We’ve been doing Wrenching Wednesday for a while now, and I’ve only just realized we haven’t dedicated an entire installment to tires. Sure, you might only purchase a set every few years, but they’re some of the most critical parts on a car, right up there with the nut behind the wheel.
While David Tracy is perfectly fine with junkyard tires, I’m more willing to splash the cash, as tires really are the only things keeping a car connected to the road. [Ed Note: I did just buy my girlfriend a brand new set of Michelin CrossClimate 2s for her Lexus. -DT]. Unfortunately, this means I can be a bit obsessive, and an impending need to make a tire choice for my Porsche Boxster has me going around in circles.
My Boxster sports a rather intense stagger of 205/50R17 up front and 255/40R17 out back, which means that options are a bit limited. The factory-fit Bridgestone Potenzas I love on these cars are discontinued, and I’m rather unimpressed by the Pirelli P Zero Rosso Asimmetrico that’s currently approved by Porsche. So what else is out there?
An obvious choice is the Porsche-approved Michelin Pilot Sport PS2, but I’m not entirely sure that’s the best option for my application. Toronto roads are shit, to the point where cruising Detroit’s arterial roads feels like driving on a billiard table. As for Angelenos, they have no idea how good they have it. Basically, all-season tires offer a bit more squish and a bit more quiet, and the current crop of ultra high performance all-season tires is quite good. Then again, you do often give up a few feet of stopping distance, and a few feet can make a huge difference.
So, what’s out there for reasonably comfy summer tires in 986 Boxster staggered 17-inch fitment? Well, there’s the Continental ExtremeContact Sport 02 and the Vredestein Sprint +. Now, the Vredesteins look period correct, and Vredestein did supply us with some awesome winter tires for our Ski-Klasse, but the Sprint + isn’t officially sold in Canada, so getting a set might be a bit involved. In contrast, it’s much easier for me to get my hands on a set of the Continentals, even if they are more expensive.
Granted, I’m not always a tire snob. I have 300-treadwear off-brand tires on my 325i that will weather out well before they run low on tread, and they still throw pebbles, even if cornering limits aren’t quite as high as they used to be. Likewise, I had the Firestone Firehawk Indy 500s on my G35 when they were fairly fresh on the market, and found them to be quite fun. Fast, light steering, solid dry grip for the category, slightly edgy (read: fun) in the wet.
So, let’s talk about your tire choices. What are you running on your cars? Are you happy with them? What do you look for in a tire? Let’s get nerdy about rubber, because tires matter.
(Photo credits: Thomas Hundal, Tire Rack, Continental)
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Running all Michelin on my WRX: Pilot Sport 4S in the summer and X-Ice Snow in the winter. The Pilot Sports are excellent, but the full snow tires have kind of sucked this winter; it’s been so warm they’re almost always above their recommended operating temps, which makes the handling unpleasantly soft and light on grip. Probably going to look into performance all-seasons to replace them, seeing as things are unlikely to get any colder in the coming years.
When I was shopping for tires for my ’91 F350 longbed dually, I had very limited choices. Essentially only trailers tires are narrow enough for use on a dually.
It was with my 2003 Mini Cooper I really started being able to notice how tires impacted the experience. I’m about ready to swap my 2005 GTO back to the 17″ stock wheels which need new tires. Looking at the Michelin Pilot Sport 4s and 5 since Costco has them in the right size.
My Polestar 2 was the first car I bought with summer tires, staggered wheels and because its electric, they are “POL” certified with the foam and whatever electric cars “need”. Those Continental are ok, good traction in dry conditions but they have to replaced in the next month or so after 16k miles, this is no bueno for me.
I was about to buy a set of Sailun EV Range tires that I have on my Chevy Volt, they are amazing, quiet, good traction, no complains at all and they are half the price of the Continental but this weekend someone posted on the Polestar group that they had a set of Michelin OEM POL certified with 2 months of use or so, $100 for the whole set. I drove 4 hours each way to get the tires, I only spent like 20 min in Chicago. Yes I am a cheap bastard when it comes to tires.
The thing with tires for electric cars, you spend way more if you want to keep the range and noise down, here is where Sailun tires for EVs are in the budget of a regular tire but with those “special” characteristics.
I was converted to spend more on tires after replacing the original Goodyears with Michelins on a Highlander. The handling improved immensely. I was shocked. Admittedly the OEMs could have been a cheapo version.
Okay, this is very much in opposition to what many others are saying, and this shows that I’m kinda redneck:
I totally cheap out on tires. People say all kinds of things about how it’s worth it to spend the money on tires, but that’s just not my experience. At all.
I recently went from some super cheap Solarus Starfire tires on my f150 to some nice Falken all terrains. They ride, handle, and sound exactly the same. Traction is maybe marginally worse under hard braking on wet or dry pavement. Traction doesn’t really seem better in mud and snow, which is disappointing.
I’ve had similar experiences on other cars, like going from Linglongs to I don’t remember which name brand tires on a Cavalier.
I try to buy only used tires, which has been going great for me so far. And in my experience, having matching tires doesn’t really matter as long as they’re all the same size and roughly the same style(no M/T on the same axle as a summer tire). Although even mismatched tire sizes, even on the same axle, has surprisingly little effect on how a car drives.
The fact is, most drivers, even in spirited driving, never get particularly close to the traction limit of even really crappy tires on the street.
Also, a new set of tires frequently exceeds the value of my cars. That’s a lot of why I cheap out on tires.
Whoa. I thought I was cheap with tires, but I’m not as cheap as you and David Tracy. I draw the line at used tires. But just on this side of that line with one exception.
In most large-ish cities, there’s a section of town where one can buy tire brands not featured on Tire Rack. I choose no-names for most of my needs for the reasons you mentioned — the performance and wear difference between the no names and the big names is not noticeable in 99.9% of summer driving conditions. The cost is the biggest delta.
The exception is snow tires — I buy known brands such as the Michelin X-Ice Snow because when it snows where we live, it really f’n snows and we need every bit of grip we can buy.
All but my DD has two sets of rims and tires. The summer sets are no names. The winter sets are shod with known brands.
Yeah, I don’t buy snow tires either. All seasons work great for the probably 15-20 days a winter we have actual snow on the ground. And it’s funny because Californians move to Idaho here and put studded tires on a Subaru to be safe in the snow.
The wear difference is hopefully major on my tires- I got about 10k miles out of those cheap cheesy tires, and wearing very evenly too. These Falkens better wear longer. But the performance is nearly identical, which is unexpected for a very highway tread vs a relatively knobby all terrain.
So you drive an F150 on cheap tires and now you know that:
“most drivers, even in spirited driving, never get particularly close to the traction limit of even really crappy tires on the street.”
Do tell. I guess driving an F150 somehow makes you an expert on spirited driving. Tell me, when was the last time you drove your F150 at 9/10ths or took it around an autocross?
I have on a couple occasions driven my f150 near the limit of motive traction, because it’s a RWD pickup with very little weight on the driven wheels, and if I don’t have my camper shell or anything in the bed it’s traction limited up to at least 20mph.
Braking traction I have maxed out a couple times, dragging the rear tires but never locking up the fronts(again, pickup with light rear). Cornering limit I have maxed out only once, when I was specifically trying to. Did you know that a 1995 f150 neither oversteers nor understeers at the limit? It lifts the inside rear tire, which is hilarious. So I literally couldn’t increase my maximum cornering with better tires.
My Honda(I don’t own only the f150) I have never come even close to the traction limit in corners, despite trying, and barely spun the tires during an actual clutch dump launch.
So yes, that’s why I think that, at least on dry pavement, a large majority of drivers will never come close to the ultimate traction limit of their car.
Not sure what autocross has to do with street driving. Obviously you want good performance tires to be competitive in any kind of racing.
Fair enough.
Like your F150, a 2004 Toyota Camry with the front sway bar removed and 245 width summer tires all around will also lift the inside rear tire in a really hard turn. Go figure. Hilarious fun on an autocross course.
By the way, if you aren’t getting close to the limit of cornering traction of your Honda on crappy tires, you’re either doing it wrong or not trying hard enough lol. I spun my 2001 Honda S2000 into a ditch on accident once.
The f150 cornering was actually even more hilarious. I was trying to do redneck skidpad testing in the church parking lot, and I got up to about 30mph(!) in 3rd at FULL LOCK steering when it gently lifted up the inside rear and, because open diff, I could not go any faster.
The Honda doesn’t have crappy tires actually, it has some somewhat performance all seasons from the last owner. Although in my mom’s identical Honda with not crappy but definitely not performance Toyo all seasons, I have also not been able to find the traction limit, at least not safely on a public road.
I do suspect an s2000 is significantly easier to spin out than an Accord though.
I have Continental ECS02s on my Volvo 940 Turbo in the summer, and Hakkapeliitas in the winter. The Contis are an awesome summer/fun street driving/occasional trackday tire. They’re super responsive and great in the wet. They felt alright on track and lasted pretty well, much better than the Firestone Indy 500s I had before.
The Nokians are pretty old at this point (winter #5) and are gonna be due for replacement. It will mostly just roast these and attract a bunch of attention.
Tires are usually the first thing I change on any car I buy, used or new. It’s the quickest way to increase traction, and as the article states, can be the difference between a close call and a car accident in panic stops.
Personally, I run Continental DWS all-seasons on my Camry Hybrid. The generic Hancooks that it came with were noisy, wore quickly, and weren’t good at anything in particular. The DWS’ on the other hand are great in the wet, dry, and I’ve even used them in the snow with decent results. 30,000 miles on them so far, and the fronts are barely half worn.
I don’t mind paying money on tires and I cringe when I see people with worn, dry-rotted, or mismatched tires. Honestly, a car crash is way more expensive than a good set of tires; I don’t know why more people don’t give their tire choice more thought.
Second vote for the DWS’s – I’ve run them on the Saab 9-3 I used to own, and they worked great in the dry, wet, and even on the track for HPDEs. Sure, the limits were lower there than dedicated high performance summer tires, but not by much! They did wear a little unevenly with the track days, but since they weren’t directional they could be rotated to the other side of the car easily.
Glad to see all the recommendations. The set of Nokian 4-season tires on the Subaru are wearing out sooner than expected, and they don’t make them anymore. Guess we’ll be looking for a set of Michelin CrossClimate 2s this fall.
Something holed the gas tank on my pickup last week, finally got some dry weather today so I could patch it up with some epoxy putty. Hoping it holds fuel so I can make it to the Sprints gig tomorrow night.
That pickup’s tires are hard as rocks and they’ll probably dry rot long before the tread wears out. Oh well, not like I live at the wrong end of a long windy narrow road in a very wet climate. /s
I run the last gen Conti Extreme Contact Sports on my 944 Turbo and like them. They’re noisy in the rain, but the car isn’t exactly quiet anyway.
I run Vredestein All Seasons on everything else. They make a darn good tire, too.
I should add that we do run Nokian Hakka 8s on the minivan in the winter, though we probably didn’t really need to this year in the Chicago burbs.
My Mercedes-Benz CLK350 always wore Continentals or Pirellis from the dealership.
But after moving to Virginia, where the wet is weeks long, those all-seasons (which are really more summer tires than anything) weren’t cutting it.
In came a set of Vredestein Hypertracs via TireRack mobile installation.
Great grip in the wet and in the dry – even on our tight cloverleafs at greater than posted speeds.
It’s nearly time to replace the rears as the set is two years old – – I could feel a little wiggle in the back on the freeway today – and the rears on my car typically last 2 years while the fronts last 3.
Will be ordering two rears soon.
https://www.vredestein.com/car-suv-tires/products/1787-HYPERTRAC.all/
I reeeeeeally like the Bridgstone RE-71Rs on the Lancer, but mine are kinda old and in desperate need of either rotation or replacement (it’s been a while). You know I’ve had a bad time by the fact that I haven’t killed these yet. 🙁 After the mold schmutz wore off and they were still pretty new, though, holy crap. Nice in the wet, might even stick to the wall (…well, in road car tire terms, anyway) in the dry. I’ve had various versions of the the Dunlop Star Specs on the 944 for the past decade or so, and might try the Bridgestones on it next round. It usually races in Houston. Moist weather capability is a plus.
The VW 411 needs tires again, grumble. It’s an annoying case of “whatever it can get,” I think. I really wish there were more vintage VW options out there that didn’t cost an arm, a leg, a spleen and a gallbladder. I don’t know why I’ll shell out on the Lancer’s big dumb 18s, but recoil at the thought of spending money on the VW’s tires. I know it’s the Beetle Brougham, but it’s a People’s Car! Sell me VW tires priced for the masses!
(Also Texas, also work from home, can run silly soft summers year-round because I don’t trust other Texans on the roads if it ices over.)
(On second thought, I should see how the Bridgestones fare when run for longer distances. I’m rusty as hell at track driving. I think this means “punish the Lancer for a couple hours of laps.” Yes, yes. That’s exactly what that means.)
It was kind of funny when I got new highway tires out on my ‘94 F150, I told the tire shop to save the old Goodyear wrangler ATs as they were still good (I just hated the noise and way they rode). I get there and they of course did NOT put the old tires in the bed as instructed and had instead loaded them on the tire shredder truck. Luckily the guy was still there, so they were able to fish them out. The guy at the counter told me they weren’t worth anything and acted like I was foolish for trying to sell them but I knew better. Not only did I avoid the $20 disposal fee, but got $180 for them on marketplace. Not bad for very little effort! Love the new Firestones – made the truck much more civilized!
I JUST bought new tires for 3 of my cars. The stand-outs are the Pirelli Scorpions I put on our Highlander. We’re still just a few months in, but very impressed! I’d highly recommend.
Michelin Pilot Sport 5 on the Miata (Texas, so I can run summers year round). They replaced a set of Pilot Sport AS4 that replaced the OEM Bridgestone Potenza’s that apparently everyone hates.
Not even sure what’s on the CX5, we’ve only had it a year, so still the OEM, but my wife’s previous car (a Mazda3) I put a set of Pilot Sport AS4 on as well.
My question is what else do Autopians do when the tires are off?
I take pictures of the suspension components mainly for cracks in the rubber components eg the boots.
Brake pads and wear.
Clean off and film coat the mounting surface.
Check / bleed brakes when necessary.
Good rinse if I see any salt .
Usually, it’s because I’ve nuked the brakes again, so “look around and see what else is messed up” is the general rule for me, too. (No salt here, thank goodness.)
I clean the insides of the wheels. They never really get it otherwise.
Shake the wheel hubs in all directions while you’re at it. Sometimes you get to catch a wheel bearing on its way out
Nokian Hakkapeliitta studded tires on all the cars. Never going back to non-studded winter or (shudder) all-seasons for the winter.
I have Hakka 8s for the minivan and they are awesome, though this was a mild winter in Chicago and likely didn’t need them.
Yeah, up here in the middle of the Great White North even a mild winter means most streets are covered with ice and snow from November through April.
Michelin CrossClimate 2 on a 2017 Mazda CX-5 FWD and 2018 Kia Sorento SX AWD. Zero complaints. They are everything they’re advertised to be. Flooding rains, coarse pavement, slick conditions, they just go.
This is a perfectly well-timed post. I picked up an E46 convertible for my wife this weekend. Based on what I can glean from some of the information I got, it was primarily an older person’s car and the condition matches up with this. The downside is the tires are 10/11 years old, so that is first priority.
I’m in the mid-atlantic, and she is a little nervous about RWD in the snow, so I’m considering all-seasons with 3PMSF – probably the Vredestein Quatrac (even though I think she’ll be fine), but am wondering if requiring that rating is overkill and I should broaden my search.
Any advice?
I ordered a set of Vredestein Quatrac on Alutec wheels (Poland) for my 2016 Honda Fit. I was happy with the all-season performance including moderate snowfall depths. Of course the Fit is FWD, so there’s an advantage.
I was slightly dissatisfied with treadwear, but I have to qualify this by saying that I used the Fit , fully loaded + roof rack load, to move from Rhode Island to New Hampshire. I probably made about 7 or 8 340-mile round trips. I don’t know if this would have made that much of a difference but the weight was enough to have the rear squat a bit. Maybe also a testimony to load rating of the Vreds.
To summarize, I’d buy them again. Good luck with your selection.
Thanks – I appreciate the insight!
You can try Michelin All Season tires like Cross Climate.
I find for day to day use, the performance variations of tires of the same price range from different manufacturers are pretty minimal. Big brands offer rebates / discount more often than smaller brands.
The manufacturers these days improve / change their compound quite often, so as long competition catches up pretty quick.
Good to know – thanks
Located in the Chicago burbs and I have a set of Quatrac Pros on a 2009 CRV and they’re competent winter tires with decent manners in the summer. They are getting a bit noisy after a few years but still better than the OEM all seasons.
It’s FWD, but I’ve been really impressed by the Michelin Crossclimate2s on a Volt in winter. From what I can tell they’re still a notch short of good winter tires but better than crappy ones.
Good to know. I actually ended up going with the Crossclimate 2. Ultimately, the premium over other options was small enough to justify and I feel pretty good about them. We’ll see how they do.
I’ve had a satisfying experience with Michelin Pilot A/S tires, which I have on two of my cars.
Pirelli all seasons on my cars. Whatever the latest version of the Scorpion AS on our RAV4 and ditto for the P7’s on my Cruze. Great 3 season tires. They do everything pretty well.
Last year I got a set of Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs for the old Ranger, and one calendar year and 3k miles later I’m happy with them. Good grip on ice and snow, not terribly loud at highway speed, and good off road.
I like a good long wearing tire. I despise using cheap because by the time you go through 4 sets you end up throwing away 1 set because add up what is left on each set each time you change. Also I got mad at my retired dad who swore by Michelien 80,000 mile tires when he was driving less than 10,000 miles a year. Dry rot set in before wearing out. I have done the used tires but most cars need matching tires. However I have found a guy who buys used tires from the Dealerships when a customer wants different tires. These are like new.
I’ve had two sets of Michelin Defenders, and a set of Symmetry on my Panthers. I was disappointed in how quickly dry rot appeared on all of them.
Exactly ozone lack of use sun exposure lack of use all aid in ruining tires. I once bought a box truck 2007 in 2017 with only 1,800 miles on it. Everything but the roll up door looked brand frigging new. The tires still had nibs on them but they were dry rot from he’ll. Fortunately I had a decent set on my trade in negotiable the dealer pays for swapping them, used their mechanics and that truck served me well except for the Ford V8 5.2 popcorn spark plugs.
I put Conti extreme contact on my G37 changing from Hankook tires. Made a huge difference in handling and ride noise. Love them
On most of my cars I run modern-production Pirelli Cinturato CA67 “vintage” tires. They’re available in the sizes I need, such as 145R13 and 155R15, and their construction seems to be reasonably close to what the designers of my cars’ suspensions originally had in mind decades ago, as they generally provide a more predictable and confidence-inspiring ride than did the handful of modern, no-name alternatives in these sizes that I had tried before.
For my KV Mini 1 there’s not a lot of choice for a street-legal tire in 4.00-8 and I don’t really want to run wheelbarrow tires on it, so I use a reproduction Cushman scooter tire which fortunately has fairly square shoulders on the tread, making this a good choice for the car’s grindstone-capstan friction drive. The tires are very much understressed in this application compared to what they’d experience on a Cushman so I’m comfortable with them.
For my ’70 International pickup it took a bit of looking to find tubeless bias-ply tires in 7.50-16LT as originally specified as it turns out that more or less the only game in town is Specialty Tires of America so I run their STA Super Traxion tire. They work well both at highway speeds and on gravel and dirt roads so I’m happy. If I wanted to go significantly off-road I suspect I’d run into the truck’s limitations (2WD, open differential) long before I ran into any limitations of the tires, so again, no reason to complain.
Oooooh, those fit Karmann-Ghia wheels, which I think? share a size with my 411. A CONTENDER FOR MY GARBAGE SON.