Good morning, and welcome back! Today we have our very first two reader-submitted rides. Yes, you read that right: you can now suggest shitboxes of your very own! Our Discord is the place to do that; just look for the Shitbox Showdown channel. I don’t think you need to become a member to join, but you should anyway.
If you do want to submit a car, here are a couple of tips to keep in mind. Photos are important; we need at least 4-5 decent photos to work with. You have no idea how many cars I find that I’d love to feature, but only have one or two crappy photos. Also, the weirder the better; one of today’s choices is a bit dull, but its condition makes it worth writing about. Oh, and make sure there is a legitimate price listed, not that “$1,234” garbage that’s getting popular.
So let’s quickly finish up with Friday’s rarities, and we’ll get to it.
Oof. Sorry, SWG; the Sebring seems to have been left behind again. It is a cool idea, but I think the non-runningness just scared off too many folks. That Mazda has led an interesting life, but at least you can drive it home.
Today’s cars both, well, aren’t drivable. But for once, it’s not my fault! Actually, for what they are and how much they cost, you could do worse. But both have one inoperative system, and it’s kind of an important one: the brakes. There’s just no stopping either of these cars. Both of them do run, however, so let’s take a look and see which one is worth fixing.
1989 Saab 900 Turbo convertible – $1,500
Engine/drivetrain: 2.0 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, three-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Mentor, OH
Odometer reading: 132,000 miles
Runs/drives? Runs fine, but has no brakes
This Saab convertible was suggested by our frequent commenter Rootwyrm. I know he’s a Saab guy, so I’m not surprised to see this. What we have here is one of the later iterations of the original Saab 900, which dates back to the late 1970s. This one is a blessed with a turbocharged engine, but cursed with a very un-Saab-like three-speed automatic gearbox.
One of the 900 convertible’s most distinctive visual features is the spoiler that runs around the base of the convertible top. I don’t know how much of a difference this really makes to the aerodynamics, but knowing Saab, it must serve a purpose–reducing wind buffeting when the top is down or something. Saab engineers rarely did anything without a good reason, however esoteric their methods. They were also obsessed with vehicle safety, which is important for when things go sideways.
This Saab’s turbocharged, Triumph-derived four-cylinder engine runs fine, and the unfortunate choice of gearbox works, but the car has no functional brakes. The seller says you can drive it onto a trailer (carefully) but no further than that. Luckily, as weird as so many other aspects of the 900 are, the brakes are relatively conventional, so if you know how to do brakes, you know how to do Saab brakes. On earlier 900s, the handbrake acted on the front wheels, but by this time they had switched to the back like most other cars.
This Saab has been sitting a while, it looks like. The seller says the top is watertight, but that hasn’t stopped some mildew from forming on the seats and other surfaces. But the sheetmetal is straight and clean, all the glass is there, and the top does look like it’s in good shape. A new set of brakes, some elbow grease, and likely a few other odds and ends, and you’ve got a quirky summertime cruiser.
2000 Toyota Camry – $1,250
Engine/drivetrain: 2.2 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Independence Township, MI
Odometer reading: 166,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yeah, it runs, but…
Reader Dottie suggested this Camry, and while I wouldn’t normally feature yet another beige Camry, this ad amused me. This car needs pretty much everything. Seriously, the list of things that are broken or worn out reads like that scene in Ghostbusters when Dan Aykroyd shows up with their signature Cadillac ambulance for the first time.
This one doesn’t have any brakes either, owing to rusted-out brake lines going to the rear. The front brakes still work, but they’re shot, it sounds like. One CV joint is on the way out. It needs some suspension work. The exhaust is rusted out too, and the check engine light is on for an O2 sensor. Oh, and it has a terrible oil leak too, from the oil pump housing.
So what’s the good news? It’s an XV20-generation Camry, a car that typically has an excellent reputation. The engine and transmission are in fine shape apart from the oil leak. It has pretty low mileage for its age. It has been in the same family since new, and has been serviced regularly. It also had a bunch of repairs, including cooling system work, a new timing belt, AC compressor, struts at all four corners, and new tires and wheels. It also doesn’t look too rusty for being a Michigan car.
Toyota sedans this age are incapable of being fun to drive, compelling to look at, or charming in the slightest. They are appliances, nothing more. But they are highly effective appliances, and as long as you throw an occasional pile of new parts at them, they’ll keep going for pretty much ever.
Yeah, they’re both fixer-uppers today. But hey, if you don’t like them, you now have the option of sending me links to cars you do like. For today, you’ve got a choice of a Swedish droptop in need of some stopping power, or a beat-up Japanese sedan that needs it all, but should have some life left in it afterwards. What will it be?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
I think this may be the first time I’ve gone against a Toyota in one of these, but I’ve gotta go with the Saab. As others have said, that list of repairs on the Camry is just too long when 500-1k can get you a fully operational example.
BTW, I meant to say “when an extra 500-1K can get you a fully operational example.” I’m guessing it was understood, but just to be sure.
I mean if you’re gonna have to fix everything, at least do it in the more interesting job. Strange world we’re living in when cars like these can go for four figures.
if the Camry has been that neglected , even it’s near legendary reliability status is greatly in question. Brakes are easy on the Saab. let’s retro Yuppy the local mall in style. I mean if there are any of those still too.
If I’m going to buy a 23 year old Camry, it’s going to be one of the many available that doesn’t require a ton of work. The whole point of Camry is to not have to do anything to it out of the ordinary. Sorry to say, this one is shot. But hey, 23 years is pretty darn good, regardless of mileage.
I’m a big Saab fan and for that price this 900 ‘vert seems like a decent deal for a fun project. The auto is sort of lame, but for a summertime cruiser I could probably live with it.
I’d only want that old Saab if it was a manual. I still remember reviews from when that Saab was new that the version with the GM-sourced 3 speed auto was absolutely crap.
Exactly this. I had a coworker who loved Saabs to the point we planned an intervention (seriously), and his favorite thing to do was buy broken, rusted 900s with manual transmissions and then swap them into dead automatic 900s he would haul up from the south to the rust belt. I think he did it probably a dozen times, and each time the automatic cars were some pristine condition ones where the owners gave up after the second or third transmission and sold them for $500.
They both need brake work, which is always a miserable job. If I’m going to be miserable, I at want something to look forward to when I’m done. Saab all the way, even though I bet it needs more than just brakes.
Why buy a Camry that needs brakes when for like $500 more I can buy one that has brakes?
I’ll take the Saab.
Welp, Toyota nevah came with a bikini team so it’s time to do a little brake work.
No doubt which one I picked. Had a 92 convertible and it needed more work than I had time and money so I sold it. Wife and I agree we will own another one eventually.
Gotta vote Saab. Both seem fixable, but once you’ve fixed the Camry, who cares? And you’ll probably be in it for more than it’s worth.
If you’re driving a forty year old Saab that doesn’t leave you covered in cheeto-orange dandruff because the headliner fell off twenty five years ago, are you really driving a forty year old Saab?
Obviously Nordic quirkiness beats a four wheeled washing machine every time
Oh I felt that dusty sprinkle…
That Camry needs so much work, and after it’s all said and done you would still have a crappy old Camry. While the automatic is a bit of downer the Saab is infinitely more interesting than the beigemobile.
I love the Saab but not the transmission. But still saab
Saab, please.
As mentioned, both crapcans need work, but once the work is completed the Saab will be the more interesting result. Originally I thought it had been cared for better than the Toyota, but – despite the pictures – you don’t get tree parts under the hood from parking in a nice clean garage. The Saab was clearly parked outside for a long time, which is likely how the owner knows the top is watertight.
It’s odd that the Camry should require brakes, because looking at the state of the bumpers it appears the brakes were rarely used. The rear bumper goes above and beyond the traditional dent into a crack, which seems oddly appropriate. CP for that one.
Hi. Yeah. No. Lemme explain something about Ohio and spring and trees.
If you park the car outside for, say, 30 minutes during spring? You will have 5lbs of maple seeds and castoffs inside of every gap. Minimum. If it had been outside longer, the entire engine bay would be FULL.
Believe me, I would damn well know. Having had to dispose of two full 35 gallon garbage cans full of nothing but maple helicopters this year.
I’m familiar with trees, thanks. Not terribly familiar with Ohio but I’m okay with that.
The point was that the Saab had almost certainly been stored outside, despite what was shown in the listing (and despite your anti-maple commentary). The seller tried to make it look as if it had been stored inside, to the point of power-washing the convertible top to remove the crud (clearly visible in picture #7 in the CL ad) and parking the car in a garage for the pictures.
This is what most people would call “lying”.
Call the Craigslist police! Someone selling a used car lied in their ad. This has to be a 1st. Should we call Ripleys?
Ummm, I did have a Camry of this generation that was legitimately fun to drive. V6 stick shift, 4-wheel disc brakes, stiffer (and ever so slightly lowered) suspension and stiffer rear anti-sway bar. Went like stink when you wanted it to, great brakes, handled great with very little understeer and looked like every other car on the road.
I actually really like the look of this gen Camry.
I was prepared to go Camry despite my contribution, but look. Have you ever done a rear brake line job on a Michigan car? Let me put it this way: there is no such thing as a rear brake line job on a Michigan car when the cause is rot out. Every single hard line in the car breaks the second you touch the first nut. And hand-bending every replacement.
With the Saab’s lack of rust, it’s going to be the master cylinder or the ABS module. The 900’s ABS module is an older Ate unit that’s pretty easy to source. Few hours wrenching and you’re back on the road.
If it’s an ’89, fixing brakes is even easier, as ABS appeared for 1990. The automatic, if working correctly, makes for a nice around-town cruiser. However, 4k RPM at 75-80 mph gets old, fast. Having brought a ’91 convertible back from the dead in the past couple years, ABS issues were both the pressure sphere gone bad (a Mercedes one will work in its place), and because convertible, the control module was waterlogged. The spoiler? Beyond looking cool, it covers the canvas top tackstrips. As for the Camry…. Pure Michigan rust. I would add the C900 to my fleet of wayward Saabs.
I believe I used a Buick Reatta sphere on one of my 900s previously; I’m sure there’s a few different parts that work retroactively.
I did a rear brake line on a LeBaron from the UP once—ended up doing all the hard lines: wasn’t my car, so, “I’ll keep an eye on that” wasn’t an option.
I lost a Honda Accord back in Minnesota due to a rusted-out rear brake line. Tried to put the car on a lift just to assess things, and the damn thing nearly split in half. Couldn’t even get it safely off the ground, it was so rotten underneath.
There are many things I miss about the midwest, but road salt is not one of them.
I have a 2000 Camry as a backup car. It’s fine, I’m sure, but I hate it. It’s slow, the transmission is dimwitted and clunky, it’s flimsy inside and out so it rattles, and the steering feel is non-existent because it’s so over assisted. It’s so depressingly meh that it perfectly fits the description of transportation appliance.
You’re alright, Rootwyrm. Good suggestion. I always thought the C900 convertible looked a bit gawky and ungainly, with the exception of a few special edition versions, but this is still better than a used up Camry. I think the saddest thing about C900s is that they handle well, are very fun to drive, and just ooze character…but man, is the BW 3 speed auto a hot pile. I’ve had both manual transmission and automatic C900s and while the manual isn’t very robust, the BW 3 isn’t really either and it sucks to drive. My understanding is Saab was limited with transmission application due to the “unique” arrangement of their drivetrain.
If the SAAB was a manual sure. Go with parts availability Toyota if I had to choose. Though really it is none of the above.
I don’t care this Toyota needs so many parts it is better and cheaper to buy a different Toyota so SAAB SOMEONE APPARENTLY ABOUT TO GO BROKE.
Thumbs up for the Saab (though hating on that transmission). The spoiler, by the way, houses the third brake light on 900 convertibles and likely does little else. On hatchback 900s, because the long sloping window accelerates air and lightens the rearend, the spoiler does contribute some down force at speed, but the back window configurations of the sedan and convertible are such that airflow is disrupted toward the back window leaving little or nothing for a spoiler to do (it’s more pronounced on the hardtop as the slope of the convertible back window is closer to the hatch). So, mostly, it just looks cool.
The 900 can be manual swapped, and these cars are only going to appreciate.
The Toyota needs way more work, and that sucks. The Saab “just needs brakes”, but that’s now, today, not six months from now. Which is what scares me.
I guess the Camry is “known unknowns” but the Saab is “unknown unknowns”.
By the way, a manual transmission on either would seal the win.
Rootwyrm Saab for the win. No contest!
Profoundly cursed. And if we’re dealing in the profoundly cursed, give me the Saab every time.
Normally, I’d have gone Toyota, but that one is too much hassle. If the Saab really is a brake job and some elbow grease, it’s a good deal.