The original Apple iPhone’s chief designer could see more physical buttons returning to cars, Dodge unveils a special Hellcat Redeye, Tesla gets sued again. All this and more in today’s issue of The Morning Dump.
Welcome to The Morning Dump, bite-sized stories corralled into a single article for your morning perusal. If your morning coffee’s working a little too well, pull up a throne and have a gander at the best of the rest of yesterday.
Former Apple Chief Designer Sees A Need For Buttons In Cars
Iconic modern Apple products are marked by minimalism, although the chief designer of many of those products recently expressed a need for physical controls in cars. Former Apple Chief Designer Sir Jony Ive spoke at The Code Conference alongside Apple CEO Tim Cook and businessperson Laurene Powell Jobs about the latter’s late husband’s legacy, among other things. The discussion, led by journalist Kara Swisher, moved to the topic of multi-touch interfaces and even lightly touched on physical buttons in cars, as Australian automotive website Drive pointed out, writing:
“I do think there are fabulous affordances with interfaces like, for example, multi-touch [the technology allowing for pinching and zooming on phone screens],” Ive said.
“But we do remain physical beings. I think, potentially, the pendulum may swing a little to have interfaces and products that will take more time and are more engaged physically.”
When the panel’s moderator – journalist Kara Swisher – asked if Ive was referring to cars, the former Apple design boss responded, “for example”.
I haven’t watched the conference, but it’s worth noting that The Verge‘s live blog of the conference includes a slightly different quote from Ives – a response to Swisher asking for his thoughts on how things are currently designed. The quote reads:
“We’re so preoccupied with what we’re wrestling with,” Jony says, deferring. “There are fabulous affordances with interfaces like multitouch. But we do remain physical beings, and the pendulum might swing a little to have interfaces that are more tactile and more engaging physically… there are examples where the interface is driven inappropriately by multitouch.”
[…]
Kara asks Jony how he’d design a car and he laughs. “You know I can’t answer that.”
While touchscreens do have a place in phones, it’s generally not a good idea to operate a phone while driving. Physical buttons and knobs allow for muscle memory to take over, keeping the driver focused on the road. It’s more than just good cabin design, it’s good safety practice.
[Editor’s Note: I have to say that I love the buttons in my older cars. A knob for volume, a rocker to change the channel, a rotary dial for vent selection, an adjacent rotary dial for the temperature setting, a slider for dome lights – these buttons all look and feel different, and that means pressing them doesn’t require me to look away from the road. Some automakers have HVAC and volume/channel-change physical buttons, and some even have them on the steering wheel. Plus, many have voice-command. But there’s still quite a heavy reliance on the touchscreen these days; some of that makes sense, since infotainment systems these days have so many functions that they’d require scores of physical buttons to operate, but still. I agree with Ives that automakers could work to step up their physical-button games. -DT]
The Dodge Charger King Daytona Pays Tribute To An Icon
For the fifth runout special edition Dodge muscle car, the American brand is bringing back the King Daytona nameplate. I know what you’re thinking, “What on earth is a King Daytona?” Don’t worry, I’ve got you covered.
The original King Daytona was a 1969 Charger Daytona owned by drag racer Big Willie Robinson, a man who used racing as a way to build community after the Watts Riots. He has a pretty incredibly story and it’s worth writing a full article on him at some point. For now, just know that he was an absolute icon of west-coast drag racing.
Fast forward to 2022, and the new King Daytona is a Charger Hellcat Redeye Widebody with the wick turned up to 807 horsepower, a pretty awesome number. On the outside, the King Daytona is extremely orange. Go Mango paint complemented by orange brake calipers keeps things loud, while a black tail stripe and satin chrome wheels add just the right amount of pop. On the inside, the orange accenting continues in the stitching and on a special badge in the console.
Like other Last Call special edition models, the Charger King Daytona is more of an appearance pack than a performance pack. However, it pays tribute to a really cool icon of motorsport and I can totally dig it for that reason alone. If this is a Charger that speaks to you, get ready to hunt. Dodge is only making 300 examples of the Charger King Daytona, with allocation to be announced at a later date.
Tesla Sued Over Alleged False Advertising
Drivers continue to fight back against Tesla’s wild claims relating to advanced driver assistance systems. Reuters reports that a plaintiff is suing the carmaker, claiming the company made false promises of autonomous vehicles.
Briggs Matsko, the named plaintiff, said Tesla did this to “generate excitement” about its vehicles, attract investments, boost sales, avoid bankruptcy, drive up its stock price and become a “dominant player” in electric vehicles.
“Tesla has yet to produce anything even remotely approaching a fully self-driving car,” Matsko said.
The lawsuit filed in federal court in San Francisco seeks unspecified damages for people who since 2016 bought or leased Tesla vehicles with Autopilot, Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self-Driving features.
Considering Tesla’s claims regarding solving the problem of autonomous driving, this lawsuit could have some proper legs. Calling Tesla’s bluff has been a long time coming and should the suit proceed, it could result in compensation for a vast number of Tesla owners.
The Great Build-Out Of Charging Infrastructure Hastens
Automotive News reports that several states’ plans for implementing EV charging infrastructure have already been approved for funding under the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Formula Program.
Plans submitted by Arkansas, California, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Tennessee and Wisconsin are among those approved. D.C. and Puerto Rico plans also are approved.
“Thanks to the commitment of state leaders who worked hard to develop EV charging networks that work for their residents, we were able to approve these state charging plans quickly and ahead of schedule,” said Stephanie Pollack, acting administrator for the Federal Highway Administration. “We are reviewing the remaining plans and are on track to finish the process by our target date of Sept. 30, if not sooner.”
The program aims to help fund the implementation of 500,000 EV charging stations across America by 2030. With new EVs announced in a seemingly constant stream, the right time to crack on with infrastructure development is now. Kudos to federal and state government for moving quickly on this issue so far.
The Flush
Whelp, time to drop the lid on today’s edition of The Morning Dump. It’s Thursday, which means that the weekend is right around the corner. While it seems like a surge in EV market share could happen any year now, I’d like to know when you plan on adding an electric vehicle to your fleet. Personally, I don’t see myself picking up an EV for quite some time. I mostly rely on public transit around town and use my car for road trips and other events where I want to drive rather than be stuck in urban traffic. Because of my unique use case, I don’t see an EV fitting in with my needs until something with heaps of range ends up suitably depreciated.
I just bought a hybrid earlier this year, and since I’m the “run it into the ground” type, I’m set for a daily driver for the next 15, maybe 20 years, barring any unfortunate accidents.
However, if GM ever gets around to releasing that 200 HP electric crate motor package, that would be perfect for my long languishing Fiero project.
When do I plan on buying an EV? Three benchmarks: 1) Full recharging in less than 10 minutes, with a range of no less than 300 miles. 2) Charging stations as plentiful and convenient as Circle Ks, Texaco stations, truck stops, etc. 3) Broadly applicable battery technology rather than proprietary batteries that go out of production, which is currently resulting in battery replacement quotes for more than the car in question is worth, for a battery pack that ISN’T EVEN IN PRODUCTION ANYMORE. 4) Price gotta come WAY down, jack, including the used market, especially in light of the previous point.
Therefore, projecting based on current trends, I will most likely be in the market for an electric commuter vehicle approximately ten to twenty years after I die.
Just bought a Bolt EUV, it has its flaws (slow fast charging, size/range/looks Depending on your taste) but so far it’s a great car.
Very normal, in terms of having buttons and the way it drives. None of the flaws i mentioned above are issues for me – it’s more of a 2nd car for our household, so it won’t see too many fast chargers. And I like the way it looks / has plenty of space for what I need. And very reasonably priced (and equipped) compared to the rest of the EV market.
Every time I do the math an EV just doesn’t quite add up for me. Before the pandemic I was giving a SparkEV as a second car/commuter a hard look. It was a 2014 so just a few years old, had but 63k on the clock and the ask was $5k. You’d think a slam dunk but given our PG&E electric rates here in CA electricity costed almost the same as gas (using the custom setting on fueleconomy.gov and various PHEVs as 1:1 models).
The fuel math is a bit more favorable to EVs today but with WFH the cars get used a LOT less and used EVs cost a LOT more so overall the math says just keep what’s already in the garage.
One potential game changer would be V2H. If I could count on my EV as a whole house battery backup for power outages I’d be more interested in getting an EV.
Id rather be shot in the face:
I wanted.. a SMOL VAN to do what I want in it. Not a big damn VAN.. a SMOL Van. I didnt care about efficiency when I bought my 05 Element (coming from a 7th gen Accord.) I still drove them the same way… Grand Ma, or LUNATIC.
What I want cant be found easily.
What I want, others dont.
What I want.. is completely ignored.
AAAAAAnd what I really want… no body gives a damn. Theyd rather tell you to use your mobile radio with a touch interface and download another shortcut to a PROGRAM of theirs. Screw that!
At this point the Charger King Daytona looks like a vehicle straight out of GTA:V
Physical controls can be better, but they’re not better just because they’re physical. The Three Mile Island disaster has been attributed to problems with human-factors engineering: basically, there were a bunch of identical knobs and dials, with poor layout, practically inviting the operators to do the wrong thing.
On-screen controls mean that you can’t do anything by feel, but you can have a bunch of identical buttons on the dashboard that are just as bad.
The crux of the Three Mile Island disaster was a faulty sensor that didn’t report its physical state but rather what the physical state “should” have been. Other plants at the same time did it the right way and never had an issue.
A water collection spigot (the same size as the ones on the side of your house) from the reactor was left open. The water level was very slowly dropping from within the reactor. Since the valve indicated ‘closed’ the operators then assumed something was wrong with the water level sensor instead of the valve and *overrode the automatic water filling safety feature*. Which, to be fair, would have been bad had their assumption been correct.
Either way, the partial meltdown was contained by the thing designed to contain it and that was that.
Yes…
My wifes car and mine are just that way.
Mine, I can feel every button by size and or orientation.
HERS, you cant get an idea of what they do based on size or orientation.
Our next car will not be an electric car, but the one after that might be. Probably 3-5 years before I’d be seriously considering one at all. I’ll be able to charge at home, but the current state of the broader infrastructure still gives me pause right now. I’m assuming things will be better in a few years and a BEV will likely be a consideration.
My wife is really in to the idea of an BEV for her next vehicle, which I think is probably 4-5 years a way (she doesn’t get bored like I do). I am not opposed to them by any means and I wish that Kia had done a plug in hybrid version of the Carnival. But for now we need something with a range of 450-500 miles and the van does that just fine. For around town though, neither of our commutes are that long and could be done on battery.
Plus if my wife does get something requiring a charger, she’ll finally have to let me put 220v in our garage.
As long as I continue to be employed as an HVAC technician, I have no need for a fully electric car. I drive the big ol’ 4wd van to work, and they’re fine with me doing minor errands on the way home.
My wrx gets used maybe 1 evening per week, plus random weekend expeditions into the mountains. It would take flooding the country with chargers before I could substitute an electric car for the wrx: the area between Va & WV I play in doesn’t have that many conventional gas stations, and are not in high income areas.
I kinda like the Tesla 3, but doubt prices will get to what I’m willing to pay anytime soon. Plus, the more Musk tweets, the less interested I am in owning something he controls. I did a triple-take when I first saw the Ionic5, but, again, doubt prices will be in my range in the near future.
I want a first gen Bolt, regardless of all the problems. I can deal with the low range and battery issues. I think we can get $4000 back directly from Joe Biden now, right? Or, did the price of them just go UP by $4000 because of Joe Biden?
Yup, prices went up. A year or two ago you could get a first gen Bolt for in the $teens around me. Now they are $10 more, in the mid to upper $20’s. Sadface.
The prices went up before anything to do with Biden. Anything hybrid or BEV skyrocketed in the first few months of this year
You know touchscreen interiors suck when *Apple* says buttons and knobs are necessary!
I’ve been trying to go electric for years now. The last time we were in the market it came down to deciding between a sportwagen or an eGolf for what was primarily going to be a commuter car. Winter range concerns and a slightly suspiciously good price on the sportwagen combined to tip it in the wagon’s favor. With the benefit of hindsight where I now don’t have a commute but lots of can’t-quite-cycle errands, I wish we’d have chanced it on the golf, although the jetta has been flawless and better than expected on gas. With our oldest approaching driving age, keeping the jetta long-term seems to make sense.
That leaves us wanting a BEV or PHEV three-row vehicle. Taking a clean sheet approach, something like a bolt and an ICE three row car probably would make more sense, but most three row vehicles have appalling gas mileage and the current prices make them even less appealing. If we’re stuck paying too much on the front end, at least not getting soaked to keep it running seems like not too much to ask.
I don’t see replacing our rav hybrid any sooner than 3 years from now. Maybe with a prime. Maybe with whatever is the latest alphabet soup named bev they are offering. I work from home and the wife works 3 miles away. Range isn’t an issue. For longer trips, I’ll rent or fly as appropriate.
When Old School knobs and buttons are grouped logically — that is, regularly used functions with large knobs/levers/buttons and less-used functions are wherever in rows of smaller buttons, I consider that the ultimate. And, of course, they need to be clearly marked. During the time when I needed to learn a new/different car’s layout weekly, I can recall only a few times when I was stumped (a gas-filler door release hidden in the glove box, for example). I can’t imagine how long it would take me to achieve an acceptable comfort level with scrolling through menus and touching screen icons. And I don’t WANT to learn.
As to Thomas’s question: I don’t see myself buying an EV at all, as I a) like to take long-distance drives and b) appreciate the ease of spending minutes only getting my car “recharged” with good ol’ 91 octave. I have nothing against the concept of EVs, but they don’t fit my preferences. Yet, anyway.
Maaaaaan, do I need an “edit” function! I want my important controls set for most convenient reach, while the rest can just go in a row somewhere. Forgot to say that.
A perfect example was my beloved Austin-Healey. It had knobs for the headlights and wipers, a lever for the turn signals, a switch for the overdrive and, separately, a “push” for the windscreen washer, plus knobs and a slider for the heater. That covered everything. I could jump back in one today and reach instinctively for each control.
My next vehicle will probably be a truck and it will almost certainly be electric. That said, I’ll be at least 4 years until I get one, barring something catastrophic.
I’ll add an EV as soon as something sporty and fun to drive with decent range is available for under $30K. The Volt and Leaf can sit back down, they don’t check the “fun to drive” box for me. A gently used Model3 LR or Performance would fit the bill if they ever actually begin depreciating but in this crazy world they cost more than new models. The ID.3 Pro Performance comes close, except that it’s not available in the US. I know there are used ModelS down in that price range but it’s just too big for me, honestly the Model3 is on the porky side as well, that mythical Model2 that was being rumored around the internet would be nice, especially if it comes in a 2door hatchback configuration, but that only exists in internet forums for now.
Basically, when I can get an EV as fun to drive as a WRX for the same or less.
Id rather have the WRX.
Ya can get paint with the WRX.. and a manuel, and a decent wing, nice engine note. Basically everything good.. can come from a WRX (except head gasket issues).
OL Musky… no, nothing good comes from him.
1). I don’t think anyone other than tech bros and Zoomers want a car that’s nothing but screens and haptic nonsense…the main issues are that every single manufacturer wants to copy Tesla and the touch BS is cheaper to manufacture than actual buttons. Manufacturers absolutely know that 90% of drivers hate this stuff, especially after Honda tried it and had to quickly reverse course, they just want to save money and appeal to the youths.
The way we get it to stop is through negative reviews and talking with our money. It seems like its working too, the amount of negative press around the current gen VW interiors is monumental and if you go on cars dot com or autotrader in an urban area there are piles of used MK8 GTIs with less than 5,000 miles on lots because so many people couldn’t live with the tech hell interior.
2). Oh look it’s another Dodge that’s really fast in a straight line, really loud, really bad on gas, really expensive to insure, and in a really bright color that’ll make everyone look at you just in case all the other stuff wasn’t enough to make them. They’ve sold this stuff forever and all of this is a cynical cash grab.
Also, a question: once Stellantis has their EV legs under them to meet cafe standards will there be anything stopping them from making more of this?
3). Tesla and Musk deserve every single consequence coming their way and then some.
4). More EV infrastructure is much needed and will do a lot of good.
In regards to EVs, I think we’ll go with a PHEV before taking the EV plunge. The wife and I have several road trips we make frequently…one is about 250 miles and the other is about 120 but entirely rural. Both inevitably involve sitting in traffic to get out of the city in the first place and the long one hits 3 major metropolitan areas….so again, traffic.
That, coupled with the way I tend to interpret speed limits as vague suggestions, makes me think it would be hard to make a BEV work. I could probably take one on as my car, but I just bought a new ICE vehicle in June and none of the BEV vehicles I actually like are in our price range…not to mention the driving experience of them is going to need to get a whole lot more interesting before I want to daily one.
The wife’s car is always going to be bigger and more practical, not to mention she’s a very slow driver and has to commute around town for her job. Her car is next on the upgrade list and I think for what she/we’d use her car for a PHEV would make a ton of sense. We’re holding out hope that a PHEV Palisade comes out in the next few years, because she loves the Palisade and in case it wasn’t obvious enough I’m rather fond of what Hyundai’s been up to as of late.
I also think we’d consider traditional hybrids as well though…I think the Toyota Venza in particular offers a really nice package for what she wants. It’s like the McLaren of appliance cars.
>will there be anything stopping them from making more of this?
lack of demand
Chargers and Challengers still sell in crazy numbers in 2022 despite the fact that they’ve basically been unchanged since the mid 2000s. People will keep buying them as long as they’re available.
Yes, the chargers priced under 42k sell well, but this is a special edition. The comparable comparison would be the Hellcat Widebody and that clocks in at 80k. How many of those are dodge moving?
Would you mind defining “piles” of MK8 GTIs with less than 5K miles on lots due to tech hell interiors? cars / com currently shows 70 MK8s with less than 10K miles and most are listed for above original MSRP.
Keep reading the reviews in lieu of chatting with actual owners. While they have their issues, most on owner forums are happy with the controls after just a few days of ownership. Are they perfect? Absolutely not but they are far from the horror that auto writers are spewing after spending a few hours in one. Which begs the question, have you actually driven one in order to form your own opinion?
You are correct that piles was a poor word choice….but out of the 18 for 2022s for sale within 150 miles of me, 5 are used with under 5k miles, 3 are used with under 10k miles, and 2 of the new ones are under MSRP. None of the new ones are over MSRP. In the current hell world market conditions that seems somewhat damning to me, but I could also be reading too much into it.
While I have yet to drive a MK8 I owned a MK7.5 for years and have driven a 7 R as well, and I have a neighbor with a MK8 who I talk to when I walk the dog. They’re good cars…but I got tired of all the headaches of mine. In only two years of ownership it made 3 unplanned trips to the service bay, despite the fact that I kept up with the maintenance. One of the issues was never even fully resolved…the techs more or less just said “we have no idea so just hope it doesn’t happy again”. Plus the car burned through consumables at an alarming rate.
Add in the additional headaches of the new wonky infotainment and the GTI and R just don’t appeal to me much anymore…I switched to a Hyundai N car and it’s exponentially more engaging of a drive than any Golf I’ve ever been behind the wheel of. Less refined for sure, but I’ll sacrifice some refinement for more driving pleasure and edge every single time personally.
I appreciate the GTI as an institution and for serving as a gateway car for me….but it’s just not as compelling of a choice as it used to be, and it’s not a coincidence that most journalists seem to agree with me.
I currently run a PHEV. If I owned my home, I would probably be looking at a full EV soon, but I just don’t want to commit to full electric until I can install a good charge solution in my own home.
The PHEV is a pretty solid choice for me: my commute is fully electric and my trips to see family are not slowed by charging. But maybe they should be. Last time I went to visit my sister, I drove almost 8 hours without stopping at all, and I realized that maybe a break to stretch my legs during that drive would have been good.
I am sure that an EV will enter the fleet as the short commuter and errand running.
Since there is not one car for all things. I still see the need for a long range car (ICE, Hybrid, something else?) and dump runners needing to be available.
Overall the charging stations are good news. Now that companies are like “I can make money”, the will build them. We do need to bolster the electrical system in the US to handle this. For both home and away charging.
I was going to add a 500e to my fleet for me and my lunch box to get to work when they were $4k. A couple year ROI on it.
Now…. I’ll be waiting for a 10-15 passenger. So. Maybe 2028-2032?
“We’re so preoccupied with what we’re wrestling with…there are examples where the interface is driven inappropriately by multitouch.”
Thank you for coming out and speaking the truth. Maybe other designers and auto industry leaders will take notice because Ives said it. Halle-freaking-lujah.
Ok, I love real buttons as much as anyone, but can we not go back to the million button dashboards, like that Honda (Acura?) in the lead photo? Nightmares like that dashboard are why designers and engineers leaned into screen based controls in the first place.
I like the approach my fleet takes. Common use items are buttons and the more complex items and deeper settings require touch screen.
I agree the 1980s/1990s more buttons is better approach is overkill and you still need to look way.
Once the muscle memory is down, I can adjust the radio, set cruise, answer a call, all without taking my hands off the wheel just need to shift my thumb.
you should check out an 80s Pontiac some time 😀
My motorized fleet already is 100% electric, albeit both are in varying stages of disassembly and completion, and both vehicles had to be converted into EVs.
Nothing on the market really appeals to me at this time. Everything is too aerodynamically inefficient and has much too big/heavy of a battery pack for the range they are said to have, and is too tech laden. The Tesla Model 3 is probably the least objectionable of the market’s offerings to me, but I’m not a fan of its touch screen interface and over-the-air updates, its lack of decent quality control, and its weight.
If someone made an affordable RWD overpowered lightweight electric sports car of roughly the size of a Lotus 11, I’d be on that like flies on crap. Until then, the Aptera looks pretty damned rad, even though that’s not out yet.
I applaud your tastes but that makes exactly two of us. Nobody else cares about size, weight, or efficiency.
BTW, I race a Lotus Eleven. Other than the racetrack, I don’t want a car that small, low, or impractical. Maybe an electric Lotus 7 or an Elan?
I mentioned the 11 because it has a shape conducive to being turned into a streamliner. I’d want the car to be a coupe with a full roll cage. That would give it “acceptable” safety. By keeping the frontal area low, then coupling that with a drag coefficient in the low 0.1X range, you wouldn’t need a very large battery to go far on a charge, helping to keep the cost down. 20 kWh in such a thing would be plenty and give a range comparable to a Tesla Model 3. Such a small car with a small battery pack could end up weighing well under 1,800 lbs.
I would want this would be a poverty-spec car with a corresponding price tag. The performance benefits of such would be immediately recognizable. No heated seats, no electronic arm rests, it would have roll-up windows, no touch screens, and minimal tech, keeping weight and build cost down. You would only need about 300 horsepower to run circles around hypercars on a race track, and with such streamlining, top speed would also be in hypercar territory. Such a thing wouldn’t cost much to build, and would use significantly less raw materials than normal cars.
If someone could get such a thing out the door for under $25k, I think there would be a lot of demand, simply due to the performance potential at that price point. It would cannibalize the sales of much more expensive cars in the process, which is probably why we’ll never see such a thing from any mainstream automaker. The small automakers don’t have the production volume to get the per unit cost down by overcoming the non-recurring engineering costs to make it happen.
“I applaud your tastes but that makes exactly two of us. Nobody else cares about size, weight, or efficiency”.
I do too. Those reasons are exactly why I bought my Mazda5, the smallest, lightest, most fuel efficient vehicle available at the time with sliding doors.
So that makes at least three of us. Anyone else?
My single requirement for an EV as a family car has been the same for a long time.
It must have 500+ miles of range at 0 degrees Fahrenheit, or be able to recharge 250 miles or more in the same time a gas car refuels.
Once cars/vans/SUVs meeting this standard are available, I’ll consider them the same way I would any gas car now.
Would it be acceptable to you if the car you described was streamlined with a drag coefficient around 0.15? Because that is one of the things that would need to happen to make your range criteria possible with today’s technology without the car costing too much. As a nice bonus, assuming a frontal area of around 23 sq ft(comparable in size to a modern Toyota Camry), you’d only need about 200 horsepower to hold 200 mph.
Look at cars like the 2020 GAC ENO 146, 1999 GM Precept, and 1983 Ford Probe IV to get an idea of what such a car would look like.
Personally, I’d like to see a multimodal platform of such a streamliner able to accommodate a front-mounted rear-drive V8, an AWD EV, a RWD budget EV, and a front-mounted RWD inline-6 turbodiesel.
With a platform as efficient as this, a base model EV of under $20k would probably be doable, thanks to only needing a 20 kWh battery to get 150-200 miles range on the highway. It wouldn’t cost much for it to have 200 horsepower, which would be enough for a cheap poverty-spec car to theoretically hit 200 mph with proper gearing if it had such aerodynamics. In the city, range is not as important because long trips tend not to be made in city driving, but that might be cut in half.
A more expensive option with a 60 kWh or larger battery would get the 500 mile range on a normal day, but if you want that 500 miles range in the winter, it might need a 100 kWh pack, which would probably yield closer to 800 miles range in fair weather. And with such a large battery pack, 1000+ horsepower could probably be justified as well.
All of which is doable. The industry would have to give up constantly changing body styles, and stick to the same design for decades at a time, refine the crap out of it, and standardize parts so that cars even 40-50 years old are able to be inexpensively kept on the road. A car should be something that you buy during young adulthood and can pass down to your grandkids and it still remains relevant and usable, not something that reaches the end of its life in 15 years and fills up a landfill.
“Would it be acceptable to you if the car you described was streamlined with a drag coefficient around 0.15?”
Theoretically yes, as long as it can accommodate 5 people and their luggage for a 1-2 week trip. Obviously styling is one of many criteria I use when judging a car and something that’s optimized for aero over literally everything else might not look very attractive. But I’d keep an open mind to anything that can provide the range I need.
This sort of efficiency would also open up the possibility to a RWD V8 getting more than 50 mpg on the highway. I think that would sell itself if the car was designed well and reliable. So many manufacturers want us to give up V8s, and there’s no justifiable reason for it considering what can be done to improve efficiency. Similar could have been done in the 1970s fuel crisis, in fact, and we’d have never needed to downsize to 4-cylinders, with the bonus being that the reduced drag would have cancelled out most of the horsepower-killing emission-control-induced malaise from a highway acceleration perspective.
“As a nice bonus, assuming a frontal area of around 23 sq ft(comparable in size to a modern Toyota Camry), you’d only need about 200 horsepower to hold 200 MPH.”
LOL! Where are you going to ever use that?
Me personally? When no one else is looking or at risk.
Me personally? When no one else is looking or at risk
Sure, if you are on a desolate, dry lake bed, with official permits, multiple spotters and perfect visibility in a vehicle designed AND fitted to safely go 200 MPH by all means knock yourself out. Just don’t pull that kind of shit on shared public roads. 200 MPH eats up a whole lot of lot of blacktop fast. On public roads there’s no way to be certain no one else is looking or that you alone will bear the consequences of your leadfoot. Shit happens.
Even if you were to crash all by yourself somebody else gets stuck with the job of cleaning up the nasty mess you’ll leave behind.
“This comment brought to you by Exxon”
Yes, because simply saying I wouldn’t buy something that can’t even meet the performance of the minivan I have now is the same as being bought and paid for by an energy company.
Your minivan does not get 500 miles at 0F.
It comes close(400-450 miles of highway range), but it doesn’t need to, because it can be refueled in 5 minutes.
All I need is one or the other.
My 7th gen Accord did that. I could get 500+mi on a tank. I could also get 10mpg if I really wanted to.