Good morning! We’re still on the road, in western Iowa as I write this. We just had a wonderful dinner with some old friends who live nearby, and now I’ve got another pair of cars chosen by the greatest co-pilot of all time.
Yesterday, we looked at trucks from two different eras, and from the sounds of it, there wasn’t much middle ground. You were all firmly on one side, or the other. It seemed to be a matter of whether you wanted a truck for work, or play. The Chevy took home a pretty sizeable win, but even among its fans, there was concern about the rust. And yeah, it’s rough, but it’s also all fixable if you’re willing and able to do so.
I already have a good workhorse truck, and I already know I don’t like driving a full-size truck every day, so the Ford has nothing to offer me. A short-wheelbase stepside 4×4, on the other hand, is like a Tonka toy writ large, and I am powerless to resist such a thing if given the opportunity.
Today is all about just finding something cheap that runs and drives, and we’ve got two decent candidates. They’re both old, both red, and both two grand or less. One is a minivan and one is a two-door compact; you wouldn’t ordinarily cross-shop these two, but when it comes to cheap cars, body style doesn’t matter much. It’s more about condition, and probability of future reliability. Let’s see which one of these transportation thrifties fits the bill better.
2003 Honda Odyssey – $2,000
Engine/drivetrain: 3.5 liter overhead cam V6, five-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Council Bluffs, IA
Odometer reading: 240,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Old minivans are sort of a cheat code when it comes to cheap used cars. They’re not considered cool, and no one wants them for family duty anymore, so the values drop like a rock. But they’ll do almost everything a truck can do, and in essentially the same comfort as a car. What’s not to like?
Honda’s second-generation Odyssey is a prime example. Powered by a nice healthy V6 and stuffed full of comfy seats and power toys, these vans would seem to be the ideal cheap used car. Unfortunately, they have a very un-Honda-like Achilles heel: The transmission is made of hopes and dreams. Almost all of them need a new transmission eventually. This one was rebuilt before the seller bought it, and it shifts fine – for now.
Otherwise, it looks like it’s in good shape, especially for 240,000 miles. The interior isn’t trashed, as minivan interiors sometimes are, and it’s a fancy model with leather seats, and probably the power sliding doors as well. The seller does state that it “might need a new battery,” which in my experience means the battery is done for. Just replace it; it’s cheap insurance.
Outside, it’s more or less straight, and looks rust-free, though as with any Midwest vehicle, it’s worth a look underneath. But some peeling clearcoat and a few dings and scrapes seem to be its biggest faults.
2003 Pontiac Sunfire – $1,900
Engine/drivetrain: 2.2-liter dual overhead cam inline 4, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Des Moines, IA
Odometer reading: 165,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Here we have one of those cars that nobody loved, but sold like hotcakes anyway: the General Motors J platform. For twenty-three years, GM churned out these cheap little runabouts in a rainbow of flavors, across five different marques. They never were anything but competent and durable transportation at a bargain price, but considering the new car market these days, that sounds like a wonderful thing.
This Pontiac Sunfire comes from late in the J car’s run, long after Buick, Oldsmobile, and Cadillac had dropped their variants, leaving only Pontiac and Chevrolet. Old as the platform was, GM kept refining and improving it, right up until the end. In place of the durable but thrashy “122” overhead valve engine of earlier Sunfires and Cavaliers, this later model features GM’s Ecotec twin-cam four, along with – get this – a four-speed automatic. Fan-cy.
It runs and drives well, according to the seller, and “all the lights work,” which may not seem like a big deal, but I don’t think I’ve ever bought a cheap used car that didn’t need a handful of light bulbs replaced. As faint praise goes, I’ll take it. The driver’s seat has a cover on it, but the seller says there are no rips in it. I’ll believe it when I see it.
The exterior seems to be shedding clearcoat, but that’s not uncommon. I’m not sure why a solid non-metallic red has a clearcoat on it in the first place; if it wasn’t there, you could probably polish it up and it would look fine. As it is, you’ll have to live with it looking scruffy. At least it has those sweet three-spoke wheels.
To me, honestly, these both look like serviceable cheap used cars. One is nicer but a little more of a gamble mechanically, and the other is a cheap throwaway car in better-than-average condition. One is more practical, but the other probably gets a hell of a lot better gas mileage. You’ve got $2,000 to spend on a car. Which way are you leaning?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
These ate cars you buy (steal?) to use in a bank robbery to get more money to buy a better car.
Sunfire:
Pros- small, maneuverable, probably won’t catastrophically fail during the getaway, not as much vehicle to burn to destroy evidence
Cons- tougher to get into and out of, not fast AT ALL, so don’t get in a chase, also probably easy to PIT maneuver.
Odyssey:
Pros- will blend right into traffic, fairly heavy, so if you are spotted, you can ram the cop car right back, sits pretty high up for good visibility watching for the po-po, lots of room if you decide to bring a team.
Cons- that transmission WILL sh1t the bed at the worst possible time, your team assembling montage will never look as cool as Ocean’s 11.
Verdict: Sunfire. I don’t want to share my haul, and to get away, the vehicle needs to get you away.
Nice write up! The Odyssey has the advantage that the police will never believe that it was involved in a crime. If the witness says red Honda Odyssey the dispatcher’s brain will autocorrect it to something else.
These ate cars you buy (steal?) to use in a bank robbery to get more money to buy a better car.
Sunfire:
Pros- small, maneuverable, probably won’t catastrophically fail during the getaway, not as much vehicle to burn to destroy evidence
Cons- tougher to get into and out of, not fast AT ALL, so don’t get in a chase, also probably easy to PIT maneuver.
Odyssey:
Pros- will blend right into traffic, fairly heavy, so if you are spotted, you can ram the cop car right back, sits pretty high up for good visibility watching for the po-po, lots of room if you decide to bring a team.
Cons- that transmission WILL sh1t the bed at the worst possible time, your team assembling montage will never look as cool as Ocean’s 11.
Verdict: Sunfire. I don’t want to share my haul, and to get away, the vehicle needs to get you away.
Nice write up! The Odyssey has the advantage that the police will never believe that it was involved in a crime. If the witness says red Honda Odyssey the dispatcher’s brain will autocorrect it to something else.
Just say no to J-bodies. Honda all the way.
Just say no to J-bodies. Honda all the way.
My parents owned that era of Oddessey and it was an excellent hauler. The SunFerrari in automatic trim does not spark joy.
So pop up two fingers and make a fist with the other hand, cause you’re getting the minivan.
My parents owned that era of Oddessey and it was an excellent hauler. The SunFerrari in automatic trim does not spark joy.
So pop up two fingers and make a fist with the other hand, cause you’re getting the minivan.
Having experience with both, barely made it past the lead photo before running to the Odyssey.
Went back, read the article, still 100% Odyssey.
Automatic J-Body, no thank you.
Having experience with both, barely made it past the lead photo before running to the Odyssey.
Went back, read the article, still 100% Odyssey.
Automatic J-Body, no thank you.
The Honda will serve you well, knowing most people who’ve owned one of that vintage easily get 15++ years out of them.
That Sunfire is a no. It was shite when new, it’s shite when used. It was poorly built from day 1. It’s only saving grace is that it’s cheap to fix, parts are plentiful, and reasonably easy to work on.
I’d consider an old Sunfire convertible, though, as a summer runabout.
The Honda will serve you well, knowing most people who’ve owned one of that vintage easily get 15++ years out of them.
That Sunfire is a no. It was shite when new, it’s shite when used. It was poorly built from day 1. It’s only saving grace is that it’s cheap to fix, parts are plentiful, and reasonably easy to work on.
I’d consider an old Sunfire convertible, though, as a summer runabout.
I pick the Sunfire, if it’s not rusted out it will be fine and anything that may occur is cheap to fix. Potential running costs greater than the price of admission kills the initially more appealing Honda as a choice for me.
A cheap vehicle should remain cheap throughout its remaining life of what? Maybe a couple of years.
I pick the Sunfire, if it’s not rusted out it will be fine and anything that may occur is cheap to fix. Potential running costs greater than the price of admission kills the initially more appealing Honda as a choice for me.
A cheap vehicle should remain cheap throughout its remaining life of what? Maybe a couple of years.
With the Honda you’ll look like the wife of a drug lord’s chief consultant. With the Pontiac you’ll look like a street manager of his Meth Division.
Go for the Honda, you’ll have less chances to get shot.
With the Honda you’ll look like the wife of a drug lord’s chief consultant. With the Pontiac you’ll look like a street manager of his Meth Division.
Go for the Honda, you’ll have less chances to get shot.
Had a Honda van and it was a gas,
Soon turned out, had a heart of glass
The poncho’s a prize, only if blind,
But lack of rust, makes it a find
Had a Honda van and it was a gas,
Soon turned out, had a heart of glass
The poncho’s a prize, only if blind,
But lack of rust, makes it a find
The Sunfire is objectively mediocre, but I have already replaced a transmission on a Honda product of this vintage and I have no interest in appearing in a sequel.
Maybe Mercedes would help me turn it into a Gambler runner?
The Sunfire is objectively mediocre, but I have already replaced a transmission on a Honda product of this vintage and I have no interest in appearing in a sequel.
Maybe Mercedes would help me turn it into a Gambler runner?
At least the Honda can be a hauler. I think I’d do exactly that. Remove all the rear seats and use it for the Menards runs
At least the Honda can be a hauler. I think I’d do exactly that. Remove all the rear seats and use it for the Menards runs
That is the least rusted-out Sunfire I have seen in a VERY long time. That Ecotec will run pretty much forever with a bit of maintenance (although it may be due for a timing belt soon if it hasn’t been done already), and as long as the interior doesn’t smell like an ashtray I’d grab it just to give to someone who really needs a reliable daily driver.
If the transmission in the Odyssey has been replaced reasonably recently, I’d consider that too, but unfortunately the people who really need a van in this price range are the ones who are least able to pay for a transmission swap. :\
That is the least rusted-out Sunfire I have seen in a VERY long time. That Ecotec will run pretty much forever with a bit of maintenance (although it may be due for a timing belt soon if it hasn’t been done already), and as long as the interior doesn’t smell like an ashtray I’d grab it just to give to someone who really needs a reliable daily driver.
If the transmission in the Odyssey has been replaced reasonably recently, I’d consider that too, but unfortunately the people who really need a van in this price range are the ones who are least able to pay for a transmission swap. :\
The Odyssey with the 3.5 V6 was actually somewhat entertaining to drive and it’s exceedingly practical. The Sunfire has always been miserable.
I’d rather take my chances with a questionable transmission than subject myself to misery every time I get in a car.
Oh thank god someone else here seems to remember what the Sunfire was actually like.
Guys, there’s other shitboxes out there that are plenty reliable (for the situation of buying a beat-ass $2k car) that bring more to the table than the Sunfire. This is the sort of car that scared away some of the last remaining people willing to buy American economy cars.
You’re not wrong, but to be fair there are also better minivans out there that don’t threaten to become a paperweight at any given moment.
Yeah, I’d much rather get a Sienna of this era. Especially in the two-tone!
I’d argue that if you’re shopping in the $2k range and the vehicle is on it’s 5th owner, you’re taking that risk unless it’s a 90’s Camry. And even then.
Think about the horrors that a 2003 Pontiac Sunfire has likely seen. I get that this powertrain has the “cockroach” reputation, but everyone here seems to think this thing has an unlimited amount of miles left on the clock.
Leaving aside any questions about purpose (long commute, hauling, etc), if I needed one of these to last me a year without a catastrophic repair, I’d say the van is enough of a step-up in driving experience to take that risk. If I needed one to last 5 years, I’d have to go with the Pontiac. In neither case would I be super happy driving my choice, but such is the nature of these contests.
Yep, this is the reality of spinning the Shitbox Wheel of Pain™.
This. I came down here to write the same but luckily someone already did.
The Sunfire wasn’t nice when it was new, and decades of rotting in the sun won’t improve that.
The Honda doesn’t have a great transmission, but there are parts to rebuild the 5-speed auto to be better than the glass-piece it was when new. Most are rebuilt with those parts these days, so I’d rather run that risk than go with the “guaranteed to be awful” Sunfire.
Yup, the Sunfire and it’s ugly brother Crapalier were terrible out of the door. Esp. with a 4 cyl. and the auto. Friends had those as the family couldn’t wait to pass down that garbage to their kids just to be rid of them.
The Odyssey with the 3.5 V6 was actually somewhat entertaining to drive and it’s exceedingly practical. The Sunfire has always been miserable.
I’d rather take my chances with a questionable transmission than subject myself to misery every time I get in a car.
Oh thank god someone else here seems to remember what the Sunfire was actually like.
Guys, there’s other shitboxes out there that are plenty reliable (for the situation of buying a beat-ass $2k car) that bring more to the table than the Sunfire. This is the sort of car that scared away some of the last remaining people willing to buy American economy cars.
You’re not wrong, but to be fair there are also better minivans out there that don’t threaten to become a paperweight at any given moment.
Yeah, I’d much rather get a Sienna of this era. Especially in the two-tone!
I’d argue that if you’re shopping in the $2k range and the vehicle is on it’s 5th owner, you’re taking that risk unless it’s a 90’s Camry. And even then.
Think about the horrors that a 2003 Pontiac Sunfire has likely seen. I get that this powertrain has the “cockroach” reputation, but everyone here seems to think this thing has an unlimited amount of miles left on the clock.
Leaving aside any questions about purpose (long commute, hauling, etc), if I needed one of these to last me a year without a catastrophic repair, I’d say the van is enough of a step-up in driving experience to take that risk. If I needed one to last 5 years, I’d have to go with the Pontiac. In neither case would I be super happy driving my choice, but such is the nature of these contests.
Yep, this is the reality of spinning the Shitbox Wheel of Pain™.
This. I came down here to write the same but luckily someone already did.
The Sunfire wasn’t nice when it was new, and decades of rotting in the sun won’t improve that.
The Honda doesn’t have a great transmission, but there are parts to rebuild the 5-speed auto to be better than the glass-piece it was when new. Most are rebuilt with those parts these days, so I’d rather run that risk than go with the “guaranteed to be awful” Sunfire.
Yup, the Sunfire and it’s ugly brother Crapalier were terrible out of the door. Esp. with a 4 cyl. and the auto. Friends had those as the family couldn’t wait to pass down that garbage to their kids just to be rid of them.
The Honda probably has a few years of competency left in it, a steal for $2k van. Yeah I get it the transmissions in these have a shelf life, but it’s already made it 20 years and the transmission has already been rebuilt.
In almost all situations I say no to Cavaliers/Sunfires. I’m guilty of the whole rose-tinted glasses thing for a lot of older cars, but I refuse to throw the shades on for the J-body. They sucked when they were new. Yeah I get that they were cheap and “run poorly forever” (I get this is the accepted reputation, but I know multiple people whose J-body shit the bed for good very, very young) but cars like these were more or less GM shoving a boot up the ass of folks that dared buy a small economy car from them.