I respect a car enthusiast who can be wholly content with their current fleet. I respect it, but I cannot do it. My eye is inveterately wandering. I already wrote up all the arguments I made to my family to trade our trusty Subaru Forester for a Ford Maverick. After more than a week with a Pacifica Hybrid, I’ve been persuaded to get a van.
Before I was Publisher of The Autopian I was a producer at a production company called TangentVector, which makes a lot of the car stuff you see these days (shout out “Win the Weekend“). I spent a lot of time on the road and sampled just about every rental vehicle out there. Given a choice, we pretty much always rented Pacificas (or Caravans or Voyagers). I’ve driven the vans across deserts, over mountains, and through cities.
Of the 100 or so vehicles I’ve driven on race tracks, a solid third of those are probably Mopar minivans (Indy, COTA, Laguna Seca, Lime Rock, Daytona, Sebring, Pikes Peak, to name a few). They get the job done.
Here are all the successful (and less successful) arguments I made to try and persuade the family to swap our Forester for the Pacifica.
Full disclosure: Chrysler gave me the minivan and a tank of gas. They let me put 1,700 miles on it; that was nice of them)
Argument One: It’s More Efficient
At its core, the Pacifica Hybrid is a FWD plug-in hybrid minivan that features a 3.6-liter V6 and a 16 kWh lithium ion battery. Compare that to the 2.5-liter, naturally aspirated flat-four in my Subaru Forester. The Pacifica Hybrid can travel an EPA estimated 32 miles on nothing but battery power (assuming you’re a little light on the throttle). My Forester can go zero miles on pure electric mode because, well, it doesn’t have one.
Driving the Pacific Hybrid around town for my normal commute (city driving), I found the Pacifica mostly stayed in electric-only mode. For the type of commute I have, I think I could keep it in electric mode most of the time. This is quite cool.
But what about when you need to go longer distances? I drove the Pacifica to Michigan and back with family and toys in the back and returned an average 31.5 MPG, with 250 miles driven in EV mode. If I were more diligent with the charging I’m sure I could have done better, but with regenerative braking I typically had enough EV mode to get me where I needed to go when exiting the highway. Even better, when fully charged you can cover an estimated 520 miles on a single tank. That’s a lot of miles.
My Forester is EPA rated at 24 MPG city/31 MPG highway, but fully laden I’m lucky to average 30 MPG on the same trip. Of course, my Forester was much cheaper and is also all-wheel drive.
How well did this argument do? 9/10
Argument Two: It’s Cushy As Hell
To paraphrase the great Lee Iacocca: If there’s a better luxury car for $58,067, buy it. Because I’m a fancy autojournalist, I definitely requested the Gucciest version, with the little quilted pillows, suede headliners, and 20 Harmon Kardon speakers. The Pinnacle is the premium trim and has almost every option box ticked. The one extra detail spec’d on this particular car was the $495 Fathom Blue Pearl exterior paint. I highly recommend this option and, frankly, this is the most paint for the least money I think I’ve ever seen on a car.
Both front seats are quilted Nappa leather (Nappa is known for its leather!) in a lovely, rich orange color. They’re also heated and ventilated. The center console features a big 10.1-inch touchscreen with Apple CarPlay and Google Android Auto. There are screens with individual Amazon Fire TVs built in for both rear passengers in the captains chairs. The dual-pane panoramic sunroof goes on for days.
My Forester was a great deal. I’m not gonna lie. We got the Premium version for $25,000 and it included heated seats and a sunroof. It’s all the car we really need. There’s no CarPlay, but otherwise it’s fine. With a small child I might prefer cloth because I hate having to worry about taking care of leather. Bette’s old enough, though, so she’s less spill prone and big enough for the good life.
How well did this argument do? 2/10
Argument Three: It’s Better For Our (Imagined) Current Lifestyle
We have one kid and no pets and therefore the Subaru Forester is exactly right-sized for us. When we go on road trips there’s plenty of room for everything we need. When we go camping it can get a little tight, but there’s always enough space.
But look how much more room we’d have with this! There’s no parent math when it’s time to take Bette and her friends to an event (“Jimmy goes in your car, Esther goes with me, uhhh I guess I’ll ride with Franklin”), we can just always have everyone come with us! When I drive my parents around someone always has to squeeze in next to my daughter’s carseat. No more!
Even with the fancy captains chairs this baby has 165 cubic feet of interior volume. There are apartments in New York that are smaller than that!
We also like to do road trips all the time and the Forester is fine. It’s fine. The Pacifica, purely as a way to chug miles, is completely unparalleled. You can take everything you need in it, it’s front-wheel drive and tracks super straight on interstates, and has a low center of gravity that keeps it well planted for curvier roads. The combined 260 horsepower and 236 lb-ft of torque aren’t earth-shattering. It’s slower than the Forester. You won’t care.
It’s heavy, of course. We drove straight into a blizzard and the combination of the 5,010-lb curb weight and the mediocre OEM all-season tires meant that it was slipping and sliding on slushy roads. The Forester is obviously superior here.
How well did this argument do? 3/10 – My wife’s view is that we should have the least amount of car we need and, honestly, I probably agree with her.
Argument Four: Minivans Are Cool
Minivans are cool again. For about 20 years, minivans were so ubiquitous and so deeply associated with a sort of middle class bourgeois lifestyle that they became somewhat undesirable. To paraphrase the great Yogi Berra: Minivans are so popular that no one buys them anymore.
Crossovers and SUVs have overtaken the minivan in the same way the minivan usurped the station wagon. Guess what? The stigma is off. Just get a van. They’re useful! They’re counter-culture! From a purely packaging standpoint they are extremely efficient. David drove one around Europe and it made him the most popular person on the continent.
If I had a choice between a super nice seven-passenger luxury SUV (let’s say an Alpina XB7) and a Pinnacle Hybrid, I’d take the Pinnacle any day. Hell, I’d take the base Touring L. It’s comfortable. It’s efficient. You don’t have to worry about scratching those giant wheels.
The time for the minivan is now.
How well did this argument do? 1/10
In Conclusion
Unfortunately, a combination of cost (even the base hybrid Touring L is $49,323 delivered) and practicality (we don’t currently have a place to charge it) are keeping this one a pipe dream. If another kid were on the way or our income suddenly changed I think I’d probably be able to make a better argument.
I’d still highly recommend this particular vehicle, in any trim and with any drivetrain, as superior to your average three-row crossover or SUV. The quite good Kia Telluride is probably the vehicle most competitive with the Pacifica Hybrid, as weird as that sounds, and I get why people buy the Kia. The Telluride is a handsome vehicle. For the price, it’s hard to beat (a nicely loaded SX-Prestige X Pro is only $54,350 delivered).
But why even have the third row? It’s useful-ish, but nowhere near as useful as the Pacifica. The Telluride is also way less efficient and, while slightly shorter, can’t offer the utility of the Pacifica around town.
We’ll probably stick with the Forester a little longer because it’s paid off and just works.
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Every Argument I Made To Trade Our Crossover For A Ford Maverick
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For Just Two Years You Could Buy A Practical Mazda Sedan That Hit 60 MPH In Under 6 Seconds: Holy Grails
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The 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited Was The Trackhawk Of The 1990s: Holy Grails
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For Just A Single Year You Could Buy A Manual VW Wagon With GTI Power: Holy Grails
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The Ford Focus Kona Mountain Bike Edition Has To Be The Only Car Recalled For A Bicycle Problem
Photos: Author
As much as I love chasing that dragon of buying weird fun vehicles, when you have a paid off and reliable daily driver that meets your needs, just keep it man. Stick and stay and make it pay.
My daily driver is a 17 year old pickup truck, and my wife’s is an eight year old CX-5. Neither will be replaced anytime soon, because they both just work. That frees up spare money to do fun things, like buying an old Buick that’s in pieces 🙂
We have an Outback, purchased for the same reasons you’ve highlighted for your Forester, except we have two kids now. I really would like 7 seats, but I don’t need them all the time and feel like a minivan would be overkill, so a 7 seat SUV makes more sense. However, what gets me in the minivan camp is the sliding doors. The children won’t open their doors onto poles or cars, and then the space to actually buckle up car seats… my wife would never ever let us get one, cos lets be honest, I don’t actually want to daily drive a mini van.
The “feel like a minivan would be overkill” thought is one that I think more buyers are actually thinking, not just trying to be image-conscious like so many accuse them of. In reality, a Traverse, Telluride, Pilot etc. are about the same size outside and not really any cheaper than a minivan. But, it feels like the next step up, and more “car” than people need.
It’s not like it was 20 years ago, when most SUVs were smaller, thirstier, and more expensive, and there were few crossovers on the market and they were also smaller. Even the original Pilot was about the length of the short-wheelbase Chrysler vans of the time.
It’s the Stelvio of minivans. That’s really a good looker. And if we were all as practical as we claim we would all drive minivans.
Love the Get Shorty reference but “Stelvio of minivans” seems like damning with faint praise. Do you mean it’s full of electrical gremlins that will strand you at any time, or do you mean it has the highest depreciation in its segment?
A minivan with AWD and a decent towing package would sell well.
We’ll be in the market for one of these soon, and a hybrid Pacifica really is tempting. A PHEV minivan just makes so much sense. It’s expensive, but I don’t know what other vehicle makes as much sense for a family with 2 young kids and a large dog.
I like the idea of a PHEV van, just wish it wasn’t a Chrysler product. I’d usually take the Sienna and its better than average hybrid fuel economy instead, but apparently Toyota made the second row seats “non-removable”? Really? Maybe I’d see how much a Chrysler extended warranty is.
You might be surprised by modern Chrysler. I know I am.
If you sort for highest miles when shopping for recent model used cars, you’re very likely to find a Chrysler Pentastar V6 powering whatever it is you find. The Chrysler V6 powers some of the most used up and wore out vehicles on the planet.
That Pentastar V-6 is a solid design, used in nearly everything they make, and all the bugs have been sorted out by now. In the PHEV, it’s being operated in a very low stress way.
Almost all recent Chrysler transmissions are ZF or ZF licensed designs, which is another strong point.
The rest of their construction and subsystems can be hit or miss, but regarding long term reliability, I think Chrysler is 180 degrees from where they were when I grew up.
I love Toyotas, but I also think the Pacifica PHEV drives much nicer than the Sienna as well.
I’m in exactly the same boat as you.
My wife has a 2018 Subaru Forester. It is… fine. Other than the CVT being replaced under warranty at 20k miles (YIKES – watch out for that one) it performs it’s duties well. We have two kids, a small dog, we all fit and will fit way, way better once my son is front facing.
But man, the thing sucks to drive, and a minivan wouldn’t be any worse. The hybrid Sienna gets better mileage, and would be far more useful than the Forester. We can get grandparents in the same car (they live locally). We can use it for fun adult gathering transport (like a Ford Flex commercial!). And it would be way better to haul with and camp out of.
The reality is we got our bland as hell base model (with rails and rims) for 23.5k back in 2018. With 0% financing! You can’t get a freaking base model Civic for that today. A van runs close to 40k with no options, financing is pricier, it’s all just too big a pill to swallow to do essentially the same stuff as the Forester. The Forester is paid off, as well as my craptacular Hyundai commuter wagon. As long as three row vehicles are going to be priced like this (likely forever) we’re forced to stick with the Forester. Oh well.
Also, it appears a green base model Sienna is basically unobtainium.
Tried to get a green Sienna last year, and was told I could either take a grey after waiting 4 months or wait until TBD. I think Toyota stopped making them to try to catch up on demand. I think the local Toyota dealer still has single digits of new cars on the lot, although when I went in a few months ago I was told those were all sold.
The green is incredible and it hurts me that it seems to only exist in theory, to frustrate me.
We’re in a similar situation – soon to be 2 young kids, dog, and a paid off 2016 CX-5. The Mazda works just fine for now, but I have a feeling once that second rear facing seat gets in there it’s going to be way too tight. I’m just hoping we can wait long enough that prices come back down to earth a bit. A PHEV Pacifica is pretty expensive but at least can get a tax credit. The pricing and availability on Siennas right now is just bonkers.
I’m going to have a dramatic ceremony on my son’s 2nd birthday to celebrate the rotation of the car seat. I hope for it to look like a Billy Madison graduation party.
And yeah the Sienna availability like many desirable cars is more theoretical than anything.
At a couple of points in my life a minivan would have made more sense than my choices, but not at current prices. I have been temped by the Maverick, it does make some sense in the base version for the price, availabilty makes it a sad dream.
As it is my wife has been out three times today, twice hauling the car seat sitting grand daughter in a variety of weather from freezing rain to ice pellets. Now it is snowing I asked her If she wanted me to drive for the granddaughter drop-off to give her a break and she said “No it’s just snow”. The car a Subaru Impreza with Bridgestone Blizzak tires. The correct car for the job, not a great car, but an appropriate appliance. (-;
If you have just one kid, a van like the Pacifica hybrid is a harder sell because you don’t truly *need* a 7 passenger vehicle for a 3-person family.
Now a close friend of mine who has three kids, well when they were looking to move from their VW Passat to some sort of 3 row vehicle, in that case the Van makes a lot more sense.
Large 3 row CUVs and SUVs are generally all inferior to vans when it comes to their combo of cost/space/functionality.
And that close friend ended up getting a Honda Odyssey in spite of his wife pushing for a less practical and more expensive large SUV/CUV.
I’m genuinely surprised plug in hybrids aren’t more common. A plug in hybrid that can drive 30+ miles all-electric is the perfect vehicle given the current state of technology. Electric vehicles suck at towing and road trips, and probably will for the foreseeable future; plug in hybrids solve the road trip/towing problem entirely. Plus, with smaller batteries (and an ICE engine as a backup), the risk of prohibitively expensive repairs due to battery degradation/failure is much less of a concern. I also imagine these vehicles could last a long time since you have two mostly separate powertrains. I know plug in hybrids are more expensive than an ICE vehicles, but given the potential longevity and fuel savings (who the hell knows what gas will cost in 2035), you won’t end up spending much more over the life of the vehicle (maybe even save money depending on your driving needs?).
I think I post a similar comment/rant extolling the virtues of plug in hybrids every time something is written about them, but I really think they are an incredible idea. I genuinely don’t understand why buyers don’t seem to want them (I assume demand is low, or else more manufacturers would make them). Why aren’t they more popular??
To answer your question, not nearly enough plug in hybrids are made. Jeep 4xEs are selling quickly, even though they’re priced at a pretty strong premium over gassers.
There’s a premium for hybrids, and even more for a plug-in, but over the long term, it’s almost always worth it, even if you don’t consider the benefits of lower pollution.
We currently own a 2022 Pacifica PHEV Touring L, even for a base version, it doesn’t look or feel base. It has heated seats/steering wheel, nice infotainment system, adaptive cruise control etc. We drove it for 4 days from Michigan all the way to the NW area of Mexico (right below Arizona, to Sonora state) for Christmas vacation to see family, and of course driving back another 4 days. We got it on October 2022 and we currently have 9K miles. Its the best car to drive for such long distances, we averaged 26 mpg with 2 adults, 3 kids and 2 dogs lol plus luggage, gifts, etc during winter time and we dont drive slow
The only issue we have and I am pushing Stellantis to purchase back the vehicle, there is something going on with the drivetrain since we got the vehicle new (damn clunking noise) and I got a lemon law attorney from someone in here, thanks to the autopian community (the issue still present after 3 visits to the dealership and more than 30 days at the dealer)
If you are getting a Pacifica, get a nice warranty and you should be good
Making me have to google “inveterately”
I love my 2022 Pacifica as it holds everything I own inside of it, including two beefy mountain bikes and can easily keep up with traffic and mountain passes. I didn’t get the EV as I move very often and didn’t want to deal with any reliability issues on the road, and the EV version has had its share of issues. I also needed stow and go as I need the floor space and had nowhere to store the seats. You can remove the seats from most other minivans but they often have semi permanent mounting plates that get in the way.
I think Chrysler’s patent on stow and go second row seating runs out soon so I assume we will start seeing that feature on other brands as new generations come out.
I get that vans are extremely useful but I think some of the enthusiast worship of them is getting a little out of hand. They’re the pinnacle of function over form. If you want the most spacious appliance you can get then they make good sense, and they are certainly more efficient than most SUVs.
But I’m not sure why so many of us sickos will bash people that buy other dull, anonymous appliances like CRVs but then turn around and be like “ah yes, the minivan is the pinnacle of automotive engineering”. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me I guess…and let’s not act like choosing a comparable SUV offers no advantages whatsoever. You’ll see sizable gains when it comes to capability and driving engagement, even in the van-iest ones like the Telluride and the Pilot. And they look better to most people…there’s no getting around it. I’d rather be seen driving the new Pilot than an Odyssey and I think you would too regardless of how far along you are in your vanpilling.
Do I think society’s shunning of minivans has been good or necessary? Absolutely not. They’re a great option that people who need the space should consider, and probably 3/4s of the folks who buy SUVs will never need the extra capability…if not more. But I don’t see why we’re putting the minivan on such a pedestal these days. I honestly think a lot of it is driven by contrarianism. We enthusiasts sure do love to find the silver linings in products the market has abandoned…and frankly maybe I’m protesting too much because I do think it makes us RAD.
As an aside…am I the only one who gets car sick in minivans? Something about the high driving position, insane amount of visibility, and the windshield angles have always gotten to me on long drives.
Sliding doors may not be the pinnacle of automotive engineering, but they are close to it. It’s not really an exaggeration to say they are the primary reason I own a van instead of an SUV.
They are neat. I won’t deny that.
Have to agree with your contrarian point. When I was a (pre-minivan) kid, wagons were seen as the worst thing ever by enthusiasts. It was when they became an endangered species that they became to some the attractive librarian removing their glasses.
I just wish some small fraction of the enthusiast attention had been focused on coupes rather than wagons.
The fact that you used to be able to buy a coupe version of many (most?) mainstream cars will be one of those things that my children never believe could be true.
Now we just have coupe versions of SUVs
I used to love when auto companies simply took the sedan variant and awkwardly reduced the door count by 2. Like my fav the old VW Jetta coupe, or even the more recent Focus coupe. I appreciate the seeming spite yet acknowledgement of the cool of it.
Sliding doors are key, if for no other reason than you never have to worry about a kid slamming a door open into the neighboring car.
I like sliding doors as long as they aren’t powered. My parents have had two vans with power sliding doors that periodically refuse to close. The doors falsely sense that something is in the way and prevent the doors from closing. There doesn’t appear to be a way to manually close the doors when this happens. Maybe they have just had bad luck with their vehicles, but since two vans have had this issue, I think power sliding doors are more trouble than they are worth.
The power feature failed on one side of my 2011 Sienna after 270,000 miles and untold open/close cycles. The door could still be opened and closed manually with a bit more effort to pull it past the “turn around” point. I’m 3 years and several thousand open/close cycles into ownership of our 2020 model now without an issue.
The appeal (when they are working) is that kids can let themselves in and out.
I tend to be a nerd for minivans and I agree with you. I just replied on another comment that for many buyers, I think it’s actually that a minivan feels like a step “up” in needs over even the largest of crossovers even though many are the same size outside and in price. 20 years ago there were clear advantages, most SUVs were smaller and thirstier, most midsize crossovers were smaller, and both were more expensive. Nowadays, sure the van is ultimately more practical from a utility standpoint, but not everyone needs max capability for everything all the time.
Even against smaller crossovers, the “just get the van and have the space” argument – not everyone wants a larger vehicle. Not unlike the same arguments enthusiasts will say about the lack of small cars, or for better-equipped small cars like when a loaded compact car was newly hitting the upper $20k range.
What really would get me is the people that would lambast people for spending thousands more for a crossover when you could buy a brand new Dodge Grand Caravan in the low $20s after rebates. Really? Ignoring whatever way one feels about Chrysler quality, it was an aging design and the price being so cheap was an exception even for the segment because Chrysler was better at selling big cars for cheap than selling small cars for cheap. Even the rental fleets usually had higher spec Caravans than the base one. It often seemed like the same people that would say they wouldn’t touch a Chrysler product with a 10-foot pole too that said that’s what people should actually do but that might be exaggerating. Usually part of the argument was that “kids are going to beat it up anyway” but my sister and I didn’t beat on any of the vans we had growing up (which usually fell apart on their own).
As a family of 6 ( 4 kids from 10-16) that is hard on “the family car”, we can never justify buying anything close to new. that said, we’ve owned our 2012 Town and Country for 3 years and we’ve mostly loved the experience. prior to the T&C, we owned a 2005 Sienna for 5 years, and a 2004 Mazda MPV for 5 years before that, so we’re no strangers to the Minivan life.
Our T&C has generally been reliable, and has needed minimal maintenance over our 3 years so far. Brakes, tires, wipers, and oil changes have pretty much been it. The interior of our Chrysler was much better than the previous vehicles, but has not held up nearly as well.
We tend to treat our vans like trucks, hauling plywood, paving bricks, bike, and such, in addition to hauling kids on road trips. the fancier the interior appointments get, the less durable they are. While I love the idea of buying a Pacifica hybrid to replace the T&C at the end of its time with us, the interior might be too nice, and the loss of the Stow and Go seating would be a deal breaker. I can’t express how handy it is to be able to drop those seats at a moment’s notice and have all that space without finding a place to store that middle row in the garage.
The only other option would be to also buy a crappy old work truck, or rent one via U-haul when needed. we have a U-haul less than a mile away, but I run enough errands that it would reach a point of frustration with multiple rentals per month
A PHEV Pacifica was to be my next car… until I couldn’t find a used first gen one ANYWHERE. I know they only made a relative handful, but there was none at a decent price anywhere in the country last summer when I was shopping. I settled for a normal ICE model. Still a great vehicle.
(I’d also love a new second gen one, but who can afford a new car payment these days?)
for real, the thing is a unicorn. But there are boatloads of well equipped, low mileage gassers for sale from Hertz et al.
I owned a minivan once. It was a Plymouth (RIP), with a manual transmission (RIP). As far as suitability to task, it was awesome. I kinda miss it. I’ve been eyeing a Transit Connect, but pandemic pricing followed by Ford discontinuing the model, has made prices (both new and used) shoot through the roof. I’m sad.
I’d still love to know Ford’s thinking re ditching the Transit Connect. Does it figure it can sell crossovers as light utility vehicles for the trades? But with the Edge disappearing too, does Ford expect that market to buy, what, an Escape?
The answer, as always, is money. When Ford got busted for importing (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) passenger vans, and then gutting them into cargo vans once on US soil, the “Chicken Tax” kicked in, making the cost 25% more. Ideally, they could build them in North America (Mexico, most likely) but all of that plant space is already in use on more profitable vehicles. Add in supply shortages, and the first thing to go will always be the least profitable vehicles.
There are two of these spaceships, I mean, vans in my extended family. They are really neat to drive and I’m sold that PHEVs are the right solution to go electric for 80% of driving without carrying around thousands of pounds of unneeded batteries. However, neither of those vans have carried any 4×8 sheet goods, bags of cement, etc like my 15-year old Odyssey has and $50k buys a lot of gas for it. My solution is getting a Gen 2 Volt for around town and keep the van for hauling building materials and people on road trips.
The best part of this article, you were in my hometown of Corning. Did you go to the Glass Museum?
The glass museum is epic. I remember my family stopping there on a Niagara Falls road trip when I was maybe 14 or 15. At the time I was like THE GLASS MUSEUM SOUNDS LAME AS HELL I WANT LISTEN TO ANGELS AND AIRWAVES AND BE AT A PLACE WHERE THERE ARE BABES GOD WHY ARE MY PARENTS LIKE THIS I HATE MY LIFE…
…then when we got there I thought it was the coolest shit I’d ever seen and didn’t want to leave.
And no pictures of nearby Watkins Glen – what an auto enthusiast! 🙁
(I found it interesting the museum mentioned that it was built around the bad pour of the Mt. Palomar telescope mirror).
We currently have a Forester, ever since we had our second baby my wife has admitted that she sees the appeal of a minivan. I don’t really want one and she doesn’t really either but you can’t really argue with the versatility of one.
My current fleet is a 2022 Bolt and a 2018 Pacifica. Since we have the gas-only version, it’s purely for long trips and cargo duty…
The advantage of the gas version over the hybrid is that you get the fold-in-floor seats on both rows, giving you roughly all of the space with a lower load floor than any pickup, and we don’t miss the electric mode because efficiently running about is what the other car is for.
As it is, I have to remember to drive the Pacifica every now and then to make sure that nothing goes bad from sitting too long when we take it on one of our road trips (IL to FL or ME or sometimes all three).
I think this is the solution: an EV/PHEV for around town and a van for road trips and the lumber yard.
We have a similar 2015 Leaf, 2017 ICE-only Pacifica fleet. It’s the perfect combo, both bought gently used during the pandemic for a combined ~$15k less than the cheapest Pacifica Hybrid. Leaf for commuting and errands, van for road trips and home improvement. I honestly thought the Leaf would only be for commuting given the short range, but it fits two car seats at a squeeze and we find ourselves using it for anything that doesn’t take us >30 miles from the house, which isn’t much in Chicagoland.
Yep. My dad has the gas version and I can’t imagine having one without those stow and go seats. He uses it for grandkid duty, but I routinely borrow it for cargo hauling duty. Also, I don’t know the MPGs off the top of my head, but it does pretty well for a large-ish minivan.
I like the Pacifica for being authentic to what it is – a cargo vehicle.
Crossovers are less authentic to their natures, as most of them, to varying degrees, subliminally pretend (or try to get you to pretend) to be burly off-road vehicles, which of course was what SUVs originally promised.
Minivans have always been minivans, and isn’t that purity of the same sort offered by say a Miata?
5% of SUVs produced ever leave the pavement. So many people want outdoorsy active lifestyles, but… don’t. They want that image tho. lmao.
I enjoy how Jeep has become a master of using that 5% to its advertising advantage: show a Wrangler blasting across the desert or climbing some boulder-strewn hill, and then pivot quickly Renegades and Grand Cherokees cruising in a city or by the ocean.
And vis a vis your point, I really enjoy how the ads almost never show them in the suburbs…
I live an outdoorsy lifestyle in an outdoorsy area. The really hardcore outdoorspeople drive whatever POS they can afford while staying underemployed enough to spend as many days as possible outside.
Death to bloated SUVs and underutilized pickups (before they are the death of us)!
In January of 2022, my wife and I bought a new 2022 Pacifica hybrid (with Fathom blue paint) and we both love it. It really is the best all around vehicle you can buy.
How did you find the brake calibration? The one I drove (rental) had probably the worst balance of regen to stopping I’ve ever driven, it felt dangerous.
I’ve had a rental car with no brakes. Pedal straight to the floor. Which I only found out going down the airport garage ramp. The brake calibration in this was entirely normal and, for regen, fairly nicely weighted (I tend to like the heavier pedal).
I’ve been looking at one for a bit. I am eligible supplier pricing, but it’s still more expensive than most things I look at. And I don’t have kids, just a desire for a vehicle that can haul stuff or people pretty well and is efficient. Mostly stuff. My current vehicles each fail on one point or the other. I can haul stuff or be efficient, and it would be nice to get both in one vehicle. But 50k to start? Ouch.
Remember also that the hybrid doesn’t get Stow and Go seats, so its flexibility as a mover of both people and cargo is greatly reduced. On the other hand, the fixed center seats are a lot more comfortable for adults.
The middle seats can be removed, at least according to the interwebs. It sounds like they are a bit heavy and you would need a place to store them, but it is an option.
Yeah “fixed” was not the right word to use there, I only meant to say “the opposite of the Stow and Go” seats.
I’ve removed the middle seats from our old Sienna, not the current one, and it is difficult and cumbersome, but doable. I assume the Pacifica is similar.
Not having Sto-Go is probably a plus. Those seats are a lesson in compromise- they aren’t very good seats, and the floor is not as flat or low as it is in a van with seats that are removable. I’d rather muscle out the second-row seats on the rare occasions that I need to.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear you get a flat floor with the seats removed in the Pacifica Hybrid since the battery is below the middle row. The battery appears to stick up about a foot from the rest of the cargo floor.
Otherwise, I agree that stow & go is overrated for those that frequently don’t need to change configurations to accommodate cargo and passengers.
The stow area of the floor can hold a ton of stuff that is also out of sight. The comfort of the seat is irrelevant to as at this point as those seats always have a car seat or a booster on them. With the seats stowed I got a 77 inch tv, still in the box, to lay flat in the back.
I figure I can fold the rear seats flat and remove the middle ones if needed. But I probably won’t get one. It’s a lot of money to spend, especially given I can haul more already, just at a significant hit to gas mileage.