I’ve spent the vast majority of my adult life driving as many new cars as possible every year. Hundreds and hundreds of cars. But until eight years ago, I’d never purchased a new car. That changed with the acquisition of an Ice Silver 2016 Subaru Forester Premium. If “love” is what makes a Subaru a Subaru, then I got shortchanged, because I like the car but haven’t loved the ownership experience.
The joke that’s been bouncing around my head is: Get a Subaru so you can have a Toyota driving experience without the Toyota reliability. While I haven’t been stranded by my Forester yet, I’ve had to replace so many parts of the car and deal with so many small annoyances in my first few years of ownership that I’m pretty much over it and looking forward to trading it for something that’s either more fun to drive or cheaper to operate.
This is only my experience, of course, so your mileage (both literal and figurative) may vary. But I’ve talked to enough other Subaru owners that I don’t think I’m alone.
Why I Bought A Forester In The First Place
One of the limitations in the way I’ve mostly reviewed cars is that I get a car for about a week and then it moves on to someone else. I can tell you what it’s like to live with a car for just long enough to get the radio presets right, but I can’t tell you what it’s like to live with that car for many more miles. It’s a good argument for checking Consumer Reports, a publication that buys its cars from dealers and puts real miles on them.
I didn’t do that. It was 2016. I was living in Brooklyn. My wife and I had just brought a tiny Hardigree into the world and, because of my wife’s job, I’d found out I was moving to this mysterious place called New York-outside-of-New York City and so I needed something dependable, safe, and big enough to schlep a new human and all the stuff you’re told a new human needs to thrive.
Did I actually want a Mazda CX-5 with a manual? Yes, but those were rare and expensive at the time. I was considering a C-Max Hybrid just because C-Max Hybrids are roomy and weird. On my list was also the Subaru Forester. I’d had one to review a few months earlier and both my wife and I thought it was good at everything, even if it wasn’t particularly great at anything. My old pal Tom McParland also offered to help and, based on my list, thought I could get the best deal on a new Forester somewhere in New Jersey.
He was correct. For just $25,000 and a low 1.9% interest rate, I could get a brand new 2016 Subaru Forester Premium with a sunroof and the cold weather package. It was an anonymous silver, but it was extremely affordable. The dealership experience was pretty good and very quickly I had a new car.
The Honeymoon Period
For the first two years or so of Subaru ownership it was pretty smooth sailing. Nothing major went wrong, it mostly needed oil changes and tire rotations, and our local dealer was fine. Was it Lexus-level of service? Nope. It was fine. Like everything about the car.
Even the driving experience was just fine. The boxer motor is a little noisy, but it was faster than the CPO Honda Civic we owned before and way zippier than the old Volvo 240 wagon I bought as a project car. Did I love the CVT? No. Almost immediately, I had to adjust to the car always feeling slightly wrong at low speeds, with the car’s transmission trying but always failing to find the ideal ratio to maximize performance and efficiency.
Handling was not Mazda sharp and the ride wasn’t CR-V soft. Was it nominally better in the snow than other cars? Yeah, maybe. In spite of the CVT, it sucked fuel around town (about 22 MPG), which is mostly where it was being driven. It was a little better on the highway (27-28) but, again, it couldn’t hold a candle to our old 2006 Honda Civic LX, which I feel like I put gas in twice in eight years.
Where the Forester does better is in general usability. It’s big and roomy, outsizing the Mazda CX-5 or the available Ford Escape, making it easier to load-in the kiddo and all the kiddos gear. Something about owning a Forester makes you want an REI membership, so we did that and bought camping gear and took the Subaru camping.
We even gave the car a name. Subie! We road-tripped her to Canada and all around New York. Good miles and great memories.
Here Come The Problems.
Based on my own experience and after talking to other Subaru owners, every Subaru is at least a little misaligned roughly 10 minutes after an alignment and for the rest of its life. The stock Yokohama-brand tires, therefore, wore super fast. This is something a lot of Subaru owners complain about. Given that the stock tires only lasted about three years, I assumed an upgrade to some Michelin CrossClimates might improve this.
They were better performers but still wore faster than I’d like. In year seven of ownership, at around 70,000 miles, I had to put another set of Michelins on and they’re already starting to wear at the edges.
In year four, Subie’s front wheels started to judder at speeds over 55 mph. That required swapping out the passenger lower control arm, at great cost (I did it at the dealer and it’s not covered on the warranty), and then, not many miles later, it happened again and I had to swap the other lower control arm. Both times Subie needed a realignment.
At under 70,000 miles I had to replace both rear wheel bearings because they were screaming. This time I skipped the dealer and went to my mechanic, who informed me that this happens to most Foresters he sees of this vintage and, oh, yeah, I’ll probably need to replace the front lower control arms if it hasn’t happened yet.
I’ve had to undergo multiple recalls, including for the old 3G modem in the vehicle. The most annoying one is for the mat airbag sensor in the passenger seat, which had to be replaced (the tech also left some parts in the car which I found when I vacuumed). It still barely works and often gives me a false reading if I so much as look at it wrong. The battery went early, though the new one seems to be holding up better (although there’s a class action lawsuit about that, which I think is my second battery-related class action lawsuit.)
What Finally Broke Me
One of the perks of Subie is that she doesn’t have complex headlights or other parts. Everything is theoretically replaceable without taking the car apart.
This includes the headlights. I know this, because I have to keep replacing headlights. I had two go out on me at the same time, at night, last year. I replaced them and, big surprise, it’s been less than a year and the passenger side went out again. This, too, appears to be an issue that Subaru owners are used to dealing with, though some owners haven’t had issues.
Is the alternator throwing off too much voltage and cooking them? That’s my guess, and I’ll have to confirm that when the driver-side light goes out any day now.
Why I Wouldn’t Do It Again
This is the only new car I’ve ever purchased and the only car my daughter knows, besides our project cars. Parting with it will be difficult because it does hold a lot of precious memories. Also, new cars are expensive and I don’t want a car payment.
I understand that new vehicles are still vehicles and they still have wear items so it’s foolish to expect that nothing will go wrong and nothing will have to be replaced. Unfortunately, the tempo of replacing wear items and other necessary fixes have been way above what I expected when I bought the car. In the roughly 7.5 years I’ve had it I’ve spent around $7,500 keeping it running on top of the cost of buying it.
That seems high to me given that I’ve spent a lot less on previous, used cars that I’ve owned.
If the car were stellar. If it made me happy diving it every day. If it looked great and made me feel great I’d maybe feel different. It would maybe be worth it. I just can’t imagine spending money again on a new Subaru. I drove the Forester Wilderness and I liked it, but it wasn’t that much nicer than my car, had the same CVT issues, and I can just imagine how expensive it would be to keep running.
After driving the Corolla Cross Hybrid, I’m suddenly thinking about the ease of Toyota ownership.
Never buy a car with a CVT unless you want a disposible appliance with a shelf life of about 120K miles.
Strike that. Never buy a CVT. Period.
For real.
If you have the option of getting a manual and you tick the box for a CVT, you deserve what you get lol.
My 2010 Honda Insight has a CVT with 229,000 miles and absolutely no issues. In fact the whole car has been very easy to live with.
The exception which proves the rule…
Unless it’s a planetary gear eCVT like a Prius. Those are nigh unkillable.
If it has planetary gears, then it’s really more of a species of regular automatic transmission with special gearing mechanics. And that one uses electric motor torque, so it’s an electromechanical device as well.
The thing I’m referring to, is the typical belt/chain CVTs. They are disposible, and designed so from the factory. I can’t get in line with that philosophy.
New cars wear items at the same speed uses cars do. Edges of tires wearing rotate and add a few psi. One kid and roomfor stuff? My parents had 5 kids. We always had a wagon. We usually took a Grandma. Roomy enough because after the people and food and the adults items you were out of room and the kids didn’t bring anything you couldn’t fit in your pocket. But Dad…. Shut up or we’ll leave you on the side of the road for the gypsies. Call him on it he’d leave you off take off cruise around the block let you back in and tell you to quit crying. New car? If you aren’t rich by an appliance for mom and the family and the fun car for dad with enough room for mom.
After driving the
Corolla Cross Hybrid2007 BMW 335Xi Touring, I’m suddenly thinking about the ease ofToyotaBMW ownership. – There fixed it for you.One BMW is enough for the family right now.
Funny, I don’t equate the intersection of my cars and my kids as precious memories. More like bad memories. Very bad memories. I love my kids. But I loathe being in the car with them.
Just saying Homer Simpson had the right idea. Separate compartment for kids.
I needed a commuter car in 2019 and my beater 5sp Ford Fusion I bought was finally falling apart. I bought a 19 Legacy Premium and I only had it for 3 years but it was a mostly trouble free experience. I did have the battery die a year into ownership though. Also, the stereo head unit was a piece of shit that I had to reboot constantly. Android auto would stop working. Then it would lose all of my settings and revert back to factory defaults. It would also get stuck playing sound only on the back speakers. Other than that it still had its factory tires, 34mpg, and drove like a tank in the snow. Had a ton of room for a sedan as well. I almost bought a same year Forrester because it felt huge and drove small but didn’t want the higher payment/lower mpg so maybe I dodged a bullet?
You just listed a whole bunch of completely unacceptable issues for a <3 year old car, but labeled it “Mostly Trouble Free.” I have seen that same sort of vibe from Tons of Subaru owners. People complain about their Ford, or Dodge, or Jeep, or whatever, but Subaru owners never speak ill of Subaru. If people understood the headaches that come from owning a Subaru, their reputation would be somewhere between Chrysler and Tesla for reliability, but a large subset of owners are like “I’ve had a whole bucketful of issues, but meh, plenty reliable for me.”
It’s also nothing against you personally, it’s just a persistent thing ive seen that i dont quite understand.
That blows my mind. I have a friend who swears by Subarus despite two CVT replacements and being on their third engine at 150k in a ~15ish subaru Crosstrek. Knew another one with a Subaru Outback that always talked about how amazing it was and how much he recommended them despite it regularly being at the dealership for repairs and being sold right at 100k because he was afraid of owning it without a warranty. I would never tolerate any of those issues and my cars are significantly older
Don’t get me wrong. I won’t be buying another Subaru anytime soon, if ever. Carvana gave me almost as much as I paid for the car back in 2022. I paid $24k and they gave me $22k for it.
100% this. Honda/Acura, too.
What really boggles my mind is when folks have a bad experience with a car, then go out and buy from the same brand expecting magically different results. There are so many brands and models to try, sample something different!
Actual examples: I have a customer who is on his 6th equinox in 8 years. Another who is on her 4th Kia/Hyundai in 3 years (engine failure killed #1, #2 got stolen, and engine failure for #3) and it got stolen and recovered twice already. Another who is on his 3rd FWD cheap-o Jeep-o in 4 years. Another on her 4th Infiniti in as many years. The list goes on.
I don’t have a Subaru per se, but I will tell you that as cars get newer and newer, you’re going to be replacing more and more parts and becoming more confused about what exactly needs replacing. Welcome to the software era baby. (note I am not calling you a baby, that’s just expression speak) And no, the OEMs aren’t very good at software.
I
driveabuse a Honda Civic Hatchback and I always have the specter of some random underbody or suspension part falling off resulting in me panic breaking to the shoulder in my mind. Only just barely past 80K miles, but I have absolutely no wrenching experience.Annoyances like these are fine if it is a car you love, usually because it does something great. Subaru used to be the best way to get a smaller car with AWD -not really the case anymore. The only Subaru I would consider would be a WRX, but only generations before they were beaten with an ugly stick, and those ones are now so old they have been beaten by vaping enthusiast.
We considered a forester, mazda and rav4 for my wife in 2015 – we bought a 13 rav 4 with like 60k miles. It now has over 120k miles and I think I’ve only had to replace tires and rear shocks -but also a ton of headlights. (so many headlights that last time I bought 6 of the cheapest from rockauto and they seem to be just fine) I just helped my cousin pick out the same car rav (but a better green) based my experience and our cousins with a forester.
Many people seem to love their subarus because like you said, it makes you want to go out and camp, feel like you are outdoorsy. but i think they would be fine with many other cars. It bums me out to hear so many people say they have bad experiences, especially with new cars.
Subaru is absolutely still the best way to get a small car with AWD if you actually need AWD. Subaru attaches the “Symmetrical AWD” marketing but the fact is that Subarus actually put power to all the wheels, all the time, and remarkably few other cars do.
Sure, but as countless tests and reviews have shown, that doesn’t always give them an advantage. And for the few times that does does come into play, you’re still stuck in a cut-rate penalty box with a droning transmission, cheap paint, thin metal, troublesome electronics, and – recently anyway – horrid exteriors.
I don’t disagree, but, like I said, if you actually NEED AWD, Subaru is one of few choices. I have taken Subarus places where CRVs and Rav4s could only dream of driving.
There is a big difference between AWD(full time 4wd) and a self-unsticking feature(4wd only under very specific situations, and usually only at very low speeds).
Same here. I had a 2005 LGT wagon for several years and it had most of the issues you’ve noted, e.g. regular replacement of wheel bearings, brake components, suspension components, etc. Also embarrassing fuel economy. And it was just a stock family hauler/commuter. In comparison, the only non-standard maintenance a 2000 CRV I owned for over 10 years required was a rad replacement (and that was cheap).
The Soob probably ranks as worst hype vs. reality experience I’ve had. Second place was a 1985 Cherokee.
Well that’s because it was a 1985, and if you expected a 4cyl or V6 XJ to live up to the XJ hype(which entirely revolves around the 1987+ 4.0) then you must not have done much reading.
I must have my year wrong, because it was definitely a 4.0 (I knew that much). I’ve just tried to forget the whole thing.
Wow, you had a bad experience with a 4.0? That’s rare.
A year long series of bad experiences. And this wasn’t a $500 junker. It appeared to be in quite good condition and it had people who generally know what they are doing working on it. I keep my cars in good condition and before the XJ I had only had one tow experience. The Jeep needed three in under a year. Never again, which is too bad because when it wasn’t stranding me on the side of the highway I liked it.
I grew up with Jeeps, all XJs with the 4.0L. An ’87 Limited, a ’91 Limited, and ’95 Country. Yes, they can have problems (and engine fires!) even with meticulous care and maintenance.
I also have a lot of personal experience. They can absolutely have problems, but in my experience it’s pretty rare for them to have any problem other than the engine falling out and the doors falling off. Which, to be fair, are pretty bad.
Sorry about all this Matt.
I have a female friend who has dealt with the same issues you describe. Because she is not a car person, she calls me to ask questions about all the crap wrong with hers.
And because she is struggling to make ends meet, it’s hard to tell her to dump it and buy a Toyota. But I know she will do that eventually.
It’s a real shame that Subie does to seem to care enough to do the engineering and upgrades to produce a decent car these days. Good luck with with all of this cash eating crap that you are dealing with. I feel your pain.
the first car i bought as an adult was an 05 Outback with a stick and was several years old when i got it. I loved it. No problems at all until someone rear-ended it and totaled it. Had it less than a year, and it around 80k miles on it when it got totaled. I wanted the exact same car and some dealer 2 hours away had an 06 with a stick for right around the same amount of money as my insurance payout. Except when i got there, it was not a stick, it was an automatic. I was mad the listing was a lie but i needed the car and the price was right and i loved my other one. This one had around 110k miles.
The problems started very soon. CEL popped on, ok just needs new plugs. But it’s a boxer so plugs are a huge pain.
Then, it got LOUD. Tires were worn unevenly, and were about ready to get replaced. So i got an alignment and tires. Things were no better. So i took it in to get the bearings replaced.
The mechanic replaced my bearings, and then was like “Look. I saw a bit of oil on the block. Has it had a new head gasket yet? Literally all of these get cracked gaskets at this age. They all also need new timing belts around this age, so i strongly suggest you do the belt at the same time you do the gasket. That’s going to run you 4k on top of the money you already spent on the bearings. So i suggest figuring out if you want to keep it.”
Dear Reader, i did not want to keep it.
Traded that thing in after less than a year for a brand new base model Mazda 3 with a stick, about 15 better MPG, quicker more engaging drive, not as huge but still great cargo room in the hatch, and most importantly: ten full years of absolutely trouble free use. Did the brakes once, did the plugs once, did the tires twice and that’s literally it outside of Oil/Filters as necessary.
Once i got out of the Subie cult, i started realizing how behind they actually were. Worse mileage than other AWDs, poor reliability even though literally all non-car-people think they have a reputation for reliability, modern non-stick examples leave you dead inside to drive, and outdated interiors.
“every Subaru is at least a little misaligned roughly 10 minutes after an alignment and for the rest of its life.”
that isn’t a Subaru thing really, had the same issue with Toyotas and Fords myself. Really the only cars that didn’t need alignments every few months have been Honda and MDX, so far.
loved my 92 Legacy wagon with turbo, never seen anything like it before or since. A performance family car, it was wonderful. It needed a transmission rebuild at 140k but went on happily after that, and otherwise never needed much.
otoh my son’s 2003 WRX has been the fussiest bit of machinery I’ve ever had to keep running. Constant feeding with parts and diagnostics and tinkerings, sheesh.
Knock on wood, my 2012 Outback 3.6R does not have these issues. Tire wear has been good after punting the OEM Continentals for Michelins (not uneven, they just wore fast). I’ve replaced the brake lights, a fog light or maybe it was a parking light, that has been it so far.
And I’ve read not great feedback about “ultra bright” bulbs like what was pictured. I bought some Sylvania “long life” bulbs for my Toyota when it needed them and they’ve lasted a while again like the OEM ones did. None of the autoparts stores stocked this bulb though, I had to get it online somewhere.
I can be very sentimental at times, but brutally pragmatic at others. Sometimes I feel a twinge of remorse or guilt when I remember that I’ve sold both vehicles I’ve brought my kids home in. The older I get, the more I realize how resilient kids are, that they don’t care what car they’re ferried around in, and that memories can include the cars you’ve had, but aren’t exclusively tied to them.
That said, I think if I sold my Wrangler, at least one of my kids wouldn’t be on speaking terms with me…
Out of all the cars my parents have owned I only had attachment to two or even really memories of them. My dads 01 F-150 he bought new because nearly every family vacation I remember was done in it, it hauled our fishing boat, and once I got my license I used it to haul several cars and several friends cars. He just crossed 200k miles in it with few serious issues and I went through and did a refresh on it not long ago. The other is his old daily, a 2000 S10 2.2L with the five speed because I learned to drive stick in it. I bought it from him a few years ago when he got a 21 Ranger and still use it regularly. All the others(in other words, my moms cars) were generic commuters I didn’t care much about either way since she saw them as and treated them like appliances versus my dad who washes and waxes his trucks at least once a month and really values them.
If it’s a cool car, the kids get attached to it and make memories in it. My dad’s 1995 Cherokee 2dr 5spd that has been his daily since before I was born will never leave the family. My friends have similar stories with a 1971 Celica, 1995 Land Cruiser, ect.
Nobody, kids or adults, are getting attached to a 2016 Forester, for any reason.
Regarding the headlights: Its a Sylvania Silverstar Ultra problem, not a Subaru problem.
There was a class action lawsuit in Canada over the advertised lifespan of the bulbs. I had to replace a pair of bulbs less than 12 months after installing them in my Mazda, so I jumped on the class action and got a measly ~$20 back.
You’re better off just using regular bulbs. The fancier bulbs emit slightly more light but cost significantly more and their lifespan is ridiculously short.
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/approval-notice-for-the-sylvania-automotive-lighting-class-action-settlement-612672903.html
This. is good to know, thank you!
Those Silverstar Ultras are known to be pretty bad. From what I understand they try to function similar to HID bulbs and have an extremely short lifespan due to that. They aren’t even really much brighter it is primarily a color difference making it feel brighter.
Right. I believe they draw a bit more power and have tinted glass to give the illusion of being brighter and better. Their regular bulbs are just fine.
We’re on our second (used) C-MAX (the first one went to my mother-in-law at 150,000 miles and is still low-maintenance). It’s fine; it’s a transportation appliance that doesn’t require much maintenance (and gets decent gas milage). With snow tires on, it gets around in the winter without drama. They don’t sell them in the US any more.
Had a C-Max. It was nicknamed the Tardis because it’s ridiculously spacious for such a small package.
It’s a fun car to drive, too. I traded a Mk.V GTI, and the C-Max has all the performance that I actually used in ordinary driving. The steering is just as crisp and accurate, evidence of the C-Max’s Focus rally roots. The Ford’s tires are the same size and cross-section as my ’09 GTI, and it accelerates as quick as my ’88 GTI did. It’s certainly not as good-looking as a GTI, inside or out, but that’s the main drawback. And it won’t go on rough, slippery roads like Forester.
We have a 2015 premium and fortunately have avoided a lot of the problems listed here (except for the damn wheel bearings…had to replace 3 of them around 90k miles). The visibility and cargo space in it is great. It’s underpowered and the engine buzz is annoying but fortunately I guess I’ve gotten used to the CVT when daily driving. Around town hasn’t been bad mileage-wise but if you drive over 70 on the highway it drops a ton which is annoying. I’d move on from Subaru with our next car but unfortunately my spouse loves them a lot more than I do.
I owned a new 2010 or 2011 Legacy 3.6 limited for about 6 months. It drove great, but it consumed oil like it was an alcoholic at a free bar. Oddly it wasn’t leaking, and nor was there any smoke. The oil light came on 4 weeks after a service, and there was either no or very low oil on the dipstick. I couldn’t dump that thing fast enough.
I have a 2017 which left me inconveniently stranded with the battery issue while it was still less than a year old. I had forgotten about that.
It was a nice day and we went to pick up pizza from a place in a touristy area. We parked near the place on a pedestrian-heavy street. Left the dogs in the car, walked to get the pizza and went back to the car. Car was completely dead. No signs of electrical life at all.
I had not brought leashes for the dogs. So we had to stay with them in the car sitting like a couple of a-holes while half the local population walked past us just sitting in a parked car. Old coastal city, so the streets aren’t clearly laid out and some are on-way. We watched the tow truck drive through every intersection kind of near us before I finally called dispatch and talked the guy over to me.
I can’t even remember if I brought it to the dealer or just replaced it out of pocket. The cost of a battery is not far off what I would pay to avoid going to the dealer.
Question for the knowledgeable here: when were Subarus last really desirable, I mean to people like us? Before the CVTs I’m assuming, but when exactly?
Probably when they were dominating the world rally circuit.
That was my general take, but I’m not enough of an expert to know for sure. And about that time, the girl I was dating had a late ’80s Legacy wagon that simply refused to die, so that colored my perception too.
I’m not sure they ever have been in many ways. I had an older modified Forester XT and it’s a bad sign when you go to your tuner and they say “sounds like a modified Subaru.” That’s not even getting into how bad the WRX manual transmission is. STI drivetrains are actually good, but they’re still stuck with the EJ.
I’ve often been confused by the anti 5mt WRX statements, unless maybe you are referring to the newer 6 speed. I’ve had them in multiple vehicles, including one swapped in to an SVX behind the 6 cylinder, and never had any concerns. The people I see complaining about them seem to flog them pretty hard. I’ve run a non turbo up to 255K and my current 06 turbo manual is 170K. I have no issues whatsoever.
The old 5 speed and new 6 speed are the same (TY75 serial number). It’s not a performance transmission, but was put into a performance oriented car. Any amount of power put through them will shred gears. And not even high power: I shredded 3rd gear with about 400whp getting onto the highway.
Interesting. I didn’t realize the 6 speed was just a modification of the 5 speed. But I think we disagree about what makes for a poor transmission. I wouldn’t consider a transmission that can’t handle a 75% increase in horsepower to be a weak transmission. I would consider anything beyond about 10% increase to be owners risk, regardless of the vehicle in question.
02 wrx here. I stumbled backwards into it for cheap from an old wrenching buddy, so just bought it without even lifting the hood. Then I read about how the transmissions were made of glass, etc. kept digging and found that they don’t hold up long-term much above 300hp—and especially if you downshift aggressively. So I only play hard on loose surfaces like snow or gravel. With a OTS 93 octane tune & a lightened flywheel it spools up very nicely. I don’t flog it on the pavement as I depend on my license for my job—and I don’t want to be That WRX Guy.
Maybe mid-2000’s? The cars were lighter, manuals available in a lot more models and trim levels. No CVTs.
I’d also think with the cars being a little bit lighter, they may not have felt so terribly slow. I’m not a speed demon, but I couldn’t get by with their 2.0 engine. (If they dropped the stupid horizontal engine and got normal horsepower out of an inline 4 then it would be plenty of power).
And I will get back on my anti-horizontal Subaru engine rant. What is the point of a flat motor in a Forester? It’s 6+ feet tall with a giant heavy panoramic glass sunroof at the very top of that. There is no reason to pretend you care about center of gravity.
I lost interest after the EJ22 was dropped. Progress, they said…
Much of the current enthusiast love drops off after 2007. A 2007 STI in decent shape will pull $25K where I am. A 2018 STI in better shape will only pull $28K. I daily flog a saab 92x turbo (read fancy WRX). Its my second in a row and I love it. I live 20 minutes outside a ski/resort town in the Rockies. I love the mechanical AWD in the winter, I enjoy driving the car even as I daily it to death. But yes, their CVT all things is bad for enthusiasm. Its not as bad as Nissan’s by ANY means, but its not great.
From my perspective, 90s and earlier 00s. Around 08-10 is what I usually hear enthusiasts site as the downward spiral
I’m a big Subaru fan, and I love 2004 and earlier Legacys, 2005 and earlier Imprezas/WRXs/STis. There was a lot of cost cutting after that. Within that range, avoid the DOHC EJ25D (choose EJ22 in the ’90s Legacys). The EJ251 in the 2000-2004 Legacys will develop external oil leak in head gaskets, but is permanently fixed with MLS head gaskets (when repaired properly). It’s a known issue that can be a negotiation point when buying (look at service records and peek under engine and take a look) since no one is buying new at this point.
I have only good to say about my 25 years combined between my 1996 and 2003 Legacy manual wagons. Edit: forgot adding another year with my first Subaru, a great Loyale that I unfortunately totaled, so 26 years combined.
About 20 years ago, before they tried to go mainstream. The B9 Tribeca was a bright sign of the brain rot about to befall the company.
The “hawk-eye” and “bug-eye” cars are generally the last of the good ones, minus rust and possible head gasket issues.
Well the silver lining is that the new Forester is eventually getting a hybrid powertrain from Toyota. I think that will fix some of the complaints. It’ll get better gas mileage, Toyota’s eCVT is better than the garbage Subaru saddles every single one of their vehicles with, and the electric torque should make it a little less lugubrious…not to mention it probably won’t be as unappealing of a sensory experience as Subaru’s wheezy, drone-ey naturally aspirated boxer engines.
That being said, I’ve driven a couple of Subies and I’ve never really understood their rabid cult following. They’re just kind of…there. They don’t have anything that’s really class leading outside of the actual wagons, and even those are more or less good solely because they have almost no competition. The interiors are really bland, as you mention they’re no where near as trouble free to own as a Honda or Toyota, they saddle everything with goddamn CVTs, I could keep going.
Is their all wheel drive system good? Definitely, but more people need to have honest conversations with themselves about whether or not they truly need all wheel drive. The fact of the matter is most folks don’t. If you’re one of the people who does then go for it, but other than that I don’t see the appeal.
That being said, Subaru has some of the most effective marketing in the entire industry. Everyone knows Subaru. They were one of the first companies to include gay couples in their advertising. My wife, who doesn’t give a shit about cars, will intently watch every Subaru commercial that comes on because there are dogs in them and usually says something like “wow that was cute, I love Subaru”.
They somehow convinced everyone they’re an environmental brand despite not being one…and they know damn well that seemingly everyone imagines themselves as an outdoorsy person and play that image up at every chance they get. I think normies legitimately get into Subarus and are like “I’m a woodsperson now, take me to the nearest mountain.” Subaru gets that you don’t even need to cash those checks, you just need to get peoples’ imaginations going.
The cars themselves? I don’t really care or see the appeal, although the Forester Hybrid is going to be a ridiculously compelling family hauler option when it arrives. The brand and marketing? S tier. Absolutely incredible work that should be studied as part of every business degree curriculum.
Your point about AWD is quite good – I feel it’s become a sorta talisman of “safety” for a lot of people, and thanks to SUVs/CUVs, they simply expect it now. Which Subaru wisely noticed, and…
I drive my Kona N through bad weather all the time and it fuckin rips. FWD with an LSD would work for the majority of people and no one is changing my mind.
With respect, “bad weather” in DC is “normal winter day” for a lot of the country.
Our bad weather would be apocalyptic for people who don’t live in the mountains, open prairies, or lake-effect snowbelts. There are times and people for which AWD is entirely appropriate and necessary.
I agree with you that less people probably need AWD than purchase it, but I also wouldn’t presume to judge FWD winter performance on DC weather 🙂
I’m well aware of this lol, I just like to troll the I NEED AWD crowd whenever I can because you’d be shocked how many people in my area and further south insist on it.
I survived 7 years in Pennsylvania with a basically unladen RWD Ford Econoline on all-seasons. Not that I drove it on snow often, but it was serviceable.
I mean, people like me moved to Alaska (or other mountain areas/states) because we are actual outdoors people. And no better inexpensive, lots of choices used, parts available cars than old Subarus. That’s how I developed my love for old Subarus (pre-2005) and they have served me well (can’t imagine better. Objectively better than a 2010 Prius that I also had for 3 years).
And if you need to go up steep grades, AWD plus winter tires absolutely is needed. I’ve had that sinking, extremely precarious feeling when going uphill in a FWD Prius with winter tires gradually losing forward traction until at a standstill (or worse going backwards). It doesn’t help when the road hits 30 percent grade a house before reaching my girlfriend’s house. Engineering Explained had a good recent video that estimated the grades where FWD and winter tires loses out to AWD and winter tires and it’s well below 30 percent (going to say maybe half that without a rewatch).
FWD terrifies me in actual snow.
I have a long-ish driveway and I like to have the option of plowing through it without clearing it if there is an emergency, or if the snow blower won’t work.
We got 10+ feet of snow the first winter I spent here. I don’t feel like I’m buying into marketing hype by keeping an AWD vehicle in the stable.
I live in an area that gets a similar amount of snow annually (typically 90+ inches) and FWD is perfectly fine. I currently have AWD, but I’ve had FWD (and 4×4) in the past and have only one issue. One time I tried to get up my driveway in the FWD Golf during a particularly bad storm (20″+ had fallen by the time I got home from work) and I tried to plow on through. Got stuck. Left it there as I snowblowed the driveway, moved it, finished snowblowing. Went in to eat dinner and by the time I was done there was probably another 3-4″ that I went out and shoveled before going to bed.
I often have to do that when I get home. Just charge in through the snowbank at the end of the driveway and beach it. Then clear the snow and park it.
I personally prefer rwd in snow, but my wife and I share cars and she definitely has different opinions on that.
FWD without an LSD is more than enough for the majority of people. My 1992 Accord rips in the snow. Even something that’s remarkably terrible in the snow like my 2wd f150 still gets me where I’m going.
30 years ago, nobody had AWD cars, and they managed to survive in the winter. If your parents drove in the snow with RWD, bias ply tires, no traction control, no ABS, then you can too.
Yes, with the addendum of “good season-appropriate tires”.
“That being said, I’ve driven a couple of Subies and I’ve never really understood their rabid cult following. They’re just kind of…there. They don’t have anything that’s really class leading outside of the actual wagons, and even those are more or less good solely because they have almost no competition.”
It’s the anti-enthusiast car. And as for your last line, In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king. Also, the dealership experience is light years ahead of their competitors. That’s a difference-maker for a lot of people.
“Better than the garbage Subaru saddles every single one of their vehicles.”
How is it that after nearly 20 years they are STILL using the same basic transmissions that were never good and haven’t gotten better? Its not like they haven’t had any development money coming in from their barely restrained growth. Its not like it would be that hard to get another manufacture like ZF or Aisin to make you a planetary 8 or 10 speed that would net you similar economy and solve SO many of your reliability and drivability issues. Its a longitudinal layout! Granted its a little funky in that you have to integrate a differential in the front and provide for a transfer clutch, but it’s not THAT hard relative to the upsides. Just think of the upsides if your outdoorsy off-road, fun loving marketing image could actually be backed up with a transmission that wouldn’t melt down after 3 years of doing what the ads say?
Well, this is the same company that seemingly forever refuses to spend any money on a good stylist…
Just as they start to improve styling, they decide it was almost good so they have to start mucking it up.
That, and the fact that they use a CVT and then for some reason use simulated shift points. It makes zero sense. If you’ve got a CVT at least take advantage of keeping it in optimal efficiency RPM or optimal power/torque RPM depending on what the operator is doing with the go-pedal.
You know what also has a hybrid powertrain from Toyota? A Toyota. That is likely where I would shop. With electric AWD available, there’s no real reason to suffer any drivetrain in a wrapper of Subaru sadness.
Corolla Cross is an eCVT I believe. Though I do hear some say the e makes it a bit better.
I think it uses a regular gear for launching and then shifts to the CVT once the car’s moving. It should take some abuse away from the CVT parts.
I’ve driven it and it actually does mitigate the terrible low-speed issues that tend to occur with CVTs.
Good. I’m pretty sure the Prius uses a version of it and that is on our short list at the moment.
A Toyota e-CVT has virtually nothing in common with a CVT. It’s a really unfortunate name for what’s ultimately a really nifty, tremendously reliable planetary gearset with electric motors attached.
I have a Corolla hybrid for work and that gear box is bloody brilliant, its so much more precise?(not sure if thats the right description) than the Lineartronic CVT in the Outback.
Same for the Ford hybrids. Mine gives a perfectly smooth driving experience, with good torque available instantly at any speed.
Your kid is adorable! 🙂
Yes, ditch the Subie before the rear springs snap too.
Photo of kid holding apple = totes adorbz
I think they had a recall for the rear springs IIRC.
I’ve been on enough Subaru rants about my own and friends’ experiences. I now just say you don’t have to ask too far to find one with non-trivial problems.
I drove one to see about replacing my XC70 that cooked the head gasket, nope spent the 4k on the Volvo instead
Me too! Mines a 2016 Outback. I solved the tyre problem by shelling out for some BFG’s and they seem to (for whatever reason) wear a lot slower than the Bridgestones it came with and I’d replaced at least once.
My gripe is that it is woefully under powered for such a big car and the CVT is now starting to shudder a bit at low speeds. I think its nearly new car time.
I like the car, I have just never fallen in love with it.