I do not have a Monk-like attention to detail and, honestly, if Godzilla himself were ripping the roof off an office building a block away I’d probably miss it. This might be because I reserve all my attention for cars, meaning that I’ll notice a Ford Escort ZX2 with the S/R package driving the other direction six miles away. Perhaps this is why the appearance of three Toyota bZ4X electric crossovers at one charging network caught me off guard.
How could this be? The bZ4X is extremely mid, named like a late-gen Sony Walkman, and had its presumption of reliability immediately shot in the foot when the wheels started falling off the first examples. While sales and inventory are up for the bZ4X this year, that’s only relative to poor sales last year and after a lot of heavy discounting.
It was therefore a neck-snapping moment this week when I saw three bZ4Xes utilizing half the stalls at an EVgo charging location just outside of New York City. I have never seen two bZ4Xes outside of a Toyota dealer, so three getting a charge was as rare as seeing an albino squirrel or witnessing Astros relief pitching not blowing a lead.
Being a reporter and a curious person I had to go find the owners and figure out what was going on. I’ve been especially curious as I’ve seen a sudden uptick in bZ4Xes running around New York lately.
It’s Probably Not What You Think It Is
My first instinct was that the insane lease deals on the Toyota might have been the cause, and I’m sure that has something to do with why I’m seeing more on the road. If I had the ability to charge a car at my place I’d be tempted by a $ 190-a-month lease and year of free charging, too.
But as I got closer I noticed something all the cars had in common. Every one of them had a license plate starting with T followed by a bunch of numbers and a C. In New York, this means that the vehicle has one of the coveted For-Hire Vehicle Licenses. While you can be an Uber driver in just about anything in the burbs, if you wanna offer rides in the city you need to have a plate and a license from the Taxi & Limousine Commission.
It was clear right away these were Ubers, but to be sure I asked the two gentleman standing next to the cars.
“Ubers or Lyfts?”
“Ubers.”
“Ah…”
Again, my presumption here was that these two drivers got their cars recently, while the lease deals were great (most EVs used by Uber drivers I’ve talked to were leased). When I suggested this possibility they gave an unhappy shrug and explained that, yes, leases are cheaper now but they got these cars before the prices went down.
So why do it?
“It takes two weeks to get a taxi plate and it’s too hard to get a Tesla. The Toyota was easy.”
While I still see a ton of Teslas used as Ubers, the picture starts to become clearer the more I talk to them. Any EV is better than no EV if you want a license, and so whatever is available at the moment is often the best car.
In New York City, you can only get a new For-Hire Vehicle License if you’re an EV or a wheelchair-accessible vehicle. There was a brief pause where no one could get one due to a lawsuit, but that lawsuit was thrown out earlier this year so licenses started getting issued again.
In order to get a license, according to the T&LC, you have to have a VIN and prove you have an electric car, which means buying the car first. It would suck to buy a car and then have to wait for delivery as that’s money lost, so the two drivers I spoke to just got the first thing that was nice and available (they said Teslas were too inconsistent with delivery and they didn’t want to risk it). Plus, Toyota still has a great reputation among drivers and, in my experience, has the biggest share of the market in the city.
The drivers liked their cars and thought they were comfortable, but there was big problem.
The One Big Problem With The bZ4x As An Uber
Talking to the drivers I was surprised to find out that range wasn’t that big of an issue. Most of their driving is in the city and they aren’t covering huge miles, so the low 200-mile range they experienced was sufficient for their needs (I think these were all AWD models and therefore have 228 miles of range).
The issue is that DC Level 3 charging on these cars is kinda slow. From Toyota:
DC Fast Charging in ideal conditions: In AWD models, going from Low Light to 80% can take ~1 hour, which results in an average charging rate of ~3 miles/minute. In FWD models, going from Low Light to 80% in ideal conditions can take ~30 minutes, which results in an average charging rate of ~6 miles/minute.
That’s an hour to get to 80% under “ideal conditions,” but others, like Cars.com, have found it difficult to achieve those numbers:
Our fast-charging test of a FWD bZ4X XLE took considerably longer at 54 minutes to charge the battery from 25%-80%, which added 141 miles of predicted range at a rate of 2.6 miles of range added per minute. The 2.6 miles of range per minute was far less than Toyota’s best-case estimate of 6 miles of range per minute (higher is better when comparing miles of range added per minute).
The Uber drivers I spoke with said it was more like two hours to go to full which, for obvious economic reasons, Uber drivers tend to do.
When I end up at a public charger and see an Uber driver and look at the screen on the charger I’m never surprised when I see them at 98% or 99%.
This isn’t recommended by Toyota:
To help maintain long-term battery health, DC Fast Charging should be limited to two cycles of charging Low Light to 80%) per day throughout the year.
Since these are leased cars, the long-term battery wasn’t likely of much concern to the drivers.
I don’t blame them for fully charging as, in the same situation, that’s what I’d do. Still, this sucks for anyone who is waiting. Most people I meet at chargers usually only fill up to 80%, which means your max waiting time is usually around half an hour if you’re behind them in line. If you’re waiting for these guys? It’ll probably be a while.
The good news for the future is that there were plenty of Tesla Superchargers in the same garage and there was zero wait.
I haven’t seen one of these or it’s Subaru twin out in the wild. And my area isn’t short of electric cars either, my street alone has a couple of mach-es and polestars. Heck, I even see vinfasts driving around.
Wait, are these even available in Canada?
I see these all over Montreal, I even test drove the Solterra for the heck of it when my car was in service. It was fine, but I street-park and have nowhere to charge a car so BEV is a no-go.
Quebec makes sense with your super cheap hydro. What kind of government incentives does the province kick in?
Looking at my local Subaru dealer, the dealer is giving $3k off, then there are $12000 worth of government rebates which is pretty crazy.
I didn’t even know these Toyotas existed.
To be fair, bZ4X XLE is the worst name for a car since the Utopian Turtletop…I mean the Edsel.
I hadn’t heard of these Toyotas either.
I didn’t even know these Toyotas existed.
To be fair, bZ4X XLE is the worst name for a car since the Utopian Turtletop…I mean the Edsel.
I hadn’t heard of these Toyotas either.
I would have had to scoot 180 miles up to the DC suburbs to get any bZ4X and I only saw one or two FWD models, but if I had had a job, I would have snapped one up last month (or April. whenever it was that I saw the deal out there), but $189/month for a 2023 or $219/month for a 2024 with nothing down was an absolute steal, and the abbreviated range and sluggish charging would be just fine for my 6,000 miles per year max.
If you’ve managed to find a job, check out the deal for IN, IL, WI, and MN. $169/mo and it explicitly said must be purchased here but residency doesn’t matter. No idea what that means with taxes / registration though so make sure to look that up.
Cool – thanks!
I would have had to scoot 180 miles up to the DC suburbs to get any bZ4X and I only saw one or two FWD models, but if I had had a job, I would have snapped one up last month (or April. whenever it was that I saw the deal out there), but $189/month for a 2023 or $219/month for a 2024 with nothing down was an absolute steal, and the abbreviated range and sluggish charging would be just fine for my 6,000 miles per year max.
If you’ve managed to find a job, check out the deal for IN, IL, WI, and MN. $169/mo and it explicitly said must be purchased here but residency doesn’t matter. No idea what that means with taxes / registration though so make sure to look that up.
Cool – thanks!
BUSY FORKS! BUSY FORKS! Ha ha!
*buzz forks. It sounds like it belongs as a ratchet and clank weapon
BUSY FORKS! BUSY FORKS! Ha ha!
*buzz forks. It sounds like it belongs as a ratchet and clank weapon
Head over to prospect park for your albino squirrel viewing , Brooklyn is a leader in charismatic white squirrels.
https://www.google.com/search?q=albino+squirrel+prospect.park
ANd Brevard, NC is filled with white squirrels… not albino though. https://www.cityofbrevard.com/481/White-Squirrels
Wow, descendants of escaped circus squirrels! I don’t expect to be visiting Brevard, NC any time soon, but if I do I’ll look them up.
It’s a great little town with lots of cool restaurants and shops. We go there for mountain biking. Fun area.
Head over to prospect park for your albino squirrel viewing , Brooklyn is a leader in charismatic white squirrels.
https://www.google.com/search?q=albino+squirrel+prospect.park
ANd Brevard, NC is filled with white squirrels… not albino though. https://www.cityofbrevard.com/481/White-Squirrels
Wow, descendants of escaped circus squirrels! I don’t expect to be visiting Brevard, NC any time soon, but if I do I’ll look them up.
It’s a great little town with lots of cool restaurants and shops. We go there for mountain biking. Fun area.
Wait. Does it make sense to charge to 100%? How much slower is the last 20%? This article makes it seem like 25%-80% takes the same amount of time as 80%-100%. Unless you’re risking having to wait at a charge station to even begin charging, I would charge as fast as possible to 80% then drive until low and take more frequent but shorter breaks.
I was thinking the same thing.
The last 20% is v-e-r-y slow. This is universal for EV’s.
The last 20% of a battery fills up about as fast as the first 80%.
Maybe there are certain times of the day that have lulls, and you take those windows to get all the charge you can?
I play with electric RC stuff that uses some okay size packs. This is true that the last 20% takes as long as the first 80%. The battery management system also has to balance the cells along the way. That allows the pack to have a nice long life since all the cells are charged equally.
For heat helping cells to charge/discharge quickly, my RC monster truck performs better after running it for a few minutes. That gives the pack time to warm up and move the electrons across the membrane separating the cathode and anode. Run time in the cold stinks since the pack can’t warm up despite having it in a warm house before.
Wait. Does it make sense to charge to 100%? How much slower is the last 20%? This article makes it seem like 25%-80% takes the same amount of time as 80%-100%. Unless you’re risking having to wait at a charge station to even begin charging, I would charge as fast as possible to 80% then drive until low and take more frequent but shorter breaks.
I was thinking the same thing.
The last 20% is v-e-r-y slow. This is universal for EV’s.
The last 20% of a battery fills up about as fast as the first 80%.
Maybe there are certain times of the day that have lulls, and you take those windows to get all the charge you can?
I play with electric RC stuff that uses some okay size packs. This is true that the last 20% takes as long as the first 80%. The battery management system also has to balance the cells along the way. That allows the pack to have a nice long life since all the cells are charged equally.
For heat helping cells to charge/discharge quickly, my RC monster truck performs better after running it for a few minutes. That gives the pack time to warm up and move the electrons across the membrane separating the cathode and anode. Run time in the cold stinks since the pack can’t warm up despite having it in a warm house before.
Having had both one of these and a Model 3 as an Uber, I didn’t find these especially comfortable – Toyota and my body don’t like each other, I felt like a giant about to burst out of the car – but it’s definitely more comfortable than a Model 3.
Note, a Hyundai Accent – which is highly inappropriate as an Uber, even if it still did wind up working – is more comfortable than both.
At the end of the day my best Uber experiences are Hondas and I really hope they get more EV options to target that market.
Having had both one of these and a Model 3 as an Uber, I didn’t find these especially comfortable – Toyota and my body don’t like each other, I felt like a giant about to burst out of the car – but it’s definitely more comfortable than a Model 3.
Note, a Hyundai Accent – which is highly inappropriate as an Uber, even if it still did wind up working – is more comfortable than both.
At the end of the day my best Uber experiences are Hondas and I really hope they get more EV options to target that market.
Holy crap, $169/mo in the Chicago are for a 3 year lease with 2100 down? And after the end of the lease you can buy it for $19K? So you can end up buying one of these for 28K!?
Yes, it’s pretty wild.
I haven’t checked the deal they offer but they always have one parked in front of Costco
At some point you have to ask if they’re really that bad, and the answer – according to friends who work at Subaru & Toyota dealerships – is resounding “yes”. They can’t “give” them away, even with the updates to the newest model.
Why are these so bad again???
Limited range and slow charging. It’s a compliance car so Toyota can say “see, we’re making EVs too” when they really care about their hybrid, PHEV, and, unfortunately, hydrogen vehicles. For most people this is more comparable to a Leaf than a Model 3/Y in that they’re lousy road trip cars and are pretty much limited to local trips.
Also, the whole wheels falling off thing. 😉
Holy crap, $169/mo in the Chicago are for a 3 year lease with 2100 down? And after the end of the lease you can buy it for $19K? So you can end up buying one of these for 28K!?
Yes, it’s pretty wild.
I haven’t checked the deal they offer but they always have one parked in front of Costco
At some point you have to ask if they’re really that bad, and the answer – according to friends who work at Subaru & Toyota dealerships – is resounding “yes”. They can’t “give” them away, even with the updates to the newest model.
Why are these so bad again???
Limited range and slow charging. It’s a compliance car so Toyota can say “see, we’re making EVs too” when they really care about their hybrid, PHEV, and, unfortunately, hydrogen vehicles. For most people this is more comparable to a Leaf than a Model 3/Y in that they’re lousy road trip cars and are pretty much limited to local trips.
Also, the whole wheels falling off thing. 😉
But the media is telling me that Tesla’s aren’t selling anymore... But these guys can’t get one?
In my own
echo chamberscircles, it appears that the 1% financing on the Model Y did the trick and got cars moving again.The issue isn’t that the cars are hard to find, there’s tons of inventory, the issue they were concerned with is that they say delivery can be slow and the service a little iffy.
Things have changed a lot in the past year. I ordered my Model 3 on a Friday evening and immediately got the VIN. I took delivery four days later. I could have picked it up earlier but I needed to arrange travel to a delivery center. Delivery took maybe 5-10 minutes. They even have a contactless delivery option where you use the app to pick up the car in a lot without ever needing to talk to a person.
But the media is telling me that Tesla’s aren’t selling anymore... But these guys can’t get one?
In my own
echo chamberscircles, it appears that the 1% financing on the Model Y did the trick and got cars moving again.The issue isn’t that the cars are hard to find, there’s tons of inventory, the issue they were concerned with is that they say delivery can be slow and the service a little iffy.
Things have changed a lot in the past year. I ordered my Model 3 on a Friday evening and immediately got the VIN. I took delivery four days later. I could have picked it up earlier but I needed to arrange travel to a delivery center. Delivery took maybe 5-10 minutes. They even have a contactless delivery option where you use the app to pick up the car in a lot without ever needing to talk to a person.
I’m seeing more of these in western NY too. Must be those lease deals. I had a ride in the one the local Toyota dealer was using for a shuttle. Completely unremarkable. Except for the instrument cluster being weirdly far away from the driver and super low resolution. No sun glare or washout, however.
I’m seeing more of these in western NY too. Must be those lease deals. I had a ride in the one the local Toyota dealer was using for a shuttle. Completely unremarkable. Except for the instrument cluster being weirdly far away from the driver and super low resolution. No sun glare or washout, however.
Is there no mileage limits to an EV lease? Seems like you’d blow past even 45,000 miles on a 36 month lease if you were driving it for Uber every day. Maybe not in NYC maybe?
I think Uber has deals with a bunch of places to offer leases and rentals that work for their drivers. I don’t know how it works out, but I assume they come with unlimited or high mileage packages.
Is there no mileage limits to an EV lease? Seems like you’d blow past even 45,000 miles on a 36 month lease if you were driving it for Uber every day. Maybe not in NYC maybe?
I think Uber has deals with a bunch of places to offer leases and rentals that work for their drivers. I don’t know how it works out, but I assume they come with unlimited or high mileage packages.
Oh no! Maybe the other teams know what pitches are coming. That’d be a shame.
COTD…lol
Oh no! Maybe the other teams know what pitches are coming. That’d be a shame.
COTD…lol
Glad to see a manufacturer putting the 80% max charge in writing. I’m sure forum users will still squabble about the best thing to do for battery health.
Almost every EV manufacturer lists the maximum recommended daily charge percentage, usually it’s on your charge limit screen on the infotainment… I can’t think of one that doesn’t recommend it, outside of some LFP cars
Then I guess my Zero motorcycle is an exception.
This is only for DC fast charging. For a L2 charge, they (both Toyota and Subaru) recommend using the car similar to a cell phone, drive during the day, charge to full overnight.
Glad to see a manufacturer putting the 80% max charge in writing. I’m sure forum users will still squabble about the best thing to do for battery health.
Almost every EV manufacturer lists the maximum recommended daily charge percentage, usually it’s on your charge limit screen on the infotainment… I can’t think of one that doesn’t recommend it, outside of some LFP cars
Then I guess my Zero motorcycle is an exception.