Welcome back! Well, as far as I can tell, the sun came back after the eclipse, and the world didn’t end, so let’s check out some more cars. Today we’re looking at vehicles with small but loyal followings, both capable of efficiently hauling a bunch of stuff.
It appears you all are even less fans of the later-generation Mitsubishi Eclipses than I thought. The response from yesterday’s matchup was underwhelming at best. I get it; it’s like when someone says they’re going to play a Van Halen record and they put this on. But what can I do? If I picked good Eclipses, you’d all complain about the prices.
Anyway, for what it’s worth, I’d take the red GT between these two. That white one just has too many questions. The only thing that makes me consider it is that it’s a four-cylinder; I am not a fan of working on transverse V6s.
So let’s see what you think of today’s choices. One is Volkswagen’s attempt at undercutting the Japanese and Korean economy cars of the late ’80s, and the other is Honda’s attempt to be hip and modern. And you’ll be happy to hear that, today, there isn’t an automatic transmission in sight.
1989 Volkswagen Fox GL wagon – $5,200
Engine/drivetrain: 1.8 liter overhead cam inline 4, four- or five-speed manual, FWD
Location: McKeesport, PA
Odometer reading: 160,000 miles
Operational status: “Would not hesitate to drive anywhere”
With all the small inexpensive cars dying off these days, it’s hard to remember a time when automakers were actually fighting over the bottom of the market, so much so that they would introduce new models below the vehicles already in their lineups. Sometimes these cars were just de-contented versions of the old model sold alongside the new one, as was the case with Chrysler’s “America” versions of the Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon. But in the case of Volkswagen, a global company with different models sold all over the world, it meant bringing a new cheaper car to the US from somewhere else.
The Volkswagen Fox, introduced in 1987, was meant as a bargain-basement competitor to subcompacts like the Toyota Tercel and Nissan Sentra, as well as the dirt-cheap Hyundai Excel. The Fox was built in Brazil, and was a modified version of the VW Gol. In the grand tradition of weird-ass Brazilian VWs, the Gol was sold with both the Beetle-style air-cooled flat-four, and the Passat-style water-cooled inline four, both mounted in the extreme front of the car and driving the front wheels.
The US-model Fox only received the water-cooled engine, the same 1.8 liter unit that was standard in the Golf and Jetta, but mounted longitudinally. Possibly to its detriment in the sales race, the Fox was never available with an automatic; you could get a manual with four forward gears, or five. We don’t know which gearbox this Fox GL wagon has, but we are told that its owner has eschewed the finicky Bosch CIS fuel injection system for a carburetor. They say it runs beautifully and has made many successful road trips.
The seller has made some modifications that aren’t to my taste, like the white gauge faces, though I do like the aftermarket steering wheel. The outside is like Old European Car Bingo: round driving lights – check. Roof rack – check. German license plate in front – check, which makes me wonder if the seller knows this car isn’t really German. Oh well; at least it isn’t “stanced.”
2005 Honda Element EX – $4,500
Engine/drivetrain: 2.4 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, five-speed manual, AWD
Location: Monroe, WA
Odometer reading: 242,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives great
Beloved of dog owners everywhere, the Honda Element was one of a few different “weird lifestyley cars” introduced in the late 90s/early 2000s, along with the Pontiac Aztek and Isuzu VehiCROSS. Like those, the Element was based on a more ordinary car’s platform, in this case the Honda CR-V. It features clamshell-style doors on both sides, water-resistant interior materials, and oddball gray plastic fenders and fascias. At least, most of them had gray; some silver Elements, like this one, had the plastic panels in blue.
The Element was available with either front-wheel-drive or Honda’s “Real Time” all-wheel-drive, and either a manual or an automatic transmission. This one happens to be the best combination: AWD with a manual. The shifter on manual Elements is weird; it comes out of a protrusion on the center stack of the dashboard, and kind of looks like a video game joystick, or something used to control a forklift.
This one has a lot of miles on it – 242,000 – but I also think I see a tow-bar mount, so not all those miles may have been under its own power. Regardless, it runs well, and has a new clutch. It’s nice and clean both outside and in, and importantly for a Honda, rust-free.
I’ve always liked the Element. A good friend of mine bought one when they first came out, and it served him well for many years. There are two things I remember from riding around in it: First, the rear seat sits really high, much higher than the front seats, and it makes it feel tippy around corners, and second, you have to plan your egress carefully and wait for the front-seat occupants to clear the side of the car before you open the rear door, or else you’ll both get trapped in the space between the doors.
Both of these cars did OK in sales, but not great, and these days they’re both looked after by a small (very small, in the case of the Fox) but loyal group of fans. But unlike some other forgotten oddballs, these are both useful, practical cars. Which one is your choice?
(Image credits: Fox – Facebook Marketplace seller, Element – Craigslist seller)
The Fox is intriguing only due to the fact that it’s still here. These things were sold to people as basic transportation and they were treated as such. The price is reflecting something that is nonexsistent – affinity for the exclusivity for such a vehicle. The Element is more versatile, of this century, and could actually take the role as an everyday vehicle. Do that to the Fox anywhere in salt country, and it will disintegrate in 2-3 years just like all the rest did.
Yes, the Fox is way overpriced. Yes, it’s a weird German/Brazilian production. But I NEVER see those anymore. If you had said today’s choice featured an Element, I would have said that I’d be voting for the Element, no question. However, here we are and I voted for the last shooting brake I can think of being sold in the US.
Honda Element for me. I’m not gonna spend that much on an old VW Fox, which wasn’t that great to begin with, and also have an example where the owner switched it to a fucking carb.
I’ll take the Swiss Army Knife of cars: Element.
Element every single time. Especially over some PA Dubber’s project that’s likely a sea of rust underneath that’s been whipped around every Sheetz parking lot at 10/10ths.
I’ll take The Brave Little Toaster.
The Fox was always my favorite VW ever, I am weird. I know. So by default I picked it. The element isn’t a terrible choice either.
Those old VW engine bays just look so haphazard. Canted engine, radiator shoved over to one side, battery sitting in an odd place, etc. It’s like they just plopped it all in there without much thought. On top of that, this one has what looks to be a hillbilly cold air intake.
The Honda wins by default. Also, that Fox is way overpriced.
I had this Element. I loved this Element and wish I still had it. It was a bit of a pig, but a K-series will last 3.5 forevers with plenty of aftermarket to boot.
IF the Fox has AC it won’t be enough to make up for all of the non-opening glass.
This one was easy.
Always thought the Element looks better in just one color. YMMV.
One of my friends owns an Element. The reason they are popular is because they’re SUPER useful. For a semi-small vehicle you can haul a shit ton of stuff in them.
I have zero love for the Element, but when I say no VWs ever, I mean it.
Well, quite. I abstained as I have zero interest in either of them, and they are both overpriced.
And as far as VW’s go, this is one of the worst…
I find the current fad of the Element to be interesting. It truly is proof that people want vehicles more than they think about them. It’s neat and all, but the powertrain is an absolute pig, and there are better car camping interiors out there. I won’t hesitate to say that Honda is about half a decade late on bringing it back, though. I have no idea what their deal is. The new Passport was such a whiff
22 MPG combined for 0-60 in 8.5 seconds for a wheelbase 3 inches shorter than a contemporary Civic, in case anyone feels compelled to knee jerk defend it lol
Lol, here’s my knee-jerk defence, as someone who has no use for an Element, but kinda gets it.
The Element stands above the rest by dodging the aggressive beige-ness that afflicted the era, without coming across brash of naff. Not only has the design aged well stylistically, the plastic cladding and interior are resilient, such that even high-milage examples tend to look fairly presentable. It’s also still a genuinely useful car. It’s an Aztek that normal people can appreciate unironically.
I agree they aren’t anything special to drive, but at some point any stick-shift car will be a novelty- Never mind a manual crossover from this century. Regardless, the unique and weirdly timeless styling/ features almost guarantee the Element some form of future classic status.
I think you’re being a bit pessimistic about the milage- while the brick shape kneecaps it on the freeway, 25-26mpg should be fairly attainable on regional roads and highways if you take it easy- Which is kinda the best current use case for the Element anyways. It would also make a fun weekend car for a city dweller. I read somewhere that you can swap in a 6th gear from the contemporary TSX, which apparently helps on the freeway.
Most of the Element’s problems are just the realities of 2000s vehicles in general. You can only balance performance and economy so well with 4-5 gears. The same 160HP K series in the CRV was considered “Impressive, near V6-level performance” back in the day. On paper, the CRV was the smart buy, which is what most people (like my parents) did. I doubt you’ll see many 2000s CRVs at car shows in 10 years though.
I’ve owned 4 Honda Elements. 3 of which were the AWD 5speed manual variants. The automatic is an absolute bore to drive, but the 5 speed is fun-ish. And this price is reasonable, I sold a 2005 5 speed AWD about a year ago for $5K, and it had 275K on it.
Comparing it to a Civic is kinda apples/oranges. It’s a utilitarian box, not a sedan made for hauling people. I love me a funky utility Honda, cause I bought a Ridgeline after selling the toaster.
I really wanted to vote for the Fox. I love that two door wagon body style, but (probably) no AC, and “some” rust in a Pennsylvania car (even one that spent most of its life in Hawaii and California) means I voted Element. And it’s a grand cheaper?
Elementary, my dear Autopians.
You lost me right here. I ditched carburetors 35 years ago and never looked back. The fact that they went back to a carb for reliability says all anybody needs to know about the Fox.
Also, the Element was a fantastic vehicle that Honda needs to bring back.
The injection system is dirt simple. Throwing a carb on this smells of “boy racer”.
Also wonder how hard it is to source parts on this VW.
Guess we vote Honda today.
Is it mechanical or electronic CIS?
I had mechanical K-Jet on my 1976 242, and honestly it was rock solid. Started and ran flawlessly from -30C to 30C. Solid power bump over the same 2,1L engine on carb. That said, I’ve heard if anything goes seriously wrong, your only hope is to find some grizzled old euro mechanic who worked on the systems new.
Not certain here. My very limited knowledge is limited to rebuilding a few hundred injection pumps made by Bosch. These were all mechanical in fact.
Tough one. Depends what you’re buying it for. If you just want transportation it’s the AWD Element with a stick all day, no question. If you already have transportation and want something to take to a Cars and Coffee, then $5k for a clean Fox seems fair. I went for the VW because although the Element is rad, I have no use for it.
The Element is more usable and more maintainable. It’s also got a cult following that will guarantee you’ll find a buyer and it’ll probably have some kind of niche classic status in the near future. Every time I see an Element out in the wild, I opine about how they should still be making it… then my wife calls me a tasteless loser.
Love the Element. The only thing worse than getting stuck in between the doors when everyone is trying to get out of the car at the same time is having front seat passenger slam the door closed with the back one still open. It makes a cringe worthy thunk and bounces back open
I learned to drive on a Fox, but not the VW one, the Audi one (the US version of the Audi 80). Even back in the mid-80s parts were hard to find for it. I went with the Element for that reason.
I took the Fox cause I already have an Element and don’t need 2, haha.
I’ll be honest I didn’t read a single word. Element always and forever! Bring it back you cowards! And make it a PHEV!!!
The correct take AND a Minor Threat fan? Nice.
Element!
Element, because with only 2 of those door handles on the Fox you are almost guaranteed to find yourself crawling through the hatch at some point.
That’s the nicest Fox I’ve seen since about 1990. Those things all fell to junker status almost immediately.
I’d still have the Element.
You have the correct take
This. They were all over the place in the ’80s, and then suddenly nowhere as of the ’90s. Contrast that with say everyone’s favorite punching bag, the Chevy Cavalier…
Yep. Cavaliers were absolute cockroaches.