It was difficult to decide which news to lead with today until it dawned on me that the two stories were essentially two sides of the same coin. General Motors, after proclaiming that their big EV truck push would start next year, has admitted it’s not producing these trucks until 2025 at the earliest.
At the same time, a new report shows that full-size mainstream SUVs have grown in market share significantly this year among multiple automakers. While there could be some trimflation at play here, the market has stabilized, and the boom in giant SUVs is probably a sign of demand and not supply. Can you guess who is leading that charge? General Motors, of course.
On the topic of GM, there’s some bad news for its Cruise autonomous car unit. Plus, if you were a Stellantis exec hoping to get another free trip to Vegas, I’m about to spoil your breakfast.
GM Delays EV Trucks
The GMC Sierra EV debuted almost a year ago today, promising a range of 400 miles and a starting price of around $108,000. The goal was to begin production in late 2024 and sell the truck as a 2024 MY vehicle. Initially, GM was going to do the same for the more affordable Silverado EV. Then the company announced it was going to raise the price of the Silverado from an announced $40,000 up to a price much closer to $50,000.
Neither vehicle, it seems, will be produced in late 2024. Or early 2025. According to a GM statement given to Reuters, the Orion plant (which currently produces the Bolt and Bolt EV) isn’t going to be making trucks until late 2024:
The move is the latest sign that electric vehicle production and demand may not be as strong as forecast. GM had been set to begin production of the electric Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra in late 2024 at the suburban Detroit plant. The company said the plan now is to start it in late 2025.
GM said the change was being made “to better manage capital investment while aligning with evolving EV demand” but said the move does not impact its battery plant plans. GM said in July battery production at the Ultium joint venture plant Ohio has been hampered because “our automation equipment supplier is struggling with delivery issues.”
The automaker in July reiterated a previous target of building 400,000 EVs from 2022 through the first half of 2024, and projected EV revenue of $50 billion in 2025. GM has said it is targeting production of roughly 100,000 EVs in the second half of 2023.
All of GM’s new electric vehicles are supposed to ride on variations of the company’s electric car platform and use the company’s Ultium battery pack.
Right now that means BrightDrop vans (which seem very good), a small number of Hummers, and a slowly increasing number of Cadillac Lyriqs for journalists, Lyft drivers, and Jamie Lee Curits for some reason. I love Jamie Lee Curtis so I’m just going to roll with it (she’s so good in The Bear, she’s still got it). [Editor’s Note: I’ve actually seen Jamie Lee Curtis driving her Lyric in Santa Monica. Yes, I’ve gone Hollywood. -DT].
It’s difficult to discern how much of this is supply delay and how much of it is demand, though demand definitely plays into it. While the new trucks will be built at the company’s Orion plant, the canary in the coal mine for Ultium is BrightDrop, and production of those vans is halted until next spring due to a shortage of battery modules.
Oh, and speaking of demand, I suggest you head on down to this second story in this Morning Dump:
Americans Can’t Stop Buying Full-Sized SUVs
What recession? What bad economy? Automakers are selling full-sized SUVs like they were dry socks at this year’s Burning Man.
Registration data from global intelligence firm S&P Global Mobility shows just how much the category of full-sized SUVs (think Expedition and Suburban) are selling this year:
S&P Global Mobility projects US retail sales at 15.4 million units this year, up from 13.9 million units in 2022. From that total, registration data show total full-size utilities leaping to 3.5% cumulative year-to-date share through June, compared to a 1.9% level 10 years ago and 2.6% in 2019. Mainstream full-size SUV share has risen from 1.2% a decade ago to 2.3% this year, while luxury models’ share has bumped up from 0.7% to 1.2%.
That is a not-small increase, and represents a lot of new vehicles, even if it isn’t the majority of the market (which is dominated by compact and mid-size crossovers and pickup trucks).
The models leading this growth are the Ford Expedition, with registrations at 24,347 units through June — up 43.8% year-over-year, and the Chevy Suburban, up 31.4% to 17,293 units. Even the dominant Chevy Tahoe managed to increase by 4.5% year-over-year to 24,511 retail registrations over that time period.
Luxury full-size SUVs are also doing well, with the redesigned Range Rover absolutely clobbering fools, up to more than 8,000 registrations compared to just over 2,600 in the same period last year. The category-leading BMW X7 is down a bit, by around 4.4%, but the overall luxury space is strong.
The biggest losers appear to be the Wagoneer, Grand Wagoneer, and Mercedes GLS.
A simple conclusion here might be that buyers still have purchasing power and still want gas-guzzling full-sized vehicles. That has to partially be true. I think the fact that the GLS and BMW X7 lost ground while the comparable electric Mercedes EQS and BMW iX gained it shows that full-sized luxury buyers could be open to electric vehicles.
If I were a General Motors planner I’d probably be pushing hard to get the Cadillac Escalade iQ into production as fast as possible.
GM’s Cruise Unit Under Review Due To Pedestrian Interference
Building cars is hard. Building autonomous cars is even harder, as GM’s Cruise autonomous vehicle subsidiary is discovering. In addition to being yelled at by the police, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is investigating whether Cruise vehicles are inadvertently driving into crosswalks and harming pedestrians.
NHTSA’s Office of Defects Investigation said that it’s received two reports involving pedestrian injuries from Cruise vehicles. It’s also identified two additional incidents from videos posted to public websites. The office said the total number of relevant pedestrian incidents is unknown. It opened an investigation on Monday.
“Cruise’s safety record over 5 million miles continues to outperform comparable human drivers at a time when pedestrian injuries and deaths are at an all-time high,” Cruise spokesperson Hannah Lindow said in a prepared statement. “Cruise communicates regularly with NHTSA and has consistently cooperated with each of NHTSA’s requests for information –– whether associated with an investigation or not –– and we plan to continue doing so.”
The ODI said its investigation is being opened to help determine the scope and severity of the potential problem, including causal factors that may relate to ADS driving policies and performance around pedestrians, and to fully assess the potential safety risks.
This comparison of limited autonomous vehicle routes to regular, human-driven vehicles is a little bit of a pet peeve of mine. Yes, autonomous vehicles are by and large safer, but they’re also being used in more restricted circumstances. Additionally, society doesn’t want robot cars that are a little safer, they need to be an order of magnitude safer to be worth the anxiety folks have about robots driving cars on public streets.
Pack Up The Shrimp, No Stellantis Party In Vegas
Want to know a secret? I am not a Las Vegas person. If you are, that’s awesome. Enjoy it. Everyone needs a place to go, and the world would be boring and crowded if everyone stormed Big Sur or Venice or Lake George or wherever you want to go.
As the Detroit Auto Show has waned in importance, the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas (aka CES), has become more of a key venue for automakers. At the show earlier this year, Stellantis showed off the Ram REV concept. This year? Ain’t no party like a Stellantis CES party because a Stellantis CES party is, reportedly, not happening according to the Automotive News:
On Tuesday, Stellantis said it’s canceling its display and presentations at the January event “as part of the contingency plan implemented since the beginning of UAW strike.” The company issued a statement saying it is “executing comprehensive countermeasures to mitigate financial impacts and preserve capital, and will continue to demonstrate its transformation into a mobility tech company through other means.”
It added: “Preserving business fundamentals and therefore protecting the future of the company is a top priority of Stellantis leadership.”
I don’t think what Stellantis is trying to say here is that the company’s employees blew a bunch of money on blackjack, but it does inadvertently sound like that, right? I will say that all the Stellantis employees I know are fine, responsible, upstanding people.
The Big Question
How long will it take for General Motors to sell 200,000 electric vehicles a year in the United States? So far this year it looks like GM could deliver 100,000 EVs.
I feel as though many people who buy full size SUVs are not good enough drivers to own such a long vehicle.
This comment inspired 100% by the Escalade that keeps blocking the entrance to the fancy donut store parking lot.
His truck-owning cousin must have been at Target today, because there was an F150 there that apparently ABSOLUTELY NEEDED 4 parking spots.
So Mary ‘led the switch to EVs’ and GM hasn’t yet sold more than 100k evs in a year oh and GM has continued to shrink since what the mid-70s?
Tesla (love them or hate them), is at a +1M per year run rate, selling more evs than any other company (and at a profit), it is an American company and continuing to grow.
Though outside of their fan-boy base they get continually shit on…
It takes more than Elon’s horde of cultists for Tesla to sell that many vehicles. Out of all of the EVs available in the USA, Tesla are the ones consistently delivering 6-digit battery pack mileage and at least a decade life span for the battery in like 98% of cars built. 300k-500k miles is not uncommon if one covers enough miles in a year to rack that mileage up. Battery packs are not cheap to fix or replace.
We don’t get them here, but BYD is also doing a stellar job with its EV battery pack engineering.
Check out the resale value for used Audi E-Trons for comparison.
Maybe over a decade or so Hyundai and other manufacturers will prove similar or better longevity, but they haven’t yet had the time to establish a track record.
Yep. I’d love if BYDs were sold here from a pure product perspective as I’d like to personally check them out; though not enough to fly to another country.
Although really sad for the US, I’m not convinced GM leadership and the board are really interested in switching to EVs even if it means the death of the company.
You’re probably correct. GM had a 15-year head start on Tesla and threw it away.
Wonder why they haven’t called anything the EV-2 yet?
And Tesla spent the money on a charging network that works. Maybe if GM or someone else would put some effort into a functioning charging network for non-Teslas, there would be more demand for their cars. I know GM is moving to the Tesla charger in a year or 2, but it remains to be seen how that will actually work.
The big question I have is whether or not the California Car Nazi Board has hurt SEMA this year or not?
$108,000. 1 0 8 , 0 0 0
My first house (circa 1997) didn’t cost that much.
Inflation is most of that. Still that equates to 56K in 1997 dollars and I’d expect more than half a houses worth for that kind of money.
Given how absolutely bonkers the housing market is, it’s a really bad comparison for pricing vs other goods. 1997 to 2023 is roughly a 90% increase from inflation. 2016 to 2023 is a 30% increase in inflation, yet my house has MORE than doubled in value in that time.
I feel like we are so close to a revelation. And that is the installation of mild hybrid drivetrains in full size pick ups. Having the torque boost and associated mileage increase in a gas-powered 3/4 ton would be a huge boon. And the chassis can easily handle the weight of the extra gear.
So by the 2025 production dates, I would expect the “proposed” MSRP will rise another 15-20%.
Thinking I’ll just sit this out, and spend my time in a field waiting for the Great Pumpkin to save our ass from all this bullshit. YMMV.
GM – Hmm apparently ICE truck buyers are not interested in EV $80-100k trucks, lets shift our focus to expensive large EV SUV’s with giant batteries. We can’t be wrong twice in a row!
GM will sell 200,000 BEVs the year they build 200,000 Bolt EUVs.
They’re a really spectacular value in today’s new car market, but they’re never in stock. GM could move 200,000 of these, easily, just by building them. They sell themselves on price and word-of-mouth.
I know a few people who have one so far, and as a result, I know about a dozen people looking for them in stock.
That said, I don’t fault GM at all for their slow production ramp-up. There’s nothing close on the market, and right now, overproduction is a bigger risk to profits than underproduction.
Good take, IMHO. I want a Bolt myself (but a used one).
Let’s see what happens when the Volvo EX30 comes out. That’s basically the same car as the Bolt except that the manufacturer actually wants to sell them.
I’m sure you’re right, as long as Chinese ownership of Volvo remains hidden. When speaking of EVs and PHEVs, the moment I mention the Geely connection, much of the interest in Volvo evaporates.
I’m willing to consider one, but most of my circle drops out once the facts of ownership are revealed.
My own uninformed opinion on this is that the target audience for this car is going to be younger buyers who don’t really give a shit about the Chinese ownership. I suspect these things will sell faster than Volvo/Geely can make them at least until GM re-introduces an updated Bolt.
After looking for about three months, just got one and its great so far. Wish CCS charge infrastructure was better but I doubt I’ll use it much.
I wish I could have replaced my wife’s car 2 years ago so I’d be in a spot to get a Bolt once they show back up. I feel like the window to get a sub-$25k EV with good range is almost over.
But unfortunately buying a replacement for our other car is a pain in the ass.
No one is surprised that the Silverado/Sierra are delayed. I understand why American manufacturers decided that EV trucks needed to be such a priority…trucks print money, Americans are convinced that they’re the perfect vehicle for literally every application, and they can charge ridiculous sums for them.
As long as Ford/GM/Stellantis have 6-10 year in house financing available for their $90,000 trucks folks will still line up to stretch themselves financially to buy them…because while a Porsche or something like that would be a status symbol for a lot of us as soon as you’re a decent distance away from a city center the defacto status symbol becomes the biggest, most kitted out truck on the block. I’ve spent a lot of time in rural VA and the Carolinas this year where every other car is a brodozer.
But EV technology isn’t there yet for trucks. They can’t really tow. People either needs their trucks to tow or need to know their trucks can tow for bragging rights. There’s also little to no charging infrastructure outside of major cities where trucks are more or less the go to vehicle for most people. Finally, I’m not going to try to avoid making any blanket statements across the board or anything, but I will say that it’s probably safe to assume that fuel economy/emissions aren’t usually the first things on the mind of folks who drive full sized trucks….especially if they’re still used to V8s.
EVs are legitimately great in some applications. If you’re just commuting in or around a city and won’t ever need 300+ miles of range then an EV is probably the best thing for you already. EVs are also excellent second cars if your other vehicle is ICE. I’m not an anti EV person at all, and there’s a good chance I’ll have some on my shopping list my next go-around.
But for full sized trucks? They don’t make much sense right now. It’s too many compromises. They’re too expensive, they’re worse for actual truck stuff, and there isn’t much infrastructure out in the country. You can get a really nice ICE truck for what they cost, and unsurprisingly that’s what people are choosing. There are a few specific applications that they’re great for…I have a neighbor in DC who owns a local contracting business and has a Lightning as his daily. It’s perfect because all his work is local.
But for most situations they’re not ideal yet. I also think it’s hard to overstate the impact of the Maverick. I think a lot of folks who’d consider an EV truck for environmental reasons have already found their way into hybrid Mavericks. They’re damn useful vehicles if you don’t need all that much capability.
200,000 just before the depression starts in 2027. Then, a bailout in 2028. Depression ends in 2031. Mazda, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Dodge (not Stallantis), Skoda, Mini, etc… will all cease to exist. Any of the small, niche brands will die. We will come out of the other side a much leaner world.
I wonder how much of GM’s Silverado EV troubles are legitimate supply chain and manufacturing issues, and how much of the situation is just GM sandbagging — pretending Ultium is in a precarious position in an attempt to extract concessions from the UAW, for whom domestic EV production is a priority.
I’d wager it’s about 60/40.
GM really *is* that bad at long-term thinking tho
They’ve even extended Bolt production because they can’t get the Ultium supplies. The Bolt is a lot cheaper than anything Ultium
except after the swan song of the current version of the Bolt the next one will be using Ultium batteries. At least that was what all the news was in late July.
I think it’s an important distinction that the Silverado EV itself isn’t delayed. Expanded production is. Factory Zero will be making them, but they won’t be making as many as had been planned. At least, that is what other sources are saying. Please correct me if they are also halting production there.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1141151_gm-delays-plan-for-additional-electric-truck-capacity
This may end up a distinction without a difference for consumers if they continue to pump out vehicles for commercial customers only, but I suspect we’ll be seeing some consumer models. I assume they just don’t want to flood the market if demand is as soft as they now expect.
Next question: will GM pull a GM and not produce many compact and midsized CUV’s because EV pickups don’t sell at their present price point? All signs point to absolutely. Then they’ll yell that nobody wants EV’s since their preferred truck customers don’t want EV’s. I think they have it all backwards. Go after the well heeled outdoorsy people who want to “adventure greener”, not Bob the Builder who tows a 24 foot trailer every day.
Meanwhile Rivian and eventually Tesla will keep eating GM’s lunch in the EV truck space. Rivian just came out with an update to more accurately predict range when towing.
I really don’t think the Tesla truck will amount to anything more than an occasional rap video fixture. the Rivian is still currently losing money on every vehicle they sell and Ford announced losses in the multiples of billions on EV for the foreseeable future. I think GM is doing what often does, it is hedging it’s bets and using others price increases to approve of theirs before finally wading into the pool.
Scaling production costs money. Rivian began deliveries of their vehicles in just the past few years. It took Tesla six years to return a full year profit. In the meanwhile their trucks aren’t vaporware like GM’s. Tesla is looking awfully close to revealing production trucks too. But save some crow for me.
I agree, I think the Cyber Truck was an idiotic misstep, and won’t sell in any quantity. That said, Tesla is still in the best position to sell any sort of electric vehicle and turn a profit- they of all companies should be able to make a go of the most profitable vehicle body style.
Too bad they didn’t design something appealing and sensible.
I fully expect a more plebian Rivan sized Model X with a bed to be a thing at some point. just removing those dumb doors will save tons of money in warranty costs alone.
It’s okay that you don’t like visiting Vegas. I live there. It’s not for everyone. But if you have any pull with the Formula 1 folks, tell them to get stuffed. They’re making life difficult for everyone who lives and works here.
I hear you. Last time I was there they were ripping up the roads to repave them so those idiots could drive around in circles wasting gas and rubber. What a colossal waste and stupid symbol of waste.
Do you mean Vegas in general or just the F1 event? I lean to the former.
Well both I guess, but motor racing and airshows should be the first things we cut out to help our planet. I’m no fan of all the big SUVs and trucks on the road being used as personal transport, but I’m tired of hearing them all get the blame when there is such pointless waste for entertainment purposes. And yes, recreational travel should probably also be re-thought or at least priced in accordance with it’s climate impact.
“It’s difficult to discern how much of this is supply delay and how much of it is demand,”
I bet it’s mostly a supply chain issue. It takes time to do that and they’re going through the same learning curve Tesla had to.
“How long will it take for General Motors to sell 200,000 electric vehicles a year in the United States? “
I’m gonna say 2027… which is when they should have a decent number of Ultium-based vehicles out.
Despite the physical similarities and overlapping price points and use cases, the full-size SUV market is fundamentally different from the pickup truck market, luxury or not.
If you look at who buys these products *new*, it becomes fairly obvious that one would be more open to electrification than the other.
New full-size SUV buyers are mostly upper middle class, and probably own at least a few other decent vehicles for different purposes. The cost to install fast chargers at both their primary residence (and vacation property…) isn’t a big deal. While clearly many of these people buy SUVs for their towing capacity, it’s more likely to be recreational toys, not day to day work. The purchase is almost completely discretionary.
The buyer pool for pickups, (even expensive ones) is much wider, and leans harder toward blue collar people who are often stretching to make the purchase. They need the pickup truck to do everything for them. Work, play, family hauler, road trips, commuting, etc. Their lifestyle is less likely to have the flexibility to accommodate electric charging. These trucks are often purchased with the help of tax write-offs, or as the company car for their small business. Without that professional justification, they would likely not be able to afford such an expensive vehicle. Even if they truck is *luxurious* it is still not a luxury purchase. A small fraction of the purchase price (say the $5000 difference between an XL and XLT) may be discretionary, but the general need for a ~$50,000 pickup truck is not.
I think there is still a massive market for electric pickups, but it is fleet vehicles for service companies and municipalities. Manufacturers shouldn’t be surprised there is a limit to how many 100k luxury trucks they can move, they need to get those 40-50K trucks out onto the market NOW.
You hit the nail on the head. I do see tons of black Suburbans as livery cabs, and I have to say they are fantastic from the back seat.
Of course you can’t count out the financially overextended minivan-hating rage dads, but they are more likely to choose the truck.
Those same upper and upper middle class people who have no problem putting a charger in their 3-car garage also don’t really mind paying $5/gal @ 15 mpg to keep that Suburban V8 fed.
Yes, they’ll complain about it, but they aren’t deciding between food and gas for their truck.
I think the point is that nothing practical or money-related is truly critical for luxury buyers- they are willing to make some compromises if the vehicle fits their fancy. They have the freedom to make frivolous choices, gas or electric. Reliability, maintenance costs, depreciation- None of that really matters. To these people, vehicles are disposable, not assets, and they have much more disposable income.
Most wealthy people are well-educated, and some portion of them believe attempts to reduce climate change are important. (Hey, don’t mess with ski season..) That doesn’t mean however, those same people don’t feel the natural human urge to obtain status symbols and keep up with their neighbours.
If I had to guess, the silent, “guilt free” acceleration of a powerful electric SUV will be the de-facto status symbol among the upper middle class into the future.
Frankly, the Silverado being delayed is not a surprise given the struggles of the Lightning.
The modern crop of EV trucks are basically the Lincoln Blackwood. Nice to drive but expensive and not even plausible for work. $90,000 Platinum F150s sell because they can still tow a trailer or at least possess the capability to do so “someday”. EVs don’t have that as long as battery density is so poor. EV early adopters are much more likely to be city dwellers and appreciate the sedan or CUV form factor. EV trucks might be ideal for in-town fleets but they are too expensive to make sense there either. So who is the customer?
I agree completely, see my comment above. Making the pickup electric fundamentally alters its utility and justification as non-discretionary spending for many personal truck buyers. The Lightning is basically 100% a luxury vehicle at its current price and configuration.
Affordable electric fleet pickups on the other hand, are a total no brainer. A truck that drives 50 miles a day collecting garbage bins in parks and returns to a depot every night? Huge market potential.
My town is replacing GMC Sierras with Lightnings one by one.
problem is a base model half the price ICE version of the pickup does the same or more work. the up front nut is the hard thing for some bean counters to get over.
Eh, they’re not all that stupid, see DadBods comment above. Ongoing fuel and maintenance costs are critical at scale. Any fleet that isn’t making some sort of total cost of ownership calculation during their procurement process is seriously incompetent, and should have already run themselves bankrupt. As much as I like to bag on large corporations and bureaucrats, if you provide them a cheaper more convenient solution they will take it. The product just has to actually exist at the right cost.
the part they don’t talk about is the investment just to set up charger, but I digress.
You think a team of people considering switching their fleet to electric wouldn’t think to look into the cost of installing chargers?
I’m a contractor, I work with electricians… it’s not that bad. It’s like running a wire to a stove or dryer, or a direct burial cable to a shed. Run some PVC up a nice little pole.
Most light fleet vehicles spend all night in the yard, they barely even need fast charging.
Project manager here, cost 180 K for 6-8 40Amp level 2 chargers to be added due to additional electricity feeds required. That would be similar to the cost for a bus Barn or maintenance shed.
That is an obscene number, which I I can only assume constitutes a major service upgrade from the utility, and very long distances.
Yes and no, major service upgrade yes, and you have to have enough amps for all circuits at once, but it was not very far and in a major metropolis. so yeah, a big nut to cover. IT does cover it eventually I suppose, as long as the rates don’t change, but they already are and in costly way.
I’m looking at a Lightning next year, and I admittedly fall into the Rivian target market (but unfortunately not their target income level). I really think Rivian is the closest competitor to the Lightning, so it’s a capable toy for getting to trails and making some trucky runs to the landscaping store.
As a Lightning curious guy, the Powerboost F150 is a cross shop. It’s not much of an improvement over the gas truck, but it at least offers something. It’s the more pragmatic buy for me, it won’t be hopelessly obsolete in 4 years when I pay it off.
Rivian has really done a good job marketing themselves as, if not luxury, ruggedly luxury-adjacent in a way a Range Rover might have been 30 years ago.
I can’t imagine anyone buying a Rivian to *work* with, in the same way I couldn’t imagine anyone buying a Lightning as an upscale outdoor cosplayer. Perhaps that’s just failure of my imagination.
Now is the time to buy a Lighting, supposedly 8000+ sitting on dealer lots not selling, massive discounts being offered so they say.
yeah but the ’24 gets a heat pump and I live in Maine. Dammit.
I didn’t realize existing lightnings don’t have a heat pump. Only reason I can think of for this oversight is a desire to get the product to market asap using as many existing tier 2 vendors products as possible.
Happy to hear the 24′ will come with a heat pump
If I’m not mistaken, the Sliverado EV is already in production for fleet customers. This sounds more like the demand for another $80,000 EV is not as robust as predicted.
Hmm. Do I really want to buy a car built by a “mobility tech” company? Will the UAW have to rebrand as the UMTW?
I will guess that GM will surpass 200k annual US EV sales in 2025. I’m basing that prediction on GM’s recent production announcements. However, to borrow another Jamie Lee Curtis reference, said announcements from GM (or any automaker) should be considered “True Lies.”
Or as “alternative facts?”
Is that you Kellyanne?
The numbers of full size suvs does not surprise me. The demographic I see driving them does. Suburban soccer moms. Seriously, drop-offs at soccer practice are like this:
Tahoe, Tahoe, Yukon XL, Yukon, Suburban, Escalade, Escalade XL. And most are black. It looks like a presidential motorcade or something. Sometimes I’ll see like 5 parked next to each other, not like a joke, there are just so many it eventually happens.
They are everywhere.
On the bright side, when the economy crashes and people are forced to live in their cars, they’ll have a lot more room.
If anyone is going to be living out of their cars, it certainly won’t be the buyers of $80,000 SUVs.
Most people I know who have or are living out of their cars are living out of 30-40 year old hatchbacks, sedans, vans, pickups with camper shells, or SUVs.
This has been the trend since the 90s, unfortunately, my generation is perfectly happy driving the same vehicles our parents did, unlike our parents, who dumped station wagons for that reason
I bet every single one of them is financed or leased.
ill bet most of the cars around them were financed or leased to?!?
Probably. Gone are the days where the average person could actually save for a vehicle. Even the average used car is about $29k right now. 3/4 of Americans have less than $1,000 in savings.
I recall reading an account of a boomer who purchased his first new car at 16, a 1969 Ford Mustang 302 Boss, paid in full with cash, the fruits of his labor from riding his bicycle since age 12 to deliver newspapers. He was also able to pay for his college with money left over and never had to take any student loans. Subsequent generations have been robbed.
And the same boomer probably complains about how today’s kids don’t want to work hard and his taxes shouldn’t go to help anyone
You may be surprised. Out in soccer-mom country, more than a few of those behemoths show up as a section 179 Vehicle Deduction for the family’s ag or rental-property related money-venture. Need to buy something over 6,000lbs to get the green. Now the suburbanites trying to keep up with those folks? Yeah… financed at 96 months and they had to drop the CrossFit membership to do it.
Talk about perverse incentive. Working people have to subsidize these purchases with their tax dollars. I’ve heard of Bentley Bentaygas and Lamborghini Urus qualifying for these credits.
Ugh, talk about unintended consequences in tax law. But surely all those honest folk are using the vehicle for business?
Unintended? The negative consequences of the policy decisions made that we are seeing today were forseen by those who were shouted down as “doomers”, “fearmongers”, or “being too negative”, and the policies were enacted anyway, even when the majority of Americans were against them.
A useful study that explains how politics really work in this country and why things are the way they are:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B
I was going to wait until after dinner to hit the gummies, but now I am depressed
It’s a feature, not a bug.
I couldn’t agree more. Purchasing a nearby “hobby” rental-property and learning about the related financial ins-and-outs opened my eyes to just how skewed-upwards the system really is.
Yes bc the only (or primary) requirement is the vehicle is above xxx lbs. (6000 lbs I think)
I think it’s GVWR over 6,000 lbs.
Yup, I see quite a few TRX’s and Raptors running around with someone’s company logo on the side. It’s a win-win, getting the toy they wanted along with a sweet tax deduction.
I know someone who did this with a Wrangler lease, she just slaps a magnetic logo with the name of the gym she owns on it.
I wouldn’t mind if they flooded the market with cheap used ones. While I wouldn’t DD a ‘Burban, a buddy of mine has a 1996 that he keeps for home depot runs or if any of us needs to move a large group of people. Probably does about 1-2k miles a year.
I know someone who lives out of an early ’90s Suburban he purchased for $700 prior to COVID. He makes close to $100k/yr, but at one point in the past when he had no money, his student loan went into default and ballooned in value to a large multiple of his original principal. It is now garnished from his wages. He’s also the victim of a predatory divorce where he has to pay child support and alimony. Those, plus his tax burden, all take their cut and he can’t afford rent where he is at. He often camps out in the parking garage where he works and the security guards knowing his situation look the other way. This is his future for at least the next decade.
This is the future for a lot of us in the upcoming years as the income gap grows and housing becomes scarcer. I’m seeing more and more sketchy campers and derelict looking vans around my area, definitely people living in them. There’s even one on my street. I believe formally lived in the house across, it’s a 20+ year old Voyager with out of state reg 4 years out of date. Now the van is down the street and hasn’t moved in over a month, and pretty sure I see lights in a night while I’m taking my dog out. Not sure if it’s just one or multiple people in there, but it’s definitely being used as shelter.
The current present and your hypothesized(and probable) near future is as predicted in films like “Americathon” and “Soylent Green”, and novels such as “Sheep Look Up” by John Brunner. “Mad Max” or maybe even “Threads” may not be that far off at this rate…
At least in a Soylent Green future, we are guaranteed nutritious meals…
Man, that’s rough. Student loans can really be terrible as even bankruptcy doesn’t get you out from under them.
I bought a well-used 4WD Suburban in 2017 and at this point it’s “try prying it out of my cold, dead hands”. But then again I truly use it hard. I do a lot of outdoor stuff so it’s on an adventure trip one or two weekends a month (frequently on pretty bad dirt roads with very occasional actual off-roading), it’s the road trip vehicle covering miles with ease, I occasionally need to throw a trailer on the back for projects at our nearby Scout ranch, and it serves as a passenger and load hauler when need be. For me at least it makes a load of sense since I regularly and genuinely use its capabilities.
They are truly the most versatile vehicle ever made. You can do truck things and van things with them. They eat up the miles on the highway (while also eating all the gas)
The Range Rover was extremely supply constrained last year so their increase makes sense. Most of those cars are going to folks who have had them on order for 18+ months. They’re just starting to clear the backlog.
To sell 200K units, GM needs to have an affordable EV and get it’s battery production sorted out so they can build that many EVs.
Everyone seems to love SUVs, but I had an MDX as a loaner car a few months ago, and I couldn’t wait to get rid of that giant thing. It made everything worse and more difficult (except exiting the vehicle, which I admit was better than my normal car.)
Its strage… everyone I know who bought or leased an MDX couldn’t wait to get rid of it.
Well guess I’ll keep waiting for Toyota/Lexus to get their hybrid supply up then.
Ford also announced 700 layoffs on Lighting EV Truck production yesterday before GM’s announcement on EV Trucks. Lighting sales down like 45% this year.
Mitsubishi should bring back the Montero, which is still made for other markets. I’m surprised they stopped selling it here, since big SUV’s were always popular when they did sell it here.
Maybe Nissan can benefit from the UAW strike and actually sell some Titans and Armadas.
The Montero wasn’t quite big enough compared to the typical large SUV especially with how midsize SUVs had grown. Just among the import brand big SUVs, the Sequoia and Armada were much bigger, V8-powered, and cost the same. Even the 4th gen 4Runner for that matter was about the same size, cost less to start, had a more powerful V6 plus a V8 option. And better brand reputation.
The only way it would have worked is if Mitsu had developed some kind of truck platform and powertrain with the U.S. market in mind, but I’m guessing they determined that was too much effort at the time given their state at the time, especially compared to say, Nissan.
Considering the recession happened a couple years after they dropped the Montero and SUV sales plummeted, it might have been one of the luckier things they did. Where they really missed the mark was having no 3-row option in any SUV sooner than the jump seat in the Outlander, perhaps the Endeavor might have had more success if it did.