Welcome back to Mercedes’ Marketplace Madness! As you know, I love picking up dirt-cheap cars and motorcycles and telling you lovely readers about the dumb things that I do with them. Since I’m shopping all of the time, I always have an evolving list of vehicles for sale. Here’s what I’m obsessed with lately.
Unfortunately, I missed out on giving you a Christmas hit of Mercedes’ Marketplace Madness. I had just finished enjoying Volkswagen Golf GTI goodness, but I couldn’t get home. Much of the country shuttered thanks to a massive weather system that featured heavy snow, high winds, and dangerously low temperatures. But that’s fine; let’s just start off 2023 with some wacky, some fast, and some rare vehicles, courtesy of Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace.
Here’s what I’m looking at this week!
1995 Lincoln Town Car Limo – $3,000
My wife has a secret obsession with limos. She keeps asking me if we can buy an old Town Car limo, put mud tires on it, then take it on a Gambler 500. One day we might, but not right now when the condo association watches my every move. Besides, I’m more of a fan of weird limos, like that time some Germans made a stretch Smart Fortwo called the MadeForSix. Or, how about a really long, 42-foot Lincoln Town Car?
The reader who submitted this one, ExJalopian, does the same thing we do and scroll through classifieds for probably way too much time. They sent me some finds, including a strange trike, and those finds came with little paragraphs:
This limousine is potentially even more eye-catching than the trike. I had to be physically restrained from running straight to the poster’s door and throwing money at him to purchase this 6-wheeled debauchery machine. Like Mercedes and her insatiable thirst for owning ridiculous vehicles, I have dreamed of owning a limousine since I was a kid and this thing scratches an itch I didn’t even know I had. It brings to mind the world-record white limousine with a helicopter landing pad. Unlike the other vehicle the work looks clean and performed by steady, sober hands; although this is still likely the annual meeting place of the International Convention of Drug Enthusiasts.
The concept of the town car has been around for about a century. Those town cars of the 1920s were a style of limousine, describing a vehicle with an open cockpit for the chauffeur and a fixed roof for the passengers.
Lincoln first used the Town Car name for a rare top-spec 1959 Continental. These featured a black exterior pillared with an interior featuring broadcloth, scotch-grain leather, and deep pile carpeting. And there was a partition separating you from your chauffeur. The name returned again as an option, before becoming its own model in the 1981 model year. The Town Car survived three generations, finally dying off in 2011. And through that time, so many of them became limos.
It’s not said who built this one, but it seems to be long enough to land a Cessna on. The seller describes a turning radius that sounds horrific, but at least it seats 12! That extra axle isn’t powered, but it does have an air suspension for the extra weight. Power comes from a 4.6-liter V8 making 210 HP. It’s $3,000 on Craigslist in Davie, Florida with 114,000 miles.
1983 Mercedes-Benz 309D – $9,000
Here’s a neat cargo van with a stubby front end that we didn’t get in America. The Mercedes-Benz TN (Transporter New), also known as the T1, launched in 1977 and was produced until 1995. Mercedes-Benz describes its history like this:
The van’s career began in 1977. The T 1 – still known at the time as the TN (for “Transporter New”) – rolled off the production line at the Bremen plant in large quantities thanks to high demand. Colloquially, the vans of this model series were often known as the “Bremer Transporter” or “Bremer model”. Until 1984, the van was produced in Bremen before production was moved to the Düsseldorf plant until 1995. In its 18-year-long production, across both production locations a total of almost one million units were delivered which meant that the T 1 was the most successful Mercedes-Benz van produced to date.
Power in this 309D comes from a 3.0-liter inline-five diesel making about 88 HP. That drives the rear wheels through an automatic transmission. It’s $9,000 in Mt Vernon, Washington with 177,712 miles.
1997 Mitsubishi Legnum VR-4 – $14,000
This week I have another Group A special for you. The Galant VR-4 was built to comply with World Rally Championship Group A regulations, which stipulated that a manufacturer had to have a road car alongside its racer. Mitsubishi has a rich racing history, which includes highlights like the Pajero and the Lancer 1600 GSR. Mitsubishi was even going to be a late entrant into Group B rallying with a four-wheel-drive Starion. And before the hot rivalry that was the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution and the Subaru Impreza STI, Mitsubishi and Subaru were still rivals with the Galant VR-4 and the Legacy RS.
Power comes from a 2.5-liter twin-turbo V6 making 276 HP, or 83 horses more than the 3.0-liter V6 that normally topped a Galant. That goes through an automatic transmission to all four wheels. But this is no standard Galant VR-4, as this is a wagon, sold as the Legnum in some markets. This is a wagon that boogies to 60 mph in about five and a half seconds.
It’s a Car Of The Year edition, which apparently means that it came with additions like bespoke wheels and a special steering wheel. The car’s pearl paint is intact, as is the steering wheel, but the wheels are now BBS shoes. It’s $14,000 on Facebook Marketplace in San Antonio, Texas with 75,500 miles.
1957 Imperial Crown Southampton – $39,000
In 1926, not long after Chrysler’s founding, Walter P. Chrysler decided to go up to bat against Cadillac, Duesenberg, Packard, Pierce Arrow, Studebaker, and other luxury brands. The first Imperial, the Imperial 80, was advertised for its speed. Back then, Chrysler claimed that its model numbers meant miles per hour, in this case, 80 mph.
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Chrysler’s Imperial cars got faster and more luxurious over the years. Then, in the mid-1950s, Chrysler spun Imperial off as its own brand. This 1957 model comes from that era and it’s painted in an immaculate green.
Inside are luxuries like a push-button TorqueFlite transmission, leather, 6-way power seats, and power locks. This particular example is in incredible condition. Just 30,000 miles are on the odometer and looking through the pictures, it’s hard to see anything wrong with it.
Power comes from a 392 cubic inch Hemi making 325 horses. It’s $39,000 on Facebook Marketplace in Ontario, California.
2008 Suzuki B-King – $5,800
The Suzuki B-King is a bucket list motorcycle. What is it? Well, what if you bought a Suzuki Hayabusa and then decided “Nah, I don’t need those plastics.” What you get out of the other end is a B-King.
As Rider Magazine writes, the Suzuki B-King was a one-year one hit wonder that was years in the making. Suzuki came out with the Hayabusa in 1999, and its 175 HP and nearly 200 mph top speed instantly thrust it into motorcycle legend. Even in America–where cruisers reign supreme–the Hayabusa was a hit.
In 2001, Suzuki decided to shoot for the stars with the B-King, or “Boost King” concept. This featured a Hayabusa GSX1300R engine–already brutal in its stock state–with a supercharger. The Boost King was also pretty smart and featured tech like a GPS weather alert system, self-diagnostics, a telemetry system, and even a voice-based security system.
It took six years for Suzuki to brew the Boost King into a real machine, and when it finally arrived, it lost all of the tech and even the supercharger. What remained were fantastic streetfighter looks and the engine, a 1340cc four making 181 HP, with about 164 HP making it to the wheel. These were sold from 2007 to 2012 globally, but America got them for just a single year.
This one looks to be in good shape, though the provided pictures are baffling. It’s $5,800 on Facebook Marketplace in Roseburg, Oregon with 17,000 miles. If you want your B-King closer to the concept, you can buy supercharger kits for them.
1976 Nissan Patrol GL60 – $25,300
Here’s an off-roader that’s been restored and updated in a few areas that I don’t think will ruin the experience. The Nissan Patrol has been in production for over 71 years. Over that time, it earned a reputation for being a rugged, utilitarian off-roader. Nissan describes its history like this:
The Patrol story began in 1951, when post-war car production in Japan had only recently restarted, and the nation needed reliable off-road performance from a utility vehicle. Early in its history, the original Patrol – called the 4W Series and built in Hiratsuka – demonstrated its unique capabilities. It became the first car to climb Japan’s revered Mount Fuji, a 2500-meter ascent.
This model was updated in 1955 with the 4W61, but it wasn’t until the release of the 4W65/4W66 variants in 1958 that the vehicle first sported the Patrol badges on its bonnet. Soon the Patrol’s rugged 4×4 “Go Anywhere” capabilities became a favorite of both professional and recreational drivers, both in Japan and abroad, after Nissan began exporting Patrol in the early sixties.
Steadily, the Patrol began conquering the world. The consumer-focused 60 Series took on every harsh environment. Australia played a significant role in Patrol’s heritage, becoming one of the first international markets to sell the rugged off-roader outside of Japan from 1961. One year later, a short-wheelbase G60 Patrol was the first motorized vehicle to cross the nation’s grueling Simpson Desert, charting a path over more than 1100 sand dunes from the Northern Territory to Queensland in 12 days.
What we’re looking at here is one of those second-generation 60 Series Patrols. The 60 Series ran from 1959 to 1980, but Americans got it for just 1962 through 1969. According to Motor Trend, 1969 was the last year for the Patrol nameplate in America. Though, today you can find a Patrol platform underpinning Nissan Armadas and Infiniti QX56.
This GL60 (long-wheelbase, left-hand drive) has been given a restoration. There’s a 4.0-liter inline six under the hood connected to a manual transmission and driving all four wheels. It made 145 HP when new, and it’s said to be original. This engine saw a refurbishment this year that included connecting rods and pistons.
The restoration included rust removal, new paint, a new top, new lights, and new wiring. A couple of modern touches include vinyl seats, USB ports, and a stereo with “powerful” speakers. This all was done to make the drive a bit more comfortable. It’s $25,000 on Hemmings with 56,847 miles and includes a Vermont registration and import paperwork.
1991 Acura NSX – $63,500
The Acura NSX was the first supercar that I’ve ever driven, and it’s in my unattainable dream car list. The NSX gives you everything you’d want in a good driver’s car. Its steering gives you a direct feel of what the tires and suspension are doing. And that engine behind you feels directly connected to the accelerator pedal.
The NSX was birthed from Honda’s curiosity in finding a different drive layout for its vehicles. In 1984, Honda was known for its front-engine, front-wheel-drive cars. The layout worked great, but the marque’s engineers felt that they could take frame design further if the drivetrain layout were different. They could perhaps even design a more sporty car.
This idea led to Honda’s engineers cutting up a Honda City and shoving its engine in the back, driving the rear wheels. Those who drove the monster of a City loved how such a simple change made the car so much more fun to drive. The project ultimately got shelved, only to be revived after Honda got back into Formula 1.
Honda wanted to build more than just any sports car. The company wanted its halo car to buck the trend of sports cars being uncomfortable and unsafe. Its halo car would have features like automatic air-conditioning, antilock brakes, power windows, and traction control. Honda’s engineers initially thought to make the NSX out of steel, but not only would it have weighed too much, but steel was found to be too conventional for a car that was to be different. Thus, Honda decided to develop an aluminum monocoque. And its design was inspired by an F-16 fighter jet.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, enthusiasts looking to experience perhaps one of the last analog supercars have driven up prices. So, I went on a mission to find the cheapest NSX that wasn’t completely ragged, full of questionable mods, or with a sketchy history. I landed on this one. This 1991 NSX appears to be stock and is said to come with a clean CarFax. It comes in a wonderful red with a tan interior and manual transmission. Power comes from a 3.0-liter V6 featuring VTEC and pumping out 270 horsepower and 210 lb-ft torque. It’s $63,500 on Facebook Marketplace in Carrollton, Texas with 110,000 miles.
2005 Mercedes-Benz SLK 55 AMG – $11,900
Lately, I’ve been finding myself salivating over the thought of a fast Benz for not too much money, and I think I found an AMG that I want even more than the last one that I featured. This one is the SLK, a car that traces its lineage back to the famous 1955 SL, from Mercedes-Benz:
When the SLK appeared as a series-produced car in 1996, it not only caused a stir on the road but also established a new market segment which has since grown by leaps and bounds. With the steel vario-roof, which transforms the roadster into an all-weather coupé within a matter of seconds, the roadster has been and still is the role model for many open-top cars. The success of the SLK has exceeded all expectations: to date, well over half a million owners have been delighted with their purchase of an SLK Roadster.
With the SLK, Mercedes-Benz continued its roadster tradition which stretches back a long way. Its direct ancestor is considered to be the 190 SL, which owes its existence primarily to the perseverance of Maximilian Edwin Hoffman.
An appropriate acronym for this newcomer was swiftly coined: SLK. In German, these three letters stand for the car’s characteristic properties – sporty, lightweight and short – and, given the great sporting successes of Mercedes-Benz back in the 1920’s and 1930’s, they have an almost mystical resonance.
This SLK 55 AMG is a part of the SLK’s second generation, which launched in 2004. The R171 SLK was an evolution of the previous generation and introduced new features like the Airscarf, a neck-heating system that in theory, would allow for the vehicle’s occupants to operate the vehicle with the top down and still be warm. The roof system was also modified to allow for more cargo capacity. But what we’ve come here for is the AMG version.
Under the hood is a 5.4-liter V8 making 355 HP and 376 lb-ft torque. That’s good for acceleration to 60 mph in just 4.3 seconds. It’s $11,900 on Facebook Marketplace in Countryside, Illinois with 129,000 miles.
1955 Studebaker President State – $18,450
As Hagerty writes, when Packard merged with Studebaker in 1954 the President became the top of Studebaker’s line. Now, you’ve probably noticed how Studebaker had some interesting naming. Well, as Mac’s Motor City Garage writes, that’s because Studebaker adopted a new nomenclature for its vehicles in the 1920s. This naming scheme positioned cars in Studebaker’s lineup based on positions in government. The higher the position, the higher the car. Thus, Commanders and Dictators were on the lower end of the lineup, while the single-year Chancellor and the President represented the higher end. Studebaker also threw in a Champion for good measure.
The President first hit the road in 1926, representing the top of Studebaker’s line. These cars were targeting Cadillac, the Chrysler Imperial, Lincoln, and Packard. Studebaker sold three generations of the President before its discontinuation in 1942. When Studebaker brought it back in 1955, it capped off a model line that included the lower Champion and the mid-level Commander.
Under the long, chrome-adorned body resides a 259 cubic-inch V8 making 185 HP. This particular President is said to be in very original shape, and that includes much of the two-tone paint, chrome, and stainless steel. The dashboard is also said to be in original condition. Though, perhaps what impresses me the most is how clean the engine bay is.
The seller says that the original sticker price was $2,762, or $30,796 in today’s money. They want $18,450 for it from Hemmings in Orange Park, Florida with 63,872 miles.
That’s it for this week! Have a great week and a happy start to your year.
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Another excellent batch! I think I would take the Mitsubishi. It strikes the right balance between price and uniqueness.
I don’t have room for another bike, but if a B-King popped up near me it would be living in my garage. Even if it weren’t so powerful, the ludicrously huge twin pipes make it the most ridiculous-looking bike, like something out Akira, and I adore it for that reason.
Mercedes, I’m continually entertained by this feature and because you keep finding such eye candy it’s slowly becoming my favorite series on The Autopian.
I’m foremost a car nut, but it’s actually the motorcycles that you continually remind me of that really pull on my heartstrings…it’s like you’re taking photos of hot girls out of my old yearbooks and then saying “Hey, she’s attainable now, and she’s barely aged since this photo was taken!”
This week, it’s Suzuki B-King. TOTALLY forgot they existed. TOTALLY WANT now.
This was easily the most desirable heap of vehicles on the list so far, there were a few on there that just… yeah, great finds.
That Imperial just hits all the right notes.
The Studebaker is a close second.
I like the Patrol, too.
I rode a Hayabusa once, and I rank it with the Kawasaki Mark III’s as the bikes that want to kill me.
Mercedes, you outdid yourself this week.
Nobody commenting on the Benz van? I loved those things all through the 80s. I’d take one in a heartbeat. The low HP amuses me – I had an uncle in Europe with a van for his jazz group, had some woefully low power, and it was all based on taxes for vehicles being based on how strong the engine was. I kinda wish we’d had that system when we figured out how to build efficient engines. Rather than ludicrous power, how about rewarding people who wanted to use less fuel and get there eventually, with a mindset that not everything has to happen instantly? But no, we chose minivans that accelerate faster than a Porsche in 1982 instead. Yeah, I want an 88 HP Benz van.
That Chrysler is just… delicious. If I had 40 large lying around, I’d snap it up in a heartbeat. What a classy ride.
It’s hard to look at some of the prices on amazing analog sports cars these days and not get a little discouraged. I watched Savagegeese’s video on the CRX SIR yesterday and I think I’m finally starting to get why so many enthusiasts are so smitten by Honda. There really is something about a no nonsense, high revving, light, manual, naturally aspirated car.
Obviously the NSX is essentially the next amazing Honda performance car after the CRX SIR and it has all of that in spades…then after it came the now unobtanium coated Integra Type R and the rapidly-becoming unobtanium coated S2000. I’ve never gotten to drive any of it unfortunately…the closest thing philosophically that I’ve driven is a Miata, and naturally I have the Miata on a pedestal so I’m sure I’d love any of this stuff.
Vicariously experiencing all of it through videos has made me understand why it’s so special. Unfortunately I think a lot of folks around my age (I’m 32) are in the same boat in that we were born too late to see peak performance Honda when it was in its prime, but now that it’s so universally loved and so many of the cars have been lost to age and tuning it’s not as easy to track down or affordable anymore.
Which sucks, because in a few years I’ll be able to justify a pure weekend car as long as it isn’t outrageously priced. But I don’t think any high revving, light, manual, NA glory will be on the menu. There’s a good chance I’ll just wind up in a Miata or a well loved Boxster…which is hardly a terrible fate but what I really want is an S2000. I guess there will always be a coyote equipped Mustang out there as well but I’m looking for more of a dance partner than a sledgehammer.
Damn. I guess I’ll scour Turo to see if there’s something I can rent.
The B-King doesn’t need the supercharger, trust me. All the power and stupid easy to speed in any gear capability of a Busa without the wind protection. Unlike the Busa, you know you are going fast on a bike that will not suffer fools lightly
Yet still happy to commute without any bad habits. Other than, you know, that little devil on your shoulder…
If the limo doesn’t have a hot tub in the trunk, I’m not buying it.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tweenina/5083890575
NSX – $68k is a lot of cheddar, but with the mileage already accrued, I feel like you could drive it and enjoy it. Plus I am a sucker for pop up headlights.
“1997 Mitsubishi Legnum VR-4 – $14,000”
FYI, those are the correct COTY wheels. Mitsubishi’s primary wheel partner for their WRC years was BBS, and every Lancer Evolution shipped with BBS 5 lugs at all four corners. The correct COTY part is specifically 32862EW. (Mitsubishi wheel PNs are weird; the other wheels are for example 32862BR for steel, 32862GM for 17″ 5-split-spoke, etc.)
Many COTYs are incorrectly equipped with 32862EU (5 spoke alu/mag) because the BBS wheels are worth thousands of dollars on their own.
“1957 Imperial Crown Southampton – $39,000”
Ehhhhh… this one’s tough. Concours is $52k, excellent is $40k, and prices on these are actually trending up due to rarity. If everything on this one checks out, it could be a steal. But it also could be a scam. I’d be very much on guard, but if that’s your jam, this one’s worth a look.
“2005 Mercedes-Benz SLK 55 AMG – $11,900”
Let me give you all some free, truly good advice: NEVER EVER EVER BUY A CHEAP MERCEDES. THERE IS NO SUCH THING.
This is a cheap Mercedes. It is black. It is over-glossed in staged photos. Somebody painted the wheels high gloss black. And it’s on Facebook Marketplace. You really think quality SLK55’s are listed cheap on FB marketplace instead of on niche dealers at not unreasonable prices?
They aren’t.
“1955 Studebaker President State – $18,450”
HAHAHAHA! Are you fucking high? Look. A concours President State tops out at $15.8k after a 40% spike in values. AFTER a spike. As in prices went way, way, way up. And they want $18.5k? Maybe it’s a typo and they mean $14,850 (which wouldn’t be unreasonable if this one has a concours trophy already, but only then.)
Prices on these are not likely to increase much further, either. They’re being pushed by far more desirable ones, like the Speedster.
That green Imperial is magnificent. I’m a sucker for Exner-mobiles. Wouldn’t kick that Studebaker out of the garage either…
I’m rather astounded at the mileage on the limo, considering how unwieldy it seems. Sure, there are plenty of 42′ straight body trucks, but they usually have much shorter wheelbases.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. How the hell could anybody stand to drive it that many miles? Maybe before it got stretched?
Damn that SLK is a lot of fun for the money!
How did I not know that the Legnum was a thing?! I need it even though up until 5 minutes ago I had no idea that it existed.
OK, first, that NSX is just delicious. Just about the perfect sports car.
But, hey, the Imperial is the darling of this bunch, and that’s saying something with the NSX here. The green, the casual script badges, the toilet seat on the trunk. Even the fracking floor mat is mint.
Hmm – about the limo…
A stock 1995 Lincoln Town car was 18.25 feet long and weighed 4031 pounds – let’s call it 4000.
The limo is 42 feet long, or 2.3 times the original length.
If we assume a linear increase in weight along with the increase in length, the limo should weigh in at 2.3 times its original figure, or about 9200 pounds. (That’s probably a bad assumption but this is just a thought exercise.)
It has the stock 210hp engine, giving it a power:weight of .022hp per pound or 45.6hp per ton.
That is roughly the same ballpark as a stock VW Beetle using the air-cooled 1585cc engine (referred to as the 1600cc). Oof. Good thing the car is in Florida because it might not be able to go up a hill. 🙂
I think your math is pretty good here, since things sort of even out.
Since a 4.6L V8 engine is probably about 500 lbs or so (hard to find the weight for that particular engine, sorry), we should probably take 3500 x 2.3 for 8050 lbs. Throw the engine back in and we’re looking at 8550. But wait: the interior compartment is larger than the engine bay or trunk, plus includes seats and all that, so we could be adding more weight than if we were just multiplying the body by 2.3. We’re also adding an axle (which is noted to not be an additional drive axle). Without running it over some scales, I think you’re pretty solidly in the ballpark.
Counterpoint: Fully loaded, the family farm’s grain trucks have roughly .005 hp/lb. It’ll go uphill fine, it just won’t do it quickly. Not that that’s a bad thing.
If we assume that the chances of distracting debauchery increase with each additional passenger, a little extra reaction time will be beneficial to the driver.
Question for the gallery, inspired by the statement that a 1991 NSX is “one of the last analog supercars”.
Leaving aside that I’m not sure I agree that the NSX is a supercar, what defines “analog”? It’s usually presented as an unquestioned Good Thing, but what are the requirements?
Manual transmission seems like an easy prerequisite, but is not sufficient on its own (unless something like a modern Mustang or Camaro is still analog?). Naturally aspirated engine maybe? But is a 1980 911 Turbo not analog then? (“digital”, perhaps?) Saying something like “lack of driver assistance features” is pretty vague; is ABS a driver assistance feature? Because this NSX had it.
Computer-aided technology on cars seems to me to be more of a continuum than a sharp break, so unless we are saying you need to have mechanical carburetors, AM radios, and such to be analog, I’m not sure where we draw the line.
Please don’t take this comment as criticism of Mercedes’ description; it’s a genuine question that I don’t have a good answer to, and I’m simply wondering what others think.
I’ve always assumed that meant lack of traction control.
Oh that’s a good question! Part of what made the NSX magical for me was that it had just enough technology to make it a reliable, safe enough car, but left everything else up to you. The accelerator uses a cable, there wasn’t any power steering, and the manual transmission was free of the aids that you’ll find in many vehicles today. When driving the old NSX, it felt like I was in charge, and not just telling a computer what to do. The new NSX, for all of its technological feats and brutal speed, felt like playing a video game.
As for the supercar vs sports car thing, I can see it go either way. Honda plays a little loose with the term in its own documentation. On Honda’s page detailing the car’s history, the company says “sportscar,” but on other pages, like the one below, Honda calls it a supercar.
https://hondanews.com/en-US/releases/acura-marks-30-years-since-debut-of-iconic-nsx-supercar
Hmmm…it would be an interesting question for automakers. “How do you define supercar?”
When it first came out Motorweek said it was ‘A Ferrari your grandmother could drive.’ because it was so well-mannered and predictable compared to a Porsche or a Ferrari but it could still beat either off the lights.
I think analog means straight input from the driver, rather than the driver sending a signal to a computer, which performs the action. And it is a slippery slope, because ABS is digital, and I’m sure the NSX had anti-locks.
Just because I’m a pedant, ABS is frequently digital now, but doesn’t have to be. For several decades it existed as entirely mechanical systems before electronic controls made it cheap enough for near universal deployment.
While ABS itself is digital, my understanding is that it is a passive system until an ABS sensor detects that a wheel has locked. Then it intervenes and pulses the brakes to avoid lock up. So as long as you aren’t locking up the brakes, the brakes behave as a normal, “analog,” driver’s control.
Generally, supercar is defined as at least a 189MPH top speed. Which the NSX can’t achieve – theoretical is 169MPH but it’s governed at 150MPH or 155MPH. The NSX is also far more computerized than the cultists would have you believe; part of it’s “easy to drive” was extreme dependence on both a lack of low end torque and an extremely complicated traction control system. Oh yeah, that’s very much in there. As well as a very highly advanced and expensive 4 channel ABS system. And you can’t disable any of those.
It’s one of the things I truly HATE about the NSX besides it’s ridiculously overhyped nature. I have driven old and new NSX and in terms of going overboard on bleeding edge tech? They’re equivalent. You didn’t even get true 4-channel ABS – much less with VSP + TCS – in a Mercedes-Benz in 1995. The E320 only has a 2-channel Bosch system. The NSX feels like playing a video game because it’s every bit as computerized and then some.
It fools you into thinking you’re in control, when in reality, there’s a thousand tiny adjustments that keep you from overdriving it and reining it in if you should accidentally manage to do so. Watch a first gen NSX doing a burnout. Once it’s off kilter and senses the front tires are rotating, that 4 channel ABS kicks in and brings it straight in a hurry. It will rein in power, apply braking, and work overtime to put it back in check.
Now, go look at the NSX gauge cluster. See that “TCS” button? You’d think that turns TCS off, wouldn’t you? It does not. The number of ‘TCS’ buttons that actually turn it fully off can be counted on your fingers and toes and leave you with some leftovers. (Hilariously, one of them is a freaking Buick. And not fully because they wanted to.) And that’s after you exclude things named GT3 and GT2.
You want to know the last truly analog sports car?
Dodge Viper. TCS? Nope. VSP? Nuh-uh. ABS? Hell no! You didn’t even get power windows. The PCM in the SR I is literally not capable of running TCS or VSP, and forget ABS when you’ve already had to adapt it for 10 cylinders. Forget the lack of A/C. There is nothing in an SR I that is not stripped to the absolute bare minimum, and the power steering is there because you cannot turn the wheels without it.
In fact, you didn’t even get ABS in the Viper until the 1999 late SR II, and it was a costly and uncommon option which frankly, sucked ass. (It’s a Teves system that was far, far too weak.) ABS didn’t become a standard feature until the ZB’s.
And the SR II’s exactly what driving pure analog is actually like. It is not a well-behaved, well-mannered machine your grandma can drive to the store. No matter how much or how little power. It is a machine that is completely unforgiving of any and all mistakes in maintenance and driving, at any speed. Cruising down the highway steering with a knee, suddenly a pothole, and you’re all over the place because there’s no buffer and nothing keeping that wild swing in check. There’s no computer softening the suspension before impact, no yaw vs angle saying ‘oh shit apply some brake at this wheel’ and no ABS pump to do it anyway, nothing saying “the tail lights are in front of the windshield REDUCE POWER.”
It’s a very, very heavy dose of rose tinted glasses in other words.
And remember, one of my comparisons is a car that professional instructors refused to drive because the combination of absolutely zero driver aids, bone-shattering race suspension, and wrist-breaking steering rack. Because they recognized that it as a car that when you exceed limits through unfamiliarity alone, it will HURT you. No matter how ‘slow’ it is. No rev matching. No drive-by-wire. No ABS. No traction control. Only a learning cliff that has zero tolerance for error. Just one error riding a kerb on exit would punt you into the middle of the track.
“Pure analog is great” is a fantasy tale. In a sports car? It’s a race car, full stop.
My wishlist for an “analog” automotive experience: unconditional key switch control over the starter/ignition, manual transmission with no electronic assists, cable throttle linkage, a relatively low level of hydraulic steering assist (or none if the car is light enough), no traction/stability control (or fully defeatable if installed), and a lever-actuated, cable-linked parking brake. IOW I’m in direct, proportional control of all go/stop systems, and nothing will interfere with the driving experience except the rev limiter and the critical engine management components.
I would say that the cutoff is when you reach the point where the computer/sensors/etc do anything more than throw a CEL, because by then it’s more than just a monitoring system and involved in the actual function of the car itself. Similarly, if, in order to draw more performance out of a vehicle, you plug it in and give it a tune as opposed to making adjustments yourself, that no longer qualifies as “analog.” Can you make the adjustments to the tune yourself? Sure. But ultimately the computer dictates their function. Just my two cents on the notion
It’s definitely a continuum. There was a long era in automotive history where there were no electronics in cars at all, aside from maybe a radio. We’re talking pre-electronic fuel injection, basically. Those are the cars I’d consider fully analog.
Subjectively, I’d say that cars begin to no longer feel analog once electronics begin to intervene between the driver and the drivetrain. Once the car starts doing things like adjusting the steering weight and ratio on the fly, treating the throttle input as a suggestion rather than a command, upshifting a supposedly-manually-controlled transmission rather than letting the engine go to redline, and fiddling with its brakes to keep the car on a controlled path, the driving experience changes. Instead of the driver operating the car, the car is now operated by a computer. The driver can send inputs, but they’re not the only inputs, they’re not necessarily the most important inputs, and the computer may react to those inputs in ways the driver does not expect and would not be able to predict ahead of time, even with a perfect understanding of how the car works in a mechanical sense.
That’s not always the worst thing. Computers can do things that human drivers just plain can’t, and cars perform better, are safer, and are more efficient because of all that digital wizardry going on behind the curtain. However, they are less connected to the driver than they were. Pressing a pedal that is connected to the throttle body by a cable is more direct than pressing a pedal that sends an input to a program that algorithmically determines how the throttle body should behave based on a variety of factors, only some of which the driver can control or is even likely to be aware of.
After that we start getting into ADAS stuff, but by that point the ship has already well and truly sailed.
Just a personal definition but I’ve always taken “analog” in the context of driving to mean more “as direct a connection as possible” rather than “not digital, i.e. no electronics”. So I’d say for a car to be truly analog means a mechanical throttle, no power steering and no power brakes and a mechanical rather than hydraulic clutch system. That way every control is physically connected to the corresponding parts with no fluid or electrical systems in between. Essentially this would mean that truly analog cars have to be so small and light they probably wouldn’t pass modern safety standards.
For me analog means manual transmission with physical linkage directly to it, brakes that are only hydraulic boosted, a direct steering rack with hydraulic assist at the most. No ABS, no TCS or ESC, nothing that interferes with the pedal feel and steering feel through the things you grab. The shifter should clunk into gear solidly and mechanicly, the blinker knob should click solidly into place, and things should all just feel chunky and clicky when used.
Analog – engaging and locking the hubs in 4wheel drive, low range, then driving it while letting the steering wheel kinda do its own thing while giving it some guidance nudges to keep it pointed on a nice non-high-centered line.
Last time I was looking at buying a car, I JUST missed a non-AMG SLK at a decent price (they had sold it over the phone just before I got there. The buyer had not yet arrived, but the money went through). I am really tempted to head to Illinois, but I really don’t have the time/funds right now for another car purchase, especially out of state.
I have long drooled over those Legnums. I’d seriously consider it if I could get over being burned by Mitz so many many many times over the years.
Didn’t know they existed until just now, but it’s a great looking ride!
Do it right and buy a 2004 – 2006 Forester XT
I really wish I bought one of those XTs years ago. Now most of them have seemingly fallen into the wrong hands.
Correct: the wrong hands being any other than ours.
This is the way