What in the hell are you thinking, BMW vehicle development Chief Technical Officer, Frank Weber? Seriously, casting shade on the BMW i3 — the most beloved and technologically advanced mass-market EV your company has ever built? This is not smart, and I won’t stand for it.
A new report from Automobilewoche, sister site of Automotive News Europe, has BMW “Member of the Board of Management of BMW AG, Development” Frank Weber responding to questions about BMW’s hotely-anticipated “Neue Klasse” platform set to underpin a number of new vehicles, including an entry-level one that will act as the successor to the beloved BMW i3. Apparently in response to questions about how the new i3 will compare to the old, Weber had this to say, per Automotive News Europe:
OK hold the phone. “In the eyes of others the i3 was not a real BMW. A bit of an outsider in the classroom”?!
Look, I’m not saying that Weber is technically wrong. I mean, read contemporary reviews of the i3 when it launched for the 2014 model year (it left the U.S. after 2021), and you’ll see quotes like this one from British car magazine EVO:
However, in spite of the rear-drive layout there’s no pretending that the i3 is as engaging to drive as most of BMW’s cars. That doesn’t mean there’s no fun to be had, especially as the weight is distinctly biased towards the rear of the car, but the DSC stability control system is keen to not let things get out of hand. Those thin tyres are designed more with low rolling resistance in mind than lateral grip as well so it’s all too easy to overcome their hold on the road – especially in the wet
[…]
The electric power steering is devoid of feel, but it’s pleasingly direct and the i3 has a fantastic turning circle, while the brakes (ventilated discs all-round) feel over-engineered for the car…
[…]
…ride comfort isn’t great. The electric B-Class or Golf annihilate the BMW in that regard and while the i3 feels stable and comfortable at motorway speeds, around town the large wheels seem to pick up every little imperfection in the surface underneath.
So yes, in the areas of ride and handling — two metrics that are extremely important to a dynamics-focused brand like BMW — the i3 was never amazing. So yes, you can consider it an outsider.
But that quote above about it being “not a real BMW” and then saying BMW won’t repeat the old i3, as if the i3 were somehow a bad product, is odd to me. The i3 is one of the coolest cars BMW has ever made. Ever.
When world-renowned automotive manufacturing expert Sandy Munro tore the i3 down about eight years ago, he referred to the i3 as “The Model T of our time.” He said “From an engineering standpoint, everything was jaw-dropping,” and that the vehicle represents “a watershed [moment],” and not just for cars, but also for aircraft and trains, specially because of the way BMW built the car out of Carbon-Fiber Reinforced Polymer.
It’s an unbelievably advanced vehicle, and would be even for 2023 in some ways, and BMW should be proud to have built it. This was an example of the company showing off its engineering prowess, so why is a BMW executive even saying that folks think it’s “not a real BMW”? What’s more “BMW” than excellent, advanced engineering?
I don’t get it.
[Editor’s Note: I agree 100% with David here. Frank seems to have forgotten about some really important BMWs that kept the company going when it would have died a grim, post-war death otherwise. Think about the Isetta, the 600 and 700 BMWs; those were real BMWs! They belong in the classroom as much as any M3 does. These were novel, innovative cars!
If you work for BMW and think of these cars, and their spiritual successors like the i3, as “outsiders in the classroom,” then I think you need to get sent to the office. – JT]
It’s a marketing thing, not a technical one. Rember BMW makes most of their money selling brand identity to idiots, they couldn’t give a shit about specs or technical prowess.
When I drive my 1976 BMW 2002 to pick up groceries, the young delivery-persons often remark, “Wow, that is a BMW.” It is surprising to them that BMW once made simple utilitarian machines.
The second thing they say is that they really like it.
If they are going to officially categorise BMWs as “real” and “not real” it’s probably much quicker to list the ones that are “real”. A few M5s, an M3, a couple of CSLs and a 635CSi.
What about the M1 (the mid-engined one, and possibly the only car to have the one true engine (a straight six) in the one true location (the middle)), Z1 (the best doors ever!), i8 (all the drama of a supercar but only the performance you actually need), Z4 coupe (without Toyota badges) or all of the sodding motorbikes that don’t fit in to the box that pops up when you think BMW?
I love a straight six engined saloon (sedan) as much as the next dynamic thrusting executive, but I also love their weird stuff, it makes the whole company seem more fun.
That’s why I’m going to be replacing my i3 with a Volvo EX30. Nothing BMW is currently selling or is about to sell is remotely like the i3. Meanwhile the Volvo is like an upgraded version of the i3 but mostly the same size
I was about to say: HAS THIS MAN NEVER HEARD OF THE ISETTA?!?!!! A car doesn’t have to be an E30 to be important to BMW’s timeline.
Not that I expect anyone at BMW to know what they’re doing anymore. Is the cocaine tainted in Munich nowadays?
Judging by most of the current cars that are inspired by naked mole rats, yes, the cocaine has indeed been tainted in all the worst ways!
Best view of a modern BMW is sitting inside one… that way you don’t have to look at the Angry beaver toothed ‘face’
Yep. Gosh, they’re still pretty nice inside.
The i3 was the only BMW I seriously considered getting. The thing that killed it for me was the two different tire sizes front and rear, if it had one size all around I would have bought one.
Why was that the deciding factor for you?
I’m currently going through the grief of trying to find a matching set of tyres for my stupid staggered width and diameters on my stupid car. It’s annoying, but not not-ever-buying-a-car-like-this-again annoying.
I put full size spare tires in my car even if they don’t originally come with one, and I almost always go with the same wheel as the other wheel. That way I can drive on that spare for as long as I need, which is especially useful if you’re far from a tire place and or you don’t have the time to do the slow speeds required on a space saving donut.
With 2 different sizes of tires I’d need 2 different full size spares which really isn’t practical and effectively it’s the equivalent weight of carrying 2 full size spares while having only one usable unless you’re unluckily lucky enough to blow out one tire in the front and one tire in the back, but it could easily have been 2 tires in the front or two tires in the back as well. I don’t mind running pizza cutter tires front and rear, I just want them to be the same size so I can take a full size spare with me.
I do love a full size spare. I tend to have Jeep Wranglers which do have a full size spare. I also make it a point to rotate it through with the others.
The base trim BEV was available with non-staggered wheels.
If you opted for the higher trims or the REx, you got staggered wheels.
Also, the winter wheel set was non-staggered.
That’s too bad, when I was talking with a BMW dealership they said they were all like that and I’m pretty sure BMW’s website didn’t provide that info either.
Yeah, it’s only one one trim, optioned a certain way (the base, silver, pizza-cutters), and no REx.
But the dealer may have just not known that level of detail (unsurprising) or they wanted to push you toward one they had in stock (also wouldn’t be surprising).
But hey, now you know in case you ever want to track down a used one someday that it’s technically possible to get them with matching wheel widths.
The non-staggered option MAY have gone away in later years, also, I don’t remember that detail. Sorta like how the i3 *originally* had some wheels that were specific to each CORNER. Not only were they staggered front/back, they were also different from side to side because of the “rotation” of the wheel design. After ~2014, though, they decided that was too much trouble, so the wheels spun one way on one side and the other way on the other side. The 2014’s also had body-color side mirror caps and a wrist pad for the iDrive knob, but all those things went away after MY2014 or so.
OK, enough i3 trivia for now! haha
Honestly if I’m buying a BEV I’m buying a new one due to the battery degradation issue. I think I was looking at later model year i3s as the they had decent all electric range, possibly at the range extended models as well.
Yeah, I love the Isetta!
-Steve Urkel
Love the i3 for all the reasons. But I also follow what Weber means here. It’s really not “on brand” for BMW. It simply didn’t fit the mold of what the general public thinks a BMW should be.
And worse, those are the only tires available because they chose to use stupid sizes for their tires and a staggered setup too 🙁
I test drive an i3 when they came out. I was seriously impressed with the performance, to 40mph it felt way faster than the e39 M5 I was daily driving at the time. Between 40 and 60 one could feel it loosing steam compared to the M5 but it was still strong. The handling felt excellent. It was a fun nimble little car.
My only complaint was the extremely aggressive regen when taking your foot off the throttle. The sensation was so weird that in the 10 minute drive I got an aggressive case of vertigo that took two weeks to recover from. I do have motion sensitivity, like if I spend time on a boat I’ll sway for a week, but this was a whole different level and was quite unpleasant.
I’d driven other electric cars and had no issues, it’s just they had way too much Regen programed in.
But it doesn’t have large kidney shaped grills. A BMWist has to have the grill so other drivers know he is better than they are. Otherwise why overpay for a car?
Given how hideous most current BMWs are, the i3 is a tonic.
But the 228i Gran Coupe is a real BMW’s, Mr. Weber? How about the X2 M35i?
I mean, you want a real atrocity? Don’t forget the 2-series Active Tourer!
The BMW MPV
For 2014-2018, you could even get a 1.4L diesel! 94HP! The ultimate driving machine. I love how it’s categorized not as an MPV, but an Executive MPV. What the F is an, “Executive MPV?” An MPV for middle managers?
Any of the front-wheel-drive “BMWs” are abominations that don’t fit the brand. BMW needs to refer back to its own rabbit ad.
My Mini Cooper is going to hunt you down and let out a big gassy fart in your general direction!
That’s a Mini, though. It’s fine.
So FWD BMWs are fine as long as they are branded as a Mini?
But Mini parts-bin sharing with the “cheap” Bimmers helps keep part prices down. A bit. Or at least increases part availability somewhat.
And if you’ve ever owned a Mini, then you know keeping parts available and prices down is important!
Heh, I didn’t, but I heard plenty of stories from Patrick’s two.
Mini has always been known for FWD. Small, light, enjoyable FWD. I wish they’d go back to that light and small part, but yeah.
BMW used to make purer driver’s cars, which is…not FWD transcending/managing its understeer.
Fortunately, there’s still plenty of parts that can be shared beyond where the drive wheels sit.
The OG I3 is something I think people will always remember, and is a fun, playful design from BMW to introduce a new tech and experience. It was a good car for a eccentric older guy, or the fun loving 20-30 year old. Maybe even for your teenager if you wanted to keep your BMW salesman employed but didn’t want to spoil your kid “too much”. I think its original enough in its design to give it the iconic label, it wasn’t anything spectacular, but it was special looking and not many will survive long term. I think they will be worth a pretty penny some day, David should keep his in good repair.
That said, the new direction looks fantastic, and is something I think a lot more people will be interested in. Partly the timing is better, but also the styling is more “Accepted”
But the 318ti still gets to be considered a BMW? If we’re casting cars out of the BMW history book, start there. Then I got about six or seven to on my hit list before even thinking about the nerd3.
This is such a sad thing to heard, I’ve always like the 318ti, assuming you are referencing the e36 generation and not the absolutely horrendous front end of the e46 compact.
That said, if we are throwing past BMW designs under the bus, can we erase the e60 5 series from history. Those headlights are dreadful and did more to ruin modern car design than any other feature of the Bangle era.
I will admit to being into 90s BMWs with currently owning two e36s, previously owned and e39 and my parents just purchased their third e38.
Iconic?
Dude. No.
at least there’s no bias here.
but for real the i3 is absolutely awesome, and I wish they’d have continued this styling ethos if what we get now is the other option.
Reading his comments charitably, I think by “not a real BMW”, he meant “wasn’t seen as a real BMW” by the general public. That is undeniably true. The replacement he’s talking about will certainly not be an enthusiast-focused car, and thus what normies think matters. Car buyers (especially American car buyers) are very conscious of looking upscale when they’ve paid for upscale. And the brand behind it must be thought of as upscale. This tendency is so ingrained that Buick had to run those famous “that’s not a Buick” ads and hit people over the head with it. Still didn’t work – Buicks are still overwhelmingly bought by old people. The i3, engineering marvel that it was, did not scream “wow nice BMW” and thus normies weren’t interested.
Honestly, the i3 should probably have been sold as a Mini.
It’s much more in keeping with that brand’s ethos, and would have avoided the “not a BMW” issue cleanly.
Exactly. The only BMW-ness about the i3 was the price.
It doesn’t look, feel, or drive like a BMW. That doesn’t make it a bad car, it’s just not what people think of as a BMW. Like a Cadillac Cimarron wasn’t a Cadillac (and it was a PILE), a Cygnet isn’t an AM, and an Arteon or Phaeton aren’t VWs.
The i3 doesn’t look, feel, or drive like a MINI, either, though.
It wouldn’t take much to make it look like a Mini. It’s already the right basic dimensions, unlike most of the modern “Minis”.
Not sure what you mean. It’s substantially bigger than every generation of 2-door MINI Hardtop made by BMW.
Side note about the failure of Buicks advertising campaign. They never did a good job of selling people why they should look at Buick, those commercials reeked of “Please, just consider even looking at a Buick” energy and that just isn’t appealing way to sell to people.
The Buick ads screamed of desperation, which is the last thing you want to be selling. It is inconceivable that no one in the marketing department or the ad agency flagged that campaign.
“Your Buick Parks Itself!?!…
That Is SOO YOU!!!”
That ad ranks up there as one of the worst auto ads in history, perhaps even higher than “The Caddillac that Zigs”
Before getting to the bottom of your comment, the first brand that came to mind was Buick, then sure enough you referenced Buick.
You couldn’t be more right, and it’s mega challenging to change the ethos of a brand to the consumer. I think Toyota right now is doing a great job attempting to fix their brand image problem. I’m actually of the opinion that the new Prius is the best looking vehicle on sale today and is definitely the freshest design on the market.
The “That’s not a Buick” campaign didn’t work back when it was the “Not your Father’s Oldmobile” campaign either.
“This tendency is so ingrained that Buick had to run those famous “that’s not a Buick” ads and hit people over the head with it. Still didn’t work – Buicks are still overwhelmingly bought by old people. ”
GM specifically used AARP grandpa and grandma as their Buick “target customer” for Easily +30 years, which they also did with Oldsmobile
And with Caddillac. I’d say from at least 1980 – 2010, with Extrememly few exceptions (Grand National being a standout).
So… how/why should anyone (general pleebs, us car geeks or GM staff) be surprised GM has struggled so mightily with trying to change the image of the Buick!?! (and Caddillac… sadly Oldsmobile of course didn’t make it)
LOL! They say that, and then they make stuff like the XM!
I keep forgetting that they named something called the XM and get prepared to defend the honor of the finest early ’90s Citroen.
Remember when listening to this guy the first 2 letters in the company name are BM.
I saw one in white the other day and thought that it looked even worse in person. I had thought the face of the new 7 series was their worst design until I saw the XM.
David, you are a nerd. The i3 is a nerdy car. And a glorious one at that. Unfortunately, BMW is no longer interested in nerds. And I’m sure they’d rather scrub from memory what most of their customers likely considered “a dorky little electric hatchback”. Which is a shame, but I blame self-serious consumers more than I blame BMW.
For the third time today I’m typing the word “aspire”. *Blech* BMW sells cars to finance/tech bros, SUVs to upper crust families, etc. These people do not aspire to the BMW i3, and without their branding illusion, what is modern BMW anyway?
Strong points.
My wife took her friend for a ride in my 2005 M3, and all she could say was how “rough” the ride was, “for a BMW” … having no clue what she was in. For her, BMW was a “prestige” brand, and thus should be luxury.
I’ve had similar experiences taking people for rides in my e36 M3 and the e39 M5 I used to daily. People are surprised when the interior of the e36 looks like a 90s economy car.
I’d agree the i3 is a nerdy car, but in many ways, a lot of the BMW electrified cars are nerdy too. It’s a weird convergence of nerd and sport. I don’t think I would have bought a 330e if the i3 hadn’t existed, I knew that the i3 was a well engineered car and that the electric drivetrain design was solid. I remember seeing some program about the i3 and how it was assembled, and just being amazed at the tech, design, and manufacturing process of that car. It impressed me as an engineering nerd. When it was time to replace my 1st Gen Volt (also a nerdy car), I was looking for an i3 and found the 330e would work well for our use case, even with it’s 20ish mile electric range. It’s not quite as sporty and light as the 330i, but the 330e does so much well, just like the 3 series in general. It’s a great balance of fun to drive, great tech, and super efficient. Since I’m an engineer that enjoys fun cars, it works well. The wife, who is not a car person, absolutely loves this car too. BMW is doing some great things with electrification, but the soul of what makes it a fun car is still a focus. I’ve never had the opportunity to drive an i3, but I’ve ridden in an i4, and the fun was still there.
What would a car company look like if its primary customer was the nerd? There are a lot of us…
Tesla
Not enough to keep Saab in business.
– Saab
– Porsche
– Kei cars (in general)
– Grenadier
– Tesla (debateable)
– Radical
Basically makes and models made to be rational (towards intended purpose)
– Lightyear – IF they could have gotten their financial shit together
– Aptera (see lightyear)
– xBus (see lightyear)
Translation: They will build another boring mini SUV kind of thing with larger than life beaver teeth.
Hey come on! That’s unfair. They could also build another boring mini SUV kind of thing with a Groucho Marx moustache!
BMW: Beaver Mouth with Wheels.
I look at it this way. If you lined up all the BMWs from 2010 to current, which vehicles would stick out from the lineup? The i8 and i3 I think. But because the i8 is a halo car, people give it a pass. It steps out of line to become more hardcore. That is acceptable.
X model BMWs are now considered real BMWs, but if they had only made one generation of X SUVs, those would also not be considered real BMWs. Call it consistency bias. If a manufacturer consistently makes a thing, it becomes part of their makeup. But without that, its truly an outlier. Had BMW made and sold Isetta’s since the end of WW2, the i3 wouldn’t stand out. But they didn’t. And explaining “well its based on our history” isn’t enough for non enthusiast. Just ask Subaru how that first Tribeca grill went over with auto buyers.
Sure, I get that, but the Tribeca wasn’t an engineering marvel. If it had been, you’d expect Subaru to EMBRACE it.
It’s just good marketing!
So, is BMW planning on turning a new Leaf?
Besides, what does a guy named Weber know about electric propulsion?
Weber probably knows less about grilling meat than BMW grilles, as well.
I always liked the i3. It seems really silly to call it not a BMW. Take one to a BMW dealer for repair and tell me if the bill is not what you would expect from a BMW.
It needed a five figure repair after driving 134,000 miles – just try and tell me that isn’t a proper BMW
No free repair so not BMW.
Well DTs battery replacement bill was not what I would expect from a BMW. I would have thought $20,000 instead of free. I prefer free fucj BMW.
Well, it still cost that much ultimately, he just wasn’t the one footing the bill
Yes and BMW wants customers to foot that bill. Chase that story it didn’t go clean.
Note that it was government regulations that resolved the situation in DT’s favor.
Let me rephrase it: take an i3 to a BMW dealer to fix after warranty expired and tell me if the bill will not be what you would expect from a BMW.
True I agree.
And the very first car to carry the BMW name wad a license-built copy of the Austin 7, the ultimate city car of the 1920s
You’re not just whistlin’ Dixi!
If I remember correctly, BMW still owns the rights to the Austin name as they got it out of the Rover acquisition in the 90s.
No, Austin was bundled with MG Rover, then wound up with Nanjing and then SAIC, BMW only retained Triumph, Riley, and MINI (as well as, initially, Rover, which was licensed to MG Rover for free until their bankruptcy, then sold to Ford, who passed it to Tata).
Well… Pepperidge Farms remembers
And that’s a really good point btw