It’s a bad sign when more choice results in less desire, but that seems to be the case with electric cars. More new electric cars and trucks are hitting the market seemingly every week and, yet, a new survey shows that fewer and fewer potential consumers think of those vehicles as something they’d like to own. What’s going on here?
We’re going to explore that in this episode of The Morning Dump, as well as look at the curious case of ZEEKR’s IPO and what it portends for Chinese electric car companies looking to reach outside of their home market.
Plus, more proof that now is the right time to buy a Stellantis product and, hey, President Joe Biden thinks all auto workers in the United States might get unionized. Or, at least, it’s convenient for him to say that.
The One Chart That Shows How Bad It Really Is For Electric Carmakers
Other than the difficult-to-parse colors, I enjoy this chart from S&P Global Mobility that shows a survey of about 8,000 global participants and their openness to purchasing either an electric car or a hybrid car.
What’s amazing to me, here, is that in 2021, at the height of the pandemic, 86% of respondents were open to purchasing an electric vehicle and a whopping 93% were willing to consider a hybrid. In the two years since, according to the survey, consumer desire for electric vehicles has dropped to just 67%, while hybrid purchasing desire slumped to 72%.
Why is this happening? Thankfully, the survey also breaks down some of the reasoning. It’s not necessarily charging networks, as only 46% of the respondents said they were worried about charging time. It’s also not just range anxiety, as most respondents would be content with a car producing less than 300 miles of range.
All of the above are factors, but the biggest factor is affordability according to the study:
[P]rice fatigue has set in, driven by rising interest rates and inventory shortages that have only recently seen relief, said Brian Rhodes, director of connected car and vehicle experience for S&P Global Mobility.
Depending on where an EV is manufactured, changes to the tax-credit program in the US now force consumers to lease – rather than purchase – many models. Frequent media reports about charging network reliability shortcomings have not helped either. At this point in the evolution of EVs, adding more models simply cannot cancel out these issues.
I underlined that last bit because it’s so important. The constant drumbeat of $50-60k EVs is a bummer if you’re even considering something like this, which is why vehicles like the $35k Volvo EX30 are so important.
Granted, since 2019, consumer purchase for both of these drivetrain types has risen and, frankly, the world cannot support 67% of the world buying a new EV yet so there’s still plenty of room for EVs to grow.
Chinese Automakers Need The United States, Too
Here’s a small complaint: Zeekr apparently had a drive of some of their vehicles at Monticello Motor Club, not too far from me, recently. I wasn’t invited. This is a shame. I really want to get inside that Zeekr 09 and try it out.
Why would Zeekr be trying to appeal to journalists in the United States, anyway? Because the Geely Auto-owned company wants to build goodwill ahead of a potential listing on the New York Stock Exchange. This is seemingly part of Geely’s strategy with its subsidiary companies and it makes a lot of sense from a financial standpoint.
The problem is China. Or the United States. Or Taiwan. It all depends on your perspective, but China’s government ultimately gets to decide which companies do or do not list, and the United States gets to decide how particular it wants to be about regulatory issues. Taiwan fits in because Taiwan is, historically, the issue that China and the United States can’t agree on, but it’s also just a proxy for the general interoperability of the two companies, which has been low lately.
The listing of Zeekr isn’t just a big deal for Geely, it’s also an important test of whether the relationship between the U.S. and China is chill or chilled. Here’s Reuters on the big picture:
The listing could mark the first major float in the U.S. by a Chinese company in two years, after the delisting of ride-hailing giant Didi Global from the New York Stock Exchange.
Didi had angered Chinese regulators by pushing ahead with its $4.4 billion New York listing despite being asked to put it on hold.
The episode, together with a longstanding audit dispute between China and the U.S., stalled Chinese companies from seeking U.S. listings. Only six mainland China-based companies launched U.S. IPOs in 2022.
Since then, however, Beijing has softened its stance towards companies looking to list internationally, unveiling a set of rules earlier this year to revive such listings, after the U.S. accounting watchdog and China resolved the audit dispute in December 2022.
I just want some sweet, sweet vans.
There Are So Many Stellantis Products On Dealer Lots
The ongoing saga of Stellantis building cars that American consumers seemingly do not want continues. I joked earlier this year that a strike was probably good for the automaker because it meant it had an excuse to stop building cars it couldn’t sell, but that seems like less of a joke today.
In spite of the strike, the total supply of unsold inventory nationwide across all brands (on lots or in transit) rose to 2.4 million vehicles, up about 62% from last November, when supply constraints were still plaguing the market. Given the current pace of sales, Cox Automotive estimates that this represents a 67-day supply (a good supply is considered somewhere close to the 60-day range).
For Stellantis, though? The Dodge brand is up to a whopping 186-day supply on average, followed by Chrysler at 135 days’ supply, Ram at 129, and Jeep at 123.
While Ford, Lincoln, and Buick are all above the national average (and Toyota and Honda are way below it), no automaker is quite in the position that Stellantis is. So, if you need a new car, expect deals at your local Dodge/Ram/Jeep/Chrysler dealer.
Joe Biden Wants UAW Deals For All U.S. Autoworkers
Donning a bright red UAW tee over his usual shirt-and-tie, President Joe Biden was full of spit and vinegar when he arrived at Belvidere, Illinois yesterday. You can see the above speech and judge how much of it is spit and how much of it is vinegar.
Here’s the key thing he said, after applauding the recent tentative deals:
“But I’m a little selfish, I want this type of contract for all autoworkers, and I have a feeling the UAW has a plan for that,” said Biden. “The future of the automobile industry will be made in America by American union workers.”
That sentiment should be no surprise to anyone who regularly reads this morning news roundup, though whether the UAW can accomplish this or not remains to be seen. It also remains to be seen whether or not the union will officially endorse President Biden, though a meeting like this points to that potentially happening.
The Big Question
Rank the reasons why you wouldn’t buy an EV from the following:
- Cost
- Range
- Performance
- Charging
Some specifics regarding Stellantis’ inventory bloat. Here is the problem:
https://www.autotrader.ca/a/dodge/charger/hamilton/ontario/5_59599156_20230621193825418/
This is a basic-ish Dodge Charger GT. It’s RWD and has the base V6.
And it’s not even new.
And the Stealership wants 50-fucking-thousand-Canadian dollars for it.
You know what these were going for pre-pandemic NEW?
At least CAD$20,000 less. I clearly recall these were selling for CAD$27K to CAD$30K (before tax) all day long in NEW condition!
And you want a new Charger? Well then it costs even more.
Same deal with the Dodge/Chrysler Caravan/Pacifica. Look at this shit:
https://www.autotrader.ca/a/chrysler/grand%20caravan/fergus/ontario/5_59735309_20230811190059489
Fifty fucking thousand for a Grand Caravan SXT??? This is more like a CAD$30,000 vehicle… or maaaaybe CAD$35K tops.
Now mind you, due to inflation, I don’t expect prices to go to the same pre-pandemic dollar amounts.
But even factoring in inflation, the MSRPs on new Jeep, Dodge, Ram and Chrysler vehicles seem to be overpriced by a solid CAD$15,000.
It’s like Stellantis hasn’t gotten the memo that the product shortages are over and they have to dial back their pricing if they want to compete.
So until they plug into reality, fuck ’em. They can hang onto their bloated overpriced inventory until are willing to do some serious pricing cuts.
Yeah, cause in two years they’re not any better and cars are a 2-10 year proposition for people.
So is the chip shortage well and fully over? Or are there still lots full of unfinished chipless cars still lurking out there somewhere waiting to flood the market even more?
It’s mostly, but not completely over:
“On January 17, 2023, ABB chairman Peter Voser told CNBC that he believes the worst of the chip supply crunch has subsided and added that slowing growth has helped balance out supply and demand.[108]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932023_global_chip_shortage
It’s anticipated that it will be completely over by next year.
But the economic slowdown happening now due to higher interest rates has also had an effect of further easing the chip shortage.
I think that easing is more for the modern chips that run computers, gaming consoles and smartphones than the practically obsolete chips cars use. IIRC chip manufacturers were looking to retire those old designs even before the pandemic and when manufacturers canceled their orders in 2020 a lot of auto chip fabs were shuttered which became a problem when demand surged.
It’s hard to find anything not behind a pay wall but the tea leaves that are the headlines in my Google searches indicate automotive chips are still scarce. Which makes me wonder about all those unfinished cars. Are they still unfinished or ate they being trickled into the stream along with cars fresh off the line?
Why I wouldn’t own one…
“There Are So Many OVERPRICED Stellantis Products On Dealer Lots”
There… fixed it for accuracy.
“Rank the reasons why you wouldn’t buy an EV from the following:
For me it’s:
“There Are So Many OVERPRICED Stellantis Products On Dealer Lots”
There… fixed it for accuracy.
Right? If overstock is such an issue the solution is simple, drop prices until that excess is gone. Or convince the government to use excess taxpayer money to buy and shred it for very important and 100% valid *reasons* we mere mortals cannot fathom nor be bothered to have explained in any way but a Chewbacca defense.
Sounds like the perfect use case for a gently used 3800 Buick.
Cost
Touch screens rather than ergonomic controls
Charging
(range – they seem okay nowadays)
That’s it.
Cost, range and charging are tied, then performance. (Nearly every EV I read about, or ride in, seems to have fairly ridiculous acceleration specs so that to me is kind of irrelevant. Anything under (say) seven seconds to sixty always seemed a bit of an indulgence for actual grown ups.)
FWIW I continue to think PHEVs (like my ’19 Volt) are a responsible bridging tech and hope to see more innovative models appearing soon.
My ranking would be something like…
One, Cost.
(small gap)
Two, Charging
(small gap)
Three, range
(small gap)
Four, general comfort, privacy concerns, safety, all the other unlisted things we judge cars on
(enormous gap)
Five, performance. I drive a Prius v and used to drive a van. I don’t give a crap about performance. If it can go 0-60 in 11 seconds that’s all I ask. I wish performance wasn’t ranked so highly by car buyers, but here we are.
It’s not cost, range, performance or charging for me, it’s that there aren’t any new EVs that I want to drive, much less own.
I mostly buy sports cars and RWD coupes because I like driving on the UK’s tiny twisty B-roads. Where is the EV version of a MR2, Miata, Silvia, RX7, 86, Z (Nissan or BMW) or Elise? Apart from the original Tesla Roadster (built by Lotus) there isn’t a production EV I’d actually want to drive.
Ok, so there are some EV hypercars, but I have no more use for a 1000+bhp in a wide chassis than I do a Honda E.
When the E-Cayman comes out, that’s when cost is going to be a problem for me, but until then EVs aren’t a choice.
Are there any EVs without giant touch screens? If I can have functional, workable buttons, switches, and gauges, I might consider an EV. As it is, nearly all new cars are unacceptable to me.
That’s the level of detail I’ll only get to if they make a car I actually like enough to go look at.
How about the new Caterham V? Small, lightweight, not too excessive of a touch interface? It only comes out in 2025 at the earliest though
I’ll have a look…
It looks nice! Let’s hope it sells like a 7, and not like a 21.
“The One Chart…” graphic is, perhaps, the worst visual representation of data I have ever seen on this site. I mean, Wow!
I scrolled straight to the comments to blast that chart. It’s so bad I think someone is trying to hide something.
Cost. I was all in on the Lightning before Ford mucked about with pricing. Same with the Silverado EV. I will also add one more category: Form Factor. Where are the affordable EV work rigs and family haulers? Nobody seems to want to make a small EV van for the US market. The ID Buzz cargo exists, but we don’t get one here, and if we did it would probably cost $60k. For that price I can drive my 2006 Grand Caravan another 240,000 miles.
Maybe Dodge will come through with the series-electric hybrid drive. I think that is the last link it the change to all EV. Get those on the market in a reasonable price range and across form factors with 100+ EV range and that will get people across the gap.
There’s been a TON more anti-EV (mis?)information flooding the zeitgeist in the past year. I wouldn’t doubt that the oil companies are funding some of it since we know that they’ve been doing it for decades with climate research. Then there’s the prices that keep going up and up and up and up without wages also going up. Electric prices are also sky high.
My dad’s neighbor bought a Jeep EV (not sure which). She’s retired, and don’t go many places but somehow her electric bill went up $250 a month (according to him, so who knows what the truth is)? Assuming that’s the truth, I figure she must be doing SOMETHING wrong because that makes zero sense, but also at 22-24mpg, if you went 300 miles a week, you’re going to be spending $50-60+ a week on gasoline assuming $4/gallon, so that’s roughly equivalent.
Did she leave her oven on 24/7 or something? Is it forced air electric heating in her home?
At just under $0.11 per kWhr for home charging, it’s $7 for a full charge on my EV. We charge once a week, and that’s not actually a full charge because of how much is left in the battery… so it’s more like $5.50/week. 22 bucks a month.
I spent twice that a WEEK in gas driving a freaking Sonic Turbo that preceded it. Not exactly a gas guzzler there. Now, my home electric bill DID jump this summer, but that was from adding 5 portable air conditioners and 2 gaming desktop computers to the home.
(Oh and for the inevitable “BuT cOaL!” folks here, my power company overwhelmingly uses hydro, nuclear, and wind. Fossil fuels are less than 2% of the mix.)
“My dad’s neighbor bought a Jeep EV (not sure which). She’s retired, and don’t go many places but somehow her electric bill went up $250 a month (according to him, “
I bet the real story is that the bill went up TO $250/month over the summer… when she had the AC cranked up.
But no way could that be the cause of the high bill
No siree.
It’s OBVIOUSLY the fault of her new “electric Jeep”… which is actually just a plug-in hybrid (since Jeep doesn’t sell any true BEVs yet). At most, it costs a couple of dollars per charge.
/Sarcasm
I’m not willing to give up the economy and convenience of my ice pickup for an overpriced ev truck. As I have mentioned, I live off-grid in Arizona. I bought my 2019 Ram 1500 brand new in March of 2020 for half msrp, $20,052, and it gets 25 mpg with the 3.6L Pentastar. I would have to put in $30k in solar to charge an ev on top of the $60k minimum for the ev for LESS capability in towing, range and SITTING. I can park my truck for 3 weeks and ignore it. Then when I need it, jump in and drive. An ev would be dead if it wasn’t constantly charging. And there’s exactly 1 public charging station within 50 miles and God help me if I was going to drive across southern New Mexico to El Paso from here. There’s not a single charger between Rodeo NM and Anthony TX-230 miles. Sorry, I won’t give up a single convenience or spend 1 single penny more for an ev, nor risk being stranded in bfe with no cell coverage.
I keep reading these articles about how there should be cheap Jeeps or whatever. Where? Where are they? Not within 500 miles of me according to my searches.
Cost, charging, range, performance
100% range. I live in ND where 300 miles is a trip I take often. These can be off main highways as well. While the claims of 300 mile or so range are great, they don’t deliver that in winter, and it is generally recommended that batteries should be not charged beyond 80%. That is just for regular travel during the year. We like to go on camping vacations for weeks at a time during the summer. Some places don’t even have cell service, yet alone charging stations.
Don’t think I am an EV hater. I would truly love to have an electric car, but for my family it is really not a logical buy. We’re leaning toward a PHEV for our next vehicle. At least we would have the electric for around town and short 30-40 mile trips we take regularly.
Although I have 2 electric vehicles, with the impending charging ‘standard’ actually becoming a thing, and the high price of most of them now, I totally get people holding off.
Consider that 4 years ago there was the Bolt, Leaf, also Focus Electric, Soul EV, Fiat 500e, e-Golf, Niro/Kona EVs, Mini Cooper EV, all around $30k or less with tax credits. Yes most had only about 100 miles range, but were otherwise comfortable and made great sense as a commuter car.
Out of all those listed above, other than the Bolt which is temporarily cancelled, there’s just the Kona/Niro/Leaf in the US, and they no longer get tax credits, so it’s just whatever is left for Chevy Bolts on the lots that can be had reasonably cheap, or the Leaf, but the Leafs have such a bad rep with air cooled batteries and only do ChaDeMo charging so can’t even use the NACS with an adapter.
So not only is it holding out for new evs that can use Tesla’s charging network, it’s also anyone wanting a cheaper 2nd commuter car to dip their toes in now has very limited options.
Picked up a 23 bolt euv in Jan for msrp at 32k – 7500 tax break – 500 Costco coupon. 25k! Such a great deal we later pickedup a bolt ev, in July with all the safety optinks for msrp 29k – 7500 again – 500 health care worker … fantastic ev for 21 k!!!!!!
If you can charge at home and have ice options for trips over 250 miles they’re the bargain of the year (decade?)
67% of people are still open to EVs though, up from 58% in 2019. Pandemic years seem to be outliers for a great many things, like bizarre data points..
I think a relatively new barrier to EV adoption is environmental impact. I think as candid information comes out from manufacturers – eg Polestar who are being quite upfront about this – regarding the environmental impact of the manufacturing and the point in the cars lifecycle when it does or doesn’t have a benefit compared to a new or used typical ICE car – that really puts a cooler on it for me. “The number of kilometres needed to be driven to reach break-even for the Polestar 2 variants, compared with XC40 ICE changes with variant and electricity mix. “Standard range Single motor” charged with wind power reaches break-even after 40 000 km, while “Long range Dual motor” charged with global electricity mix reaches break-even after 110 000 km” – https://www.polestar.com/dato-assets/11286/1630409045-polestarlcarapportprintkorr11210831.pdf pg 23 – okay its one very specific study, but especially if people are just going to be leasing them and presumably swapping for something else in 3-5 years, they may not even reach the break even point and therefore are doing the environment MORE harm buy buying an EV. Of course every new thing has a negative impact in its manufacturing footprint.
It’s important to remember that the impact of a new car lasts beyond the first owner, though. A pretty significant portion of vehicles are going to be on the road after 68,500 miles (over 110,000 km), whether with the first owner or someone else.
The person leasing an electric vehicle for its first 30,000 miles isn’t just reducing their own footprint, but increasing availability of EVs for people buying lightly used.
The problem is that the batteries have a massive ecological impact, and most of these batteries last between six to eight years before needing to be replaced. Cobalt mining and the manganese chemical separation required to get pure cobalt is just as damaging as coal mining. Either we need better public transport and more of it, or we need an entirely different battery formulation.
I’m absolutely with you on more and better public transport being the better solution. Also, the constant push for more consumption, rather than less, needs to be changed.
That said, 6-8 years is a very low estimate for the life of the battery. Most estimates for current batteries are 10-20 years. Still not great, and still require a lot of resources, especially when we pack a ton of batteries into large vehicles instead of making more efficient vehicles. I’d like to see efficiency improved and new chemistries explored, and I hope we are close to some breakthroughs. Silicon-carbon batteries could be ideal, if we can perfect them.
They last significantly longer than 6-8 years before replacement. Federal law maintains an 8 year warranty for traction batteries, so the vast majority of batteries have to be at least that long to not bankrupt the company. What they are warrantied to in most cases is 80% of original capacity. (There’s law covering that part too, but I don’t remember it off hand). Battery degradation is also nonlinear, after the first drop which happens fairly quickly to 95% or so, degradation slows waaay down presuming the batteries are kept in sane operating ranges. (I.e, not a first gen Nissan Leaf)
Cobalt mining and the manganese chemical separation required to get pure cobalt is just as damaging as coal mining.
This is just a lie. There’s no other word for it. The CO2 emissions from coal and other fossil fuels are a far, far bigger problem than localized environmental damage.
Most cobalt mines are strip mines and a pretty good chunk of the ones in western China are mountaintop removal mines just like the coal mines in West Virginia. What’s worse is that harsh chemicals are used to separate the manganese and sometimes iron from the cobalt, because you can’t really do traditional forge ore separation at the scale needed. Coal burning is worse for CO2, but the shit they use to get the cobalt at the sorting facilities is a chemical mixture that often makes it’s way into the water table and stays for decades while even carcinogenic coal slurry tends to dissipate to tolerable levels (although not safe) within a few years.
Cost. Charging. Range. Performance. It used to be when a car was a poor seller the manufacturer would put some money on the hood and the dealer would discount the price while telling you that you were robbing them. Now a car can be a poor seller and the dealers won’t budge. They’ll fold their arms and let you walk.
For me it’s cost, charging, range and performance. They are pricey, you have to install a charger at home, etc.
But charging away from home? Think about keeping 2 kids, who are already plotting each others’ murders, happy an entertained while waiting for a car to charge doesn’t sound like fun. And that’s if you can find a charger!
Range…meh. if I had an electric for commuting, I could rent something bigger and gassier for a weekend if needed.
Right now, a hybrid is a better option.
“Think about keeping 2 kids, who are already plotting each others’ murders, happy an entertained”
In my day that wasn’t a problem. The hum of the differential, the blare of AM radio, mom and dad’s nasty cigarette smoke, dehydration, heat exhaustion from the scorching SoCal sun coupled with a lack of A/C and the wafts of unburned hydrocarbons and CO from the exhaust put us kids to sleep lickety-split.
Sure we woke up eventually with horrible pounding headaches but whatever, at least we were quiet and that’s what really mattered.
I guess it’s basically Range, but EV Longevity is a concern for me. I’m not looking to trade in my phone, er, car every 2 years, and I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time. If the battery is going to give up (a la the Autopian Leaf), I don’t want to be stuck with the decision to find a new battery or face a down payment on a newer car.
All of the early adopters have already bought EV’s, so now you have to convince the general public, who are much more price-sensitive and are concerned about range.
For me personally, I don’t believe in buying any cars new or paying over $5k for a car. Which means that it’ll be a long time until any EV is in that price range, and who knows if any of them will have a useful battery pack at that age.
The other reason I won’t be buying an EV is because I don’t have to. Nobody is making me buy one, and there are still tons of great ICE vehicles that I’d love to own. I just recently bought a 2003 BMW 530i 5-speed for $3500, put a tank of gas in it, and then drove it 484 miles on that same tank of gas. Can’t really beat that.
I had never bought a car for more than $5000, and only 1 automatic. My wife kept pestering me to get a 2nd car she could drive (automatic), and nice than my old BMWs with falling headliners. I was initially looking at used compliance EVs or PHEVs, but got a Model 3 with the LFP battery. Fun to drive, battery will last me 15 years, kids can watch TV or play games while charging on road trips, no stops at gas stations while driving regularly, and I’ve driven 9000 miles and paid $20 in electricity. (Charge at work; and free 3 months supercharging)
“and nice than my old BMWs with falling headliners.”
FWIW replacing a headliner is an easy $100 DIY job if you’ve got the time and room.
No chance in hell of me financing anything with $260 in my bank account and a credit score in the 500’s. So no need to try and convince me, ahah. I’m a cheap bastard, but more importantly, a poor bastard. I can fix all my BMW’s myself so they’re actually fairly inexpensive to own. I even got my girlfriend into an old BMW (E46 330i) and she’s fine with it.
I loved my E46 (325Ci), but my 330i E90 is much better in every way except weight. Interior work is a struggle for me. I’d rather replace engine gaskets and suspension parts than plastic trim or mouse fur.
Having worked on a ton of E46’s, E90’s, and F30’s at my shop, I’ll take an E46 any day. Parts are cheaper, they don’t use expensive and awful-to-replace electric water pumps, the suspension is simpler and cheaper, etc.
Maybe the BMW ownership is why you’re poor… LOL
Tick..tick..tick…
What’s that a reference to?
The expensive time bomb of the cheap BMW. You wouldn’t be the the first nor the last to fall for that siren’s call.
All I can say to that is: lol.
I’ve owned 35 cars in the past 9 years, 29 of them were old BMW’s. I run a shop that specializes in repairing old BMW’s. Nothing scares me. I’ve replaced more timing chains and engines than I can count, and I’ve taken multiple BMW’s apart to the bare shell (and put them back together).
But yes, cheap BMW ownership is not for the faint of heart. If you’re not mechanically inclined, it can be extremely expensive.
Good for you. I’ve never owned a BMW. The folks I’ve known who have ended up regretting it. That’s been enough to keep me away.
I’ve had five BMWs, one possibly the all-round best car I’ll ever own (Z4 Coupe) and one the least reliable and most failure prone car I’ve ever had (E36 323i), and I’ve owned French cars.
The highs are worth the lows. Even dreadful 323i’s 2.5 litre straight six (remember when BMW badges made sense?) was absolutely glorious, when it was working.
The year was 1999. My buddy bought a cheap’94 740iL. He was soooo proud! He had MADE IT! His first car had been a hand me down ’67 1600 so he was predisposed to love the brand. Within a few months the transmission on that cheap 740 had failed. The repair was more than the value of the car. Off to the scrap heap it went.
My stepdad bought a X5 4.4L. He was soooo proud! He had made it a long time before but still, BMW! Within a few months it started nickel and dining itself to death. Three failed door seals, electrical gremlins, and other problems kept it in the shop more than on the road. After a couple of years he wanted to get rid of it but thanks to an erroneous CarFax report showing it had been in a bad collision his trade in was worth far less. Still he did it because by that time he was so soured on that thing and BMWs in general he just wanted to be rid of the damn thing. He considered his Ferraris reliable in comparison.
A few years ago my same friend with the 740iL showed up in a high mileage e39 530i. 20 years had passed so the trauma had finally waned enough to give BMW another shot. Within a few months the car was gone. I asked what had happened. He didn’t want to talk about it.
Those are my most direct experiences with the brand. Most other folks I’ve talked to have had a love/hate relationship too. My problem is I am someone for whom the highs would not balance the lows. I don’t drive fast (and don’t care for those who do), I don’t track, I work on my own cars but prefer not to have to. My particular brand of enthusiasm is for appliance cars; dead nuts reliable, low hassle, low costs to operate economy cars, preferably with sliding doors. DTs stories of his refurbished i3 have piqued my interest in the brand more than anything. The fact BMW itself doesn’t consider the i3 a “real” BMW is in my mind a plus.
It definitely sounds like you are not in the target demographic for a BMW, haha. And that’s fine, more old BMW’s for the rest of us!
My brand of enthusiasm requires a manual transmission, a nice straight-6 or V8 engine, and engaging driving dynamics. I average 3k miles a month, take a ton of road trips, regularly drive on canyon roads and mountain roads, drive fast on interstates, and occasionally go to the track.
Somehow despite buying the worst/cheapest BMW’s I can get my hands on, with salvage/missing titles and 300k+ miles, I’ve never really been stranded by them. I have a pretty strict rule of only buying naturally aspirated BMW’s with manual transmissions, so I think that’s helped.
“It definitely sounds like you are not in the target demographic for a BMW”
And that demographic would be ‘sadomasochists‘, right?
LOL
I was once. After a while I realized plenty of cheap beaters can cruise the speed limit from A to B just as well as any BMW. Anything more than that is a waste. Handling? Maybe BMWs handle better but so what? Public streets aren’t a place to use that capability.
Sure there are other trade offs but I’ll take much better gas mileage, cheaper insurance, free weekends and lower maintainence costs over things I can’t or won’t use. But each to their own.
“The year was 1999. My buddy bought a cheap’94 740iL. ”
LOL… I already know how this story is gonna go…
And your direct observations are pretty much the same as my first hand observation of BMW ownership.
I have relatives in Europe (German speaking) who call them Bayerische Mist Wagen… which is German for Barvarian Manure Wagons..
We are just not the right demographic for BMW ownership.
And that demographic would be ‘sadomasochists’.
FWIW my Mazda does share a few parts with BMWs and Fords so I guess I am a bit of a sadomasochist.