Last week I published a review of the new 2025 Ram 1500, which is different from the 2024 model primarily because it has a straight-six engine in place of the legendary HEMI V8, and because it can be had in a new $87,000+ “Carbide” trim. That’s a lot of money for a pickup truck, and a number of commenters made it clear that it was too much money. Luxurious pickup trucks, you see, are completely absurd, these detractors say. I disagree.
“87k for a half-ton?? No, just no,” reads one comment on our Instagram post published just before the truck review. “87k for any truck is too much” reads another.
“There is zero reason for this exist. Just buy an Escalade or Yukon Denali. This will never be used as a ‘truck,'” writes Instagrammer ziltoid_attax, only to be followed up by user dirkmcdougal, who writes: “Leather wrapped luxury PICKUP TRUCK. These things should all be destroyed. Just a testament to how dumb the American consumer has become.”
This is not an uncommon sentiment towards fancy, expensive pickup trucks. Building a luxury truck is a bit like someone putting Armani seats and a Tiffany crystal-shifter in a tractor. Even though folks have been daily driving pickup trucks for 100 years, the reality is that pickup trucks are still seen as work implements. And it makes sense; take one peek at a truck, and you’ll see that half the vehicle (though an increasingly smaller proportion) is a bed that’s not meant to seat any passengers — it’s meant solely for folks to throw stuff into. A humongous element of the truck’s styling communicates “haul things.” Add to that the fact that every single pickup truck manufacturer markets their pickup trucks as hard-working tools, and it’s easy to see pumping luxury into something meant to get dirty and smudged and torn and dinged as a complete waste of time.
Hell, this Ram commercial literally starts with the narrator saying: “A truck is a tool.”
But as the later parts of that commercial clearly show, a truck is no more a tool than aviator glasses are military eye-protection, than Timberlands are work boots, than a fancy Carhartt jacket is thermal protection for factory workers, or than a Mercedes G-Wagon is a military off-road machine. These former tools can still mostly do what they were initially designed to do — and in fact, that’s key to making them so marketable — but their primary usage has evolved.
Pickup trucks were initially work machines, sure, and while some folks did daily drive them in the early days, only in the past 30 or so years — and especially in the last 10 — did they truly evolve into daily-cruisers, with many of them becoming rather swanky. I’m OK with that.
Why must someone who enjoys driving a pickup truck have to pilot a sedan or SUV if they want luxury? Why is a Mercedes S-Class, Rolls Royce Continental GT, or Cadillac Escalade somehow acceptable, but a Ram 1500 Carbide or a Ford F-150 King Ranch or a Chevy Silverado High Country or even a high-end Toyota Tacoma or Ford Ranger isn’t? These are all wallowy, beautifully-riding luxury machines that cost a ton; in some ways you could argue that the trucks represent a less silly way to spend money given that they also offer a versatility that the others don’t.
I think part of the reason why folks dislike fancy pickups is that they are perceived as a threat to the cheap, basic trucks that so many people yearn for. I’m not entirely convinced that that’s fair; a basic 1998 Dodge Ram started at $16,335; that’s about $31,000 in modern bucks. A 2023 Ram Classic costs $32,345 — sure, it’s up a little, but it’s also stuffed with way, way more mandatory safety features and standard content.
To be clear: I would never buy a luxury pickup truck. In fact, the main reason why I purchased my 1985 Jeep J10 pickup was that it was the simplest version of my favorite truck, and in my eyes that makes it the ultimate. It came from the factory with an unkillable AMC straight six, a stickshift, a bench seat, vinyl floors, a stamped tailgate, a regular cab, a long bed, manual locking hubs, and not a whole lot more.
I love a no-frills pickup because I love a vehicle that rarely breaks, and that I can fix easily (I rebuilt the transmission in my kitchen for $150). Still, despite my own personal preferences, I have no issue with folks who love driving pickup trucks — and that’s a huge portion of the American population; head into the country, and you’ll see that pickups are used just like normal sedans or crossovers are in other parts of the country — wanting a bit of luxury in their lives.
There’s no reason why a pickup driver should have to buy an SUV or sedan just because they want nice seats or a magic-carpet suspension. Let these folks continue driving in the type of vehicle they love, but with air springs and massaging leather and big screens. No need for them to have to buy a Yukon Denali. As long as this doesn’t jack up the prices of a bare-bones truck too much, I think it’s time to chill on all the luxotruck hatred.
[Quick Note:
This article applies to all pickup trucks, including the Ford Maverick and Ranger and Nissan Frontier. The issue of trucks and SUVS and crossovers being too damn big is a different topic, but it’s worth noting that the effects that has on pedestrian protection are very real. Having more full-size truck and large SUV/CUV offerings does encourage more people to drive big vehicles, so having a problem with BIG luxury trucks and SUVS/crossovers for that reason makes sense. Though this article is more about the issue so many people have with pickups being fancy since pickups are “supposed to be” tools. There are luxury versions of pretty much every car type (including SUVs, which were also mean to be tools — off-roadesr), so slathering leather and screens inside a pickup cab isn’t that big of a deal. (And in fact, adds pedestrian protection via cameras and pedestrian protection).
Also: Please accept my apologies for my Sunday “David’s Takes” Op-Ed being a bit shorter and later than it has been in the past. I’m currently in a lounge in Las Vegas, celebrating my youngest brother’s 30th birthday:
I’m walking around with a backpack, blogging in casinos and lounges. Some say I look like a nerd; that’s fine (and true), because you all deserve blogs. -DT]
I have no issues with trucks having luxury with them: I think the bland “luxury” trucks are incredibly stupid, however. Black/Grey interior, black leather seats, etc. No color, just a name and some options.
Now, the ol’ Laramie, and now Limited, Longhorns were luxury trucks done right. Hell, the Tungsten is right up there too.
Most people’s opinions are asinine anyways. Ever hear people complaining about a cheap cars interior looking… cheap?
There is a lot of farm people in Mexico where I am from, they drive their car under 100F, they go with the fanciest trim always. Why? If they are going to be working all day under harsh conditions visiting their crops, going in and out of the car, driving in harsh conditions, they want to be as comfy as hell.
They pay cash and will replace it in a few years. I know someone that got a Tundra and he was surprised that couldn’t get destroyed like his previous F150 lol he switched to Toyota permanently.
There’s a lot of anger here about this topic. A surprising amount. Generally speaking, I don’t feel any of us are entitled to yuck some else’s yum.
Someone saying they hate trucks and hate the people who drive them has just as bad an attitude as that Ram Cummins driver rolling coal all over town. You both are assholes.
I live in Texas. I’m about as liberal as they come. However, for rhetorical purposes I describe myself as one part bleeding heard liberal and one part libertarian.
I can affect change in limited ways. I can make decisions about how I move through the world. And I can advocate for change by voting, supporting causes, protesting, calling elected officials, etc.
I can’t dictate how other people choose to move through the world.
Similarly, businesses’ intended purpose is to make money. So yes, truck manufacturers will sell whatever models they can make the most profit on, so long as people buy them. That won’t change.
However, we could advocate for size limits on full size trucks. Take my FJ75 pickup, for example. It is sized like a Tacoma and originally came with a 3/4-ton suspension as a commercial vehicle. While a long bed Ram 2500 HD MacGyver *can* haul more volume, they rarely do. Even contractors. Volume tends to not be the problem most of the time.
Tundras don’t need to have body work that is the size of a 1999 F-550.
But! People buy them, so manufacturers sell them. Manufacturers can offer up whatever they want for sale, but the buyer almost always leads the products.
More importantly, hate is a terrible thing to cling to. Stop hating. I highly suggest seeing a therapist regularly. Even just once a year is better than nothing (I go monthly). When you hate others who hate others, you’re feeding into a vicious cycle of tyranny, conflict, and civil destruction.
Rational take on the subject.
I hate people with rational takes on subjects! 🙂
Good… Good… Let the hate flow through you!
Your take is fair and rational. It’s nice reading a fully developed take that sees the sides but contains solid logic. And ability to have a conversation even if differences exist between folks – having decent decorum is key to having a real conversation. Solid take!
I’ll add this quote to my resume.
My issue isn’t trucks as personal commuter vehicles. I owned a 1995 Chevy C1500 Silverado extended cab short bed for 11 years. I did normal homeowner truck things like hardware store runs but it was mostly my daily driver. I love trucks. But what is being marketed to truck buyers and sold to them at insane prices has me shaking my head. They are too tall, wide, and long with little appreciable gain in practical capability. Yep, they can tow more than my old truck. But not that many people do and we all know it. Out of curiosity I built an F-150 Lariat and left so many options on the table. $78k dollars! When this generation is in debt up to their eyeballs look in your driveway for the reason.
I agree with the general consensus here (too big, enable assholery, etc.) but Bill on Curious Cars had a good take on this a while back. He said that the modern pickup is roughly analagous to the large land yacht sedans of yesteryear. At the core, it’s a big, ostentatious, luxury laden, V-8 powered (mostly) 4-door vehicle that has become the symbol of “making it” in the same way that a Delta 88, Bonneville, or LTD Brougham did when dinosaurs roamed the earth.
That may be true. I would love to see an economic breakdown of the cost of those vehicles relative to the salaries and general cost of living during that time compared to today.
This tracks around my parts. Husband drives the most loaded truck they can afford. Wife drives a Suburban, Tahoe, Escalade. It’s all fine, they are nice cars. It’s really a projection of wealth. You should see them lined up at the soccer games. Really nice vehicles, like at a car show or something.
I agree with David. Luxury trucks aren’t for me but I’m not gonna hate on them. If I only owned 1 vehicle, it probably would be a crew cab truck like all the other suburban Dads, and probably pretty fancy.
Instead I’ve got the old beater 3/4 ton truck for hauling. Sometimes a month goes by where I don’t use it. Cushy medium sized sedan for the daily driver. Several project cars. A vehicle for every occasion, as I like to say. I’m lucky to have the space to park or hide them all.
It has its drawbacks. I’ve done 2 rear brake jobs so far this month. Something always needs fixing but it’s never an emergency. There’s always something else to drive…
Drive whatever you want as long as you pay an extra $500 in annual registration fees per inch of hood height above the average height of a kindergartener. It’s unacceptable how deadly “normal” vehicles have gotten.
Hood height is irrelevant when the average drives is glued to their phone and not doing anything but holding a steering wheel. But yeah tax and penalize people who drive vehicles you dont like or see a use case for.
This is just false. Hood height is strongly negatively correlated with survival rates.
Distracted driving is a larger factor in pedestrian safety than the shape of vehicles. If the average driver was focused on the task at hand less people would get hit.
I’d like to see everybody who hits a pedestrian see much more severe consequences than they do now. But the vehicle shape is also a hugely important issue. Do you have a source on the claim that distracted driving is a larger factor in safety than hood height?
Reading the comments here. I think i’m pretty normal, but to most here I must be an outlier. I have a truck. It’s a nice one. A bit beat up from doing weekend truck things but I also use it as a daily driver for a commute that’s over an hour. I want some form of luxury during said commute, running errands, etc. I’m not going to buy two vehicles, spend double the money and contribute twice to the environmental impacts of the manufacturing, when one vehicle can do it all.
The environmental impact of manufacturing is nothing compared to the environmental impact of fuel usage – especially with your immense commute. Do a little spreadsheet work and check your breakeven point on CO2 from doing that commute with a cheap EV or even an efficient hybrid sedan.
Ah yes. If only there was an abundance of extra cash lying around to purchase an EV.
If the rationale is “I can only afford one vehicle” then just say that. You’re having an increased environmental impact, though, not a lower one.
Hard disagree. A truck, as you said, is a tool, and the mixture of business in the front (cab), workman in the back (bed) are at odds with each other. We used to analogize the hard working man by the dirt under their fingernails, which is incongruous a luxury, leather, suit-and-tie interior.
Capable luxury SUVs like the G Wagon, on the other hand, make sense, because rich people do things that aren’t always accessible on a road, like ski resorts or living on private islands, and they need to get their kids, dogs, and luggage there safely and dry, even in monsoon season.
Or tow their Airstream… which a pickup truck is the better tool for.
Pickup trucks themselves are indeed not the issue. They are a symptom of an issue, of course, but if somehow I became queen and banned pickup trucks over a certain GVWR pretty much nothing would change. They’re one of the many signs that our culture is obsessed with material wealth to the detriment of our own wellbeing and the wellbeing of nature.
By no means am I saying that we all must live in huts and sleep next to our goats on a straw mattress, but a little more modesty would go a long ways towards making our country a better place to live. Or maybe everyone else loves the sight of a giant patch of faded asphalt around an eyesore Walmart and I am just weird in that way too.
They also might become less of an issue if the regulatory loopholes around light trucks are closed and US road design actually adopts some basic traffic calming measures. There’s nothing stopping anyone from buying the biggest vehicle they can get because you can fit just about anything down an average American road at well above the posted speed limit. If it became significantly harder to fit an F-150 into a city center then the pickup buyer might be more interested in something like a Tacoma or a Maverick, and thus manufacturers might build more things in those categories.
Yes, rural folks do often need large utility vehicles for one legitimate reason or another, which is why I am against the idea of a “truck ban” or anything else of that nature. I live in Kansas, I am not blind to all of the horse trailers.
But is it really?
They take up more space than necessary.
They use up more resources for their construction and operation than necessary.
They intimidate drivers of smaller vehicles.
They’re slower around corners and on cloverleafs because they feel like they’re about to tip over.
They tend to run over small children and animals and sometimes grown people.
Their drivers tend to be more anti-social and aggressive towards others.
Their cost puts their owners into more debt and ownership costs than necessary.
They shovel far more money from the middle class upwards to the investor class more efficiently than necessary.
Even their low-trimline versions are lousy as work trucks because their beds are so high that you can’t load the bed without using steps or a forklift – and you definitely can’t load anything over the side the way we used to with their smaller forebears.
We don’t have an aversion to single-cab work pickups because they’re clearly for work – they’re not being used as an outward display of gender-affirmation and aggression, and the resources being used are for productive purposes – such as towing a bulldozer or carrying a load of bricks. But when the guy in my apartment building uses his lifted 4×4 extended luxury crew-cab for his roofing business – that’s just ridiculous.
This is the biggest problem I have with current full-size pickups. The first pickup I remember having access to was a 1980 Chevy Stepside, and it felt tall, but you could put things in over the side without much issue, despite the reach over the fenders (if they weren’t super bulky and heavy, of course), and putting heavy and bulky things into the back was no problem.
My 2002 Silverado is still okay for this, but a lot of the pickups I see around here are certainly not. Some of that is aftermarket lifts, but even stock pickups generally have higher beds than I would like. And the lifted pickups also require hitch extensions for towing, which I find less than ideal.
I know a couple that is struggling to find a used horse trailer because their newer truck is so tall that only the new really expensive gooseneck trailers will fit the older gooseneck horse trailers in their price range and will not fit over the tall bed sides.
Ouch. I’d hate to run into that issue. I wonder if it’s going to start to become difficult to hitch new trailers to older pickups as trailer builders adapt.
Not only this, but older pumper pull horse trailers have the same issue. The hitch mount on the truck is so high you need a drop down adaptor for the trailer to ride level.
We’ve got an 30 year old 2 horse straight load, and the hitch needs an 8″ drop to fit on a current F250 SD.
Rip the sidewall bed off – install a flat-bed and mount a hitch to the frame on the bed.
Or lower the truck suspension.
I think they like their truck box and will just keep saving up money to buy a newer horse trailer.
The issue with these trucks is less the truck and more the typical kinds of people who drive them. If you see one of those jacked up F-250 super duties then chances are ripe that its being driven by a stereotypical conservative white male who voted for and will vote for Trump, has a gun obsession, and drives said truck because its Big-n-scary looking and is meant as a means to “impress” all of the other bro-dozer driving dudes just like him on the freeway.
such an original comment on a truck post…
Well…. its more or less reality. Every single time I go home to visit my family in rural TN what I described above is what is observed. And yeah, maybe the comment wasn’t super original but neither are the scads of people driving these trucks. They live mundane, non-interesting, bland lives in the middle of bland, rural and middle American suburbia. And what these guys do to their trucks ranging from jacking them up, adding thin blue line and punisher stickers, yadda yadda yadda are just as equally predictable.
Counterpoint: The rapid expansion of the citizenry using rapidly expanding in size trucks is driving suburbia into insolvency. I get that people want a big comfortable truck to go buy their game box from the Target or whatever. But if we’re all going trucking it such a massive waste of space and money. For example you can fit roughly 1.75 MK4 Jettas in the space of one Ram Tungsten edition. A Ram weights about twice a Jetta. So for us to all go trucking, for no efficiency gain whatsoever, we increase the size and weight of traffic by let’s say 40%. To continue at our current traffic speeds, we would then need to increase available volume on our roads. Then increase our parking lots. Then we are going to have to pay to maintain all that pavement.
Here’s the thing, suburbs are hemorrhaging money with our current needs. Urbanized centers are all ready subsidizing the infrastructure demands of suburbia. Which is largely why suburbs having been pushing increasing urbanization, as without a substantial revenue increase it’s the only path to finical viability. Example being the GTA suburbs.
In summary, consumer trucks are bunch of freeloaders and we should stop promoting the usage of things like lux trucks for mundane usage.
Fix CAFE, lower the gross weight allowed under a standard car license (why is it more difficult to get a license for a ~500lb motorcycle than a ~5000lb truck?), get the insurance industry to start chasing the cost of externalities, whatever. The suburban luxury truck is a sign of several regulatory failures that require fixing.
This. Truck buyers need to pay for their higher externalities/negative impacts to our world. Taxes, fees, whatever. It’s more dangerous and more environmentally problematic to be driving a ginormous truck versus the vehicle actually needed to do a job. If you want a truck, go for it, but kick a few bucks to society in the process to pay for the extra space you take up, increased road maintenance, and extra people you’re killing.
They’re not hated because they are a threat to cheap trucks. They’re hated because they are TRUCKS. They take up too much space, they’re incredibly dangerous to pedestrians and occupants of normal vehicles in an accident, and make accidents more likely by limiting everyone’s visibility.
They are stupid machines owned and operated by a**holes.
A luxury pickup is the ultimate expression of a mullet in vehicle form. Maybe MacGyver should be the highest trim level instead? It can successfully get you out of any situation.
Need to drive a high profile client? Done. Brown ostrich leather seats and crystal door handles will impress the best.
Need to deliver a 4,000 lb pallet of bricks to Kentucky for whatever reason? Done. Stick it in the bed.
Meeting some friends in Moab? Done. That specialized hydraulic MacGyver strut system, stock 38” tires, and TNT(c) locking rear differential will take you almost anywhere.
No, it’s not time, there will never be a time to stop hating these bloviated wastes of resources and their douchebag bro-truck owners.
You are wrong. It is right to hate them.
There’s no reason that these should be the default suburban dad car, traded in after two years with a virgin trailer hitch and scratch-free cargo bed.
This is correct. This is a bad take.
Went to the auto show yesterday and just wow. A Chevy pickemup was 72k. It was well appointed and had the diesel, but that’s just crazy. When these things cater to the fragile suburban dad market, the price goes up as high as will be tolerated by the segment. What this does is creates a massive gap for tradespeople–you know the people who are supposed to drive them because they’re working vehicles. Nobody believes you actually do anything in your absurd truck that’s super clean and has a cover over the bed. You’re not going off road in the suburbs either.
I really do not agree with the notion that people should be wearing carrhart coats and timberland workboots around as fashion choices. All it does is illustrate to me how many men want to cosplay as some type of manly man that they will never be. It’s so depressing that this is such a thing in the US where you have so many insecure men and these companies are more than happy to take every last penny from them.
If you work at an office, that’s totally fine, you don’t have to pretend to be something you’re not by cosplaying a tradesperson, buying a dumb pickup, wearing what you think a contractor wears and all that nonsense. Reality is that most contractors and other working people can’t afford this crap anyway and will drive a cheap econonbox to work or use the company van. They’ll wear hoodies they buy at a truck stop or grocery store because their relative who works there gets a discount. They buy their work gear at walmart ffs.
If you really want to pretend to be a working man, then get a tired corolla, some cheap work boots from walmart and a no-name black hoodie from wherever it is cheapest. Would love to see a little more honesty in your costuming.
I’m convinced most of the people posting about fantasies, small genitalia, cosplaying, etc are themselves suffering these maladies and projecting their own insecurities on to truck owners that for the most part are ignorant of the jealousy and hatred.
Most people who drive trucks do so because they like them. That’s certainly the case for me. It need not be Freudian. I own a truck because I like how it drives, because it can handle the work I need it to do, and because its comfortable and luxurious inside.
I got the impression that you were not really in a dense urban area. I have no problems with pickups (of any trim quality) in ‘pickup country.’
I have a problem with the guy who drives the thing to Home Depot to talk to someone about getting a home repair done because he doesn’t even know a tradesman.
If you’re outside of a densely populated / congested area, your pickup’s not really endangering anyone.
I live in a suburb/exurb, as I expect many pickup owners do.
I don’t understand why anyone would put up with driving a large pickup in a dense urban core, but if they want to, I have enough things to worry about of my own before I judge someone else for their vehicular choices.
In New England, all the infrastructure is basically 200+ years old. Even if a suburb wasn’t built out completely at that point, the main roads were.
My town would have been a long way from the ‘city’ when it was founded in ~1640, but it’s using mostly the same roads to link it to the city now that it’s a suburb. Most of my neighbors with the big luxury trucks are using them to commute from pre-revolutionary cow paths directly into one of the one of the most congested cities in the US.
I’m not going to call a pickup compensation for genitalia, but I do think that there is a bit of marketing effect at play. I live in a city full of pickups, and the lift kits and unused accessories on some of these pickups (and on Jeeps and other vehicles sold by marketing their capabilities) suggest people buy them because they’d like to be the person who uses those capabilities, not because they use them. Maybe not to be macho or whatever, but for the same reason people buy Subaru Wilderness models they don’t ever take off-road.
Interestingly, the luxury pickup seems the least affected by this. That might be a result of lift kits messing with the comfort suspension or just a desire to protect the expensive pickup, but the lower trims and the off-road pickups are the ones I see getting set up in ways that the owners want to use, but don’t necessarily actually use.
I really think it’s the aspirational pickup people hate on more than the luxury pickup. But the luxury pickup is the easy target.
Yeah if you buy a lift and never go off road, I may find you silly or someone who wastes money, but ultimately no different than someone who makes any kind of aesthetic modifications to their vehicle. The level of vitriol and hatred around here for choices others make with their vehicles is really astounding and I think unbecoming of an enthusiast site.
And as you say, DT’s post was about stock trucks, not modified ones, making the sentiment even more ridiculous.
I do think that the lift is a little different than other aesthetic modifications, since it has the potential to make the vehicle more dangerous (worse visibility, potentially worse stability, worse outcomes for people if they are struck), but all the accessories and such are absolutely just the same to me as any other aesthetic modifications. If someone wants to install a recovery jack that will forever stay pristine, that’s their thing.
The one accessory exception: the hitch extension on a pickup that always backs it up over the sidewalk. I don’t care if you don’t use your tow hitch, but I do care if you cause problems for others. See a lot of that here, and it eats up a lot of sidewalk. It’s especially frustrating in handicap parking, since it could interfere with mobility aids.
Yeah this is asshole behavior. It takes less than a minute to remove it.
Yep. I’m always tempted to remove them for people and throw them into the bed. But this is also gun country and I do not want to get shot for messing with someone’s vehicle.
See that’s just the thing. The “I’ll do what I want” attitude that is so very common among people who drive pickups (or any other absurd vehicle) with no reason to do so.
There are many things you could do to indulge yourself, but you typically don’t. You could cut the line at the store, you could steal something out of your neighbors yard when you know they’re not home, you could swear at strangers if they displease you–however most people don’t do this because there would typically be real and immediate consequences for those choices. When it comes to things like waste, indulgence, unnecessary consumption, the consequences are paid by others and typically later on.
It demonstrates are strong sense of entitlement and a lack of temporal thought about the overall consequences of choices and what those mean to people who are not the person who made the choice (even though it will effect them eventually).
I’m not going to change any minds here, but I won’t be told that there are valid reasons to drive an empty pickup around just because someone wants to. People will always do stupid things, this is just one of many disappointments that the world has to offer.
Just remember, unlike what Dodge says, a pickup IS a tool. If the pickup isn’t a tool, then the driver is.
I hope you save the same level of shrill outrage and performative piety for everyone who buys something above and beyond the barest requirements for survival then. There’s no reason truck owners should be the only ones to experience such an uplifting and positive way to go through life.
If truck owners are fantasizing, you need to join the club, because your “Real blue collar people who only drive Corollas and dress themselves in discount hoodies from the truck stop” fan fiction is telling in its own way.
People just aren’t that black and white. Taste, purchasing decisions, and how people choose to portray themselves are much more nuanced in the real world. Not everyone is trying to front, it’s okay to simply enjoy nice things.
I work in an office and own a Carhartt. I bought it because it’s warm and it looks good. I didn’t realize I was pretending to be a macho tradesperson, I guess I need some sort of business casual peacoat or something to project my appropriate position in the workforce.
They’re a great reminder that many of my fellow citizens need to have their income and wealth taxed more aggressively, give you that.
You wanna be taxed more? Yeesh.
Of all the crazy shit I’ve read on here, you sir, win some sort of award for something.
I consider it a point of pride and civic duty to pay my taxes.
In theory? I’m right beside you, walking arm-in-arm. In practice? Not so much.
The efficiency of tax collected money is the worst return on “investment” in society. All paying more taxes does is increase the blank check bank account of those in government to hire/implement more bloat.
I’ve worked government jobs. More money in the coffers solves no problems, as the system is set up today. It is wasted capital that can be used in a much wiser way by the individual.
No thanks to having my dollar watered down to a nickel by the time it gets to any actual “solution”. But, if you want to fund other people’s fantasies of a Utopia that will never come to fruition, you can burden my share. I’ll be volunteering at the aquarium, helping kids learn about the fragility of the ecosystem. Ya know, the kind of thing that actually inspires change in the world. Not just throwing literal change at it blindly, hoping that it somehow lands in the fountain far enough away from the drain.
I have no problem with the “luxury” part of the equation (I prefer KISS, but it’s your money). My problem is with the growing size part of the equation. Needing steps to get in and out, of both the cab and the bed, along with magic tailgates, just to access the bed, as well, is ludicrous.
Besides (over?)compensating, it also appears that this is being driven by the ever-bigger brakes and wheels. Is there some design reason why engine braking is no longer an option/used much? Turbochargers, computers, EPA compliance, and/or the death of manual transmissions? Or, is it just “style” and marketing, as it is with the hood part of the equation?
Arms races in towing and payload require larger brakes and larger radiators (hence bigger grilles and taller hoods).
How come the Challenger/Charger Hellcats have such small grilles and low hoods in comparison? Your Viper should be 8′ tall and the hood should be better ventilated than a box fan in a hurricane if that were really the case.
I have an ’89 F150 and it a couple inches smaller in almost every dimension than my sister’s 2023 Maverick. The size of today’s trucks is not entirely due to massive performance increases, people just want to be BIG.
The Viper has a massive grille and literal holes cut in the hood.
Its cooling needs even at full bore on a race track are also a small fraction of what a truck needs to pull 40,000 lb up Davis Dam in 110 degree heat.
If these big-ass trucks were only used in Arizona during the month of August then I would agree that the hate is unwarranted. Unfortunately they are everywhere, 99.99% of the time not hauling 40k# up a grade. If we’re buying vehicles for that 0.01% edge case, maybe we should all be driving Brinks trucks or semi-trailer tractors or Unimogs.
You (the general “you,” not “you-v10omos specifically”) have the right to buy whatever kind of vehicle you want. But just as the right to swing your fist stops at my face, it should be acknowledged that these large, ungainly vehicles feel a lot like someone spinning around in circles throwing haymakers blindly. Most of the time you’re just punching air, but sometimes your fist connects with a face and you realize that it all could’ve been avoided if you had decided on a different activity instead.
So concludes my long-winded “just because you can doesn’t mean you should”
But this is the same logic you used with the Viper and the racetrack. Surely only a tiny fraction of Viper miles are driven in anger on racetracks, but the entire car is optimized for that purpose and makes serious compromises for it.
I actually agree with most of the commenters here that many truck buyers would be better served with a smaller vehicle. Where the difference lies is that I don’t feel it’s my place to angrily tell them they’re wrong or evil or have a small dick for buying one,
Honestly, if people want to get mad about that, the anger would be best directed toward the manufacturers (and especially their marketing departments) for convincing people that they need/want a larger pickup than they really do. Or for successfully lobbying to have emissions standards modified to accommodate light duty pickups, then focusing all their effort on those vehicles.
I will say that the person buying a pickup because they might do a little home improvement would often be better served by renting one whenever they need one, whereas the person who wants a track car doesn’t have that option.
Personally, I would be better served by a small pickup (I use it for rafting and the like, so I don’t need massive towing), but I could not find one at a reasonable price when I purchased. When the Maverick came out, I almost bought (I actually ordered, but then cancelled and let the dealership sell mine to someone else), but I would a luxury pickup, and it’s not that. I just want to see a competitive market for small pickups of various levels of luxury and capability. I don’t know if there’s enough market for a small luxury pickup, but I’d love to see it.
I’m not a betting man but I’d be willing to wager that on a percentage basis, more Vipers have seen 100+ mph than there are trucks that have seen anything bigger than a grocery bag the bed. Plus the Viper is easier to see out of, easier to see around, easier to park and maneuver, gets a similar fuel economy, and is less likely to turn you into street meat in the event of a driver/pedestrian collision. Let’s get more Vipers on the road and less of these land cruise ships.
Your overall point is good, but I do have to laugh a bit at this. I’ve never owned a vehicle with worse visibility and it’s easier to maneuver a box truck than a Viper into a tight spot.
Bigger brakes only last so long on a long descent (“what goes up, must come down”). Based on years of driving in Colorado, I’d much rather rely on compression (engine) braking than on friction braking. When it comes to cooling, much can be accomplished with wider radiators and additional rows of cooling fins; taller is not the only answer, and many “real” semis are headed in the opposite direction, to improve their aerodynamics.
Here’s what I agree with that I think a lot of us don’t consider, while prices today are high, adjusted for inflation AND additional content, we are probably getting more for our money. I bet if you inflation adjust the MSRP on a Lincoln Blackwood that you are getting WAY MORE for your money on a Ford Platinum Laramie Big Dick or whatever they call it.
Here’s my issue with the weekend warrior lifestyle truck. It has greatly skewed the entire market to people who don’t really use trucks as trucks. I’m a guy with 2500HD regular cab in my fleet, because I’m a contractor. I need one. Now, most trucks don’t even come regular cab. Why would they? Crew cabs cost a lot more. GM doesn’t really want my business. Why would they want to sell me a $35k full size, when they can throw leather and a bunch of speakers in it and sell it for $90 fucking grand? The real truck guys are being left in the cold.
I don’t get this take.
Every fullsize offers a regular cab except Ram and Toyota 1/2 tons. Every HD has them.
If your local dealer doesn’t stock them, find another dealer or order one.
Pretty sure you can still get a Ram 1500 with a regular cab if you go with the Classic?
I know it isn’t the ‘latest and greatest’ but ‘real’ truck guys aren’t supposed to want that anyway…
You could up through 2023, but the option appears to be gone for 2024.
Oh damn you’re right. I wonder if Ram will bother with a 5th gen regular cab at all then.
I’d be quite surprised if they did. Even contractors are finding that more dry/lockable storage or space for multiple guys to ride in one truck is worth paying for over the limitations of regular cabs.
Yeah that tracks. I don’t know anyone who has put serious miles on a regular cab that would spend *new truck money* on another one / one of their own.
Here are the trucks that don’t come single cab,
Nissan Frontier, Toyota Tacoma, Chevy Colorado, GMC Canyon, Ford Ranger, Honda Passport, Hyundai Santa Cruz (Yeah, I know), Ford Maverick, Dodge Ram 1500.
Here’s your single cab options, Silverado, Sierra, Ram 2500, F series.
By most I meant, most, not all. You can’t buy a compact or midsized, at all. You can still get a full size, but the ones you can get are limited to the lowest spec and often can’t be optioned with the better engines.
As of, say, 2010, you could still get almost all of the mid size trucks in a regular cab. All I’m saying is the times are a changing.
You said you drove a 2500, so I assumed midsize and smaller weren’t even on your radar, that’s all.
Agreed that the times are changing.
I have a 2014 Ecodiesel work truck, single cab, long bed. It was as bare bones as I could find (think armstrong windows), and I absolutely love it. It replaced a Yukon XL that had rusted away as the family truck.
As a full size diesel, I’ve gotten 30+ MPG pulling a small utility trailer.
It is big and comfortable; the radio (it has Sirius, and you can plug in an Ipod) sounds fantastic. I think they all came standard with PS, PB, Automatic, A/C and Cruise control.
Honestly, the only things I’d change is that if I was going to buy a new one, I’d get PW and PL, as I can’t reach across to work either of them from the driver’s seat, and I’d want 4wd. We forget how bad 2wd is in the snow, particularly in a PU.
The point is that A/C and Siruis/hook up for your Iphone is just about all you really need…
When I went to buy my 2018 work truck I thought I didn’t want power windows or locks or anything. At that point they wouldn’t even spec them that way. And yes, I wouldn’t want to reach for a crank on the driver side. However, I live in the Northeast and 4WD wasn’t even a question. I’ve had a 2WD truck up here. Never again.
The point is that A/C and Siruis/hook up for your Iphone is just about all YOU really WANT. You don’t need A/C any more than I need ventilated seats. But they make my ass a lot more comfortable in the summer.
These are things we like because they make our driving experiences better. It’s okay to like luxury vehicles with all the bells and whistles.
I’m not sure that line about AC is true anymore. Depending on where OP lives, driving could be a thermal hazard some or all of the year. Toning it down slightly from “death or injury,” arriving at a destination in reasonable condition (not soaked with or smelling of sweat, or needing to change clothes to avoid those) is, in my opinion, a fair ask of a modern vehicle.
Yes people should buy what they want and have as much luxury as they want but the fragile masculinity that has driven giant pickup trucks is not very good for society as a whole. Imagine if we had super luxurious small vehicles that would not drive over as many small children and burn a tanker of gas every day. If you can afford a $90K luxury truck I bet you have a place for the utility trailer you can do truck things with 2 times a year. My cousin has a fancy loaded Ram truck that had never had more than 2 people and a hockey bag in it. He even borrows my utility trailer in the fall for leaves.
This. My buddy told me recently that he intended to replace his Mazda Cx9 with a crew cab F150 because he wants to move his bikes. I said why didn’t you just get a car and a small utility trailer? Why have a truck 100% of the time if you need one 1% of the time? A small utility trailer has a bigger “bed” than a crew cab and more payload and you don’t have to worry about beating it up. And the car and trailer will cost WAY less than the truck. Anyway, he’s definitely not taking my suggestion.
I have kept a cheap utility trailer under my deck for nearly 20 years. I get that some people do not have the space to store a trailer but those are not the people usually buying luxury trucks.
I bet he doesn’t end up using it to move his bikes that often because lifting the bikes into the bed is too much work.
While I would rather have a smaller luxury pickup, I do agree that luxury features make sense. But I don’t believe this is because they are not work vehicles.
The people who suggest an Escalade or whatever miss the reason the luxury pickup works: the luxury stays relatively clean because the dirty cargo stays out. If you’ve ever hauled a lawnmower or a pile of river gear in an SUV/crossover, you know it’s a pain to clean and deodorize.
And I do most of my pickup stuff in the summer, so I definitely wish I had ventilated seats in mine.
I was waiting for this take!
I do not like full size pickups in general, but I totally get the appeal. And honestly, I don’t really care that there are now luxury spec’d trucks out there. Their existence isn’t the issue.
The issue is the prevalence.
There’s a lot of issues with the modern truck, the real estate they take up, the obvious threat to pedestrians/cyclists, the conspicuous consumption etc. But it wouldn’t be so bad if every car hadn’t turned into a truck over the past 15 years. Hell, if all of these people genuinely, genuinely loved their trucks? Sure! If driving around a big fat truck is your jam, and you have passion for it that sort of justifies the societal toll and inconvenience to others (and you don’t bring a “fuck you I got mine” attitude to the table), have at it! I know a few people like this, and I do not beat them up for owning a truck. Trucks can be fine!
But then I know a whole lot of people, who own them only because they’re “supposed” to. The luxury part makes the entire horse-sized pill of owning a pickup easier to swallow. And that is why we have too many trucks on the road.