Good morning! As of this writing, I have been awake for approximately thirty-nine hours. We came home to a blocked shower drain and a flooded basement, so I’ve spent the last two hours wet-vacuuming and sopping up water. I’m hungry, I’m exhausted, and all I want to do is go to bed, but I foolishly told everyone I would be back on the 10th when really I meant the 11th, and the Showdown must go on, so here I am.
I need to extend a huge and heartfelt thank you to Thomas, Mercedes, Stephen, and the Bishop for filling in for me; you all rose to the occasion magnificently, and I really appreciate it. Thank you all.
The last thing I want to see right now is another damn French car, but let’s look at yesterday’s results anyway:
Sixteen is more than five, so that makes sense, I guess. And I agree, based solely on the rarity factor. But the LeCar could be fun too, if driven properly.
But enough of croque monsieurs; it’s time for some good old-fashioned cheeseburgers. I’ve got two American cars here, from just about the geographical center of the lower 48 states. Let’s check them out so I can get some sleep.
1997 Ford F-150 – $2,295
Engine/drivetrain: 5.4 liter overhead cam V8, four-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Wichita, KS
Odometer reading: 137,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep
Here once again we have the divisive (is that “di-viss-ive,” or “di-vice-ive?”) tenth-generation Ford F-150. Arguably more refined, and indisputably less attractive (sorry, Matt) than the preceding generation, these trucks played a big role in the truckification of American roads, for better or for worse. Ford still sells F-series trucks at approximately the same rate that Taco Bell sells chalupas, which means there is no shortage of used ones available at any time, at any price point.
This one is an extended-cab XLT, which means it has all the car-like stuff you’d expect: power windows, air conditioning, all that jazz. It’s powered by Ford’s 5.4 liter Triton V8, but I think this is the early “good” one. It’s an automatic, of course, and two-wheel-drive. The lack of 4WD definitely hurts its appeal; while it’s true that most 4×4 truck owners (including me) rarely touch that lever or button to engage the front wheels, but when you need it, you need it, and buying a truck without it means there are all sorts of things you can’t do with it.
Thanks to the extended cab, however, there are lots of things you can do, like carry more than one passenger, and keep groceries dry. And of course, it will tow like any other truck.
It’s in decent shape, and the seller claims 137,000 miles (but states “odometer broken,” so who knows? It runs and drives well, and apart from a little rust in the corners, doesn’t even look terrible. For a good honest truck, with this few miles, at this price, it’s hard to beat.
1999 Chrysler Cirrus – $2,600
Engine/drivetrain: 2.5 liter overhead cam V6, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Colwich, KS
Odometer reading: 128,000 miles
Runs/drives? Indeed
Chrysler’s “cloud cars” – the Dodge Stratus and Chrysler Cirrus – arrived in 1995 to finally put an end to the K-Car’s reign of terror. They’re more refined, better handling, and a hell of a lot more stylish than the cars they replaced. This one is a Cirrus, powered by a Mitsubishi 2.5 liter V6 and Chrysler’s own Ultradrive four-speed automatic. It’s not exotic, but it works.
It’s said to run and drive well, and has had a bunch of recent work: the timing belt, ball joints, and thermostat are all new. Again, it has low miles, especially for the wide-open spaces of Kansas. This is a place where it was once said that “you can see on Wednesday who’s going to come visit you on Saturday.” There’s a lot of ground to cover.
It’s a weird detail to point out, but since the seller included a shot of the dashboard, I’ll mention it: I like the font on this car’s gauges. It’s a condensed form of Optima, if I’m not mistaken, and it’s a welcome change from the basic blocky Helvetica you typically see. It’s too bad the odometer and gear indicator are that green LED display; it looks jarring against the other classy gauge faces.
The seller says this would be a perfect first car, and I agree: it’s cheap, clean, basically reliable, and not the sort of car likely to get a young driver in any more trouble than they can get themselves into anyway. Of course, with this low mileage, it could also make someone a good cheap commuter for a number of years yet.
Neither of these are going to raise anyone’s pulse, I know, but they’re both good honest old cars, and sometimes that’s exactly what you need. So which flavor will it be – the overstyled truck, or the basic sedan?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
If I needed a truck, it would be for things too large or dirty to put in the back of my Sportwagen. Which means that Ford would be the perfect candidate for me. It’s already rough around the edges so scratches or dings wouldn’t matter. Neither do aesthetics for a basic work vehicle, although I don’t hate this style of F-150 as much as some folks.
Mind you, I live on about a fifth of an acre, and there’s nothing I’ve ever needed a truck for so far. The above is all hypothetical. The amount of stuff you can cram in that Sportwagen is impressive.
Jelly Bean all the way. Sure it isn’t the best looking truck on the road, made worse by the graphics that will undoubtedly leave some witness marks when removed, but it still has a lot of life left in it and it can be repaired with parts from the wrecking yard. Meanwhile the Cloud is at the end of its life and you won’t find many in the wrecking yards because the vast majority of them filtered through the wrecking yard years ago.
The most likely problem with the Bean’s odo is that one of the pins for the display has a bad solder joint. So when you hit a bump, it gets warmer, or colder and the display goes blank, or comes back on. It still racks up the miles so it is still accurate even if you can’t read it some, or most of the time. Easy 45 min fix.
The first few years of the space shuttle, or jelly bean, F150’s had traditional odometers and didnt go LED until 99. The only mechanical one I have seen that died was from moisture getting behind the dash from a leaking windshield seal (common problem) which rusted things up. This also drips right on the GEM module that controls the 4×4 and stuff. The 1997 GEM module is a one year only part and impossible to find.
It’s gotta be the Cirrus, a cared-for gem from the last good generation of Chrysler cars. That Ford is beat, one of the worst generations (styling and safety leave a lot to be desired), a bad spec, and in kinda bad shape.
I have never heard someone refer to 90’s Chrysler as the good generation. I’m genuinely curious to hear your thoughts on why?
The cloud cars and vans were award winners at the time, the then-new Ram was a game-changer for their ability to sell trucks, the OG Neon was another success, the Stealth/Sebring Coupe were decent, the LHs were successful, and the Dakota/Durango were good “right sized” trucks – pair that with the “grails” from Jeep as it coasted on institutional knowhow from the AMC buyout, and the cash being raked in by the company, it was their last gasp as a successful full-line carmaker before being swallowed and destroyed by Daimler, private equity, and post-Sergio Fiat.
Interesting. My experiences with 90’s Chryslers were all bad. I have the opposite opinion and think the merge with Benz was the best thing to happen to Chrysler. They finally got good suspensions, working transmissions and badly needed electronics that worked. The LX cars are built like tanks and are everywhere with 300K miles or more and the Hemi engine really made putting up with Dodges worthwhile.
No question the LX is a fantastic platform that went basically unchanged for 18 years and is arguably more appealing than it was at launch, but the FWD sedans, Durango, Dakota, Ram, compacts, and vans all got worse with Daimler involvement.
Brief editorial to add that our only Chrysler product, a ’98 Grand Cherokee V8 from before the merger, was indeed a basketcase, but I’m unsure how much was Chrysler’s famously indifferent build quality, and how much was that vehicle’s hard life.
I lived through 80’s products including Dodge Diplomats, Plymouth Horizons, Dodge Omni, multiple K cars followed by the 90’s that saw a Chrysler LHS, Dakota V8, Neon, and a few Rams in my family. Yes they were Dodge people. I cant make myself look back at any of them fondly.
Cirrus, too honest of an “old lady who recently passed away’s” car.
Both appear to be decent values for the money. I am somewhat concerned about the rust on the F150. It doesn’t look like a lot of rust, but there are multiple rust spots so I want to know what it looks like underneath. Assuming the rust you see is all there is, I would pick the F150 because of personal preference. I like trucks. It is also cheaper than the Chrysler.
I think the Chrysler is the better purchase, though. Chryslers of that era get a lot of hate but they were decent to drive and generally held up well. This particular vehicle looks well kept. It is a good purchase at $2600.
More importantly, extended cabs let you recline the driver’s seat. Most bench seats are factory set far too upright for my spine.
Anyways, I voted FISO
Even more importantly, you can carry dogs back there.
The real purpose for an extended cab, right here.
#notchrysler
I don’t care. I’ve been fooled before and it has always cost me. I’ve seen those diamond-star v6’s lunch themselves, too. It’s just pain for no thrills.
So I’m going with the Cirrus. The Triton is too much of a gamble and a non-working odometer is a no go. I would have voted against the Cirrus but it’s got the Mitsubishi V6. The 2.4 4 cylinder Chrysler engine had a knack for eating head gaskets. The Mitsu engine was way more reliable so Cirrus it is! Also, these cars handled like a dream, they cornered really well, and were super comfortable.
No gamble with the 2v 5.4, it is just barely broken-in at this point. The Odo is almost certainly a bad solder joint for the display and is a simple fix and will be telling the true total mileage.
The 10th generation F150 is not, and will not ever be, the best, F-series truck. However, it is my choice in this shit box showdown. I have use for a $2200 truck, cursed 5.4 and all. The Cirrua should be good transport for somebody but I really can’t see myself ever being desperate enough to buy one.
I had a 98 Cirrus. Changing the back three spark plugs required removing the intake manifold. Accessing the battery required removing the driver’s side wheel and wheel well liner. It was a good car for us until the main bearings turned into glitter in the oil pan at 165k miles, about six months after we paid it off. Never again, Chrysler. I’ll take the truck.
FYI the story I heard about why the battery was in the wheel well was because this was one of the first totally computer designed vehicles, and in that process they forgot to put a battery in it.
I’ve always liked the cloud cars more than I should, but a transverse V6 with a timing belt is fucking scary, so I voted for the truck.
Too bad the Cirrus wasn’t available with the I4 and 5-speed like the Stratus and Breeze were.
I know it’s not a Toyota, but that’s pretty much every Toyota V6.
Heck, that’s almost every imported transverse v6 from the late 90’s to early 10’s.
A lot of people are going to go F-150 because “truck” but the Chrysler is just way too nice not to pick. No rust, low miles, recent maintenance, and hell, it even comes with a half a tank of gas!
That Ford was somebody’s toy – that’s why the bull bar scars are on the hood and it’s 2WD. The crappy fiberglass running boards, the cheesy graphics, and the multiple rust spots makes it a pass for me.
the Cirrus is a perfect winter beater. the Ferd is at a buy here pay here lot it appears, it appears to be two repos away from when it first arrived at the lot and I suppose if it runs that says little about the 5.4 versus the later versions, but with just a one wheel peal and not a lot of redeeming qualities, I would definitely not risk my winter in that POS. Crack Pipe for sure.
The Ford can be sold near-instantaneously for a small profit if you just want to wait. It’s not that I would want it, but that it’s a better investment (as much as a cheap used car could be one)
The Cirrus is unlikely to do so.
I had a 1999 Cirrus with the 2.4. That motor was surprisingly torquey. It was reliable until it burst into flames, in front of a grooming shop, with two of my dogs in it. The dogs lived, but one had issues from smoke inhalation for quite a while afterwards.
Gotta be the Ford. I’ve never had one try to kill my pets.
WTH??
Damn! Glad to hear you & the pups got out basically ok, but that’s some scary shit right there!
I may be biased because I grew up at least partially in a 96 Plymouth Breeze (the more basic cloud car option) and have fond memories of it being a thoroughly decent car. And this one looks to be in good shape, while the truck looks tired.
To be fair the truck would probably be a solid workhorse too. This one is more nostalgia for me.
I can’t decide. The truck is a truck, and has room inside, but it is of the ugliest generation. The cloud car is just so… boring. I think it would make me depressed to drive it.
Easiest choice yet. Truck all day. Never buy a Chrysler of that era…
Ask Jason for advice on drain size needed for spaghetti so it won’t plug in the future.
I have always HATED the way the jellybean F-150’s looked. What a heinous looking thing they are. However, a few years ago I was given a ’99 with 200k miles on it, true mileage unknown because the odometer would randomly start and stop working, with instructions by the friend that gave it to me to send it to Valhalla because he needed it out of his driveway and he couldn’t bear to do it himself. Funny thing happened as I proceeded to beat the tar out of that rusty old thing. It just kept asking for more. I ended up fixing a few things on it and selling it off cheaply, because I knew it had some life left as somebody’s work truck. I found myself unable to take it out back and needlessly shoot the dern thing. It was a 5.4 2wd truck as well.
So with that said, jellybean me son!
Why do truck rust so much worse than cars? I have to think manufacturers just don’t or didn’t care. Anyway, I will take the truck, and I am not really a truck guy. I test drove a cloud car when they were new, interior bits didn’t really meet up and had foam peeking out from under the vinyl, just seemed very poorly built and finished. Will take the truck, am biased against the Cirrus.
Trucks tend to be taken into shittier environments and washed a lot less. Lots of rocks hitting paintwork, lots of scrapes in the bed, lots of generally unkind things happening to the bodywork.
I’ll take the better condition clown…. er cloud car. I fully expect the F-150 to win though.
I voted truck. Yeah, there’s some rust, but cheesy graphics aside, it looks like a solid buy.
Are you kidding? The cheesy graphics are the only thing this tumor shaped truck has going for it!
The Cirrus was a criminally underrated midsize car. We owned a 1996 with the V6 engine, basically like this one. It had a lot of room inside, even in the backseat, drove well, handled well, had no mechanical issues and was basically just a decent car in all respects. The fact that this one is low miles with no rust– it’s a keeper.
A boring, ordinary (except maybe for the design, which is okay) car versus a decent pick-’em-up that looks as if it was abused?
I’ll take the car. It looks to have almost 3/4 of a full tank of fuel, which explains why it’s more expensive.
Re the cloud car lineup, don’t forget the least popular Plymouth Breeze! I was always vaguely disappointed it wasn’t the Plymouth Nimbus or similar…
Chrysler for me. I always liked the cab-forward thing of that era. And I’m a big fan of cool gauges, and these nicely match the car IMO. Later replacements for this segment would get way too faux-luxury ones (about when Chrysler went to that ’30s style art deco logo treatment), but these nicely fit the aspirational-but-not-obsessive-about-it vibe of the car.
I thought the Breeze blew away the other cloud cars…
My mom had a 2000 LHS, that thing was comfy. I’ll take the comfy Chrysler over a beat up old truck any day.
The Cirrus is a solid value but in terms of emotion just meh to me. On the other hand, at the time I liked the LHS perhaps more than I should. It was large, comfy, and I thought a pretty successful iteration of the jellybean design popular during that era.