This episode of The Morning Dump will take us on a tour around the world, albeit one skewed toward the Pacific as we look at the success and failure of a whole crop of new automakers.
As the headline and photo should make clear, the English-speaking nation that has seen a big increase in the popularity of Chinese cars in Australia. Why? To some extent, you can blame American automakers and the government.
It’s a wonderful thing to live in a country where we can report critically and honestly on the performance of an automaker like VinFast. That may not be the case in Vietnam, where one VinFast critic has gone missing after being apprehended by the government. Our friends at TechCrunch have a big report on some embarrassing problems at Fisker. Thankfully, there’s a low risk of them being tossed in jail.
And, finally, we go back to Asia where Toyota is tossing Daihatsu’s leadership in the rubbish bin after all the lying.
Trade Rules Everything Around Me (TREAM)
Sales numbers are in for our friends in Australia, and it’s becoming clear that Chinese automakers are continuing to gain a foothold in the country.
In particular, MG (now owned by SAIC) is doing extremely well, selling the most popular sub-$30K (Aus) vehicle in the MG 3, the most popular small car in the MG 4 hatchback, and the most popular cheap SUV in the MG ZS. SAIC also owns automaker LDV, whose Mifa van is also popular.
SAIC isn’t alone, BYD is outselling Tesla according to Drive.com.au, and both MG and GWM are now in the top ten automotive brands in the country. GWM grew a whopping 25% year-over-year and managed to outsell Subaru.
So what’s happening here?
First, there’s the obvious: Chinese cars are now generally on par with other automakers in terms of design, equipment, and safety. When it comes to electric vehicles, which many of these are, Chinese cars often have an edge in terms of performance and available features.
The huge price advantage is also clearly a contributing factor, as an MG ZS, for instance, costs about $24,000 AUD (or $15.5k USD) and comes with Apple CarPlay, parking sensors, and about everything you need in a basic car. The next most popular car in the segment, the Hyundai Kona, starts at around $36,000 AUD (or $24,000 USD).
Those reasons only tell part of the story.
What really happened in Australia, and what hasn’t happened in a lot of the rest of the world, is that Australia gave up on having a domestic car industry. When you have a domestic industry you do a lot to protect it, which includes putting tariffs in place and other measures to restrict imports.
Why doesn’t Australia have a domestic car industry? Why are the utes dead? Why does Holden no longer exist?
It’s fairly simple economics. The Australian car market was no longer big enough to support domestic production and the industry was no longer efficient enough, so it had been propped up for years by government subsidies, which kept thousands of people employed but cost the average taxpayer a lot. There’s a great write-up in Road & Track that goes through the history:
And now Treasurer Joe Hockey was done playing nice. Nostrils flared, finger jabbing the lectern, he leaned into the microphone and made the government’s case. If Holden wanted another dime, Australia needed to know whether the company was in it for the long haul.
“Either you’re here,” he said, “or you’re not.”
The next day, he had his answer. On December 11, 2013, GM announced that Holden would cease production in Australia by the end of 2017. Two months later, Toyota, which had a plant in suburban Melbourne, confirmed it was leaving, too.
And so the winding down began. Factories closed. Employees were laid off. Suppliers pivoted, looking for customers in a manufacturing sector that now barely existed. In early 2020, GM announced it was axing the Holden brand altogether. The news came more as a mercy than a surprise. Australia’s oldest carmaker was dead, as was the country’s auto industry.
By and large, protectionism is what’s keeping Chinese automakers from dramatically expanding in a lot of markets, but what’s the use of protectionism when you no longer have something to protect?
At that point, as a government committed to reducing global warming (especially after the massive wildfires at the start of the decade), it made sense to let the cheap EVs flow into the country and have those savings get passed down to consumers.
There are also benefits when it comes to normalizing trade, as China is an important trade partner for Australia and has been lately dropping barriers to items such as Australian hay. Chinese cows get delicious Australian chaff and Australians get MGs. Everyone wins.
Did VinFast Cause A Critic To Get Detained By Police?
When we drove the VF 8 electric crossover from Vietnamese automaker VinFast we experienced a lot of problems, which ended up being common among other journalists.
Nothing happened to those journalists other than they got a good story and likely irked a few PR people.
Things might be different in Vietnam, where a teacher named Sonni Tran made it his mission to point out the many issues surrounding VinFast and its parent company Vingroup in Vietnam.
I suggest you read this feature from Kevin Williams over at InsideEVs that details the sudden disappearance of Tran and the potential involvement, whether directly or indirectly, of the automaker.
“Need to find missing person!!”, a user exclaimed on Reddit, asking for help in searching for Tran. A translation of the post reads: “This morning, we had an appointment to go out for coffee together, but after contacting them again, [he] had disappeared since 7 a.m. and no one knew where… the safety of [Sonnie’s] life is currently the most fragile issue at present.”
Not long after, they made a harrowing claim: three plainclothes police officers allegedly abducted Tran at a coffee shop in broad daylight. According to sources with direct knowledge of the situation—including sources whose identities are being withheld by InsideEVs to protect them from potential retribution—the investigation that resulted was due to Tran’s criticism of VinFast, as he may have run afoul of a broadly defined Vietnamese law critics say is designed to stifle speech against the country or its interests. Subsequently, his phone and computer were confiscated by police during his arrest. (The Vietnamese edition of Voice of America initially reported the news of Tran’s detainment.)
Furthermore, a Vietnamese court document seen by InsideEVs confirmed that Tran—and another person close to him, a detail that has not been previously reported—was summoned to speak with the Ministry of Public Security “to respond to some content related to Vingroup’s complaint.”
It’s not entirely clear that VinFast was the main reason why Tran was detained as he was also a critic of the government, but it seems quite possible given the reporting here. InsideEVs attempted to get a comment from VinFast a few times, ending with this statement:
“According to Vietnamese law, individuals and organizations have the right to file complaints against entities that abuse freedom of speech to tarnish the reputation and honor of others. The relevant authorities were responsible for accepting and resolving such matters. We subsequently decided to no longer pursue the issue,” a VinFast official said, later confirming they were referring to Tran’s case.
More Troubles At Fisker
VinFast isn’t the only upstart electric automaker facing issues with its products. The ongoing troubles at Fisker continue with an embarrassing report from TechCrunch that indicates both frequent vehicle issues and a slow response to complaints from its small number of owners.
The day had started on a celebratory note. Fisker, donning a graphic tee depicting the electric Ocean SUV, hugged and posed for photos with the company’s first customers — at one point even signing one of the vehicles.
What happened next was a harbinger for Fisker and what his eponymous company continues to grapple with: Shortly after Fisker board member Wendy Greuel took delivery, her Ocean SUV lost power on a public road, according to two employees familiar with the matter. The company has confirmed the incident occurred, and said the issue with her vehicle was fixed.
There’s a lot more in the report, but it shows a wide range of unnerving issues including with the vehicle’s brakes, locks, and power systems:
Another owner reported to NHTSA that on January 2 they had been repeatedly locked inside their Ocean, and says they “put numerous service tickets in with no response from Fisker.”
“[W]e’ve been locked in the car numerous times and are afraid to drive anywhere not knowing if we can get out in a timely manner,” the owner wrote.
This is not a great look.
Daihatsu Charade Claims Execs As Toyota Admits It Overstressed Company
The massive safety testing scandal at Toyota’s subsidiary company, which we’re calling the Daihatsu Charade, has claimed the top executives of the company. Not only are Daihatsu’s Chairman Sunao Matsubayashi and President Soichiro Okudaira being forced to resign, but the entire position of Chairman is being abolished as Toyota takes firmer control of the company.
The new President of the company will be Masahiro Inoue, who is currently in charge of Toyota’s Latin American operations.
As part of the overhaul, Toyota will refocus Daihatsu’s business on minicars and outsource some of its overseas operations to partner companies. The overall idea is to relieve the pressure for growth that overstretched the company’s development and production resources.
“The rapid expansion of the company caused distortion that was not properly absorbed by the company,” Inoue said of the minicar maker’s problems. “I aim to rebuild Daihatsu.”
This is a positive development because, you know, we really like Daihatsu’s cars.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
The first and, maybe, only Plains record is fantastic. “I Walked with You a Ways” is one of my favorite folk country albums of all time, due in no small part to this song, which made me tear up the first dozen or so times I listened to it. Also Beyonce has a country album coming out. Good country music is back, y’all!
The Big Question
Are there any Chinese cars you’re excited about? Any you’d be interested in buying if they came to the United States?
Well duh Chinese cars are cheaper. Even the stupid tariffs and shit we have in the US won’t scare China off at all. They can undercut ANYBODY,. and they are NOT afraid to play dirty. They need to sell something cheap over here. A brand new car for 10k. An EV under 20k.They can do it.
There is no reason Ford and GM couldn’t have sold Australian cars over here. The Falcon would’ve made for a great Panther replacement, and GM should’ve embraced the Commodore platform more. We could’ve gotten a new El Camino and Ranchero, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, GM was too busy sabotaging the Caprice and even got ANGRY at a dealer that DARED sell a Caprice to a retail customer. LOL WTF do you actually want people to buy your cars or not?
You know Elon Musk wishes he could do what Vinfast did to that critic.
I still trust Daihatsu more than I trust any American car company LOL
We need protectionist policy to prevent our Free Market from being invaded by Communist!
Also, Lynk&Co. Horrible name, mildly interesting products. Probably won’t run out and buy one. Might think about.
I prefer Lynk& Park myself. I still feel like there’s something special about Reanimation.
They have reliability problems though. Park too close to a Ford Edge and it’s about to break.
You’ve got to remember that some industries are required for national security (to be able to scale up production in event of war or major infrastructure disaster). Manufacturers pivoted to the war effort in WWII, etc….the reason we need to keep some things protected and within the country. Free market to an extent and it sucks we have to be like this but wild word out there.
I’m honestly a bit worried we’re getting slowly get sold out behind the scenes and will get put in a situation where a critical piece of manufacturing ends up being owned by a foreign company and well, that’s going to be an interesting situation. Look up the recent sale/attempt of U.S Steel to see a bit of that.
“Oh, what is that you’re driving?”
“It’s a new Link&Co.”
“Oh? A new Lincoln, eh? Is that the tarted-up Escape? Or the tarted-up Edge? I can never remember the names of Lincolns because they often start with letters other than E or F.”
“No no no, it’s a Link&Co. 01”
“…”
“It’s kinda like a Volvo”
“Oh, yeah? But I thought Ford sold off Volvo? What are they doing making a Lincoln?”
Lynk&Co is basically a Volvo / Polestar EV rebadged. I think what they have in general is Google Automotive.. which is miles away better than big 3s.
The Nio ET5 wagon looks pretty sweet.
I wish I could buy a simple EV sedan here like the BYD Seal.
Does the Volvo EX30 count? Never thought I would consider a Chinese built car, but they seem to be the only company making a car I’m interested in.
I have no interest in any Chinese car whatsoever, and would never buy or own one even if it was given to me.
And yes I know where my iPhone came from. But I still have a little more trust in Apple than the tech and security in a Chinese car. Let alone their differences in safety standards and material quality, labor, material sourcing, etc…
There are some Chinese cars I’d buy in half a heartbeat: Arrma Kraton, Redcat Gen9, or a Associated buggy. Oh wait, real cars, not brushless RC cars. Never mind, nothing there interests me.
I worked with Karma a few years back (the company I worked for was supplying them a few parts). I mean…it was fascinating. Just a complete joke in every way…I felt bad for everyone who got caught up in that mess.
Feel bad for anyone who bought a Fisker, but if you’re buying from a start-up automaker you better expect the worst and hope for anything better than that.
I’ve done business with start ups that don’t know how to operate in a global manufacturing environment. It’s wild. Minor details like how to move components from one place to another are overlooked because START UP! EXCITING! MOVING FAST! BREAKING
THINGSEXPORT CONTROL LAWS!What surprised me is Fisker now has Magna behind them. Karma I can understand, trying to be a startup is hard.
I think Fisker is just a bad business person, should have stuck with a large manufacturer instead of going out on his own.
I had the same thought re: Magna…that decision seemed surprisingly smart. Sorta surprised things have went sideways so quick, but I don’t fully know or understand how that relationship works.
I really like Diahatsu, and I hope they don’t get the chop (I doubt they will). But that headline was gold.
Because not enough things in Australia are likely to kill or maim you so they need some more
FFS. You should NOT be able to get locked inside your goddamn car because of some stupid software glitch. At least one door ought to have a lever connected to a something, connected to the locking pawl, so when you pull it THE DOOR OPENS.
That is all.
BuT ItS tHe FutUre! Foolproof mechanicals that can be readily repaired or at least rigged to operate at substandard levels in an emergency are so old fashioned! Everything is about safety, that’s why cars nag you about everything no matter how obvious or insignificant or how the alerts could trigger an overreaction by the driver (maybe operator is more appropriate today), why every component goes through the computers so minor failures like a bad tail light can cause cascade problems that brick the car, everything is controlled through a touch screen that requires attention away from operating the vehicle, and cars are larger and heavier with less interior space in order to protect us in a crash against all the other overweight vehicles. So what if reliability is garbage and even simple things cannot be readily DIY fixed and long term parts repairability and availability is extremely suspect in spite of EVs being sold as more reliable for having less parts to break and greater theoretical reliability of those parts, or outward visibility is trash and higher hoods lead to greater damage to pedestrians, cyclists, and even peoples’ own kids in their driveways?
Mechanical backups should be legally required. It’s my same gripe with the electric steering setups that have no actual shaft connected to the rack.. I’m not taking that damn chance.
I’m anxiously awaiting the first Temu car, so I can drive like a billionaire.
COTD
Hmmm, “Australian Hay” might be why Burger King’s beef tastes so different.
“Australian Hay” is also a guy named Colin.
(Colin Hay, singer for the band Men At Work)
His head’s full of zombie
That’s Hungry Jack’s to you, mate.
Um, that’s pancakes.
Not in Oz: https://www.hungryjacks.com.au/home
I guess I can understand why they wouldn’t use the whole “king” thing.
It’s been about a week since I last mentioned that I still want a Jianhua JH6620 24V3000. I still want a Jianhua JH6620 24V3000.
With a catchy model name like that, who wouldn’t?!?
The only real drawback is that it’s too long to fit on a vanity plate.
I can’t imagine there are many of those left. Get on it! Have the only one in your country!
MariJianhua? Sounds good to me!
-Cheech and Chong
I had never heard Plains before, but they are excellent. Who knew you could find new music to listen to on a car site?
I will not be purchasing any Chinese vehicles. I think buying a Chinese vehicle now would be like buying a VW in 1938.
CF Moto is making headway here in the US and Moto Morini is being advertised using US Motorcycle influencers? Are the Chinese motorcycles doing well down there?
I’d like to ride a CF Moto.
Me too and I have a dealer by me, maybe I should see if they have demo bike trailer.
“Daihatsu Charade Claims Execs As Toyota Admits It Overstressed Company”
I’d like to applaud whomever wrote that headline.
“Headline” might be generous. Hm, so might “wrote.” But the marsupial is cute!
I’d like to applaud whichever of the 1000 monkeys randomly generated those keystrokes?
It’s kind of nuts to me that anybody ever named a car “an absurd pretense intended to create a pleasant or respectable appearance.”
I see what you did there
Not yet have I seen a Chinese Market Car that really makes me want one. some are arguably nice enough looking, but all seem to be very underwhelming on drivetrain power and perceived reliability. That is not to say that if they were allowed in the US, they could not or would not go the direction of other Asian offerings and start catering to us. I recall growing up in a world where made in Japan was a bad thing and in the 90’s Korean Cars were a bad joke. I have no illusions that with low rent nearly slave labor offsetting the costs of the tech they clearly already make for us, the Chinese cars could very easily become a big thing in the US. Though I suspect they will come in the back door through Buick and other struggling US marques like they already kind of do.
I would argue by the stacks of serious recalls, CA suits, TSBs, poor dealer reputations, and so on that Korean cars are still a bad joke.
I mean, so are American cars by those metrics.
I’d still take an F-150 over any Korean vehicle. I don’t have delusions of F-150 quality, but at least dealing with the dealer for the purchase and service will be less murder inducing.
I am glad that your Ford dealer is substantially better than mine.
That probably ain’t saying much, but at least I’d have a pick of Ford dealers around me. The area has only two Korean nameplace dealers within an hour’s drive. People consider them a choice between worse and the worst. “Bad” isn’t a starting point.
There is one small Hyundai dealer 45 minutes away, but they are…..well, something else.
Some of my neighbors have had good experiences with Hyundai/Kia (in spite of a few warrantied engine failures) and others not so much. I keep thinking the K5 in faster trim would be great, but maybe I’ve seen too much over the decades from those manufacturers. They’ve come a long way, but surpassing Ford would only be a starting point.
I think I’m still bitter on behalf of a friend who bought a Mustang with some rear end problems they knew about and yet still aggressively refused to fix. Took him months and many threats.
Here the Hyundai guys range from “pretty good” to “part of a famously bad dealership group.” Kia has been consistently okay.
My local Kia dealer is also my local Ford dealer. No complaints, really, but I don’t have much frame of reference because my wife’s Stinger is the only car I’ve bought new off a dealer lot in about 20 years…
I won’t try to argue they’re up to Toyota standards, but I vividly remember the days that it was not at all uncommon to see a 2yo Hyundai with an oily bumper above the exhaust. My bil & I used to play a game in which you name a common symptom & the other guesses the car: “Big 3 truck with daytime running light out?” “Silverado”. I didn’t get past, “Late-model foreign with oily…” before he had it. They have come a long way.
I have been hearing that they’re “not the same Hyundai from 5 years ago” for about 25 years now. No, they’re the same, they learned to hide the failures in a less obvious junk package. At least back then, they were significantly cheaper. Their long, continuing string of massive failures in major drivetrain parts to this day says more than I can.
Honestly, ‘snot much different from domestic companies.
Thanks for the tip on Plains. From your daily posts I get the impression we have similar tastes in female-led music.
Yes, 1000%
^^^ see above ^^^ I think you’ll dig it.
Also, if you like Plains, check out Waxahatchee bc Katie and Jess are in that band as well!
You should stream the local indy Nashville radio station Lightning 100. They break a lot of artists out to into the world and devote over 30% of airplay to local artists (many many female-fronted acts – the kind that don’t get any play through the other channels).
As a matter of fact, they are launching their annual battle-of-the bands, “music city mayhem” shortly where 32 unsigned unknowns are pitted against each other over the course of a few weeks. The bands are always bonkers good. It’s unbelievable the amount of talent in this town.
lightning100.com
BYD Seagull
It’s cheaper than any car sold in the USA(even ICE ones) and it has acceptable range.
As I’ve stated here before, I wouldn’t take any Chinese car for free.
You can call me naive or out of touch or whatever, but I try to limit what I buy from our enemies when possible (I realize it isn’t always possible) and I’m not in a financial position where saving a few thousand bucks on a large asset of dubious quality makes sense to me. I’d rather buy something made here or built in a closely allied country that I know is built to high standards.
Plus, Chinese manufacturers have a record of making goods at artificially low prices to drive out all the competition and once they dominate the market, start ratcheting up prices, limit supply, use that market to strong arm another market, and other stuff of the sort. The short term gain of saving a few grand isn’t worth the long term pain of becoming beholden to them in yet another market.
One might even say the Communists are better at being capitalists than we are.
It’s almost like they’re communist in name only and are essentially running the same economic system we do but with even less rules, regulations, and regard for human life
If we devoted every counter cyber attack personnel the U.S. has strictly to China, they outnumber us 50-1.
Congressonal hearing two weeks ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxaFzn9RB5c
Not so much less rules and regulation, just different rules and regulations. Never forget Social Credit!
Their ability to control with minimal dissent all aspects of the market and make a truly national push into certain markets is impressive, and a function of their political system.
How the next 10 years plays out as China grapples with its own issues vs what a lot of the world sees as an American democracy teetering on the brink will be interesting/terrifying/insert word of choice.
Disclaimer: Australian who loves democracy, but recognises its flaws and limitations.
I try not to make blanket statements because my life has had ups&downs, but I know driving a Chinese car would bother me every time wondering if the workers had the freedom to leave their barracks. I will do my utmost to avoid being in that situation.
I really like some Chinese cars, I’m just afraid if I buy one, I’m going to want another in a couple of hours.
BOO THIS MAN!! BOOOOO!!!
As it craps out of course.
Ok, maybe I’m just old—but that’s right funny
COTD? —assuming someone a generation younger doesn’t consider it racist
Someone on the old German lighting site described the Ocean as an “Artisanal EV” and I’ve been laughing about it ever since. Unfortunately these are the risks you run buying a beta product from a start up or similar type of company. Stuff is going to go wrong, support is going to be inconsistent, and you just don’t really know what you’re getting into.
Henrik Fisker also has a history of this. The Karma was an abject disaster and I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest that he may not be the most ethical individual or someone you can expect to have their ducks in a row if you choose to do business with them. I’d stop short of calling the Ocean a scam, but it was certainly rushed to market by a company run by a guy who’s not particularly great at making cars. He sure can design them though, I’ll give him that.
If you’re going to be an early adopter you should expect to experience the challenges that come along with it. These cars are as much tech projects as they are automotive ones…and you’re going to get the results of the bro’d out “move fast, break shit, ask questions later” attitude that’s pervasive in that often toxic industry.
Anyway, I think all of these potential orphan EVs are going to present serious career opportunities in the future. I’d imagine that being able to work on them and keep them on the road long after the manufacturers die off will be a very lucrative business. If I was getting ready to start my career right now that would be something I’d be thinking long and hard about.
The Karma failed really because of the financial collapse. Magna is building this car so its not like Henrik is out there with a wrench. It’s a shame because it’s a nice-looking BEV with some great ideas.
Oh I think it looks absolutely fantastic and it’s very appealing on paper.
I agree. These cars have to be essentially sought out by the customer. Your average person doesn’t know Fisker exists and can’t and won’t roll the dice on a more expensive vehicle from an unproven (or proven as a failure) automaker, so anyone getting them should fully expect issues of this sort. Not to say they shouldn’t be repaired, but to expect something along the lines of a legacy automaker with a decent reputation would be stupid.
All the big makers had missteps with their BEVs, some reported widely and others barely making a splash in the news that were on par with these issues. The difference is where you take your vehicle for repairs. I do agree that buyers know what they are getting into with Fisker right now. I just hope they can pull it together and grow.
This will likely affect their karma.
I’d by an Ora Funky Cat just for the name
The United States should keep tariffs on all Chinese cars except those with Cat in their name.
Dan Manwich 2024!
They’re changing the name to the Ora 03! So sad.
There should be a list of well-named cars, like the BYD Destroyer
Good username/comment synergy
I mean, you could buy almost any Ora. They had the Funky Cat, the White Cat, the Black Cat, The Cherry Cat, the Lightning Cat, and the Ballet Cat, to name a few.
Believe me, I made sure there was no Angry Cat.