I’m pumped to be writing TMD this Wednesday for a number of reasons. First, our President’s Day sale was a hit and we’ve added more members than we have in a long time. I’m pretty busy this morning and haven’t updated the code, so if you’re still looking for Cloth Annual at just $4 a month the code might still be active. Just saying. Second, we’ve got Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares talking about Carlos Tavares, China, and North America. All the things. It’s great.
Ford is lowering the price of its Mustang Mach-E electric car, bringing it a little closer to Model Y territory for people who do not want a Tesla. It sounds like Toyota is going to start paying its suppliers more to improve working conditions at supplier plants, which is well-timed since Subaru’s plants are shut down due to the unfortunate death of a worker. Ford just avoided a strike in Kentucky over worker issues.
And speaking of workers, Tesla is facing more pressure in Sweden.
Carlos Tavares: I Gotta Long List Of Regrets
Carlos Tavares, pictured here talking to Reuters reporter David Shepardson, did a media tour in New York yesterday and there are all sorts of juicy quotes and information.
Tavares sounds fairly candid in these interviews. Below is an interview with CNBC and Tavares. On “Squawk Box” he talked about what is needed to make EVs work: A charging network, a long range, and affordability. What’s the issue?
“That’s the major star that is not aligned with the other ones” he told Phil LeBeau.
Preaching to the choir!
What else do we have? On China, Tavares says he doesn’t need help or want tariffs because his company is global and has to compete with Chinese automakers everywhere else so why even bother? From The Detroit News:
“My only option is to go head-on and that’s what we are doing,” he said, pointing to the Citroën ë-C3, a small hatchback produced in Slovakia for Europe from one of Stellantis’ French brands. The model starts at about $21,600 (19,990 euro).
Stellantis will seek to achieve a $25,000 vehicle in the U.S. market, though Tavares didn’t provide a timeline for that. It’s been made more challenging because Americans prefer larger vehicles that would require a larger battery pack, the most expensive part of an EV, for desirable ranges. He said there will have to be changes in supply chains, including using more suppliers in low-cost countries. The United States isn’t a low-cost country.
Also, Stellantis is pretty invested in China. I am curious to see how the new electric Fiat 500 does here as that’s not a huge-range vehicle and does have a smaller battery pack.
Also from The Detroit News, what about all that merger talk?
“Right now, we are just focused on execution. We have enough on our plate. There are no discussions on consolidation right now. … I want to cut all speculation on that stuff.”
I mean, if you ask nicely maybe I’ll stop.
My favorite report on the Tavares media tour is from The Detroit Free Press; the piece is just Tavares listing stuff he thinks should be better in North America, which has seen sliding sales as the company’s lineup ages:
Tavares said one area he looks to improve is in market communications.
“We are trying to move money from low-return activities to high-return activities,” Tavares sad. “So we are not cutting the total amounts, we are just saying, some media or marketing events are lower return than others.”
Ok, so marketing. This is at least partially about the skipping of auto shows.
What else?
“The production planning can be better than what we did,” he said. “The quality of the relationship with our dealers could be better and we’re working on that, and we are bringing in new product to the U.S. market so that’s a lot of things that should be aligned to make a better performance in the U.S.”
Ok, so figuring out the vehicles to build, the marketing of those vehicles, and the relationship with dealers (which I’ve also heard). Anything else?
Tavares listed the new 4½-year contract it reached with the United Auto Workers last fall as a challenge and he said the company is focused on improving its costs and to be more competitive, especially with EVs.
Ok, so choosing which cars to build, the actual building of those cars, the marketing of those cars, and the selling of those cars, as well as the EV transition. Carlos, isn’t that everything? The good news for Tavares and Stellantis is that the company is making a better than 15% margin in the United States and raking in record profits. Plus, a bunch of new products are finally coming to product-starved dealers.
Mach-E Drops Price Below $40k For Entry-Level Model
Last year we wrote about how Ford dropped the price of its entry-level Mach-E to $47,295; it’s been a year and, after another round of price cuts, the Standard Mach-E now comes in under $40k.
The No. 2 U.S. automaker’s lowest-price 2023 model year Mach E version now has a suggested retail price of $39,895, down from $42,995. The higher-end Mach-E GT spec will cost about $7,600 less, at $52,395. Other versions including the extended-range premium version will drop in price by $8,100 to $48,895.
Ford said the price cuts come as the automaker continues “to adapt to the market to achieve the optimal mix of sales growth and customer value.”
So, this is nice, the Mach-E is now cheaper than a Model Y. Unfortunately, the Mach-E doesn’t qualify for a $7,500 tax break and the Tesla Model Y does. Until that’s fixed it’ll make the Mach-E a competitive proposition, but not a Tesla Model Y killer given the charging network (which Ford is addressing with the NACS change) and slight range penalty (about 10 miles shorter than the base Model Y).
Ford does have a couple of tricks up its sleeves according to The Detroit Free Press:
In addition, Ford Credit is offering 0% financing for 72 months to qualified buyers, plus a $7,500 cash incentive on leased vehicles that is applied to immediately to lower the lease payment, Ford spokesman Marty Gunsberg said.
Honestly, that’s not bad. If I were to get a new electric vehicle now I’d probably lease rather than buy because of better incentives and the reality that in three years there will be a lot more choice for buyers.
Toyota-Subaru Deals With More Worker Issues, Ford Gets Some Resolution
Toyota is fully in get-yer-shit-together mode as it deals with the weight of becoming the world’s largest carmaker.
Let’s start with Subaru, which is now part of the larger Toyota Motor Group with Toyota as its largest shareholder. Tragically, a 60-year-old worker at a Subaru plant in Japan was crushed to death by a mold, as Automotive News reports:
The accident happened on the evening of Feb. 13, after a 25-ton mold fell on a worker at the Yajima assembly plant in Gunma prefecture north of Tokyo, local media reported.
A police spokesman in Ota, the city where the Yajima factory is located, confirmed details of the death. Police identified the worker as a 60-year-old man who was a 35-year veteran of Subaru.
The man was operating a crane by himself using a remote control to lift and move 25-ton molds, the local Jomo Shimbun reported.
The terrible incident has resulted in the shutdown of three Subaru plants, responsible for making a lot of the company’s vehicles.
At the same time, Toyota is going to use its record profits to pay back suppliers so those suppliers pass those dollars back to workers:
The world’s largest auto manufacturer said it will pay higher prices to encourage better labor conditions at some 400 suppliers in Japan starting in the fiscal year that begins April 1.
The hikes will partly help suppliers hire more workers to help better shoulder the workload. They will also help suppliers afford improvements to the work environment at their factories.
Toyota sent letters of notification to suppliers in Japan on Feb. 9, the head of the carmaker’s supply chain strategy department said in a Monday briefing. Overseas suppliers also may receive payment increases at a later time.
Ford finally has a final contract with the UAW at its key Louisville, Kentucky truck plant, narrowly averting a new round of strikes according to the Courier-Journal:
On Feb. 16, the UAW served Ford with a strike notice over local contract issues at KTP, namely health, safety and skilled trades jobs.
Evan Palmer, a UAW representative and interim bargaining rep from UAW Local 862 in Louisville who participated in the local contract negotiations said, the main hurdles during negotiations focused on getting a minimum in-plant nurse staffing level, ergonomic issues, and “language to improve the culture in skilled trades.”
“This will be the best local agreement the membership has ever seen,” Palmer said.
Year of the hybrid and, maybe, a little hangover from 2023, which was the year of the worker.
Tesla May Face More Worker Action In Sweden
The ongoing resistance by Tesla to accept the worker’s union in Sweden has resulted in a lot of little annoyances (no mail, no trash cleanup) but it hasn’t, thus far, stopped Tesla from having the best-selling EV in Sweden.
Sweden’s unions aren’t giving up, according to Reuters:
Swedish trade union Seko said on Wednesday members may stop installing and servicing Tesla’s (TSLA.O), charging stations in the country in support of union IF Metall’s conflict with the U.S. carmaker over collective agreements.
Tesla is facing pressure in the Nordic countries from powerful employee unions backing Swedish IF Metall’s mechanics who went on strike in October last year demanding a collective agreement with the company.
Will this work? Who knows. Probably not.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Clive, my E39, is getting inspected while I write this in a coffee shop so I need chill coffee shop music. The Shins and their album “Chutes Too Narrow” it is.
The Big Question
How cheap would a Mach-E need to be to buy over a Tesla Model Y if you were in-market?
“…Americans prefer larger vehicles…”
Americans also prefer affordable entry-level vehicles.
Eh, I would argue that “Americans prefer the IDEA of affordable entry-level vehicles.” Let’s be honest, when was the last time a base model ANYTHING was high up on the popularity lists? The 90’s? The 80’s? But we will absolutely lament a lack of cheap commuter cars all day long as luxury pickups and SUVs fly off the lots.
Correct.
Actual car buyers want big cars, want luxury, and don’t want to settle. Car enthusiasts are the ones with idiosyncratic preferences like small size, manual transmissions, etc.
Yep, as soon as cars started being reliable with 100000+ miles on them people started buying big used cars instead of small new cars.
This argument is often used, but I believe we are talking about 2 totally different groups of car buyers.
“Americans also prefer affordable entry-level vehicles.”
If that was true, then cars like the Ford Fiesta, Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, Mazda 2 and Hyundai Accent would have top sellers when they were available.
But the truth is they didn’t sell well because most Americans prefer larger more expensive vehicles with more bells and whistles.
Also Americans are girthy and when you’re 300lbs and your knees are shot, a Yaris isn’t a viable option.
I’m kind of shopping around for cheap EV leases right now – not typically a lease guy, but with this current generation of vehicles, I’m not really interested in owning.
The Mach-e doesn’t do much for me. It’s fine, but doesn’t do much that the Bolt does, for my needs at least. I mean, it’s better in every way – yes – but its fast charging speed still sucks. I’d be looking at a California route 1 version to actually do longer trips, and you’re still at $50k there. The base versions of these just aren’t that great.
The Lightning ER getting down to $55k is a bit more interesting…but I don’t know, that’s still a lot of money. If they dropped the standard range PRO down to the original $40k, and it was tax credit eligible…I’d probably do it.
Otherwise, I’m only going with an EV right now unless it’s totally dirt cheap ($200/mo? Something like that) and saves me money vs my ‘12 Frontier and it’s horrendous efficiency.
My dad has a Mach E. It’s pretty nice, and he likes it, but I’m less impressed with it each time I get in. It looks weird, drives and rides poorly, and I hate that stupid giant screen, but other than that…I’d probably still take one over a Y, but that’s just because I don’t want to send any money Elon’s way.
*Sigh* god, this makes me miss Marchionne. About to do some necromancy to get my chain smoking sweater enthusiast back.
Seriously. Tavares comes across as a mean, antagonistic jerkwad with zero style. Sergio was not that.
In fairness, Sergio could have his moments of being a jerkwad, but at least he knew when to use it to get things done. And he did have a sense of personal style.
I’d consider leasing one but sure as fuck wouldn’t buy an EV in the year of our lord 2024. There’s just too much still up in the air around EV adoption and quite frankly I’m trying to move somewhere I can ride my bike everywhere and I’d rather spend my money on that.
I’ve said that for years. Leasing can make sense, even a five-year lease, because the technology is only going to improve and your car will become a lithium-laden brick that depreciates quickly.
The updated Ram half-tons haven’t even come out yet, and we have to wait a couple weeks to actually see what the new Charger will bring at the end of the year. What other models are going to come out? Jeep has been mute about the Recon and Wagoneer S, so I wouldn’t say they’re coming out this year, and Chrysler has at least a year before they bring out a product for MY2026.
I’d say there’s only one new product coming to CDJR dealerships.
Just you wait next week they’re gonna unveil that
FiatDodge 500 EV with the “Fiat” crossed out and “Dodge” written in with a sharpie.Honestly though, if they had a bunch of Peugeots with hash marks hastily applied over the lions it would at least be a product line.
exactly
I will throw hands with Dodge if they nick another Italian car, half assed facelift it, and call it theirs.
But what if they did that with a French car?
I know what you’re alluding to and that’s fine cause whatever, it’s French????
I’ve been seeing a fair few ads on yt for the new Hornet. In a quick check, I’m seeing the price range from $31.5k to $56k. Given the facilities at which we often do work have a pretty large contingent of Chargers, combined with the ubiquity of CUVs, I won’t be at all surprised to start seeing Hornets popping up quite a bit over the next year or so. The ad features sedans doing burnouts, then chasing the Hornet.
I see these people every 3 months—some monthly—so think I have a decent handle on the demographic. I really can’t say more without possible offensive stereotyping—but I think that ad will find targets. Cars are emotional purchases.
The company that hasn’t ever offered a decent small car in the US is now whining that Americans prefer larger vehicles that require larger batteries.
Good luck selling those Hornets (or your 2 year supply of everything else), jerk.
Are you trying to imply that the Caliber wasn’t a decent small car?
I don’t believe they were Stellantis at that time. I spent a lot of time in rented Calibers and I have to say they weren’t terrible. I wouldn’t buy one, but they were decent for what they were.
I would actually choose Calibers on purpose so I didn’t get stuck with a 300. The interior of the 300 made me sad. So much plastic. Big, terrible slabs of bad plastic.
As someone who knew owners of both Calibers and Jeep Compasses – Calibers in a Jeep hat – let me assure you that they were very far below decent.
They never stranded me and I never felt guilty about getting crumbs in the interior. That’s all I require in a rental. I’d usually put 500-1000 miles on them in a week.
I was obviously younger at the time since you haven’t been able to rent a Caliber in 10 years. I’m not sure I’d have the same opinion of the today. I’m also looking at them through a 5 day ‘ownership’ period. I can put up with almost anything for that long, as long as it’s not a pain in the ass to park and has a badge from an American brand since I was usually visiting factories in the midwest.
Given the experiences I know, you were VERY lucky on the stranded front. “Contemplate buying a lottery ticket” lucky.
I keep on hearing that everyone is moving to the NACS plug, but does that mean they automatically get access to all the Super Chargers?
That’s how the deal is supposed to work, yes. In order to make it the standard, all the vehicles adopting it will be able to work with any NACS charging station. When the adapters come out for the Fords, we’ll see if everything actually works together.
Since Superchargers do not have card interfaces, my understanding is that either the car company will need to make a deal with Tesla or the consumer will have to get a Supercharger account personally. I do not know if either of those options is in place yet.
The deal is supposed to include billing through brand accounts so that you don’t have to have a separate Tesla charging account and app. So, for example, a Mach E owner would be billed through some sort of Ford account…assuming Ford and Tesla can set that up right. I don’t know if that’s been implemented yet, but it’s supposed to be how it works.
Right now there are “Magic Docks” where you can use the Tesla app and connect any vehicle and charge. It sounds like that technology will roll out to all Gen 3 and Gen 4 Tesla chargers and you can use their app for charging.
Everyone of note has a transition plan to NACS. Stellantis is the only one among them that, though is will transition to NACS, hasn’t worked with Tesla to ensure near-term use of Superchargers.
A Mach-E would have to be under $20k for me to buy one over a Tesla, although I would pay up to $30k for a new Mach-E that has access to Tesla’s charging network. This may not be a fair question for me since I would not buy a new Tesla either as I think used EVs as better deals. Hertz is still selling Teslas for as low as $18k. You can get some nice cars for around $22k (I think some also qualify for a used EV tax credit?). That buys you a 2021 or 2022 Model 3 with around 60k miles, which means there is still 5 years or 40k miles left on the battery/drive unit warranty.
I don’t place a lot of value on owning a brand-new car, so I don’t see the point of paying for a new one if I can get a lightly used one with a warranty for 40% off. I don’t see the Mach-E as a particularly interesting or special car, so I would only buy one if I thought it represented a better value than a used Tesla (which I think is currently the best EV value).
The ranges listed on those used Teslas were all VERY low the last time I looked. Made me wonder if the constant supercharging really degraded the batteries. Have you found otherwise? I like a deal, but 120 miles of range is not enough to tempt me.
I purchased a 2021 Model 3 from Hertz that has 89% of its original battery capacity and a range of ~240 miles; that car was $22,800 and looks great. I looked at a few other Teslas for sale at the time and most had similar ranges. None appeared to be heavily degraded.
Here is an ad for one for sale outside of Atlanta. If you zoom in on picture 20 you can see it displays a range of 255 miles. This looks like a solid deal at $22,600.
Used 2022 Tesla Model 3 Base Sedan For Sale in Stone Mountain, GA | 51642 (hertzcarsales.com)
I haven’t seen one that appears to have a heavily degraded battery, but that is why I like that they still have a lot of the factory warranty left. If the battery ends up being heavily degraded, you can probably have it replaced under warranty.
I am curious where you saw a Tesla with only 120 miles of range? I wouldn’t be interested in a car like that either, unless it was extremely cheap.
I think maybe I was looking at this as range. My bad.
Combined Fuel Economy 132 mpge
I am sure you are not the only one who sees the MPGe rating and interprets that as range. I presume the EPA requires that number to be reported, even though it is useless.
Evaluating used EVs would be much easier if there was some sort of standardized reporting for range, energy usage per mile, and battery degradation.
Concur…now that I know I was incorrect, though, these cars are a lot more compelling. Thanks for the correction!
My “wild” guess is that Stellantis will do what it seems to do best: Slap a Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge badge on yet another Fiat. They’ll simply repackage whatever small EV they sell elsewhere and when they do, it will fail spectacularly like all of the other rebadged Fiats that have been released here.
Too bad they’re not doing anything with Citroen because they have some nifty looking cars overseas.
My husband’s already in the tank for the Mach-E, and a Model Y is a non-starter for me, so any financial incentives are just icing.
Also, please continue writing about Carlos Tavares, especially his relationship with his wife … Morgan Fairchild … whom he’s slept with.
I don’t have kids, don’t live down an unpaved logging road, am not obese or overweight, and don’t have back or joint issues that necessitate a high vehicle, so I can’t imagine ever being in the market for any crossover at any price. If one was free, I’d take it to sell it and buy something else
Enjoy these years while you can, bucko.
True that. When I was 50 I would play in baseball scrimmages with my high school team. Now 6 years later I can barley swing a fungo.
Indeed. One day you’ll twist your ankle getting out of bed and then the whole house of cards will start crumbling down
Hell, one day waking up having slept wrong and angering your neck and you see why people shop for vehicles with ease of entry.
Sleeping injuries are kind of a downer
James Mercer from Shins just released a single with the Decemberists called “Burial Ground”. It’s absolutely wonderful.
Mach-E at its current price with the rebate and NACS would be almost tempting if Ford’s current motto wasn’t “Quality is Job 6 or Whatever. We Really Don’t Care Because Y’all Keep Buying F150s!”.
Not to mention threatening to build vehicles elsewhere to avoid UAW labor. Fuck Ford.
The Mach-e has always been built in Mexico and has never been allowed to park in the UAW lot.
If I could buy it with the tax credit, online without dealing with the dealership that has markups all over the place, sure. Also with the Tesla connector and 2 years of free super charging. 0% interest rate
I sincerely doubt you’ll find a Mach E with a markup right now. EV sales have fallen off a cliff and we couldn’t give our extensive inventory away with the previous programs. Whilst they don’t get a federal tax credit any longer, Ford is offering 0% up to 72 months, combined, in my area, with a rebate. Farley has already stated that Ford will be sending free adapters to Mach E owners sometime this year.
I hope Ford starts pulling its head out of its arse, lest I end up living in a van down by the river.
Small electric crossovers are the type of vehicle I’m least interested in (besides maybe small trucks), so there really isn’t an amount of money either the Tesla or Ford could cost that would make me buy one.
Ford Mach-E? Wicked, practically free, cheap if I were buying. Fairly cheap if I were leasing.
In 10 years (the avg time I keep a vehicle) the Mach-E may not be running and will be worth very little. So trade/sale value will be less than ICE vehicles. Add to that, there are better EVs (Model Y) out there right now that I’d take over the Mach-E every day and twice on Sunday.
I wouldn’t buy either of them. For 40-50 grand I’m buying a Civic Type R or Integra Type S…or I’d save 10 grand and get an Elantra N which now has approximately 50% less ugly. If you put a gun to my head and told me I had to choose one of these two I’d still struggle. I hate Musk, I can’t stand Tesla stans, and I find the model Y to be rather unattractive and blobby looking.
However, that charging network. I’d usually pick the not-Tesla but the Mach E makes me irrationally pissed off. I think it’s ugly, I think the interior is nearly Tesla levels of bad, and while I understand why they did it I will never like the fact that they called a CUV a Mustang. Ok Boomer me all you want, but that’s how I feel.
So I guess I’d go Model Y? Yuck. But who cares, in reality I’d be off to the track in my FWD monster than can comfortably seat 4 anyway.
LOL Stellantis doesn’t mention quality/reliability and how most of their cars suck!
I can’t see myself picking either of them. If I had to pick one, I’d pick the Mach E for a slight premium over the Y. But I’d pick an EV6 over either and am looking very hard at the upcoming Equinox EV over that. We’re actually seeing enough decent EVs that it’s hard to justify the Mach E or Model Y, especially with NACS/CCS adapters coming up soon for most brands.
And the person cross-shopping EVs, hybrids, and gassers has so many options that neither the Mach E nor Model Y should really be on any shortlist.
If Ford were to bring back the Flex but as an EV and rename it to GalaxiE and offer it with a retro Country Squire trim package and priced it at $40k, then they’d have a winner. Then they could have a high performance version called the GalaxiE 500 with the Recaro’s from the Raptor R in the front 2 rows
I don’t know why “GalaxiE” name makes me giggle, because I don’t giggle, but it does.
All giggling aside, I think it is a solid idea. Only two things worry me. One, the Galaxy didn’t have an iconic style, but that may work in its favor as a less polarizing retro look. Two,…. I find it a good idea, which means it might not be popular with the greater buying public.
I keep saying that the Mach-E should have been the EscapE, which I like to pronounce Escape-ee, and for the further south market, they could just pronounce it Es-Cop-Ah.
I bet Rev Horton Heat would sell the use of the song for a decent deal.
I would buy the Flex EV. Let’s get you into Ford’s leadership and make it happen.
https://tenor.com/blhOD.gif
I see Flexes around and even 5 year after they went out of production they still look amazing. I’d love one with sliding doors 😉
Did they even sell many Flexes when they were in production? I remember running across a lot of leftover flexes at local Ford dealers the last time I was shopping for a new car.
They looked good, but the interior seemed a lot less spacious or functional than the average minivan. In its biggest year they sold about 35k of them, so the Explorer outsold it 6:1 most years. To make money on that volume, it would be priced more than anyone would be willing to spend on it. Even the Ford Edge sells over 100k / year, and I swear I never see those things.
Then I’d have to put Jesus on the dashboard and blast Clutch every time I drove it.
Free. I have no interest in a BEV. PHEV, on the other hand, yes please.
I can’t afford either, but I’d pick the Ford over the Tesla if it were 25% cheaper in the price range that I could afford. I test drove one. It was surprisingly nice
If the choice is between the two? I’m getting a CPO CT4 and waiting for all the half-assery to sort its self out.
Flush: The goofy looking Not a Mustang vs. a janky Model 3 that needs to fart really badly? The Ford’s put together better and made by a company that’s not run by a manchild, sure, but did you haaaaave to pick two vehicles I don’t like?
…
Write-in: Used Cayenne.
Used Cayenne, why am I NOT surprised? lol. Personally, I’d pick the Macon.
What does the state of Georgia have to do with this? 🙂
I know, we were talking about Wyoming, right?
Cayenne is always the answer, yo.
(The Macan is good, but I gotta tow another parsh with my parsh.)
I see certified current gen Cayennes in the 40s sometimes and I do be thinkin about it….although I’d probably rather have a certified higher trim Macan than a base trim Cayenne
Was looking at Cayennes the other night. Very nice (and surprisingly recent) choices in the low $40k range.
Ford quality is worse than Tesla quality. Deal for the Ford is only for last years model, it doesn’t include 2024 models. I wouldn’t ever buy a Ford over a Tesla at any price. Hell, I wouldn’t drive it for free.
You sound like the kind of guy that would put a “Calvin pissing on Ford logo” sticker on his Cybertruck.
I’d put one on a Lada if I could find a decent priced one in the states.
Don’t put it on anything stainless. I’m sure the adhesive would mess with the surface (like everything else does).