to try it.
Of course, there several comments on that video from people who think it could work, so maybe the driver thinks that too.
If it was the turbined trains i saw those were jet engines with turbines for hi speed rail they worked. Tracks at the time couldnt handle it
Man, you don’t even get the fundamental science here. Once the car gets started, the moving air turns the turbine generating electricity, that power feeds into the Fuel Shark, then from there it actually charges the battery. It’s basically too simple for smart people to understand!
HEY! Nobody said anything about there being a Fuel Shark in that Changli!
Now it all makes perfect sense!
But it’s so much easier to just find a car with multiple lighter ports and use 3-4 Fuel Sharks. If they’d come out with a USB version, you could just take one USB port and a splitter, but then you’d start actually creating fuel in gas vehicles, and they can’t allow that.
Whoever they are.
Your science is unimpeachable.
Combine that with a Brown’s Gas apparatus and you’re actually making MORE energy than you’re using. It’s gold, Jerry, gold!
Exactly then sell the extra energy back to the electric company just like solar.
Too simple for smart people? Thank goodness we have you here to explain! Mic drop burn
You joke, but the 5G version actually works!
I don’t speak Spanish, can someone tell me more about the new BMW in the video?
The wind turbines are connected to some gears that drive a magnetic generator that charges an auxiliary battery. I’m not clear if the battery provides locomotive power or just runs the car’s electronics though.
After watching it again I’m pretty sure the auxiliary battery is only for the electronics and is the lead acid battery under the hood. He mentions 48 Li-Ion batteries that propel the car and can charge in 10 hours using 110v or 5 hours using 220v.
Basically it’s a range extender to help you get your BMW from one dealer service bay to another without having to stop to charge. Just don’t forget to sign up for the subscription.
I remember a guy pitching me a perpetual motion scheme that was essentially a savonius wind turbine that generated electricity and drove a gearbox. He needed money and some engineering ‘help’ I tried to explain friction and the like but he wasn’t too open to reason
A colleague of mine was fond of saying that there are only two immutable laws in the universe: the law of supply and demand and the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. With all the crazy ideas out there, I at least take comfort in the fact that US Patent law specifically excludes patenting anything that claims to violate the 2nd Law.
When perpetual motion machines are outlawed, only something, something, Fuel Shark!
No such thing as a perpetual motion machine? Nonsense you just havent seen me on the dance floor. Lol actual i am a lousy dancer.