Surprise! Everyone acts like going to a car dealer is approximately akin to being flayed alive like Marysas. A new survey of recent car buyers shows that this isn’t the case, with a lot of that positive growth coming from people buying used cars. People enjoy dealers! Cats and dogs living together! Mass hysteria!
In what will be less of a surprise, Maserati is going to delay yet more models as the company considers what it means to be a Maserati in the future. It was going to be an all-EV brand, and that’s probably still going to happen, but not without troubles. GM’s had issues with its EV production and that now extends to a recall for its Brightdrop delivery vans that you’ll have to see to believe.
And, finally, we now know what happened to Stellantis North American COO Mark Stewart. It’s good news!
People Like Buying Cars From Dealerships
If you’ve read this site for a while it’s probably obvious that our partner in this venture is the Galpin family of car dealerships based out of Southern California and run by our co-founder Beau. This is a great fit because we can do things like Trade-in-Tuesday and have access to an incredible amount of resources we otherwise wouldn’t have. That seems like an important disclosure for this morning’s Dump because the news about dealerships is quite positive.
Cox Automotive is out with its annual “2023 Cox Automotive Car Buyer Journey Study” and it includes a lot of the good intel you’d maybe expect for the present moment. For one, with prices so high, a record 68% of consumers were willing to consider new or used vehicles. Another big development that makes sense is that car buyers want an omnichannel buying approach with some mix of online and in-person shopping:
When it comes to car buying in America, the desired state is omnichannel, not entirely digital. According to the latest survey, only 7% of car buyers in 2023 completed 100% of the steps online, while 43% completed steps in a mix of online and in-person (at the dealership), and 50% completed all the steps in person. Used-vehicle buyers were more likely to cite in-person as the solution.
When asked about the desired state and how they’d likely complete their next purchase, 71% of consumers suggested that it would be an omnichannel approach, which seamlessly combines both online and in-person activity. Twenty-one percent of buyers suggested their ideal vehicle purchase process would be entirely online, while only 8% said they would do it entirely in person.
Given that both VinFast and Fisker have recently switched to an omnichannel approach this tracks. Even Lucid, which is purely online like Tesla, has undertaken roadshows and other events to get people in cars.
Ok, so all of this makes sense, but here’s the stat that will surprise y’all: 79% of new car buyers were happy with their new car buying experience. This is back to pre-pandemic highs, and a reflection that an improving car market makes everyone happier. Even more surprising is that a lot of this growth is led by used car buyers, who jumped from 70% to 73%. I’m assuming a lot of these people bought cars at a CarMax or Carvana and not a local buy-here/pay-here lot.
What’s the reasoning behind this improvement in consumer sentiment?
[I]mproved inventory levels, the return of discounting, and a further proliferation of an omnichannel approach to vehicle buying – seamlessly combining online and at-dealership activities – are delivering higher levels of satisfaction and reducing the time required to purchase a vehicle.
Dealers have managed to take about 80 minutes out of the car-buying process because, even though people are more satisfied with the dealers, the best satisfaction comes from getting the whole thing over as fast as possible.
Oh, Maserati
In theory, Maserati is going to be coming out with a new Quattroporte Folgore soon. The massive EV flagship sedan is going to be every bit a Maserati and every bit a big, fancy electric sedan.
Let’s check in on how that’s going, via Automotive News Europe:
The Stellantis premium brand has halted development of its Quattroporte Folgore battery-powered large sedan. Maserati did so because of “the need to take zero risks on the performance level of the new car,” a spokesperson told Automotive News Europe.
I think it’s important to make sure that anything Maserati does in the EV realm doesn’t blow up in its face given that, you know, Maserati can’t particularly afford a big hit to its already weak brand.
This is pretty much par for the course for Maserati. Remember the Maserati Gran Turismo Folgore that was supposed to be on sale last year? It’s apparently being delivered about now, to someone, somewhere, maybe.
Brightdrops Are Being Recalled For Fiery… Oil Leaks
GM will recall about 66 of its 2022 vintage of Brightdrop Zevo600 electric delivery vans over a risk of fires after two of the vans caught on fire. We drove one and really liked it, so this is a little bit of a bummer.
Let’s check in with NHTSA to see what the probable cause of this issue is:
The root cause of this condition is still under investigation, but GM’s initial
investigation indicates that these vehicles may contain a manufacturing defect
that, in heavy-duty cycle use conditions, can allow the drive pinion to cut its
way through the outboard side of the drive-unit case. If this occurs, it can
result in an oil leak that in heavy-duty cycle use conditions can lead to an
under-hood fire.
Having your electric van catch on fire because of an oil leak is a little funny, and demonstrates that, while people like to pretend like electric vehicles contain no fluid or complexity, the reality is that modern EVs still utilize a lot of parts!
What I’m Listening To While Writing This
Is “Black on Both Sides” my all-time favorite hip-hop album? Perhaps. Certainly, “Ms. Fat Booty” is my low-key favorite karaoke jam.
The Big Question
What was your last dealership experience? Were you satisfied?
“People Like Buying Cars From Dealerships”
Well I had a look and it looks like dealer AND ‘retail’ (as in Tesla stores) are lumped in together. This is supported by the fact that on page 11, new EV buyers have a better experience than ICE buyers.
And who makes the majority of BEV sales? That would be Tesla. Does Tesla use dealers?
No.
So if anything, this study further supports the Tesla way as being better compared to the dealership model.
“The Stellantis premium brand has halted development of its Quattroporte Folgore battery-powered large sedan. Maserati did so because of “the need to take zero risks on the performance level of the new car,” a spokesperson told Automotive News Europe.”
Well if delaying it means that the product is better and fully baked, then that’s fine. Stellantis doesn’t have the best record of coming out with trouble-free all-new products as we have seen with Alfa Romeo.
“Having your electric van catch on fire because of an oil leak is a little funny,”
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… even if 100% of all vehicles were BEVs, we would still need a decent amount of oil and oil related products. Why? Because even BEVs still need lubricants, coolant, plastics and other stuff.
While they consume a lot less oil, the amount isn’t zero.
So my guess here is that in the heavy-use situations, the motor is getting hot. Combine that with oil and the spark of something rubbing the wrong way or an electrical spark and yeah, you can get a fire.
“What was your last dealership experience?”
My last dealer experience was with a small used car dealer that sold me my Honda Fit. The guy was friendly and very cooperative. And his pricing was competitive (which I already knew ahead of time as I shopped around beforehand). The experience was fine and I had no complaints.
Out of my current three cars, I’ve bought one new car from a local dealership, one used car from an out of state dealership, and one used car from a seller on an online auction site. Out of the three, the local dealership was the “best” experience. But, 85% of that was being able to drive and see the car in person before buying. It still wasn’t an enjoyable experience, it took too damn long to do all the paperwork and declining all the dealer attempted add-ons was super annoying.
Last time I bought a car, it was fine. They actually had the car they said they had. I negotiated a price over email, they honored the numbers when I went in to buy it, and they didn’t try to push any crap. I think the F&I guy said “any interest in a warranty”. I said no, and we moved on. No TruCoat, no fear tactics, no nitrogen filled tires, no key insurance. I was out of there in 45 minutes.
Recently, that dealership (Toyota) was packing stickers with TruCoat bullshit and has now just moved on to straight markup. Needless to say, I wouldn’t have high hopes for a smooth process if I returned there.
Am I missing something? The hooks I’m on are tenter.
Or was this a DIY feature? 5 seconds on Google came up with the answer.
Last dealer experience was positive. Bought a GR86 in ’22. Got exactly what I wanted, no markups (OK, a couple small add ons that were only a few hundred bucks), OTD in about 1.5 hours for under $30k. I live a charmed life.
My last dealership experience was decidedly not positive and resulted in my not buying a car last year. The people were pleasant, but their lack of clarity on financing numbers, percentages and so forth struck me. Like how when I decided I’d over double my down payment and somehow this made the interest rate go up and the payment stay the same, I walked. Having said that, it was a Kia dealership (was looking at a Stinger).
The previous three experiences, Honda Accord (used) in 2021, a Nissan (new) in 2015 and my Mini (new) in 2003 were quite pleasant.
I wonder if most bad experiences lead to a no sale, and if they asked only people who completed a sale? Seems a good way to sway results.
Fair question about methodology.
There is a saying in the business world “you can make a case for anything with statistics” or something akin to that.
I’ve purchased three cars through dealerships, all used. The first experience was terrible, and in retrospect I got a bad deal on a bad car. I was young and inexperienced, so not surprising. The next two experiences were much more recent and were pretty good! Maybe the gray hair and better credit score helped on those occasions, but I was also a much more informed buyer. None of that saved me from 45 minutes of telling the finance guy “no” to stuff, but that’s part of the process unfortunately.
My last dealer experience was fine, mostly because the car was advertised as an “internet only price” so I knew going in that it was a fair price and wasn’t negotiable. The salesman was great. Then we stepped into the F&I office. My god, I don’t know how many times you can tell somebody “I’m not interested in anything you are selling” before they get the hint. This guy was busting out full color charts and re-explaining things that I already declined. I was worried he was about to start singing and dancing to win me over. After about 45 minutes of his sales pitch, he gave up and was one of the rudest people I’ve ever done business with.
One of them told me that resisting makes them try harder. I just sit there stone faced and nod and say no thank you. The way I found out that resisting makes them try harder was after I said no to everything I asked, “What if I would have just said, we can get this done really fast, I don’t want anything.” He said he’d have tried harder. So the path of least resistance is to day dream stone faced and periodically say no.
Hey a new business idea. Buy a car buy a timeshare. Both require you to sit through a hostage negotiation to get out so combine the two.
In completely unrelated news, studies show that 80% of car buyers are unaware they were shafted by the dealer.
Although I guess I did have one good dealership experience out of three so far in my life. When I bought my first car the salesman was extremely low pressure and answered all my stupid questions as a first-time car buyer. We liked him so much that my parents went back and bought another car from him later that year.
My last two dealership experiences were more stereotypical. I’m quite certain they played games with me, but since the numbers all worked out to what I wanted I didn’t go out of my way to peek behind the curtain. I did not drive away feeling like I’d had a good experience though. I felt like I’d been fed a load of BS and told it was caviar.
Maserati should focus on quality, as the previous (brief) owner of a Ghibli, the interior sucked. I was having back pain due to crappy seats. Replaced the car with a used F30 5.5 years ago and still love it. The ultimate testament to what a crappy car the Ghibli was, I lease swapped the car, I was the third owner in a 39 month lease and I punted it to a fourth owner. In 39 months.
I purchased a new Subaru in January 2023, and overall it was a positive experience. I did all of the negotiation, sending of info (ID, insurance, etc.), and deposit via email, text message, and phone call. The only thing I had to do in-person was sign the final paperwork and go through the F&I process when picking up the car, which took about 45min.
After some mild but tactful negotiation, I bought my Crosstrek at dealer invoice and did not pay for any extra services or packages. I consider myself to be a “highly informed” buyer when it comes to the dealer experience, so I know where to push back, where to let things go, etc. For example, my dealer initially tried to charge an extra $1,600 for an “appearance protection package”, which is just clear door edge guards, protective coatings for the paint and interior upholstery (i.e., wax & Scotchgard), and a 5-year windshield replacement warranty. They said “it comes on all vehicles on our lot”, suggesting there is no option to not have it. I told the salesperson that I’m not paying for it, and they obliged to remove the fee. The funny part is that my car still came with clear door edge guards and paperwork for a 5-year windshield replacement warranty.
Buyers who are less informed than me likely won’t be as successful at navigating all the potential up-charges and add-ons, costing them thousands of dollars extra compared to me, all because they aren’t as familiar with the game of buying a vehicle at a dealership. This is the primary reason why there is a negative view of dealerships.
I lived in the same area for 30+ years and learned which dealers I could trust. Maybe people like me who have found their go-to are influencing the results. I moved states about 6 months ago, and my first experience locally was…not good. Ultimately I ended up with an OK vehicle at an OK price, but it was a harsh re-introduction to shenanigans I’d managed to avoid for a long time.
What most stuck in my craw was that the dealer equips every car with a thing called BrakePlus that pulses the CHMSL when you brake. Fine, but they tack $500 for this onto every sale, unless you raise a fuss. I found the modules online for less than $10 a pop, and the installation is probably a 15-minute job.
It’s always something.
I know that they are limited on what they can do by the state laws dealers have lobbied for, but I wish manufacturers would step up on dealers adding the shit like whatever you described and VIN etching, etc.
It undermines the manufacturers because it creates a false appearance that the people taking plastic wrap off cars at Billy Bob’s dealership can improve on something a highly sophisticated multi-billion dollar manufacturing company made.
Oh man, I have been seeing an increasing number of vehicles with CHMSL that flash and all this time I thought it was just how the factory was building them. I had no idea that it’s some other gizmo that dealers are tacking on.
I hate flashing or animated brake lights on cars, and ambulances are the worst offenders. That’s not aiding noticeability, that’s just being obnoxious.
Amen, and the amount of lights and brightness on local trash trucks decreases visibility and safety.
I do think that the dealership model allows me, as a sophisticated buyer, to get better prices than direct from the manufacturer sales because of competing dealers selling the same product. But dealerships still suck.
I know some dealers are using various techniques to buy good survey results.
In the last few years, I have bought 5 vehicles from a dealer (2 used and 3 new). I don’t have any complaints about any of the dealers I ended up buying from. The sales staff was pleasant and I got a decent deal without having to put up with any BS.
My only negative experience at a dealership occurred when I went to look at a certified preowned car recently. I test drove the car and liked it a lot. During the test drive the salesman was aggressive and obnoxious, but I still was interested in buying the car. After the test drive the salesman presented me with a “great deal that I wouldn’t believe” that was far more than the car was worth. I said we were far apart, but if he could do better maybe we could work something out. A few minutes later he came back with a much more reasonable deal that was close to what I wanted to pay (~25% less than the deal he first presented), but I wanted to think about it overnight since it was still a bit higher than I originally intended to pay. He yelled that I should take the deal because I obviously had the money and shouldn’t be concerned about a few thousand dollars. He also said “the deal is for today only since I am not here to sell a car tomorrow.” The guy then stood in front of the door when I went to walk out (I had 100+ lbs on the guy so I can’t say I was particularly intimidated) and balled up his fists like he was going to punch me. He called me two days later and offered me the “today only” deal again, but in a much different tone. By that time I had concluded that the deal was actually reasonable and one I would ordinarily accept, but that I wasn’t willing to buy a car from that jackass (I didn’t tell him that – I just said I was no longer interested in the vehicle). I don’t think I will ever consider a car from that manufacturer again. If that is the kind of person they hire to represent them, they are not a company I want to do business with.
What was the manufacturer?
Don’t take it out on the manufacturer – they aren’t hiring the salespeople, after all. See who owns the dealer group, and avoid any stores they run. For extra funsies, go to a competing store in the area and let them know what bad service you got at [x] Dealer Group and see if they work to get you a better experience.
It is a valid point that the dealer group is the problem and not the manufacturer. I will make sure to avoid all their other dealerships. This guy’s worst behavior was in full view of multiple other employees (and other customers), so they are aware of his behavior and must be okay with it.
While the manufacturer didn’t hire The Jackass, I still associate his behavior with the manufacturer since he was at their branded dealership and wearing a shirt with the manufacturer’s logo. My negative view of this company might change in the future, but for now I think I will avoid them because of his behavior.
My last dealership experience was mostly great. The salesman was a bit on the stereotypical side, but otherwise the process was smooth. And that was July ’22! The only hang-up in the whole process was the dealership not wanting to touch the stupid-money offer that Carvana was going to give me for my last car. The only thing that bothered me was they wouldn’t even budge to Carmax’s price, which would have let me get the deal done the same day for not much extra.
This hits me hard. The first brand new car I ever bought was a fiasco! I went to the dealership around 5pm (maybe 4? I don’t remember any more). After a couple test drives and the haggling on the price, I was shown to the finance office to wait. And wait I did! After taking a quick detour on the way home to show the new car to my nephew, I didn’t get home until midnight. That 5am alarm for work the next day was rough!
It’s gotten better since, however I don’t think I’ve ever been out of a dealership’s finance office in under 90 minutes. (And even that mark is probably being generous to the dealer.)
Went a couple hours away to buy in 2018 because they had both the exact spec I wanted and a better price, but also was easier to work with over the internet compared to multiple other dealers I emailed across the state. I had a similar car in mind (just leather instead of cloth) in the destination area as a backup in mind in case things went awry but it was smooth sailing. Most impressive was the finance department, the F&I guy was honest and basically said “the factory warranty is longer than most people even keep their cars, happy to talk about it down the line but not going to push that stuff on you.” Probably didn’t want to push it either since I was out of their market so not a lot of service retention opportunity. It helped that they could get the paperwork going the day before, but I think I was in and out in the same time or less as it took me to drive there, on a Sunday afternoon of the last weekend of the month.
IIRC the backup dealer was actually an equivalent discount, but they ticked me off when I asked for an explanation on why the price was higher (knowing it was an addendum but wanting it in writing what that was – tint? wheel locks? a glorified wax job?) and the email reply was just “the price is higher because of options that are on the car.” Gee, thanks.
I’ve mentioned I know a couple people that bought cars last year, some after holding out for a bit, and they were all mostly pleased with the experiences and got cars in specs they wanted. Some were same-day, some were deposit situations; I don’t think inventory has improved enough for more availability to be a factor, it varied a lot by brand still, but I think it’s still helped overall because with thinner inventory, you had to search around for the car you wanted rather than drop by to “just browse”. Even with improving inventory, popular models still might require a deposit on the waitlist. But either way there was less pressure to take something you weren’t so sure you wanted and get something you did want, so long as you didn’t expect to drive it home that day.
Another hot button issue has always been trade-in value but used car values have been high so that was basically a non-issue now. Which could very well flip in the coming years as values drop and if people are upside down.
The last couple deals I’ve done have been great working with F&I as people. The length of the process was an issue, but both of them were open and honest with me in regards to what they were selling, what they thought was worthwhile, and taking “no” for an answer without much pushback.
That’s the impression I’ve gotten from people that recently purchased too. They gave price breakdowns and explanations like say what a wheel repair would cost, and not just “you’re gonna want that TruCoat!!”
My last dealership experience was actually 2, and they were polar opposites. I new the type of (used) car I wanted, and found 2 reasonable candidates in the state. One salesman was a total snake, giving me a hard time about a PPI and hard selling me before I sat down with a 4-square even though I said I wasn’t financing, stated throughout the price was firm.
The other knew what was up. I was cross shopping cars and doing PPIs, and was paying by check. She just delivered the car to the PPI for me (dealer was 2 hours away), answered my questions, trimmed the price based on PPI feedback. Offered no addons of any type, and did the paperwork in 30 minutes on a Saturday morning. It helped the 2nd salesperson had a better car on the lot, even though it was 3 years older.
So as always, YMMV. Some are good, some are bad, and likely it comes down to the salesperson or sales manager.
Dealers would be great if the pricing was transparent. It’s literally the haggling with hidden or surprise later add-on fees that leave anyone with a sour taste.
If cars are moving for MSRP+destination+registration/taxes then it’s easy to have a good experience. It’s when you are dealing with discounts, used cars, and hidden profit generating fees were it all goes off the rails.
I can’t help but wonder if internet and internet buying has helped tame the dealer experience-my one new car buying interaction (in ’07) with a Hyundai dealer was everything that people traditionally have loathed about car dealers.
Turns out 21% of new car buyers are going to a Kia dealership
My last dealership experience was buying my wife’s Subaru. We drove 8 hours to a smaller town to get exactly what she wanted and they were fantastic, super friendly, super helpful, gave us recommendations for lunch, the whole deal.
Prior to that I worked at a dealership in a larger city. I hated the ‘business practices’ they expected us to use on customers. Needless to say I just sold cars how I wanted, made some good connections, helped a lot of people actually get what they wanted and got referrals because of it. Management didn’t like that.
So I’ve seen, and been on, both sides of the dealer argument!
I’ve bought two cars from CarMax in the last few years after saying for a long time that the no-haggle thing isn’t worth the premium prices. Since the pandemic, I’ve learned that it is (or can be) absolutely worth the premium. What a pleasant change of pace not to have to hide the fact that you like a car or be one of those “liar buyers”.
My most recent purchase was a 3 month journey to find a specific ND Miata. The first attempt had the dealer sell the car out from under me and then still have the nerve to call me every week to “see how my search was going”.
For the second attempt, the dealer raised the advertised price by $1600 during our initial phone call thanks to a tracking system that they “did me the favor” of adding to the car. Then tried to charge me another $500 to remove it.
Finally, the third one was a winner. Shout-out to Car Plus in Lenoir, NC. Nicest bunch of folks. Did the deal and made a deposit over the phone. No doc fees, no bullshit, had the title papers from the bank within a week. I was already happy with the deal, and the salesman LOWERED THE PRICE without me saying a word. I know! I was speechless! I drove 7 hours one way to buy from them, and I’d do it again in a heartbeat.
So yeah… I was happy with that buying experience. Those other two dealers can suck rocks
Last dealer experience was 2019 when I bought my Fiesta and I was very satisfied. I walked in and said that I was here to see the Fiesta and the salesman basically just said “Most people looking for these already know all about them already, here’s the keys for the test drive just come back before we close”. I test drove it for a bit, came back and signed the paperwork and that was that. Altogether a very quick and painless experience.
Our recent new car dealership experiences have been satisfactory – but this is primarily because we were returning to salespeople we had previously leased multiple cars from and have good relationships with. The salesmen gave us good, not great prices – but good enough to accept – they undervalued the early-lease turn-in due to giving a well cared for car a C-grade and therefore a price that was $5K less than it should have been (height of low inventories, should have been an easy transaction), but with just a little back and forth got to where we wanted to be. The finance guy was bad but not as bad as the last one (these guys rotate like a ferris wheel), nowhere as good as the one 3-cars back.
This dealership used to have a good service department, but now always wants to do service that is not needed and is rather pricy (After the last visit I had to search for the brake flush interval – they wanted to do at 24 months and 24K miles, and found that no flush was needed because we were not in Mexico!). I am now the ferryperson who takes the cars in for service because I feel no guilt turning down the ridiculous requests for service that are not in the service manual – although this remains really annoying – back in the day Acura only sold us one vehicle because EVERY time we brought the car in for service they were asking to do $700 of un-needed overly expensive service, we went to Saab which had maintenance included (and better cars) we miss Saab!
In the spring I have had a couple of discussions with my BMW salesperson, who was honest about me not likely to be happy with the current offerings and told me to either look for lightly-used previous generation (with the buttons) or wait for the newer trim levels to arrive, so I am still driving the 2010 G37 that I inherited from my mom before the Pandemic.
Last dealer experience back in 2015 was positive. Same dealer a few years later checking out a used Sienna AWD for family out of the area was also positive. They let me check out the van, let it go to a local collision shop for a pre purchase inspection, explained why it wasn’t CPO since fixing the cosmetic damage would put it outside a competitive price range, overnighted the paperwork and were cool with me picking it up as an agent of my family member once they signed some document allowing me to do that. That van is still going strong.