Good morning! Time for another fun-filled edition of Shitbox Showdown. Today’s choices come straight from the exhaust-fume-filled rooms of the Autopian’s inner sanctum, and someone actually considered buying one of these. I’ll let you guess who and which one. But first, let’s find out which of Lee’s greatest hits you chose yesterday:
And the LeBaron takes a comfy win. I am in total agreement, and in fact, if I were ready to shop for a car, I’d probably go give that thing a test-drive. And by the way, you can in fact drive a convertible year-round here in Portland. I did it for many years. Rain on a soft top is a very soothing, romantic sound.
The Autopian’s Slack channel is exactly how you would imagine it: a marketplace of ideas. And by that I mean someone posts a link to a Facebook Marketplace ad, and everyone else encourages their bad ideas. I don’t often get in on the conversations; sadly I’m usually at my day job doing real work while they’re all just sitting around shooting the shit. (I kid, I kid…) But I do sometimes lurk when I get home, to catch up on all the insanity I missed. And it’s a good thing I do, because today’s choices both come from those discussions.
1999 Buick Riviera – $1,495
Engine/drivetrain: Supercharged 3.8 liter OHV V6, 4 speed automatic, FWD
Location: Houston, TX
Odometer reading: 199,000 miles
Runs/drives? Ad says so
I can’t remember who was talking about the eighth-generation Riviera, actually, but when I found this one for sale I knew I had to feature it. I remember liking the styling of these when they first came out, espeically after the snooze-fest that was the prior generation. Although it sold well initially, this final-year Riviera was one of fewer than 2,000 built. The Riviera legacy of stylish sporty personal luxury coupes ended not with a bang, but a whimper.
Which is a shame, because this Riv had the goods. It’s powered by GM’s supercharged 3800 Series II engine, putting out a healthy (for the time) 240 horsepower. The only transmission option was a four-speed automatic, of course; this is GM we’re talking about. But would you really want this car with a stickshift?
We don’t get a whole lot to go on about this particular Riviera: “Runs and drives good cold air” is literally the extent of the body text in the ad. It looks OK but not great outside, and in dire need of an upholsterer inside. I guess you’d have to look at it in person to find out more.
I’d like to know why the hood is ajar as well, and I’m mildly annoyed that since it was already popped, that we don’t get an underhood photo. Ah well, for the price, I guess you can’t ask too much.
1980 Triumph TR7 convertible – $1,000
Engine/drivetrain: 2.0 liter SOHC inline 4, 5 speed manual, RWD
Location: Pontiac, MI
Odometer reading: 80,000 miles
Runs/drives? Nope
First off: As of this writing, this car is sold, and I sincerely hope that I’m wrong about to whom. Not that it’s a terrible idea, it’s just that it’s a terrible idea. If the link disappears, I apologize.
As an MG owner and enthusiast, I am honor-bound to hate the TR7. During its development, an MG version was planned as well, called the Magna (and in fact the first prototype was MG-badged), but British Leyland didn’t want its own cars competing against each other, so the MG Magna was scrapped, and only Triumph got the new model. MG was left squeezing a few more years out of the aging MGB. To add insult to injury, since the TR7 was initially offered only as a fixed-head coupe, my beloved MGB GT was dropped from the American lineup when the TR7 launched in 1975 to avoid competiton.
The convertible version of the TR7 didn’t arrive until 1979. Personally, I think the covnertible looks better than the hardtop, and I really like it in brown. Not many sports cars can pull off brown, but I think this one looks pretty sharp. I’m not sure how well it goes with the red tartan interior fabric, but what can you do?
The TR7 is powered by a 2 liter version of Triumph’s slant-four engine, also used (and extensively developed) by Saab over the years. Early TR7s had four-speed manuals with short gearing that made highway cruising a raucous affair, but this later one has a five-speed with an overdrive in fifth, which calms things down. Assuming the buyer can get it running again, that is; TR7s are finicky.
I can’t tell you how much fun it is working with such an eclectic group of car nuts. I never know what vehicle someone is going to unearth, or where the discussion will go after that. And I hope they don’t mind me mining those discussions for content once in a while. For today, the gems I’ve unearthed are a scruffy personal luxury coupe and a British roadster in its natural non-running state. What’ll it be?
(Image credits: Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace sellers)
I would have liked a 6 speed manual Riviera. but having driven and I suppose sort of owned both through family members, I woudl definitely go with a running 3800 Riviera all day long.
My favorite uncle had a BRG TR7 convertible that he dropped a Rover V8 in (it was a very common swap in the UK where they are know as TR7/8s). It was crude and cheap but fun on the A and B roads in the UK.
I hated TR7s up to the point that I drove his and now they’ll forever be associated with that uncle (RIP). I’d love to buy one and swap out that terrible 4 cyl for a Honda K series – an LS would tear it apart.
they were called TR8’s here in the states. they were only marginally more interesting, both were absolute piles of garbage though.
The TR7 is like an anniversary ring for your Miata. You buy it to remind you how great the Miata is.
Even if you want a roadster, get the Buick, drive it through the winter and get the upholstery fixed, then sell it in the spring for the same price you bought it for and get a miata.
I’ll take the Riv: It’s not a ’63 with a 401 Nailhead, but whut is?…
Well, yeah, the Riv is the practical choice, but I clicked on the Autopian, not MyLameCommute: a vote for the Triumph it is.
Yes, it will likely end in pain & tears & maybe bankruptcy, but, once near it moving under its own power, I would install audio loaded with the Chariots Of Fire theme so I could glory in the few minutes of running before it inevitably sputtered to a halt, caught fire, or just plain broke in two
At one point the Buick V6 was a popular TR7 swap, too bad the Riv. has a front wheel drive engine block, otherwise it could be a bolt in mash-up.
I voted for the TR7 just because fun and frustration wins over a aged country club ride.
Dear God – anybody (everybody?) voting for a TR-7 is certainly unaware of their history. Production had to moved to a different factory twice because the workforce couldn’t be assed to put them together decently. Yeah, this convertible is one of the last ones from ‘the final factory’ (Canley) but that didn’t make up for the poor quality of the engineering or materials BL used.
Here’s one owner’s comments, taken from “AteUpWIthMotor.com” which has an extensive history about them.
“I had a silver 1979/80 TR7 convertable with the red Tartan interior … The red carpet did indeed fade to orange then yellow after only a few days worth of parking at the beach (northern CA) with the top down. Pretty pathetic but representative overall of the materials and workmanship of the whole car.
I bought it new thinking with proper care and maintenance, it would be a decent ride. In 26K miles over 2 years it went through 3 head gaskets, the ignition system, brakes, clutch and pretty much any seal that came into contact with any liquid – oil, coolant etc.
And that’s one from the GOOD factory.
When it did run it was fun to drive, especially up and down the coast highway. Such extravagances were usually punished by a trip to the dealer for more $$$ of repairs.
Edit function please.
90 HP of fun?
Just like yesterday, one car is a far more logical choice.
So I’m choosing the Triumph instead. Unlike the guys in Supertramp, I was never sent away to learn how to be sensible… logical, oh, responsible, practical.
Off to Spotify, thanks!
Riv because supercharged 3800. And it runs, and frankly, these made great highway cruisers. Fix the interior, clean up the outside, and you’ve got a good runner. Plus, most junkyards in the country will have a Riv to harvest parts from.
“First off: As of this writing, this car is sold, and I sincerely hope that I’m wrong about to whom”
Hmmm… The TR7 is in Michigan but it is quite rust free so I’m assuming DT didn’t buy it but at the same time maybe after his HHR debacle he’s looking for a little less rust in his life. Then again I could definitely see Mercedes driving this. Torch would probably love driving it too but I’m going with a dark horse pick and saying that Mr. Hundal bought it. But now that I’m thinking about it Mark saying he sincerely hopes that he’s wrong tells me that DT is going to have a Nash/TR7 driveway when he moves to Cali.
Why am I putting this much effort it? Honestyl I don’t know, it’s Wednesday morning and I’m using my brain power to do this instead of work. Let a sheep wonder! Haha.
If the TR7 were running and I have 12 hours of fix time for each 1 minute of driving, sure.
As it stands, I would take the Buick. Fixing the interior can as cheap or as expensive an you want. Plus I can fit the family in it. I might be able to get into the TR7.
Triumph for me. The Riv was cool enough when it was released, but not something I’d want to daily, and certainly not to take to the local Cars & Coffee. The TR-7 would be fun to revive and bomb around in on the weekends- plus it meets my personal weird, unloved car criteria.
Still no confessions from the staff about the TR7?
Never liked the TR7/8. Convertible is better looking, but most of these turds have been sitting in perpetually non-running states in driveways, yards, and garages until they finally end up in the junk yard since they were practically new. They’re like the Walmart bikes of cars. I also hate that healthy stool paint and the tartan upholstery—though I went to parochial school, I harbor no associated fetishes and don’t suffer from nostalgia nor am I Scottish, so I don’t need to pretend to like it (no offense to Scotts—you’re a damn cool people). If I had to pick an unreliable lower end British wedge, I’d go TVR.
I always kind of liked those Buicks and I’m more curious about them. It’s the kind of vehicle you just don’t see anymore, but not as terrible as something malaise era. Seat shouldn’t be a tough fix and those engines are nearly unkillable with plentiful replacements.
I always liked these Rivs, and think they still look good. Supercharged 3800? Yes, please. Clean it up a bit, set a maintenance baseline, get that seat fixed, and cruise in distinctive comfort for not a lot of dough.
The only triumphs I like are the 4/4a/6. The 7 was pretty finicky and to me too much trouble. If I were to get a wedge type, it would be the TR8. Reluctantly choosing the Riviera
One of these is a project car, the other is just a crappy old car.
Exactly this. Once (if) you get the TR7 running, you’ve got a classic British sports car, the envy of all your friends.
With the Buick, the neighbors all think you have bad credit.
Haha! Yes!
Buy the TR7 and Iron Duke it. Or Honda swap it. And just hope the suspension isn’t completely trashed as that would require proper parts.
Yeah – with a VTEC the car would be a rocket!
Legendary car designer Giorgetto Giugiaro, upon seeing the TR7, initially said nothing. He walked around to the other side and exclaimed “My God! They’ve done the same to the other side as well.”
Love that story.
That being said, I think I’d go for the TR7 anyway.
“Would you really want this car with a manual transmission?”
…over a GM 4 speed slush box? Absolutely. Every single time. Whenever I drive older cars the one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb to me is usually the transmission. Granted I’ve been spoiled by having two DCTs in a row, but it’s crazy how awful automatics were until the last decade or so.
That being said, Triumph for me…and if you all keep sharing these British roadster project cars with me I may make a rash decision and buy one of my own. I live about a half hour from a super reputable shop that specializes in restoring them. It’s tempting.
You might want to chat with that shop about cost(s) before acting on any such temptation.
Oh don’t worry, I would
As a spoiled manual driver, I feel the opposite about autos—the newer ones have way too many speeds, so they’re always jumping around and often at the worst times. Operating them manually is only more frustrating as they might shift after an interminable delay or not and since there are so many ratios, several downshifts are probably needed. I hate them so much that I actually prefer the experience of a decently tuned CVT, though I wouldn’t choose it for longevity. Not that old autos were fun (or efficient), but I found them less frustrating. Of course, part of the difference is that everything pretends to be sporty nowadays and those old autos were likely mated to wafting cruise mobiles that better matched the character of the transmission.
Which ones have you tried? I haven’t experienced those issues with the ZF8, VW DSG, or the wet clutch DCT in my Kona N. People complain a lot about the Ford/GM 10 speed but I’ve driven it in two different Camaros and thought it was fine to good. It was inoffensive when paired with the V6 and enjoyable when paired with the LT1 V8. I find that you don’t really deal with gear hunting as much when you make sure to send the car the right signals.
I’m not comparing to DCTs, just traditional autos, which I admittedly avoid, but there was an about 8 year old F150 whatever that transmission was, Cadillac 8 or 9 speed, and a Passat which only wasn’t as bad because it had just 6 speeds to hunt and hesitate to downshift with. All had me missing a predictable 3-speed with OD and simple kickdown (or a manual, of course). My sister’s CVT Ascent, OTOH, is fine. Certainly not entertaining, but not frustrating or annoying like a Nissan or older Honda hybrid (they both probably got better in the last decade, but I don’t care to find out).
Fair enough, out of that sample I’d be frustrated too, especially if I was a manual die hard like you are. I can drive stick and enjoy it quite a bit, but living and working in the city I’d personally never want to daily one…thus why I gravitate towards DCTs. But if you get the chance definitely check out the Ford/GM 10 speed in a sporty application. I thought it was fantastic in the Camaro SS rental I had it in…very mechanical feeling, responsive, and made amazing noises when shifting.
That being said at the end of the day I’d still rather have rowed my own with that glorious Tremec that’s standard kit…but it’s a great auto when it’s tuned properly. God, now I’m just thinking about the current Camaro again. What a platform. Absolutely not daily-able unless you live in the country or deep burbs and won’t ever have to carry more than one passenger or suitcases, but as a pure weekend/fun car? I’d love one.
I daily a GR86 with a hitch (probably getting a trailer for the kayaks next year) and I’m probably back to driving 30k+/yr around Boston, so I’m fully on the far end of the manual spectrum. Only thing I would want an auto in that I would drive would be a big goofy boat, like this Buick, which nobody really makes anymore, but I think I’d tire of it as a daily and it’s also not my idea of a second fun car, either.
I only drove one DCT (and not even a good one) and I think I could get used to it—I’d lose the clutch and push-pull shifting moves that I love, but I’d have the control.
Ultimately, without a manual, I’d rather go electric and have no transmission at all to deal with or worry about breaking. Boring is boring, so I might as well have the reliability and lack of frustration of no transmission.
I’ve always loved the look of the TR7, maybe excluding that prow, oof. Wedged goodness with pop up headlights and a manual. Since it’s sold, I suppose I’ll have to console myself with my NC2 with modern crash protection and not powered by Lucas, the prince of darkness.
Full disclosure: I would LOVE to have a Riv of this generation, but I want a minty clean one; it’s the kind of car that demands looking good, and this one never will. The TR7 falls fully into project car territory, but isn’t that kind of the point with a car like that? I’d go for the TR7 out of these two.
This one is cleaner than it looks. The front seats are shot, which is honestly pretty normal for these. But the foam is largely intact. Means the weather seals are still good. Doesn’t need any major or hard to find parts that I can see. My biggest concern would be subframe rot and a parasitic draw (common issue and easily diagnosed and solved.)
Much more importantly to me is that this isn’t a silver or white Riv. “What? It’s clearly white!” No. It’s 140B White Diamond Metallic. That’s not discoloration in the back; it’s intentional color shift. Unfortunately that large chip in the A pillar means it’s a total reshoot (can’t blend that stuff at all,) but since you need to restore all the trim, may as well.
Way cleaner than it looks! Most of the Shitbox Showdown-priced Rivs in my area have racing stripes in the form of large swaths of missing paint. Heck, I’ve even personally witnessed a whole sheet of blue paint coming off of a Riviera from this era, and multiple sheets peeled off of an Oldsmobile LSS.
I reckon the buyer of this isn’t going to do any sort of restoration. They’ll toss some cheap seat covers on, maybe do a DIY job on the paint chip, then drive it until the heat death of the universe. lol
I picked the TR7, for one important reason:
The Riv is from Houston, and it was / was likely there in 2017 (it’s not a 2018 or newer model).
Aka, POSSIBLE HARVEY FLOOD CAR!!!
I’d have to do a full exterior / interior inspection and sniff test before giving anything that meets the parameters above any consideration.
Buick. That is the only correct answer. It’s not even a contest.
Runs and drives? No shit. It’s a 3800 Series II. An engine that will go moon mileage in the hands of people who think the oil change interval is 30,000 miles. It’s a ’99 so it’s a 4T65E-HD with the big chain. Yeah, it needs new front seat covers, big deal. The foam looks to be mostly intact. As long as the subframe’s intact, drive it home.
Forget whether or not the TR7 sold. If you choose literally any other shitbox over a Buick with a 3800 Series II, unless that Buick’s got serious rot, you chose incorrectly.
Well, that’s entirely dependent upon one’s use case for shitboxes. As daily drivers on a microbudget, sure, the Buick is the only choice. But I’ve already had a kinda weird-looking not-quite-white Buick about seven years before this one was new (a ’62 Skylark that was worth all four hundred of the bucks it cost me, in part because of the hilarious Old Man aftermarket parts it included: curb feelers on BOTH sides, and no fewer than FIVE rear view mirrors), and right now I’d rather spend my couch-cushion change on the wee brown roadster. It’s probably way rustier than I want to deal with though. If so, I’d change my vote.
This is an awesome & accurate answer…Buick for sure
The Riviera is gonna win like it’s running against Dr Oz, but I’d tak the cheap TR7. There’s so many stupid things you could do: swap in any modern 4cylinder. Try and mate up a SAAB slant 4? V8 swap that thing! Come on, it’ll be fun!
Step 1: LS swap the Triumph
Step 2: die instantly but with a shit eating grin on your face
TR8!
I voted Triumph. I tried to look at these vehicles with green-tinted glasses. I loved the Rivi when this style came out in the mid-90s. The Triumph is a vehicle I liked as a kid in the 70s. But which one would be more fun? The one with the manual.
That’s because you haven’t driven a Riviera.
Yes, it’s an automatic. The horsepower and torque numbers also go in quotes with asterisks that just say ‘sandbagged.’ Repeatedly.
Without a pulley it will cheerfully make elevenses as long as a Park Avenue.
When the 96 Riviera came out, I thought it was a great futuristic view of Buick, but I had an SN95 Mustang at the time with a 5-Spd and I was 25 at the time. So…..though the Buick looked great to me, I was 25 and thought it was an old-mans car. And I still do.