Good morning! Today on Shitbox Showdown, we’ve got two old American cars, both with their gearshifts on the floor. One moves back and forth and side-to-side, while the other one only moves back and forth. You can probably guess which is which, but we’ll get to them in a minute.
Yesterday’s Showdown wasn’t really fair. Of course nobody wants either of those; they’re both essentially functional scrap metal. The Ranger could still earn its keep for a while, I suppose, until the frame rot (which is almost certainly there) finally catches up to it, but that Subaru is a goner. But then again, some cars can manage to survive with terminal rust for a good long while, like the infamous Chicago Cutlass, recently photographed in person by Opposite Lock member Shop-Teacher. Could that crusty Subaru live on to one day be known as the “Madison Legacy”? Stranger things have happened…
Anyway, when faced with an impossible choice, you overwhelmingly picked the one that had already found a new home, and that’s probably the right call. Really, I just wanted to show them to you. It was sort of the Shitbox Showdown version of “look at this gross bug I found.”
Now then: For decades, the default location for the gearshift lever in American cars, be they manual or automatic, was on the right side of the steering column. A lot of cars had bench seats, and three seatbelts in front. You had to go up in trim level or options to find bucket seats and a center console with a floor-mounted gearshift. One of today’s cars is so equipped; the other, I suspect, has had its gearshift relocated to the floor, in front of a bench seat. (You can still fit three across in such a car, but certain gears can get a little awkward.) Both of them run, at least, and neither of them, you’ll be happy to hear, is rusted out. Let’s check them out.
1975 Plymouth Valiant – $2,000
Engine/drivetrain: 225 cubic inch overhead valve inline 6, three-speed (probably) manual, RWD
Location: Marana, AZ
Odometer reading: 182,000 miles
Runs/drives? So they say
This car should need no introduction to the Autopian faithful. I’ve featured a number of them over the past year and a half here, David drove one through his last winter in Michigan, and the legend that is Project Cactus, while it has a pickup bed and a mirror-image interior, is technically a Valiant. There’s a lot to like about Chrysler’s A-body: the venerable “Slant Six” engine, a simple but attractive bodystyle, and your choice of either a Torqueflite automatic or – as in this case – a good old manual gearbox. I don’t know whether this is a three-speed or a four-speed, but I’m guessing three, since it’s a basic four-door sedan.
This one has what looks like a Hurst shifter on the floor, which I don’t think came as standard equipment on a ’75 Valiant. It may or may not have originally had a column shifter; it’s hard to tell from the photos. The car runs and drives, according to the seller, but it looks like it has given up its battery somewhere along the line. Best bring one with if you plan to drive it home.
Outside, it looks like a typical Arizona car: faded, dull, but not rusty. At first I thought it was primer-gray, but looking more closely, I think it’s actually that robin’s egg blue that you see quite a lot on old Darts and Valiants. Fortunately, it doesn’t have a vinyl top; even in the desert, a Valiant would find a way to rust out under there.
Inside, things aren’t so great. The upholstery is toast, and the dashboard appears to be melted. (Hopefully it still has the radio.) The door panels look all right, so if you can find a dash top, and reupholster the front seat (which isn’t hard; I’ve done it on my truck), it might be presentable.
1977 Ford Thunderbird – $2,500
Engine/drivetrain: 400 cubic inch overhead valve V8, three-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Odometer reading: 104,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep
Now we go from a powder-blue sedan to a great big Bird. Ford’s two-seat-sports-car-turned-personal-luxury-coupe was riding high in the ’70s, selling nearly a million examples over the three years of this generation. Believe it or not, this monster was downsized significantly from the ’76 model. It’s still huge, though, and still powered by a hulking 400 cubic inch engine putting out way less power than you’d expect.
It runs and drives, according to the ad, but that’s all the information we get. The mileage in the ad is listed as 34,000, but the odometer is shown in one photo and reads 04725. It probably has only gone around once, based on its condition, but you never know.
The inside looks pretty nice. The seller calls the upholstery “leather,” but I’m sure it’s actually just vinyl. The bucket seats and center console are uncommon; most Thunderbirds of this era I’ve seen have a split bench and the shifter on the column. The floor shifter looks a little weird in there, probably because it’s the same chrome T-handle seen in millions of Mustang IIs and Pintos. The driver’s side seat belt looks frayed and should probably be replaced – technically you’re supposed to replace them every 10-15 years anyway, but who does that?
It’s not the nicest 7th-generation T-Bird I’ve ever seen – that would be the one that belongs to my old high-school buddy Scott, who has owned his since 1989 and kept it flawless – but it’s not bad. The copper-colored paint is a bit faded, and the vinyl top looks a little sun-beaten, but it’s basically presentable. The photos in the ad show some kind of oversized aftermarket wheels, but the seller says the original wheels and wheel covers are included as well.
Both of these cars fall into that “not really worth restoring, but a fun project to tinker with” category. From the sounds of it, you could drive either one home. Fix ’em up as much or as little as you see fit, and drive them on the weekends. Who cares if they’re not all shiny and perfect? They’ve got character. Which one will it be?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
Trivia note — the rubber cover over the center of the steering wheel on the T-Bird may have been replaced at some point. It’s probably from an LTD, judging by the center logo. Thunderbirds had a T-Bird specific insignia. Also, T-Birds generally had the “deluxe” wheel center cover which used a wider plastic-wood piece that went end-to-end and covered 2/3 of the height, and a full-with horn strip also inlaid with a plastic-wood bit along the bottom 1/3. If cruise control was equipped, then there were a pair of rocker buttons at the ends of the upper strip.
The covering shown in the picture was used on a lot of more plebian Fords. It might have shown up on the most stripped-down T-Birds, but that seems a little unlikely for one equipped with the 400 V8 and the center console.
The other possibility is, of course, that the assembly-line crew gave no shits that day and slapped on the nearest horn/wheel cover that at least matched the color and sent it down the line.
I’m saying this with great admiration, but how the f do you know / remember this arcana?
I’m just another case of Autopian readers and the hivemind’s seemingly infinite capability for recalling obscure automotive minutiae. 😀
That, and my family had a ’77 T-Bird new. And before that, young me practically memorized the brochure. And we had quite a few Fords in the family following that particular T-Bird. Yet another variation of that wheel center molding was used on my ’83 pickup, with a small Ford oval molded into the center where the emblem goes, and no plastic wood at all. The truck had manual steering and therefore a larger-diameter steering wheel, so Ford molded the wheel with a thicker plastic profile at the ends of the spokes which continued the profile of the rubber cover that would have been too short to cover the whole area.
If you look closely at 1970s-1980s Fords, they use a lot of interchangeable standardized parts across all their brands and model lineups. In many cases, the main parts were interchangeable and they just had provisions for specific trim to make them “Ford” or “Mercury” or “Lincoln” parts. Or “T-Bird”/”LTD”/”Cougar”/”Mark V” and so on. A lot more economizing going on compared to GM, which through the same period had entire groups of trim moldings and upholstery that were specific to each brand under the GM umbrella. Even though the chassis were standardized, there was a lot more differentiation in bodywork and trim at GM.
It was the K-car formula before the K-car — no surprise really, since Lee Iacocca was involved. If you drove Fords from the 1970’s and then stepped into K-cars of the 80’s you’d see exactly the same manufacturing economies at play — Although cash-strapped Chrysler’s economic condition made it even more obvious, and initially limited make/model differentiation to purely cosmetics. A Reliant/Aries/LeBaron were absolutely the same car except for the exterior trim. In the beginning, even the interiors were virtually identical save for a badge here or there and the Lebaron’s upholstery in particular. Ford in the 70’s at least offered a little more minor differentiation in suspension setup/ride and some option packages, plus more model-specific body panels. But Iacocca’s style of manufacturing economics was steeped in standardization before it became a general watchword and best practice in manufacturing in later decades. And it makes for some interesting options when older cars are repaired, rebuilt, modified, and restomodded.
Amazing.
Slant 6? Oh, definitely that.
I had a 78 Ford LTD II, which was almost identical to this T-Bird. It did have a much nicer cloth bench front seat than these vinyl buckets here, and a 351 Windsor instead of the Ford 400. But nearly identical in the how it drives and what you might want it for. If I get another road yacht, it needs 4 doors, not 2. I’d rather have today’s Ford in 4 doors, and today’s Plymouth in 2 doors.
The Valiant wins. It’s a really nice example of 1970s basic transportation, which is far more desirable to me than a 1970s version of luxury. The Ford would be back on the road again quicker, but neither would be my daily, so the longer time commitment of the Valiant doesn’t bother me.
The T-Bird, no question – because my dad bought a new one in 1977, black over red velour, and it was one handsome disco malaise machine. The condition of the interior on this one is unbelievable. I wonder if it has been reupholstered at some point?
I must admit I did have to hesitate over the Valiant for a moment, though, for one reason: I have a lifelong dream of getting this or a similar Dodge Dart, and making the mother of all sleepers – 5.7 or 6.2 Hemi under the hood, secret suspension upgrades, and the quietest exhaust note I can manage, to keep its secrets. It would roll on upgraded 16″ steel wheels with the original dog dish hubcaps, and I would dress in Grandma drag and go trolling for people to embarrass at stop lights.
Obviously a motivated seller here on the T Bird. /s (Covid masks always are a huge selling point, right?)
Seem to recall an ass chewing in 1977 when working at the local FORD dealer.
And a crazy young thing who worked as the cashier there. She had a bad habit of forgetting her underwear in the back seat of these after we would do vehicle inventory checks. After finding several pairs of forgotten panties the dealership owner was a little more pissed than pleased by her forgetfulness.
I miss being 20 years old again.
T Bird for the win today.
MIOD [Mental Image of the Day]
> an ass chewing
Whose ass was chewed?
Don’t answer that
Despite being a big fan of Mopar and particularly the “leaning tower of power” that is the wonderful 225ci slant six engine, the ’75 Valiant was an utter piece of crap. This was the vehicle that kicked off my family’s exclusively Mopar era, including said ’75 Valiant, a ’77 Dodge Aspen wagon, ’77 and ’82 Dodge pickups, and two 80s K-cars of unremembered vintage, a Dodge 400 and an Aries K wagon.
Our Valiant must have been a Monday or Friday car, because it gave us a fair number of problems until was totaled in 1977 when an old man slammed into us. We were unhurt, but the Valiant was done. Despite the horrible reputation of the Aspen/Volare pair our Aspen wagon was a perfectly decent car and the one I learned to drive in, followed promptly by the ’77 pickup with 3-on-the-tree where I learned how to drive a manual. Those pickups were awesome, by the way, malaise era or not they got used hard and did the jobs without complaint other than feeding them the occasional ballast resistor.
The T-Bird is at least presentable and will provide some nice, comfortable (and slow) entertainment. 0-60 would probably be in the 12 or 13 second range like it was in my ’73 Ford Galaxie 500 with a 351W.
It’s the T-Bird for me today.
” What’s the word? Thunderbird! “
I choose Valiant, because it is exempt from California smog check. Repaint it in “DUEL” orange. Buy some Clifford Performance bits and rebuild the Leaning Tower of Power.
That dash on the Valiant scares me! I think V8 cruisin’ in the slightly downsized T-Bird is the way to go. I’ll put on my large brim felt hat with the large plume and leopard pattern jacket and cruise the boulevard!
This was harder than I thought, but the likelihood of it having AC meant I went T-bird in the end.
These are often harder than I think they will be! Mark is really good at making this challenging when he wants to.
I know, right?!? It’s the little things that can make a big difference!
Really? One is an utterly trashed crusher, the other is an actual car you can use and give people rides in.
I was prepared to vote for the Valiant, but the T-bird is in pretty good shape. Since I wouldn’t keep the Plymouth (rather have a Dart), the Ford is something different. They glide down the highway, too.
T-bird, easy. Those valiants rusted out at the lower passenger side windshield so bad, almost every one of them I’ve seen gets a glovebox full of water after a rain storm. Plus, it’s in tangibly worse shape than the Ford.
Wish that Valiant was a Duster, but it still gets my vote for the 225 and manual. That year Chrysler offered three manual stick transmissions, all optional on the base cars, as this appears to be. With the 225, you could get 3-speed (about $25 extra) or 3-speed w/overdrive (about $125 extra). I’m pretty sure the 4-speed was only available with a V-8. This likely a base 3-speed stick.
I’m really tempted to get the Ford as a prank gift for X-Mas: gift them the keys and say “I got you a classic Thunderbird!!”
Thanksgiving is almost here, so I’ll take that big stuffed bird.
These are cars that I kinda like, but don’t love either one. I chose the Valiant because it had the manual.
I’m not sure whether to be encouraged or worried by the Damp-Rid in the back seat of the T-Bird.
Voted for the Thunderbird because it is so much cleaner inside, and I don’t know if I trust the column-to-floor shifter swap in the Valiant. If the Valiant still had the column shifter I would have voted for it.
I like a A-body / slant6 combo a lot, and don’t have much affection for PLCs, so this one is easy
the vote’s not showing what the comments are, I voted Valiant, lots you can do, I’m sure you can find repro dashboards (or one from a pick and pull), and you can easily redo the seat, then its a stick to boot! Could be a fun car for cars and coffee etc.
Where do you live that a pick n pull will have 1970s valiant?
Much respect to the Valiant, but we’ll take the T-Bird. That “basket-handle” roof still looks cool, and how can I say no to hidden headlights?
Also: +1 for Modest Mouse reference!
I’ll prowdly roll with that slicktop Valiant. That shifter w/bench seat reminds me of early Road Runners, and it’s the only goody in a pretty bleak cockpit.
But it’s just enuf.
Valiant all the way. There are years of the Thunderbird that I like, but not a single 1970s model year is one of them.
I appreciate that the Tbird owners are masking up but Great Geebus take your damn used masks out of the car before taking your “for sale” photos!
Cripes!
Anyways, today I liked both options pretty much equally but ended up voting for the leaning tower of power.
The one good sign of masks in a car – that implies it’s been used in the last few years, which means it’s probably a runner.
This.
I like the Valiant more than I should, so I voted for that one.
There used to be a 69 Dodge Dart nearby driving around, in that awesome copper color.
I am of the opinion that the ’68 is the most attractive Dart, and hope to own one in ‘vert form someday.