There’s something about cars I’ve wondered about for a long time: when you’re in your car, are you in public or are you in private? I think this is an interesting question because I do not think the answer is clear at all. Even if we consult the law, it seems to be a gray area, but I’m not really all that interested in what some sweaty lawyer has to say – I want to know what my favorite sweaty Autopians have to say! So let’s take a moment and try and think this through.
On one level, we take our cars very much into public spaces: the streets. It’s hard to get much more public than that, open roads, surrounded by potentially thousands of other cars, or even more pedestrians, possibly under buildings with balconies, very much in the sights of many, many pairs of eyes and CCTV cameras and probably drones and satellites or whatever fresh surveillance hell we’ve decided to unleash upon ourselves. If you’re driving your car, you’re very likely doing it in a public space.
And yet, at the same time, how different is being in an enclosed car than being in some closed apartment or a room in a house? I’m not sure it is that different. It’s a private space, inside a car, and yet that private space is in public.
Some people have mentioned the darkness level of window tint as a factor, but I’m not sure how much that should be a criteria. Yes, it’s easier for people to see you pick your nose or give yourself an embarrassingly earnest pep talk if you don’t have window tint, but I think if you’re in your car, you’re still inside a private space, of sorts. I think I’d even apply this to a convertible with the top down, but perhaps with the application of relative speed.
Being in a convertible on the highway at 75 mph feels like a place where you could tell the people you’re with secret things, secrets you would not want to tell them at, say, an outdoor café table. The speed provides some semblance of privacy.
I know I’ve done some very private things in a car parked in a public location, even if that public location was chosen for as much perhaps illusory “privacy” as possible. But it at least seemed somewhat private? And what about those of us who have had jobs where you may have chosen to eat lunch in your car, to get away from everyone and everything; the inside of that car must have felt pretty private in those moments, yes? Was it?
But still, these are just some vague feelings; if you’re in your car, where are you? Are you in public or in private? And that’s not even going into the strangeness of how a car can be a location unto itself: telling someone you’re in your car is often enough information for your location, even without knowing what location your car is in.
It’s a compelling question; so what do you think? Let’s discuss! And argue! And then make up. In private.
I think we must first distinguish between public and in public.
To me, a car is like a front yard. It is private in the sense that if you wish to build a pond, dig a hole, store a rapidly-rusting out Jeep or whatever else in it, nobody is stopping you. (I’m aware of city ordnances, but let’s ignore those in favor of a more universal philosophical approach).
If you decide to put spikes on your dashboard, that’s your prerogative, with the double-edged sword that, being a private space, you’re liable for what happens to other people within your domain. You can attach spirit-healing crystals to your airbag, but if your passenger gets swiss-cheesed by high-velocity good-vibes shrapnel when you unfortunately collide with a jay-walking elephant, that’s on you. Nobody can stop you, and nobody can save you.
But much like your private front yard, your car is in public. If you used your front yard hole (mentioned in paragraph 1) to store the bodies of historical writers that you dug up and connected to a machine that reads tweets about their work so you could generate infinite electricity from their rolling, passers-by would likely witness this contraption and contact the authorities, who would then confiscate the celebrated author’s remains and likely lock you up for intellectual property infringement on Mr. Free Electricity, who pioneered this technology many decades ago before meeting a tragic and mysterious end in a motel room 2 miles from the patent office.
Likewise, if you were to build such a contraption in the passenger compartment of your car to replace the engine, there’s nothing preventing the general public from witnessing this machine and, likewise , contacting the authorities.
Unlike your home, where you can close the curtains and not have to interact with anybody, your car is a tool that interacts with its surroundings. When you are driving, you are outside, in public, and beheld to all the same rules that would bind you if you were walking around outside.
When a vehicle is stationary, with no view from outside, and serving the purpose of a domicile, as with a motorhome, it’s fully private, because at that time, it’s a temporary home. So, if you MUST harvest the rotational power of widespread misinterpretation of Huckleberry Finn, do so in a windowless compartment, or at least one with closed curtains.
Because I am an engineer, there must be a formula to quantify the amount of public/private space. no window tint? 100% public. 0% Limo tint all around, 0% public, or 100% private.
This is because the percentage of window tint is the percent of light allowed through. This is of course not a perfect measurement, but it is close.
But of course there is the matter of windshields as Mercedes mentioned below, they are illegal to tint (in most places, but people still do this otherwise) therefore we have to consider the portion of glass surface area covered by each. Now this will be a mess to format here but I will try, because it is Friday
Said simply, the sum of each section of glass’ portion of surface area multiplied by the percentage of tint on said surface, will result in one net total percentage of privateness.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
So I can sue the government here in California for mandating the low percentage of window tint on front driver and passenger windows as an invasion of privacy? Sweet!
Because I am an engineer, there must be a formula to quantify the amount of public/private space. no window tint? 100% public. 0% Limo tint all around, 0% public, or 100% private.
This is because the percentage of window tint is the percent of light allowed through. This is of course not a perfect measurement, but it is close.
But of course there is the matter of windshields as Mercedes mentioned below, they are illegal to tint (in most places, but people still do this otherwise) therefore we have to consider the portion of glass surface area covered by each. Now this will be a mess to format here but I will try, because it is Friday
Said simply, the sum of each section of glass’ portion of surface area multiplied by the percentage of tint on said surface, will result in one net total percentage of privateness.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
So I can sue the government here in California for mandating the low percentage of window tint on front driver and passenger windows as an invasion of privacy? Sweet!
Flipping someone off within the confines of your vehicle is perfectly legal.
However, putting your arm out the window and doing the same is improper use of hand signals, so clearly there is a divide.
Re: the above. I was driving home one day on a California freeway transitioning from a 2 lane low speed road. I was observing the posted limit (maybe just a bit more). When I got on a downslope, a shitbox with several teens/young 20s went by. The front seat passenger stuck the top half of his body out w/ both arms extended displaying the universal symbol of disdain/dissatisfaction. W/in a mile, a Highwayman in a black and white flew by me and lit the car up and an extended discussion ensued on the shoulder of the road.
Now the law undoubtedly had at least 3 reasons to engage the occupants of the car:
1. Extending body parts outside the limits of the car.
B. Exceeding the speed limit (by more than a few mph).
III. Display of a rude symbol (probably not covered by the 1st amendment.
i always have taken it as instant karma getting in her licks.
Flipping someone off within the confines of your vehicle is perfectly legal.
However, putting your arm out the window and doing the same is improper use of hand signals, so clearly there is a divide.
Re: the above. I was driving home one day on a California freeway transitioning from a 2 lane low speed road. I was observing the posted limit (maybe just a bit more). When I got on a downslope, a shitbox with several teens/young 20s went by. The front seat passenger stuck the top half of his body out w/ both arms extended displaying the universal symbol of disdain/dissatisfaction. W/in a mile, a Highwayman in a black and white flew by me and lit the car up and an extended discussion ensued on the shoulder of the road.
Now the law undoubtedly had at least 3 reasons to engage the occupants of the car:
1. Extending body parts outside the limits of the car.
B. Exceeding the speed limit (by more than a few mph).
III. Display of a rude symbol (probably not covered by the 1st amendment.
i always have taken it as instant karma getting in her licks.
Well here in my car, I feel safest of all. Not to mention I can lock all my doors. So I would say private.
It’s the only way to live.
Do you feel like a Nu-man when you step out of said car?
Well here in my car, I feel safest of all. Not to mention I can lock all my doors. So I would say private.
It’s the only way to live.
Do you feel like a Nu-man when you step out of said car?
Definitely tons of qualifiers and grey areas.
Aurally? Private when moving.
Physically? 100% private. If I am driving my vehicle alone, the vehicle becomes my new Personal Bubble.
This was one of the things I loved about my van. Drove to a wedding two hours away and didn’t feel like driving home in the suit, so I pulled all the shades down and drew the dividing curtain and got changed into casual clothes before driving home.
Had a black, 96 Impala w/5%limo tint on the back windows. My daughter felt comfortable nursing her infant in the back seat. As in it was a private(ish) space.
Definitely tons of qualifiers and grey areas.
Aurally? Private when moving.
Physically? 100% private. If I am driving my vehicle alone, the vehicle becomes my new Personal Bubble.
This was one of the things I loved about my van. Drove to a wedding two hours away and didn’t feel like driving home in the suit, so I pulled all the shades down and drew the dividing curtain and got changed into casual clothes before driving home.
Had a black, 96 Impala w/5%limo tint on the back windows. My daughter felt comfortable nursing her infant in the back seat. As in it was a private(ish) space.
Cars are private property that we operate in public. No tint means you’re an exhibitionist; tinted windows means you’re a prude.
Yeah, I said it. Roll your windows down, you Puritan!
Especially when going by my semi. I get a fantastic view.
That was you?
Cars are private property that we operate in public. No tint means you’re an exhibitionist; tinted windows means you’re a prude.
Yeah, I said it. Roll your windows down, you Puritan!
Especially when going by my semi. I get a fantastic view.
That was you?
If you cannot see into a given part of the car from outside of said car as it currently is then that part of the car is private space (like a trunk, camper with shades drawn, etc.) but this requires that all noises, smells, etc. stay within the car. Once the public can sense it it becomes a public issue and therefore imho it strays into public space.
If you cannot see into a given part of the car from outside of said car as it currently is then that part of the car is private space (like a trunk, camper with shades drawn, etc.) but this requires that all noises, smells, etc. stay within the car. Once the public can sense it it becomes a public issue and therefore imho it strays into public space.
This question was addressed on the groundbreaking 80’s TV show Dukes of Hazzard when Roscoe wanted to search the cab of Cooter’s tow truck but he stated “A man’s truck is his castle.”
There you have it, case closed. If you are in your own truck, it’s private. If you are in someone else’s vehicle, then that’s public.
The best legal advice comes from guys named Cooter!
That’s certainly true of Justice Cooter Cletus Yokel McGee, who was appointed to the US Supreme Court in 1830 by Andrew Jackson (pres., Dem.-Pop. Fuckwad pty., 1829-1837) but was prevented from succeeding Chief Justice John Marshall (Federalist-Slaver) by his premature death in 1832.
This question was addressed on the groundbreaking 80’s TV show Dukes of Hazzard when Roscoe wanted to search the cab of Cooter’s tow truck but he stated “A man’s truck is his castle.”
There you have it, case closed. If you are in your own truck, it’s private. If you are in someone else’s vehicle, then that’s public.
The best legal advice comes from guys named Cooter!
That’s certainly true of Justice Cooter Cletus Yokel McGee, who was appointed to the US Supreme Court in 1830 by Andrew Jackson (pres., Dem.-Pop. Fuckwad pty., 1829-1837) but was prevented from succeeding Chief Justice John Marshall (Federalist-Slaver) by his premature death in 1832.
I have a weird story somewhat relating to this. In 2012 I was still finding myself. I couldn’t dress up at home because my parents didn’t know. My parents couldn’t know because I knew how they would have reacted. Sadly, when I finally did come out that nightmare became reality.
Anyway, my car became the closet of the new woman I just named “Mercedes.” But, I couldn’t just change clothes in a tiny Smart Fortwo because everyone would see me. I had limo tint applied to every window but the windshield. This allowed me the luxury of my car being a rolling dressing room. It was amazing how well the tint worked. One time I drove around in my underwear (long story) and nobody seemed to notice or care. The car was like having an invisibility cloak.
The downside was that I had to be strategic about where I got dressed. One time, I got dressed for a late-night party by parking in a strip mall and getting dressed in the car. I somehow didn’t notice the cop car hiding in the darkness. I guess it took me a while because out of nowhere, the reds and blues turned on and a spotlight got pointed into my car.
He said I was there for 45 minutes and it was suspicious that someone would just park in a closed shopping center for so long. Cop saw a woman, but a car full of guy clothes. I explained myself and the cop was shocked enough that he just stepped back, got in his car, and drove away. Well, he wanted an explanation…
I’ve known a few trans folks who intentionally bought vans so they could do their business in private and avoid restroom confrontations. Got a “portapotti” myself and bring it along when I’m sleeping in places with no public facilities, but seldom use it.
I can’t imagine changing clothes in a smart for two. It’s hard enough to do in an aircraft lavatory.
I have a weird story somewhat relating to this. In 2012 I was still finding myself. I couldn’t dress up at home because my parents didn’t know. My parents couldn’t know because I knew how they would have reacted. Sadly, when I finally did come out that nightmare became reality.
Anyway, my car became the closet of the new woman I just named “Mercedes.” But, I couldn’t just change clothes in a tiny Smart Fortwo because everyone would see me. I had limo tint applied to every window but the windshield. This allowed me the luxury of my car being a rolling dressing room. It was amazing how well the tint worked. One time I drove around in my underwear (long story) and nobody seemed to notice or care. The car was like having an invisibility cloak.
The downside was that I had to be strategic about where I got dressed. One time, I got dressed for a late-night party by parking in a strip mall and getting dressed in the car. I somehow didn’t notice the cop car hiding in the darkness. I guess it took me a while because out of nowhere, the reds and blues turned on and a spotlight got pointed into my car.
He said I was there for 45 minutes and it was suspicious that someone would just park in a closed shopping center for so long. Cop saw a woman, but a car full of guy clothes. I explained myself and the cop was shocked enough that he just stepped back, got in his car, and drove away. Well, he wanted an explanation…
I’ve known a few trans folks who intentionally bought vans so they could do their business in private and avoid restroom confrontations. Got a “portapotti” myself and bring it along when I’m sleeping in places with no public facilities, but seldom use it.
I can’t imagine changing clothes in a smart for two. It’s hard enough to do in an aircraft lavatory.
The outside of your car is public space, the inside is private space. If a cop stops you and asks to search your car and you say no, they have to get a warrant. Only then can they stash stuff in your car to arrest you for not letting them into your car. However, anything seen inside of your car by the public becomes public space. Non car example, I lived in Jacksonville, AR a long time ago and that was a dry town. If you were drinking a beer in your living room and could be seen from the street by a cop, they could arrest you. Even though it was in your private home, you were visible from a public space. I know, crazy.
Wait, what?! Did you know anyone who actually got a ticket or some kind of enforcement from drinking in their own home or on their own property? My understanding of “dry” areas were that you just couldn’t purchase alcohol in that area… not sure how they could have enforced consumption legally, even if it was a long time ago (but after Prohibition).
Yup, happened all the time. The really odd thing was there was a drinking establishment in town that was a “club” and somehow that was legal.
That sounds like BS.
The outside of your car is public space, the inside is private space. If a cop stops you and asks to search your car and you say no, they have to get a warrant. Only then can they stash stuff in your car to arrest you for not letting them into your car. However, anything seen inside of your car by the public becomes public space. Non car example, I lived in Jacksonville, AR a long time ago and that was a dry town. If you were drinking a beer in your living room and could be seen from the street by a cop, they could arrest you. Even though it was in your private home, you were visible from a public space. I know, crazy.
Wait, what?! Did you know anyone who actually got a ticket or some kind of enforcement from drinking in their own home or on their own property? My understanding of “dry” areas were that you just couldn’t purchase alcohol in that area… not sure how they could have enforced consumption legally, even if it was a long time ago (but after Prohibition).
Yup, happened all the time. The really odd thing was there was a drinking establishment in town that was a “club” and somehow that was legal.
That sounds like BS.
IMO if you can be seen you’re in public. To take this another way, it’s totally acceptable to walk around inside your house naked in front of the windows during the day when the glare from outside doesn’t let people see in, however it’s totally not acceptable to do the same thing at night with your interior lights on.
I knew a woman (over 50) who would stand in front of her living room window naked in the evening, knowing the old man opposite could see her. She got a bit of a thrill & figured the old man appreciated it too. As far as I know, she was never accosted by a cop.
True, but we’re talking about Torch here 🙂
IMO if you can be seen you’re in public. To take this another way, it’s totally acceptable to walk around inside your house naked in front of the windows during the day when the glare from outside doesn’t let people see in, however it’s totally not acceptable to do the same thing at night with your interior lights on.
I knew a woman (over 50) who would stand in front of her living room window naked in the evening, knowing the old man opposite could see her. She got a bit of a thrill & figured the old man appreciated it too. As far as I know, she was never accosted by a cop.
True, but we’re talking about Torch here 🙂
According to my lawyer, the judge, and the cops it is a public thing.
I always roll down my windows when nose picking. The kids love it. And pretending to eat the booger always gets a laugh…
“Pretending.” Riiight
According to my lawyer, the judge, and the cops it is a public thing.
I always roll down my windows when nose picking. The kids love it. And pretending to eat the booger always gets a laugh…
“Pretending.” Riiight
It’s public, in the same way that being in a tent at a crowded campsite or being in a Target dressing room is being in public.
You have the illusion of privacy but you know it could easily be shattered.
… by a bear.
… or by John Goodman… which is kind of the same thing…
https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/06/NYPICHPDPICT000012907328.jpg
Not anymore!
https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/1960584/john-goodman-weight-loss.webp?w=790&f=0e5505a9a83dbb3457cccd3f3e44f796
It’s public, in the same way that being in a tent at a crowded campsite or being in a Target dressing room is being in public.
You have the illusion of privacy but you know it could easily be shattered.
… by a bear.
… or by John Goodman… which is kind of the same thing…
https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/06/NYPICHPDPICT000012907328.jpg
Not anymore!
https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/1960584/john-goodman-weight-loss.webp?w=790&f=0e5505a9a83dbb3457cccd3f3e44f796