It’s my favorite time of the month when we review the number of vehicles for sale on dealer lots and try to draw some conclusions. If you’re a Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram dealer, uh, you’re having about as good of a morning as San Francisco’s football team.
What a game last night, huh? It wouldn’t be The Morning Dump without a little reference to last night’s Superb Owl game. My favorite aspect of football is special teams, so it was quite the affair for me and I believe Harrison Butker was the real MVP.
Am I going to talk about Stellantis some more? Yes, I am, because there are some juicy thoughts about Italy v. Stellantis I’d like to share with y’all. And while we’re talking about Stellantis we might as well talk about Geely-Renault’s potential hybrid tie-up.
Finally, GM and LG have a deal to help keep GM’s electric vehicles compliant with IRA regulations. Today is going to rule. Let’s do it.
America Has A Lot Of Hornets, Chargers, Challengers… Do You See A Pattern Here?
The first rule of data reporting is “know-thy-data,” and the data I use for these articles comes from CarEdge. The nice thing is. I worked with CarEdge on the Trimflation article. and the folks there were super helpful, so I have a decent sense of how it all works.
CarEdge scrapes publicly available listings for a huge percentage of dealership websites (something like 90%) and so they can see pricing changes, listings, and when stuff is removed from the site (presumably sold); they then draw some interesting conclusions from this info. Automakers don’t share a lot of granular details on their sales, so this is a smart way to try to make some reasonable guesses about the state of the market in real-time (we do get average transaction price much later via companies like TransUnion and quarterly/monthly sales, but it’s a big time delay).
This is how we found out last year that there was a 517-day supply of the Dodge Hornet. The good news is that, while Dodge Hornets still lead the list of highest inventory/sales pace, it’s at least down to a 480-day market supply with an average selling price of $41,114. This seems like a high price given, you know, the Dodge Hornet of it all.
If you were curious, “Markey Day Supply” takes the total number of vehicles for sale and looks at how long it takes to sell one of those vehicles to determine the MDS. A dealer wants enough vehicles on the lot to make customers happy, but not so many that a dealer is basically paying to keep the cars there and feels pressured to lower profits by cutting a deal. A good MDS is somewhere between 40-50-day supply.
Unsurprisingly, most of the vehicles on the list are at Stellantis-brand car dealers, with the Challenger and 300 high on the list, as well as the Ram 2500 and 3500 and Maserati Levante.
But I’m most interested in the Dodge Charger, which ended production in December and has a 477-day market supply with a total of 33,629 for sale nationwide. That’s a lot, especially with an average selling price of $44,375.
What’s going on here? A few things. Sedans are not as popular as they used to be, and even with lower gas prices a big RWD sedan has only a certain appeal. But CarEdge makes a good point as well:
All Stellantis models, not just the ones mentioned here, are highly negotiable right now. However, some CDJR dealers are notorious for resisting negotiation, despite the massive oversupply.
Why would some CDJR dealers not want to negotiate?
Think about it this way. All the LX platform cars are dead, so that means your Chrysler dealer is just Pacificas. Jeep is trimming down its models, but at least you’ve got Wranglers and Grand Cherokees. Dodge is losing the Charger and the Durango. You’re left with Hornets and… uh, Hornets for Dodge
New stuff is coming, but it’s not coming fast enough, so once you sell out of Chargers and 300s and Challengers there’s not a lot left. Floorplan loans (i.e. the loans dealers take out to buy the cars they sell customers) catch up with dealers eventually, but I get why some dealers are holding out as long as they can.
The flipside of this also makes sense. The more popular a vehicle, the shorter the MDS will be. The same is true of inventory, even an unpopular vehicle could end up with a smaller MDS if there aren’t enough being built.
As our contributor Parker pointed out last week, once you drive a Range Rover Sport you want a Range Rover Sport. I still kinda want either a Corolla Cross Hybrid or a Kia Carnival so it’s nice to at least see the Corolla Cross Hybrid finally off of this list.
So what’s going on with Stellantis? Clearly, the company isn’t distracted by anything.
Stellantis V. Italy, Redux
Oh man, Stellantis v. Italy round three!
Here’s a quick refresher, if you weren’t paying attention.
Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares (pictured right) was a little peeved that Italy’s EV incentives weren’t strong enough, which explains why the company is having to cut back on production in the country. Fiat, also, wasn’t the biggest brand in Italy at the end of last year, as the company was outsold by VW for the first time since WWII.
Also for the first time since WWII, Italy has a new, very right-wing government led by PM Georgia Meloni (pictured left). The government is trying to contend with a slow economy and doesn’t like the fact that Stellantis is a more French company than it used to be, since it merged with PSA a few years ago. Meloni’s government wants Tavares to build more cars in Italy and has critiqued Stellantis for building uncompetitive models.
This got weird last week when Italy’s Finance Minister said that Italy would be down with buying some of Stellantis (which is partially owned by the French government).
There’s some good commentary from Automotive News that explains why this is weird:
Such a statement is pure propaganda ahead of crucial EU elections this spring, firstly because the Italian government doesn’t have the extra 4.3 billion euros ($4.6 billion) it would need to buy a 6.1 percent stake in Stellantis, whose market capitalization is close to 70 billion euros ($75.5 billion).
It would also go in the exact opposite direction of what Meloni’s government is trying to avoid: Taking more money from taxpayers’ pockets in a slow economy, then selling stakes in previously privatized public utilities to prevent a tax increase.
The minister of economy and finance, Giancarlo Giorgetti, an expert in economic matters, on Friday put the last nail in the coffin for Urso’s idea. “If the government would consider buying a stake in an Italian automaker, I would rather prefer Ferrari to Stellantis,” he was quoted as saying.
LOL, burn. This is my favorite global automotive spat.
As Reuters points out, Stellantis has way more chips to play here:
Stellantis’ capacity utilisation rate at its European factories stood at 56% last year, down from 64% in 2019 and well below the 71% rate at Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE), opens new tab, according to GlobalData data provided to Reuters. Automakers aim for at least 80% capacity utilization.
Stellantis is using its excess production capacity for leverage in bargaining for subsidies and policy support from Rome and governments in other countries. In the United States, state and federal officials offered subsidies to persuade Tavares not to close a Jeep plant in Illinois, which will now be used to build a new midsize pickup truck that fills a gap in the company’s U.S. model lineup.
You can just imagine Carlos Tavares, twirling his mustache while saying “It would be a shame if we had to lose a shift at Melfi…”
Renault-Geely Are Going To Do Hybrids
Amid all of this global intrigue with Stellantis has been the suggestion that maybe the French government might try to merge Stellantis and Renault much in the way that Peugeot and Citroen came together in the past to form PSA, which eventually merged with FCA to form Stellantis.
Renault doesn’t want this merger to happen, so a good way for Renault to avoid this fate is to find another partner to help it offset costs and develop engines and hybrids for the next, interim generation of vehicles.
Oh, look at that, a Reuters scoop:
French carmaker Renault (RENA.PA), and Chinese rival Geely (0175.HK), expect to finalise a joint venture for their combustion and hybrid engines towards the end of February, two sources close to the matter told Reuters.
At the same time, Saudi Aramco (2223.SE), is set to announce the signing of a memorandum of understanding to invest in the venture, one of the sources said, a move that would confirm Aramco’s letter of intent from March last year.
This all makes sense to me. Aramco gets to diversify while also still investing in combustion engines, Geely gets to continue to put its hands in yet another tarte, and Renault gets some capital.
GM/LG Make A $19 Billion Battery Supply Deal
GM may be thinking about ways to get back into the hybrid game, but it’s still looking at electric vehicles long-term. Its big battery partnership has been with South Korea’s LG Chem and that’s looking to continue.
Through the long-term supply contract, starting in 2026 and running through 2035, LG Chem will supply GM with more than 500,000 tons of cathode materials, which is enough to power 5 million battery electric vehicles with a range of 310 miles (500 kilometers) on a single charge. The materials supplied will come from LG Chem’s under-construction plant in Tennessee, which will enable GM to meet EV subsidy criteria set by the U.S. Inflation Reduction Act.
“This contract builds on GM’s commitment to create a strong, sustainable battery EV supply chain to support our fast-growing EV production needs,” said Jeff Morrison, GM vice president, global purchasing and supply chain, in a Wednesday statement. “Importantly, this work with LG Chem will happen in Tennessee and strengthens the North American supply chain at a critical time for the industry.”
If you weren’t aware “strengthens the North American supply chain” is automaker speak for “GIMME MY MONEY.”
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Thanks to Red Barchetta in the Twisters article for pointing out how great and weird the original Twister soundtrack was. Tori Amos, Van Halen, k.d. lang, Mark Knopfler, freakin’ Shania Twain.
The Big Question
We did this with Nissan last week so let’s do it with Stellantis. Which Stellantis models are truly competitive in the current market? You can do Europe or America or both!
Got a confirmation from Dodge they’re dropping the Durango at the end of 2024? Because if it’s being dropped next year (when there will be 2025 Chargers out), then they aren’t losing them very quickly. Plus, there’s still Stellantis Fleet services saying the Durango will be getting the Hurricane engines…. which would be an odd way to drop a vehicle from production without replacement.
You know what’s funny about this data? Look at the two out of four minivans for sale in the USA. They are on the high-demand list. I wonder what all these manufacturer product planners think when they see extremely high demand for a Kia Carnival and Toyota Sienna meanwhile adding the seventh variant of their silly crossover to the lineup instead of a minivan. Clearly there’s a market here. I grew up during the heyday of the minivan, when every manufacturer started selling these things after Chrysler/Dodge were early to the game. I’m not in the market for one, but if there were more varied competition it might be good for everyone.
When it was my wife’s time to choose a car I did the happy dance when she decided on a van instead of an SUV.
I’m going to guess it’s not so much the product planners, but the MBAs running the company that with their limited real-world knowledge, want to push SUVs because they’re the current hot thing.
Those Ram 2500/3500 numbers can’t be right? There’s no way Stellantis is only moving ~450 RAM HDs a month. How could they possibly justify all of the engineering and certification expense of the Cummins engine with that low of volume?
Plus, they recently recalled ~220,000 2019 and 2020 RAM 2500/3500s equipped with the Cummins. So you’re telling me in just 4 years they’ve gone from moving 110,000 units minimum per year (remember, that number doesn’t count gasoline trucks) to 5,400?
Doesn’t make sense to me.
I think Nissan is in a better position than Stellantis in the US.
Stellantis light duty models I think are competitive/viable, in order:
– Ram 1500 – fullsize American pickup
– Jeep Wrangler – The most modified car in the US, though the Bronco has definitely dampened people’s fervor for these
– Jeep Grand Cherokee & L – These are a decent option in the 3-row/larger 2-row market
– Jeep Compass – Not very competitive but it simply exists as an option in the extremely competitive compact crossover class and isn’t overpriced
– Chrysler Pacifica – It exists as a minivan when few others do, and its not too bad considering its age
Dodge is quite uncompetitive, they need to:
– Add decontented trims to Hornet to bring the price way down
– Replace the Durango ASAP, probably a decontented Wagoneer
– Not rely on the new Charger, as it has the most conservative fans out of the 3 muscle cars, and sedans don’t sell great
Chrysler needs more product, and could do well with:
– an EV sedan, should get decent range b/c of its good aero
– (not really sure what to do with the brand tbh)
– assorted Peugeot/Citroen PHEV products?
– perhaps some kind of larger PHEV 2-row SUV at a Buick level of luxury?
– maybe the PHEV Wagoneer?
Jeep was quite competitive, but is falling off:
– Renegade kind of started the whole subcompact crossover trend, but they let it age and then die. It needs a replacement, steal it from the french and not the italians
– Cherokee was decent but didn’t keep up with the competition, I guess it was replaced by the Compass which may be better suited at being cheap
– Wagoneer was released too late to really take advantage of the chip shortage where high margin products were acceptable and is now a flop without prestige
– The Gladiator probably got its thunder stolen by the Bronco, and probably cannibalizes sales from the Wrangler which is unproductive. This should’ve been a Dodge/Ram first
– The Wrangler needs an update to respond to the Bronco now that supply has stabilized
Ram is doing well, PHEV-ing their full size ‘EV’ truck was a good move
Fiat probably needs to die in the US again, as the 500 will likely never have space to have adequate range for North American standards in either EV or even PHEV form.
Alfa Romeo is doing its best to be a unique stylish Italian brand, I’m not sure what more can be done to it. The Hornet undercutting the Tonale didn’t help things at all.
Maserati needs to remind people that they still exist. Having ancient cars doesn’t help with that much
The Wrangler, a vehicle I owned and loved a few generations ago, is too fat and dear to be interesting to me (and younger generations who can no longer afford one) anymore. I had a YJ but I think they hit the sweet spot with the TJ and since then the vehicle has become a cartoonish joke.
My instructions for the sorry ass Wrangler team would be to lose 500-800lbs, it’s currently a thousand pounds heavier than the TJ. It has gone from 66.7 inches wide to over 74 since the TJ. Bring it back to under 68. Give it a base manual 4 cylinder tuned for torque similar to the base engine in the new Tacoma. If people want a more powerful Jeep make them pay four grand for a six or whatever half-baked ev variant they have. Give us a price leader, call it the Wrangler Graduate and make it as bare bones as possible. Price it at 28,900.
While I agree with you in principal, this is impractical. They are selling JLs as fast as they can build them still. Why change?
You’re right and you caught me! I admit I just want them to build one I’d like.
I went to the Huntington Beach dealer’s website out of curiosity. The 4 door Wranglers are all at least 5K off msrp up to 12K. The electric ones are not moving, they have 63. They’re not moving like they were.
Oof. I didn’t realize they were starting to discount them like that. Is… is it possible they’ve saturated the market? Everyone who wants a wrangler has one and there is nothing left to do but find alien civilizations and sell to them?
I get how many of these pieces are composed on a phone, and I get that sometimes errors slip by proofreaders, and I get that not every piece is subject to the same level of editorial scrutiny, and I know spellcheck and autocorrect don’t always work like we want them too, but…I think Markey Day is on SNL.
It took me a second to realized it was a typo and not some cutesy name for a metric first observed by someone named “Markey” (first, last or single, like Cher).
There’s a drunk who is occasionally on the corner down the road from me. He’s always trying to argue with strangers and occasionally tries to rope them into a fight. He’s competitive. Just sayin’.
One of my esteemed Canadian compatriots described pro sports this way (paraphrasing here): People wasting their time watching grown men get paid to play children’s games. Then wasting the rest of their time talking about it and obsessing over the statistics.
.
How is something a waste of time if the person enjoys doing it? What would your esteemed compatriot suggest people do instead?
I’m not sure. I say, if you like football, go play. Like hockey, go play. Enjoy the sport and get some exercise. Why are you paying other people to do it? Pay them to do the shit jobs like clean your toilets or dig a ditch, or maybe fix your car. 😉
See Rabob’s reply.
Why watch movies? You’re just watching grown adults play pretend.
Why go to museums? You’re just paying to see adults finger paint.
Why go to concerts? You’re just paying adults to do what elementary school kids do with recorders.
Our local CJDR dealers basically never mark down anything. They all got fat during the pandemic, and now sit on a whole lot of inventory with absolutely bonkers MSRPs. They never keep a single Pacifica in stock under 50k. In fact, they don’t have a single new car available for under 33k right now, and that’s for a derpy Compass. Sooooo yeah, their supply issue has to be entirely due to pricing.
Hey Stellantis, I’ve encountered two people who genuinely thought the Dodge brand was dead. Like, they both heard the Charger and Challenger were done, and figured that was it. You might want to do something about that. Sort of hard to sell cars to people if they think you’re dead.
yup.
Fat pigs get slaughtered.
TIL the hornet starts a a whole lot more than I expected. how anyone is spending that much on those things is almost baffling.
I didn’t see one in the wild for the first time until this weekend. I thought it looked alright all things considered but I can’t imagine paying *that* price for Dodge/Alfa combo breaker reliability….
I’ve only ever seen them at the local auto show/fair along with the alfa toenail. I never paid attention to the price because yea, it looks fine but not at all interested and cannot imagine the frame of mind needed to think that price is okay.
Tinfoil hat time:
Don’t emissions rules essentially outlaw the bigger engine versions of these cars after the 2023 or 2024 model year? Maybe the plan was to build as many as many as they could, while they could. Sell them when they can.
Oh yeah, 100%. That’s not even a conspiracy. It’s very difficult to build these cars going forward without having a significant offset (which is how Ford does the Mustang V8 going forward)/.
Yeah that’s how Lexus has kept V8s going for so long as well. All those Prius and RAV4 Hybrid sells add up.
After the ’24 model year, even offsets are illegal.
The “dirtiest” emissions (pollutants, not greenhouse gasses) standard still legal is 0.160 g/mi (and even that one might be gone, I’m not sure now). The cleanest is 0.030 g/mi. If you make your car cleaner than 0.030, you don’t get bonus points.
Every year, the weighted average has to go down. In 2017, it was 0.086 g/mi. For 2020, it had to be 0.065 g/mi. For 2024, it’s 0.037. For ’15 and on, it’s 0.030. Unless you can find a way to make the dirty engines pass 0.030, it would take an infinite number of cleaner engines to offset just one.
In future news “Someone just bought this 20 year old Charger brand new off the lot!”
I’m not as familiar with the non-murica Stellantis brands, so I guess Jeep Wrangler and Pacifica Hybrid.
On day 478: The Climate War begins. So, get your comments in now. Because on Wednesday, June 4th, 2025. We’ll be commenting from our respective trenches.
And the losers of that war will be forced to drive Hornets
I have no interest in sportsballs. I do have a strong interest in not being annoyed by jerks with illegal fireworks though. My animals even more so. Fireworks terrify them.
That’s why even as a SFBA resident I was happy to have a quiet night.
Fuck fireworks
Sounds like the worst panful burning sensation ever.
As a KC area resident, one of my dogs performed a nuclear fear meltdown. She was rooting for the 49ers.
Oh that poor pup 🙁
I’ll occasionally browse listings for Chargers and Challengers for fun and two things never cease to blow my mind:
1). How many of the damn things have been in accidents.
….and
2). How many of them there are at or above MSRP.
It’s wild to me how resistant to discounting them dealerships seem to be. If you want a 392 or the big daddy you’re paying at or over MSRP new…and a lot of them are horrendously equipped for the money. We’re talking rental spec interiors, halogen headlights, and basic colors like white, black, and silver.
For $50,000 plus? Yeah fuckin right. You can get into fast luxury cars for that money. Really the only ones they discount are over equipped RTs that bump up against Poo Pack prices. Those are actually halfway decent buys if you can live with “only” 370 horsepower because they’ll chop up to about $10,000 off. I’d be fine with paying mid to high 30s new for an RT with all the bells and whistles. The V6 ones shouldn’t even exist so I’m not discussing them.
If you can’t afford a V8 keep saving up. It’ll be worth it. That being said they’re great used buys. Lots of rental fleets buy them and you can find nice enough, clean CarFax V8 Chargers and Challengers in the mid to high 20s. It’s a lot of car for that money.
Anyway what do they have that’s competitive? The Wrangler certainly comes to mind. As does the Grand Cherokee. It’s not my cup of tea personally but my family has had two of them and they’re an institution at this point. If you can live with the horrendous fuel economy they’re pretty damn solid, and they’re currently going for thousands off MSRP.
The Pacifica is competitive as well and is currently the only PHEV minivan on the American market. I wouldn’t say Stellantis has a ton of competitive products but they know what they’re good at and stick with it. People will buy anything with a Jeep badge on it. It’s just one of those brands that lives in the normie consciousness.
Jeep seems like an aspirational brand for those who can’t afford to buy one.
Doesn’t their average buyer finance for over 70 months with an interest rate like 8% over the average rate of Ford buyers?
Jeep’s going to be doing repos at a higher rate than the average buy here / pay here lot in the next couple of years.
Probably true for a Compass/Patriot/Renegade buyer much more than a GC/Wrangler/GW customer.
Jeep is one of the rare brands that appeals across virtually all income brackets, so in some sense you have to take the good with the bad.
I feel Mustangs are similar, just within a single model.
I’m not sure that’s true in the same way.
It’s not rare (at least in my experience) to see a household with both a Viper and a Wrangler, or a 911 and a Grand Cherokee, or simply to see those Jeep models parked in very expensive subdivisions. I don’t see Mustangs in those driveways as much, with the possible exception of 1st gens nicely restored.
I think the Mustang has a fairly broad appeal, but not quite as broad on the upper end as the “core” Jeep products.
You’re right on this. You’re just as likely to see a roached out Renegade in a dicey part of town as you are to see a loaded Grand Cherokee in a nice part of town. There are a number of pretty wealthy people in my family (not at all bragging, just giving context) and there have been just as many Jeeps around as BMWs and the like.
Hell, my old man could afford to drive whatever the hell he wants at this point and between 2011 and 2023 he just had Grand Cherokees as his daily. He finally caved and got an X5 50e last summer but his damn Cherokee is still kicking around because he refuses to get rid of it. My youngest sister drives it now and it’s at about 150k miles.
The only things really comparable were/are full sized domestic trucks and their associated SUVs (Suburban, Escalade, Navigator, etc). Likely because there’s no Euro-snob version of any of them (or the Wrangler)
Back when low trim models were attainable and ultra-platinum trims didn’t exist yet, you wouldn’t be able to predict the income of a Suburban or F-150 driver with much precision. Now it’s pretty much just the new Wrangler driver who could be a millionaire or a solidly middle class person.
I do think it may depend on what the “main” car is and on the income level. If the main is a higher-end SUV or (rarer these days) sedan, I often see a Mustang in the drive as a secondary or fun car. Esp. now that it’s crossed over from pony car to sports car, but always b/c Ford’s deliberate attempt to make it as minimally-polarizing (looking at you Camaro) as possible.
And there seems to be a desire in many families at we’ll say an upper middle class income level to balance their automotive consumption, if that makes sense.
I’d like to find where I read that (probably here), but that was an average across the brand.
Wrangler / Grand Cherokee / Gladiator account for over half their unit sales. Compass / Cherokee / Renegade are less than 24% of their unit sales. It would be hard for Compass buyers to drag the averages down by that much.
Sounds similar in some respects to the sport bike market.
Go to any dealership and you’ll see a huge amount of used ones, “been down once,” usually with incongruous new fairing panels, and a crop of new ones on which they won’t deal at all.
“The Pacifica is competitive as well and is currently the only PHEV minivan on the American market”
You’re forgetting the Toyota Sienna is now has 1 powertrain option and it is hybrid. Rated at 36 mpg highway and ag least acct. to people replying on fuelly they’re averaging 32 mpg which seems pretty darn good given it is a huge 7 seat people & stuff hauler
https://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/sienna
The Sienna is not a plug-in
Ahhh you’re right
I think I thought it was bc it (to me) only makes sense that it should be
I’m a staunch defender of the V6 Charger. It’s not the most practical choice, but it theoretically should be a reasonably priced RWD (or AWD) sedan for people who want a little more panache in their sedan design. There was a time where a V6 Charger could be had for a little over 30k. Yeah it’s not as exciting as the V8, but it was certainly more interesting (and still, quicker) than your typical sedan, and I think a lot of people would have been well served by them versus taking out massive debt.
I’m a fan of Glorious Garbage.
I can’t stand V6 Challengers because they’re everywhere in my area and the people who wind up in them feel the need to drive at 11/10ths at all times. Even when driven antisocially they’re not fast cars, but they are big and ungainly…so as soon as some 23 year old with a 120 month loan on one come barreling down the road at me I get out of the way.
The damn things have nearly 1,000 pounds on my Kona N and I know which car is going to take the brunt of that impact. I’m slightly more okay with V6 Chargers since they’re just big sedans…but only under the condition that you don’t get the stupid GT package that gives them all the appearance bits from the V8 ones.
That shit is just so lame to me. I’ve even seen people put GT badges where the Hemi badge would go and there’s a V6 Charger in my area that has a ridiculous wrap that says MOPAR across the side. Pretty cringe, dawg.
But I can’t fault anyone for just buying a barebones one as a daily. It wouldn’t be my choice, but I do understand the value of a big sedan.
*MAGA Hillbilly walks into a Dodge Dealer*
Buyer: “I want one of them Rat Pack Chargers”
Dealer: “You can’t afford that model on your AutoZone cashier income – but here’s a Charger that looks almost exactly like the Rat Pack and we can add on some stripes and spoilers for you that will make it look faster – and we can finance you at $550/month for the rest of your life”
Buyer: “Well, that’s more than I’m paying in rent for my Mom’s Basement – Where do I sign?”
i thought we left this shit at jalopnik
Yeah, I get that there may be a contingent that drives them elsewhere that may not make the most responsible choices, lol.
Where I live, Chargers and Challengers are fairly rare, as RWD is very much not the preferred drivetrain layout. Now that I think of it practically everyone here seems to be elderly so it’s the opposite experience, you’re routinely stuck behind someone going 30 in a 45.
As for the uncool factor of the V6 engine in a car known for it’s V8, I daily a minivan. I could handle it.
The fuel economy is decent too, one of the few cars where its actually pretty easy to nail the EPA’s rating in the real world. Set the cruise control on the highway and 30mpg is very achievable. Not terrible for a pretty big, heavy, non-hybrid sedan and 3.6L.
It’s actually not far off from an EcoBoost Escape in daily use (which usually struggle to get anywhere close to EPA numbers)
The Charger really is a fairly practical car all things considered.
I’m a little weird, but I couldn’t even imagine buying a car with a V8, and all the fuel, insurance, and initial cost that brings. I have a pretty modest car history, and I’m pretty responsible with the way I enjoy the cars I drive/have driven. There shouldn’t be any shame in owning a car that’s just moderately quick, but is also something that looks good? I get there’s an uncool factor to driving something that looks like it writes checks it can’t cash, but I miss the days where there were tons of options for cars that looked good, but didn’t involve a massive outlay and insane maintenance costs.
Hell, even the Challenger is about as practical as you can get for a coupe – 5 passengers, sedan-sized back seat area, and a large trunk, plus a legit 30mpg highway. Also, typical overstuffed Big American Car seats and boulevard ride
“I couldn’t even imagine buying a car with a V8″
Agreed –
When I bought my last car, I was given the choice between a V6 or V8.
I’m glad I chose the former – it’s more than fast enough for me.
I like the V6s too, I’ve had them as rentals and thought they were pretty alright! I just did a quick check, rental spec V6 ones in my area are under MSRP! All other varieties seem to be over MSRP.
Other regions seem to have a lot more V6s than we do. But there are two SXTs not so far away in the 32k range. And they’re orange and an interesting light blue color!
At the same dealership you can spend 33k on what appears to be a base model Compass. I think I know what I would pick.
the 3.5 is not bad at all. I did get a 300 with 2.7 once and that thing was a dog.
Coincidentally, that’s the exact number of days left in my Doomsday calendar.
Stellantis bought out FCA what, 5 years ago? And they still haven’t figured out how to improve US sales and operations? What’s taking them so long??
Once the Hornet catches on, things will turn around.
Catches on what? Fire?
COTD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ferrari asperations.
The good news is they are finally running out of all that last time buy inventory of MB platform components.
Stellantis has more going for it than Nissan when it comes to competitive models, but most of that isn’t due to post-Stellantis actions. Jeep is always going to be Jeep – the Wrangler is in a class of it’s own in the minds of U.S. buyers.
Side note – the number of people I see on my commute (90%+ highway) driving Wranglers is insane. Those things have to have some of the worst highway road manners of any car I’ve driven. No idea how someone dailies that on a highway at 75+mph. I guess it serves as an arm workout trying to keep it in the lane.
Anyway, Dodge caters to certain groups of people that no one else really caters to anymore so they have that locked up. There aren’t many obtainable PHEV minivans out there so Chrysler has that locked up too. The Sienna is better but good luck getting one.
I’m wondering why they aren’t aggressively rebadging European hybrids to bring over here. Do they not have many that can be adapted? I don’t know enough about their offerings there.
I had a former colleague buy a Wrangler a few years ago. It seemed to make zero sense for her lifestyle. When I asked her if it was enjoyable to drive, or comfortable, she said, “No, it’s a Jeep.” 😮
IMO it was the advent of the 4-door Wrangler that did it. That hoodwinked people into thinking yeah, I could really live with this as a daily.
At the point, think of how rare it is to see a 2-door.
Not to mention the fuel economy, or lack of.
It’s not an arm workout with the overboosted power steering (meant for low speed rock crawling that a miniscule percentage of owners do with a $50k+ vehicle)
It is an attention workout, and you worry about your hearing with road noise and if you want to listen anything over the din (podcasts or audiobooks are worse than music because you want to hear each word)
Made me realize how poorly edited some of my favorites are cranking the volume up and down for the different hosts.
“The United States has a 477 day supply of ‘Murica”
Side note, I just saw my first Hornet. It’s nice but a little generic and from a distance the badge looks like “Honnet”.
That’ll put a bee in your honnet alright.
Stellantis should be flogging all the french CUVs they can federalize, is what. But as far as competetive products: Pacifica, Wrangler, 1500, HD pickups, Grand Cherokee, maybe the durango. The problem I have as someone who will be in the market soon is that I am used to Toyotas and moving to a Chrysler product for the PHEV gives me the reliability heebie-jeebies.
And it should. Their reliability is abysmal.
I’m pretty sure that the over-supply of the Charger/Challenger/300 are to sustain those Chrysler and Dodge dealers with inventory until their replacements have hit the market and have enough volume to satisfy the dealers. Even though production ended in Dec ’23, the Dodge replacements won’t be out until late this year. The supposed 300 replacement is only being shown in “concept” form tomorrow, so if the production model of that “concept” lags as much as the Charger Daytona is from the first showing of the concept, we won’t see it as a production model until well into 2025.
And it isn’t even going to be a direct 300 replacement, its going to be an EV crossover, just a replacement in the sense that it’s Chrysler’s new second model alongside the Pacifica
Agreed, i’m not hodling out for a sedan. However, in the latest Stellantis future plans powerpoint, the placeholder image for the Chrysler BEV does show the silhouette of a sedan and not a crossover…. so fingers crossed.
https://s3-prod.autonews.com/s3fs-public/styles/width_792/public/StellantisEVchart.jpg
Wonder how many of those Chargers are V6s. At least in my area anything with the 392 or Hellcat motors seemed to difficult to find (or at least way fewer and further between) as production wound down.
That’s what I’ve seen too. I visited a CDJR dealership two weeks ago and all the V6 Chargers and 300s had discounts, and there were almost 70 of them at just the one location I was at, but the four V8 versions (two 392 300s, one 392 Charger, one Hellcat Charger) were all marked up a minimum of $10k and two had “SOLD” stickers on them.
I would venture to say they might have purposely Overbuilt Charger and Challenger quantities to cover the failure to launch time frame of the 2 door only replacement for the two. Obviously a tarted up, overpriced Italian made pile of FWD/AWD SUV is not the target Demographic for the out going Charger lovers. I suppose it is possible some of them are actually waiting to see how much a Hurricane 6 version of the car previously known as all BEV will cost, but honestly the Challenger is/was still competitive in the pony car crowd and the Charger was still competitive in the affordable 4 door rwd sedan segment.
Those segments being nearly completely gone is why though.
I think I would say that the Pacifica minivan was/is pretty competitive, as is the Wrangler for whatever reasons as well.
Yeah, I’m going to say this is intentional- there’s going to be a long time gap before the new Charger is available, the new one is going to be coupe-only, even though the sedan was the volume seller vs the Challenger, and the rumors are about a $20,000 price bump across the board for the next one, so, something to sell in the meantime + maybe a little bit of extra inventory to overlap the new one for anyone looking for a sedan or getting sticker shock
Ram 700/Fiat Strada – The ute America needs but Stelly refuses to sell here.
This x1000
So with you on this.
Yes, but don’t use the Fiat Strada name in North America. https://www.theautopian.com/this-1979-review-of-the-fiat-strada-may-be-the-hilariously-saddest-car-review-ive-ever-seen/
I pointed this out the last time you used this data, but the Ram 2500 and 3500 numbers are highly questionable to say the least.
On cars dot com alone there are some 5,000 HDs for sale within 250 miles of me and they expect me to believe those are the only ones in the entire country?
To answer the actual question:
Pacifica, Wrangler, Ram 1500, JGC, Durango for as long as they still make it with the V8.
“America Has A 477-Day Supply Of Dodge Chargers”A couple more street takeovers in Stockton and this extra supply will dry up fast.
The Citröen C3 is kind of a shitbox, but it’s a cheap shitbox available in real colours and has at least 2 cupholders