About 10 years ago, if you were a luxury brand on the rise, the playbook was generally “Try and do what BMW’s doing.” Lexus added a very distinctive (if you want to use that adjective) grille to its cars and added a level of performance we hadn’t seen before. Alfa Romeo had big plans for a full lineup that never materialized. Cadillac took a similar shot in one of its many reinventions and quite a few of those cars remain beloved today.
In my mind, the non-German brand that came closest to matching BMW was probably Jaguar, which by the end of the last decade had a big lineup of sedans, wagons, crossovers, a fairly underappreciated EV and a firecracker of a sports car. Problem was, if everyone’s BMW then no one is BMW, and in the case of most of those brands—Jaguar included—the effort didn’t turn into sales.
We lead off today’s (Tesla-free, just to prove we can!) morning news roundup with Jaguar’s plan for what’s next; what we know of Chevrolet’s plan to un-kill the Bolt; some updates on the Detroit Auto Show; and why the Porsche 911 will be the brand’s gasoline sole-survivor. Let’s go!
More On Those Jaguar Comeback Plans
Frequent morning roundup customers probably know by now that Jaguar is one brand I keep a particular eye on (Mazda is another) as the car industry collectively Figures Out What’s Next. It has different problems than Mazda does, though; despite a fairly generous owner in Tata, corporate cousin Land Rover is the one that pays the bills, it’s struggled with a number of economic and production challenges including Brexit, and that “make lots of gasoline performance crossovers like BMW” plan is as dated as trying to look like a character from Mad Men when you wear a suit.
Or even wearing a suit, period. I don’t even remember the last time I did that. Sometime before the virus hit, I think. Even the Finance Bros here in New York just wear fleece vests and white sneakers now.
So now, like Blur going back on tour again, Jaguar wants to recapture the British magic it felt it had in the 1990s, before it got absorbed into Ford and had to make all sorts of compromises. Take it away, Automotive News Europe:
“This brand was incredibly successful in North America 25 years ago before we took the compromises and the decisions we made,” JLR CEO Adrian Mardell told investors last month.
Jaguar’s past U.S. success is now “lost within Ford Motor Company data,” said Mardell, who was confirmed as JLR CEO on July 20 after holding the position on an interim basis.
Mardell joined JLR in 1990, the year after Ford bought the company. Back then, Jaguar was targeting a much richer customer.
The brand hopes to be similarly successful with its new, more luxurious range. “There are 20 million millionaires in the U.S. alone,” Mardell said. “So, a lower volume, higher price positioning is absolutely the right position for Jaguar today.”
[…] Jaguar expanded its range in recent years to include three sedans, three crossovers and a sports car in a bid to create a British version of BMW.
However, trying to appeal as many premium buyers as possible pushed the brand into “mediocrity,” JLR Chief Creative Officer Gerry McGovern said at the same investor event, held at JLR’s HQ in Gaydon, central England.
I think “mediocrity” is a little too harsh, if we’re being honest; I don’t think the brand that gave us the F-Type should be so hard on itself! But hey, money talks and bullshit walks.
As someone who is only a successful American thousandaire at this point, I’m not in the customer base the New Jaguar is aiming for: wealthy, upscale, more exclusive. This story even says Jaguars will not be offered in every JLR dealership. The company’s going to focus on the SUVs in its strange “House of Brands” strategy for volume, while Jaguar rolls out stuff like an electric four-door GT car slated to cost $129,000.
McGovern added this:
“What we will not worry about is being loved by everybody, because that is the kiss of death,” he said. “That is what put Jaguar in the situation it is in today, which is with no equity whatsoever.”
We don’t often hear that level of candor from an automaker about their problems.
Why The Chevy Bolt Aims To Mount A Comeback
At the same time, I’m not convinced the world needs another six-figure electric luxury car; ask Lucid about that. What it does need is more affordable electric cars, and I think just about everyone would agree with that—whether they just think EVs are a great option to have or if they think the whole business is going battery-powered.
General Motors made the rare decision yesterday to un-shoot itself in the foot by reviving the Chevrolet Bolt after announcing its cancellation this year. Apparently killing its top-selling EV—and one of the few super-affordable ones on the market—went over like a lead balloon. Now, the Bolt’s tech is getting old (it doesn’t fast-charge on the level new rivals can) and its dated battery setup and platform made it deeply unprofitable for GM.
The solution, apparently, is to build a new, small, still-affordable Bolt using Ultium: GM’s new battery and software platform that will underpin all its future EVs. Scale, baby, scale! That’s how this Bolt might actually make GM some money.
Here’s best-in-the-biz journalist, Autopian contributor and friend John Voelcker with some analysis over at ChargedEVs:
How GM fits its Ultium cells into a vehicle that may use some or much of the current Bolt’s understructure remains to be seen. The rectangular Ultium cells used in North America appear too wide to install them in the two parallel rows seen in the Equinox and Blazer EVs. GM has long touted the flexibility of its Ultium cells, however, which can be packaged into modules of different shapes for everything from low passenger and sports cars to tall full-size trucks and SUVs.
“With GM struggling to scale-up its next-generation EV offerings, course-correcting and not ending the Bolt’s future—which has achieved a sort of cult-classic status—is a smart step,” said Corey Cantor, senior associate for EVs at Bloomberg New Energy Finance.
[…] This year, though, GM noted that first-half sales of Bolt EV and Bolt EUV have been the strongest since the first deliveries of Bolt EVs in December 2016. From January through June alone, Chevrolet delivered 33,659 Bolts—against 38,000 for all of last year. That first-half total compares to 2,316 Lyriqs and a mere 49 Hummer EVs (a vehicle going through its own battery recall).
In other words, the Bolts made up the bulk of GM’s EV sales for the first half of the year during which the Ultium models were going to hit the market. On the call, Barra confirmed the company’s goal of 50,000 EVs built (not sold) in the first half, plus a further 100,000 from July to December.
JV notes that “nearly 70 percent of buyers who are trading in a vehicle for [a] Bolt are trading in a non-GM product,” which for any automaker is huge. That, and the sales figures you see above, are not things you should just give up. This is actually an incredibly smart move by GM and what it should’ve done in the first place.
The next great frontier for EVs is affordability. I hope more brands step up to meet it.
The Detroit Auto Show Will Be Very Detroit-y
Around that same time Jaguar was picking a fight with BMW, the Detroit Auto Show was our biggest news (and traffic) event of the year at The Old Lighting Site. We put on our best skinny ties, ran around like crazy for days trying to get scoops and exclusive stories, and saw cars from all over the world—including, sometimes, China, which nobody took seriously.
How things change. From a news and new-car perspective, auto shows have been on the decline for years and the pandemic accelerated that trend. But they’re still very important for customers in different regions, especially now that car supplies are returning to normal. Here’s The Detroit News on what’s coming to the hometown show in six weeks:
Ford Motor Co., General Motors Co. and Stellantis NV confirmed this week they will each unveil new vehicles for a total of six reveals during the show’s Media and Technology Days Sept. 13-14 — to be followed by public viewing days through Sept. 24.
[…] As a result, Detroit brands are key to the show as it becomes more regional in content. Ford’s reveal of the seventh-generation Mustang at last year’s show, for example, was a highlight as a “Stampede” of some 1,000 Mustangs drove in from Ford World Headquarters in Dearborn to Hart Plaza.
German brands (like BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Porsche) and Japanese automakers (Honda, Subaru, Mazda) have quit the show to find other venues to sell their wares in a state where buyers are heavily biased toward the Detroit Three both for employment reasons and for financial incentives to buy a car (think friend and family discounts).
Whether The Autopian will have a presence at the show isn’t up to me these days (and no, I do not especially miss planning such things—that’s David’s problem now.) But if we do, we’ll keep you posted and maybe we can hang out in a parking lot somewhere. At least we won’t all freeze our asses off like we used to in January.
The Porsche 911 Will Die Standing, Not On Its Knees: Report
What happens to motoring icons when automakers pledge to go all-electric? That’s a tough question for brands like Ferrari or Porsche, ones much more established than, say, Jaguar. But even as the Volkswagen Group commits to its troubled all-EV pivot, Reuters quotes an e-fuels exec as saying the 911 will be the “sole survivor” of its internal combustion models:
Porsche has a plan to gradually electrify its car lineup so that electric vehicles make up 80% of sales by 2030, and it aims to make its iconic 911 the only internal-combustion engine model left standing, a top executive said.
The German luxury automaker’s plans have been closely watched, including by environmentalists, because of its investment in e-fuels and push for the EU to allow sales of such vehicles after 2035.
The automaker will electrify its compact SUV Macan, followed by the 718 sports car and then the best-selling Cayenne, Porsche e-fuels team leader Karl Dums said. The 911, accounting for 13% of sales in 2022, is the exception.
“Our strategy in the first place is switching to electric mobility and … we will produce the 911 as long as possible with a combustion engine,” Dums said.
Interesting. A hybrid 911 has been in the works for a while too, and that will surely help with emissions. But as EV-optimistic as I am, it’s one of those cars that feels like it’d be hard to make electric and capture the same magic. I tend to be of the opinion that someone driving a low-volume sports car less-than-daily is hardly an environment killer on the level of, say, LA gridlock traffic, but regulations are what they are. But I hope the 911 finds a way to survive somehow. I’m not as hardcore a fan as some are, but I still have a lot of love for it.
Your Turn
What should Porsche do with the 911? Go hybrid? Swallow their pride and do something with a simulated manual and fake engine noises? Bet the farm on e-fuels or liquid hydrogen? Keep making gasoline flat-sixes and just hope the EU doesn’t notice? Let’s hear some ideas, folks!
What Porsche needs to do is develop an Ultimate Battery System that not only can recharge quickly and hold a big range but is light and durable enough to make a vast enough difference compared to existing batteries such that people will move off of existing platforms. In essence, make the 911 ICEs vintage which will make them still desirable but have the next gen so superior in performance (even in range and durability) and cost (looking at tires on a Tesla) that it’s not even a contest.
Jaguar should return to totally wood and leather interiors, it’s what set them apart from the German competitors for decades. I have a friend who still lovingly maintains a mid-80s XJ6 his dad bought new and handed down to him. Despite his insistence that nobody has ever smoked in it (both he and his dad are/were physicians), the interior smells like cigar smoke. Every time I get in it, I picture a worker hand assembling the interior while chomping on a stogie or maybe smoking a pipe. That’s signature Jaguar.
What Jaguar desperately needs is a new Whitesnake video.
I’ll get Tawny Kitaen on the phone.
Never mind, it turns out she died in 2021.
Just read her Wikipedia page and it got bleak fast. Friendly reminder…if you’re struggling with substance abuse there’s help out there. The bottle nearly took me before I even turned 30 and if I can enjoy a sober lifestyle after building my entire existence around partying in my early/mid 20s then anyone can 🙂
More power to you friend on your efforts to be sober. Seriously.
But have you seen the world lately? WTF?
Such a fucking shit show.
(Waiting for my mail order mushtrooms)
I gave up booze in February of 2020. Seriously. Weeks before lockdown. I’m retrospect I have no fucking idea how I did it. I didn’t even do 12 step world, or rehab, or even anything outpatient. Just willpower. Probably not the best approach for most folks but it worked for me.
Weed and mushrooms are legal where I live. I don’t mind other people enjoy psychedelics but they’re very much not for me. I dabbled in them a bit in my early 20s and came perilously close to losing my shit in the process, so I bowed out. I had some unresolved mental health issues that they yanked out of me in a very scary way.
I continued to allow myself to have THC on weekends until last fall. Like I said…it’s legal here and it doesn’t have the destructive properties that my biggest vice booze does. I took a job that tests last October though, so I haven’t touched it since. I miss it sometimes for sure…particularly when I’m just hanging out doing nothing or wandering in nature. But I don’t see any reason to risk losing my job over it right now.
Props to you, Nsane. It’s been over 20 years since I (knowingly) touched alcohol myself, but I can’t imagine going through the first bit during the pandemic: that was a seriously dark time. I’m glad you made it.
Veering here…thanks to your advocacy of all things N, at Cars&Coffee Sunday, I had a great conversation with a lady who brought a Sonata N. She took the trouble to bring her teenagers, but no one noticed what she had, so I thought I’d engage-and I’m glad I did. She may not visibly fit the stereotype of an enthusiast, but she definitely is: wanted a Stinger, but couldn’t wait for an order to be built as she uses hers for work. Some 20k miles a year.
I think I made her day, and I enjoyed her showing me all the special little bits (like how the more vertical lighted bars framing the headlights fades from lighted to body-trim: pretty cool), and I wouldn’t have done it without your comments here. So, thanks!
Of course! Thanks for your kind words. The N brand is a very cool little niche that I don’t think gets enough appreciation because of the Korean car stigma that’s still floating around.
Testing for things you do in your off time is draconian and stupid. Tell them you visited CO and went to a concert.
Hell yeah!
I think ring times and obsession over metrics is what is killing jaguar; they’ll never be able to put together cars that as a whole BEAT bmw/audi on the ring, so what are they? A more boutique company makes sense to me…. but it’ll be hard to get over their past budget models, and people’s lingering memories of them.
Jags are about Grace and Pace. They forgot about the grace part.
E-Pace, F-Pace, i-Pace… yup. That checks out.
That, and they lost their identity in the name of modernity. Take the Jaguar badge off any of their recent models from the past 10-15 years and tell me it’s still instantly recognizable as a Jaguar to the complete exclusion of anything else. They also let down their interiors, which was always one of their strongest points – the XE’s gloomy sea of dark plastic was an absolute embarrassment.
Notably, every new model Jag introduced between 2007 and 2015 actually sold worse than the model it replaced, even though the models being replaced were already considered sales disappointments. Either Jaguar had unrealistic expectations in the first place and should have set different sales goals, or they drew entirely the wrong conclusions and went the wrong direction with their newer models
I feel that Jaguar’s own official is selling the company short. I believe that Jaguar was actually doing fine in the early to mid 2010s – it was making big profits back then, as I recall. As recently as 2018 it made 1.5 billion pounds in profit (per the Daily Telegraph). But it got hit hard by the VW diesel scandal, even though the scandal didn’t involve Jaguar directly, because it had committed itself to selling lots of diesel cars in Europe and the UK and that market more or less expired overnight. Then Brexit hit the company hard a second time. And then it didn’t have the scale to develop new models that Mercedes and BMW had, so when the bad times came it didn’t have many options. The electric XJ got canceled at the last minute, leaving it with nothing to replace the old flagship. So the company is left still trying (a little) to sell XFs like the 2016 one that I have. I like my XF a lot, but it does feel like a bit of a dinosaur these days. My own sense, not that I am any kind of expert at all, is that Jaguar’s strategy was actually sensible pre-Dieselgate, and that it ought not to abandon potential customers like me in a bid to sell fewer cars at higher prices. I agree with those who say that trying to compete with Bentley et al. isn’t a good idea. Jaguar’s niche – if it is going to have one at all – is as a relatively minor but uniquely characterful player in the mid-luxury and performance spaces. But I am not optimistic that it will hold onto that, and I can see Tata abandoning the brand in a few years and keeping only LR as a going concern. Which will be a crying shame if it happens.
(By the way, I count as one of those US millionaires, technically, but as others here have remarked, that doesn’t mean very much nowadays. I would never even think of spending the kind of money on a car that Jaguar is apparently going to be asking for. Nowhere remotely close.)
GM has decided to un-shoot itself in the foot? They have access to a Tenet device?
No reason they can’t have an electric version of the 911—bring back the 911E.
Not gonna lie, I am pretty stoked for the Chevy Bolt’s return. They’re small, torquey, reliable, efficient, and reasonably priced (especially with incentives).
But I wonder what GM’s actual motive is for keeping around a small economy car when every other automaker keeps creeping up the luxury ladder. Is the “intro-luxury” car market so oversaturated that the profit margins are vanishing? Does GM know about some not-yet-public emissions law that their current plan can’t keep up with? Is there some reason Ultium could hit good volume with the Bolt but not with other EVs? Is GM expecting an economic downturn and for consumers to tighten their belts?
My theory is they didn’t want to abandon that market segment, especially with the rumored Tesla Model 2 in the works, the lack of many ICE/EV vehicle options at that price point and the sudden sales boom.
They found the price point to sell as many Bolts as they can make. Now it’s time to get the cost down so they can at least not lose money on them.
I suspect that the lack of profitability led to the cancellation decision before they suddenly had 2 huge quarters, then they announced it anyway, and when the backlash came they finally revisited the original decision. It’s easy to kill a moderately successful car if the profits aren’t there, but when you’re #2 in the overall segment (EVs that is) and have a subsegment to yourself, it becomes a lot more appealing to find a way to make it profitable instead.
Given the technical difficulties in converting it to Ultium, I also kind of suspect that higher-ups didn’t see a path to conversion back in the fall, but that some clever people did manage to come up with a solution in the meantime, so that when the kill decision was revisited, suddenly there was a viable option.
One thing about the Bolt is that AFAICT it dominates municipal fleets, and while fleet sales are never big moneymakers, they do put a floor under your sales numbers and can justify retooling costs without having to rely on a big sales target in the larger market. IOW, if they do this right, they can make money without having to permanently reach the Q1 and Q2 unit numbers.
Apparently the Bolt is unprofitable. Hmmmm… I say we meme stock GM and drive up the price, short it, then we all buy Bolts to crash their overall profitability. LOL
I would love if Porsche kept both the 718 Cayman and the 911 ICE. Driving my 718 is an absolute joy. I’m not even sure where you would put the batteries to make it electric. as for the 911, keep it ICE, e-fuel, hydrogen, or whatever, don’t hybrid it, don’t full electric it. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
I get it that countries want to push automobiles away from ICE, but I also think you don’t need to paint with a broad brush. The relative handful of 911s (or certainly exotics) sold barely makes a dent in anything. Reduce emissions and consumption targeting vehicles normal people buy in bulk. If alternatives to ICE actually do catch on, eventually gas will be so expensive only the rich will be able to afford to fuel up anyway.
“There are 20 million millionaires in the U.S. alone,” hahaha, I guess the guy doesn’t realize that a large portion of those are millionaires because they are frugal and like to save money? Being a millionaire at this point doesn’t mean much. Many will be far more interested in a $35k Volvo than anything that offers 10-20% more usability for 2-3x the price. With the wife, I’m in that category, as is my dad, just based off property equity and crazy prices. My dad got a Bolt last year, not because it was his favorite car, but because he was unwilling to spend more than MSRP on anything similar (Kia Niro) that was available just out of principle, and was even unhappy to spend more than $30k on a car period. We could both go buy expensive vehicles if we wanted to, but have zero desire to, and view a luxury car more as something we can beat the crap out of (we also both have Jeep XJs) and not care.
As far as the Bolt, over 5 years in, I’m quite impressed that it is as good as it is compared to everything that has come out since. GM could just improve the fast charging speed to 100-150 kW (over a wide range of SOC and TEMPERATURE, not just peak), and it would be solid for what it is. If they really wanted to, they could even make a whole mini model range of affordable EVs out of the Bolt, and it would probably do quite well.
For the 911, Porsche should just re-engineer the engine(s) to run off (renewable) methanol, and work to get fuel distribution in place. Higher power and performance out of the engines, but with lower MPG and range seems like a good tradeoff for it. Advertise it as an upgrade to “racing fuel”. No need to bother with e-gasoline, just stick with the more basic molecule that is easier to produce and would have economies of scale with the shipping industry, and would be probably be easier to convince the authorities that it is “only e-fuel compatible.”
Jaguar sold less than 10,000 vehicles in the US last year; it doesn’t take a large portion of “millionaires” being interested to make it a success.
I agree. I’m very close to a millionaire who drives a 9 year old Fit, with no intention of changing it.
Dang Autopian is full of millionaires, who knew? Anybody want to pay off the rest of my student loans so I stop complaining about them? Lmk.
A distinction should perhaps be made between millionaire and liquid millionaire.
Anyone who bought a home and/or invested in the market a decade ago stands a decent chance of being the former. The latter is much rarer and arguably what people think of when they think “millionaire”.
Scrooge McDuck swimming in his vault of cash is my childish vision of a millionaire, not Gus who drives a 40yo beat-to-shit pickup—and is an actual multi-millionaire here locally (actual nice guy, too: not a Scrooge)
Jaaag owner here. It’s a pretty low-end F-Pace.
I love it. It brings the Grace, Space, and Pace, even with the 2-liter. Road trips of 4-5 hours used to include a midpoint stop, but that is no longer necessary. Highway range with a full tank is over 400 miles.
And when I park it and walk away, I usually look back at it. 🙂
The current plan is to keep it as long as possible. I am also definitely not part of the proposed new target demographic, so the next vehicle (whenever that happens) probably won’t be a Jaguar. 😐
It’s interesting he said that about Jaguar: that’s kind of how I see Land Rover at the moment. The Discos are fine, but they aren’t as refined IMO. Maybe the new Defenders will fill that niche.
Have you tried other cars? The f-pace looks good, but that’s where the allure stops (for me). My friend has one… it’s suspension is way too stiff so that it rides more like a truck which is a huge sacrifice to comfort. It’s not that quick. It’s got creaks and rattles at 30k miles. And the interior space is mediocre at best, the trunk is tiny. Honestly, one of my least favorite cars to drive.
I weirdly always thought the F-Pace was a more fun car than the XE sedan!
I haven’t driven the sedan but I’m inclined to agree. 🙂 Regarding fun…
For a while after buying it, I didn’t really push it at all. Then I was on a road trip and suddenly had to dodge an item that fell off the vehicle in front of me on the highway.
With a small amount of steering input, the Jaaag zipped around the debris with no fuss and none of the body roll one might expect from a crossover – and this was at 70+ mph and in normal mode. Well, that was an eye-opener. Now I’m experimenting with handling exercises, which is more fun than I expected. 🙂
“But if we do, we’ll keep you posted and maybe we can hang out in a parking lot somewhere. At least we won’t all freeze our asses off like we used to in January.”
True, but moving the show to September has made it vastly more difficult to get lodging and partake in spur-of-the-moment dining and drinking activities. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad the show is still happening and people are going. However, hotels were already slim pickings downtown when my friend and I booked a few weeks ago.
“What should Porsche do with the 911?”
Well, if they were GM, they’d make a whole line up of “911” family. </s>
IMO, all auto makes should retain a “classic” variant of a legendary sporty brand/model – similar to how STLA keeps kicking the can on the Ram 1500 Classic (introduced 2009!) Then, they can have the flexibility to blow money on what ever technical solution they want to provide to save the earth.
Jaguar should keep a XJ or F-type Classic, GM should keep a Camaro Classic, Porsche should keep a 911 Classic, and BMW should bring back the E46 M3 classic.
The tooling and production methods are proven. Who cares if it’s lower volume, you can upcharge lower volume. It’ll be faithful to the gas curmudgeons while holding a candle to what once was.
For those buyers that use ICE for daily transportation, there’s probably going to be a government based incentive to reduce ICE driving – consumption tax, gas tax, milage.
Jaguar needs an identity. They’re not BMW or Mercedes, who can sell entry-level shit on leases to new college grads and high dollar performance and luxury models to Boomers with Dollars. Maybe they need to be kind of like Volvo, a pseudo-luxury brand that has to reinvent itself through an appealing design language and quality product. Not do too much, but enough to have a consistent vision of what market they are trying to target.
Jaguar did shock and awe with the XK120, the E-type, the Mk ll, and the original XJ. They tried again without success with the last one, but this seems to be the best Jaguar move going forward.
Porsche only makes about 10,000 911’s per year, I’m sure they can find buyers for them outside the EU and other crazy mandated places for years to come, same with Ferrari and the like.
As for the Bolt, sounds like they’re just gonna cram Ultium in the current model as best they can, which I think the batteries were the main holdup on faster charging with the current models so that’d be good. If they can minimize upgrade costs then maybe it’ll still be cheap enough, but if they GM it up too much (cough Cadillac ELR cough) then their EV sales leader will die the Cobalt death GM is known for.
The Ultium is based on pouch cells, which GM’s marketing documents arm-wave as being easily configurable to fit a variety of footprints. Assuming that’s true, then retrofitting the Ultium cells and electronics (BMS, DC-DC charger and controller) into the Bolt’s existing pouch cell-based system might not be too expensive.
It’s not like GM has never updated its drivetrains during a model-year refresh before.
As for the future of the 911, the writing is on the wall. Studebaker made the transition from horse-drawn wagons to self-propelled vehicles. Whether Porsche execs choose to embrace the future is up to them.
Jaguar knows how it feels to be Thick as a Brick.
Not holding my breath on the Bolt, part II. Expect disappointment because well, GM.
Porsche? I understand this 100%.
“What should Porsche do with the 911? “
Make two versions… a hybrid for those that want automatic and one with a manual.
And for the rest of their lineup, that should go battery-electric.
I agree with your two-version solution, although I would make the hybrid a PHEV with at least 30 miles of EV only range. A manual transmission 911 sounds like fun, but I would actually consider buying a PHEV 911. I have considered a Taycan, but it is way too much money for a car I can’t easily take on a road trip.
Porsche needs to scale down the 911 in size and cut 500+ lbs off the weight. It’s too damned big. If it was built to about 5/6 scale, it would be a much better car, IMO. Do this while retaining the same engine output. MPNA: Make Porsche Nimble Again.
You just described the Cayman.
Sort of my point. The Cayman is a better 911 than a 911. The Cayman needs the 911’s engine, which from what I can tell, Porsche isn’t offering.
You can get it in the GTS, right?
How did I not know this existed? They detuned it, unfortunately, but damn. This is almost exactly what they should have offered with the Cayman all along.
Or any older 911. I park my 77 near a modern 911 and it’s absolutely dwarfed. The current 911 is stupid, and too big. The Caymn is what the 911 should be today.
But I need my vestigial back seats!
Hey…the ability to sell something to your partner is no joke, and I know I’d have a better shot at getting my wife’s approval with a 2+2 rather than a straight two seater, usable seats or not.
Children really do fit in there! It’s not an absurd feature!
I realize the readership here is disproportionately single and/or childless (hence all the whining for regular cab trucks and subcompact economy cars), but for those of us with small kids, the +2 really can make a difference.
Yup! We have a furry friend and are currently working on the kids part.
The question: Porsche should just keep turning out 911s until the universe destroys itself. There is something about these cars — especially the earlier air-cooled cars, if you ask me — that can’t really be duplicated with any sort of modern-age redesign. They were driver’s cars, and we’re getting so far away from that (even from Porsche) that the world will be a far poorer place when they’re gone. So: no EV, just a flat-six, preferably a manual transmission, and a car that challenges its driver to be as good and focused as possible.
Which also relates to Jaguar. Take an E-type and a 3.8 Mark 2 and make the designers and engineers carefully study what made them great. The rot had already begun to set in when Ford took over, so the corrections have to go back farther. Classic Jaguars were expensive, but delivered something special for the money. More electronics, more screens and more flashy trim won’t do. Grace, Space and Pace.
Finally, GM needs to realize that the reborn Bolt doesn’t need either 500 horsepower or a 500-mile range. It needs to be compatible with available charging sources and should have some version of GM’s newest battery technology. Keep the price down, and don’t make it a rebadged upscale something-or-other. For its purpose and price point, the current car is just dandy.
Not only that, but classic Jaguars were to their luxury competition what the Corvette has always been to Italian sports cars – ridiculously good value for money in comparison. Jags in the ’50s and ’60s were expensive, but astounding value for their performance, refinement, and gorgeous interiors, they were priced lower than their closest direct competitors but somehow seemed to offer more. The fact that that was a winning formula is not at all surprising
The world without 911s:
“… Without fuel they were nothing. They’d built a house of straw. The thundering machines sputtered and stopped. Their leaders talked and talked and talked. But nothing could stem the avalanche. Their world crumbled. The cities exploded. A whirlwind of looting, a firestorm of fear. Men began to feed on men. On the roads it was a white line nightmare. Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice. And in this maelstrom of decay, ordinary men were battered and smashed… “
I love the reference.
Well, you would. 🙂
An almost funnier response would’ve been “I don’t get it”
Today’s world has become “no place for ordinary men.” (or weird dogs.)
Sometimes life just sucks.
But the movie will always kick ass.
The world w/o 911 & all ICE!
Given that the Mark II rose to popularity while BMW was just starting to recover post-war, arguably BMW’s success is “Try and do what Jaguar did, but serious.” For their modern product, decent driving vehicles with middling interiors was never going to be a path to success (they can commiserate with Cadillac on that one). I don’t think they need to go full four-wheeled Buckingham Palace (I assume they’ve still for the rights to Daimler and Vanden Plas if that’s a segment they need to chase), but the X351 XJ should be the standard the entire brand aims for.
Jaguar: The sourdough bread of the car industry.
Not loved by everybody or it started off with your grandmother?
“We couldn’t make vehicles that were competitive in the normal luxury segment, so we’re going ultra luxury” sure is…a strategy. The ultra wealthy are a finite resource that are often hyper image focused. I don’t think Jaguar has the clout to play in that realm like fellow English brands Bentley and Rolls do…hell Mercedes tried to pander to them 20 years ago with the Maybach and even they couldn’t pull it off….not to mention if they try to produce a sportscar in that range they’ll be going up against Porsche, Ferrari, etc.
I think they’d be better served by making normal luxury vehicles that are competitive, because there’s an endless supply of clout chasing types that’ll stretch themselves financially to lease shit with desirable badges for $699 a month or whatever. But what do I know…the rich are richer than ever and we’re dealing with gilded age level wealth inequality right now, so I understand why they’re doing what they’re doing, I just don’t think it’ll work.
Hell yeah to the Bolt living on. I’m going to try to have a level of optimism here before it winds up being reborn as a $60,000 crossover or a trim level on the upcoming CamaroCross electric abomination. The Bolt is a good car and it seems like for once GM looked in the mirror and were like “you know what? Maybe continuing to fire live ammunition into our crotch isn’t the best approach”. Will that last? Commentariat…it will not, because GM, but for now I’m happy.
Porsche’s plan makes sense and I don’t want a goddamn BEV 911 ever. I’d rather the car have the dignified death it deserves as a flat 6, rear engine, ICE vehicle. If they absolutely HAVE to put some hybrid stuff in there for emissions I’d begrudgingly be fine with it so long as it’s still a flat 6. I’d say I’m excited to see Porsche’s new EVs but I’ll never be able to afford one anyway so I’m indifferent.
I love Porsche to death but the best shots I’ll ever have at the experience are either paying cash for an old Boxster as a weekend car or stretching my budget for a certified 911/Panamera. I’ll admit that I’ve actually seen some certified higher end Macans (S, GTS, Turbo) pop up in the 50-60 range and thought about it, but at the end of the day they’re still lifted GTIs with Audi engines. Is that really a Porsche? Rhetorical question….
Jaguar lost their way. IMO, once they transitioned to German SUV/Saloon/Coupe alphabet soup clones (why does everyone feel the need to copy BMW when they’re not BMW?), they fell off the tracks. I bet you all of my Autopian Bucks that if Jaguar started to produce sexy, desirable like the Mark series and E-types, hell even the XJ series, they would sell plenty. If you can’t compete in terms of bang for the buck, or distinguish yourself, sell from a position of heritage. That’s one thing Porsche does right for the most part, and if there’s a German auto manufacturer Jaguar should take notes from, it’s those guys.
You’re pretty spot on here. I’ve always loved Jaguar for being…well, Jaguar. Weird. Elegant. Fussy but great engines. Unique. Etc. When they started cranking out indistinguishable crossovers I completely lost interest in them outside of the F Type and the now discontinued XJ.
Hell I still browse listings for V8 XJs from the late 2010s and unsurprisingly they haven’t really depreciated all that much. Nice ones are still a $60,000+ proposition, and there’s a reason for that.
Well put and exactly how I’ve always felt about it. There’s a certain quirkiness about Jags that personifies the brand in my mind…if Bentley and Aston Martin are coolly aristocratic, Jag is more oddball British upper middle class, the Army Colonel who’s obsessed with his rose garden or the Barrister who’s watching trains/taking detailed notes on the weekends.
It’ll never match BMW’s Kraftwerk-ian feel, so why even try, why not be itself?
And it’s not like current BMW is worth emulating, dear god….and I say that as someone who’s generally a fan of BMW and has been casually looking through listings for used X3Ms….
The original Porsche was a faster VW. Borrowing from the VAG parts bin seems acceptably authentic Porsche.
I’m warming up to the idea, I’ll see certified Macan GTS-es popping up in the high 40s frequently…and Audi powered lifted GTI or not they’re a lot of car for that price.
I get them as a loaner occasionally when I take my Boxster in for longer services. I recommend a 2019 or older. Earlier this year they gave me a 2023 Macan for a weekend and it has gotten so heavy. The steering felt un–Porsche and too heavy feeling. I’m sure the S model would feel a bit better but for me the Macan was better when it wasn’t rolling like a tank.
Good to know. I much prefer the look of the current Macan but I’d never do a base one because it’s powered by the goddamn EA888, which has tortured me enough for one lifetime. And for whatever reason Porsche and 6 cylinders are synonymous in my mind…although I absolutely wouldn’t kick a 4 popper 718 out of my garage.
But those are legit boxer engines and not VW corporate leftovers. Big difference…
IMO, that Macan is begging for a turbo4 PHEV option tuned for the electric motor to pick up performance duties in the AWD option. I can’t expect the batteries would reduce the weight but maybe lightening the load over the front wheels would help the steering feel.
I understand that should be out soon but of course at a price premium.
“I’m going to try to have a level of optimism here before it winds up being reborn as a $60,000 crossover or a trim level on the upcoming CamaroCross electric abomination”
It won’t. Mary Barra said it herself yesterday and it’s been reported in several articles in both Detroit papers that it will be basically the same car with upgrades to the battery (obv) and whatever other whiz-bang GM branded stuff. She also said that the goal is for it to be at a lower price point than the Equinox. They want to crank these things out quickly without too much re-tooling. Pop on over to the Detroit News or the Detroit Free Press sites if you want, it’s in there.
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2023/07/25/gm-next-generation-chevrolet-bolt-ultium/70461986007/
I want that to be true. However, when Jaguar built the F-type, dripping with sex appeal and performance and a worthy successor to the XKE, it just did not sell. For too many people, I think their era of glamour has passed.
I think ditching the 2+2 formula hurt the F Type a lot. Whether or not the back seats are actually useful is up for debate, but I imagine if it had 4 seats they could have taken some sales away from Ze Germans, who still make luxury touring coupes and convertibles like A5, 4 series, newest E class coupe, etc.
Don’t get me wrong…those cars don’t have a huge market share, but they sell enough to stay viable in their respective lineups. Rich folks still buy luxury GTs…but unfortunately once you’re making the 2 seater sacrifice you’re in the ring with more purpose built sports cars, like the 718, Supra, etc.
It’s a good and gorgeous car that just doesn’t have much of a market. I believe ditching the base V6 and manual were poor decisions as well. If a car is going to be that compromised I don’t see why you’d shackle it with a base 4 cylinder and torque converter automatic…
At launch it did not have a manual option for the performance model. I think that killed a lot of enthusiasm for it. And most all of them were a lot more pricey than a Boxster or Cayman so the value just wasn’t there for anyone looking in the segment.
I looked at them but didn’t really consider them for that reason. They were/are sexy as hell though and Jag always does a great job at design.
Honestly if you want to spend 60-80k on a two seat sports car there’s really no reason not to get a Boxster/Cayman. They’re pretty much perfect. If I was shopping in this segment (and I won’t be, by the time we have the money and space to keep a dedicated sports car around everything will be electric) they’d be at the top of my list. I think I’d consider a C8 and Zupra as well, but that’s about it.
And you don’t really have to spend that much. Lots of people buy them and drive them very little for 2 year leases and turn them in. The CPO warranty Porsche offers is basically just as good as having a new car for a lot less.
This sounds too much like a commercial at this point, but ask me how I know…
You’re preaching to the choir, I worship at the altar of Porsche and have done extensive research on their certified program. It’s as good as anyone’s and they’re not going to put their name on a car that’s a ticking time bomb. Hell…unless you’re super wealthy I think certified is the best way to buy a Porsche.
…the other German high end brands are a different story. BMW, Mercedes, and Audi only give you an extra 12 months of warranty and the carfaxes of some of the stuff BMW certifies are sketchy as hell. No, I will not be buying an M340i that was leased in New Jersey, went 36,000 miles without an oil change, and has an accident on its record for $48,000, but thanks?
I hate Porsche styling, so there’s one reason. Which, conveniently for Jaguar, happens to be right in their wheelhouse.
You are the only person I’ve encountered who says they hate Porsche styling…I guess Clarkson does too but that’s a parasocial relationship rather than whatever it is we’ve got going on here in the commentariat. Not saying it’s wrong of course, it’s just not an opinion I’ve heard too many times.
If I had $60k-$80k to blow on a 2-seat sports car, I’d be frozen in paralysis while my head (Porsche Cayman) went fisticuffs with my heart (Lotus Evora).
The Porsche 718 is a perfect sports car (even in 4-cylinder guise), but there’s something about the visceral nature of a Lotus that makes it both imperfect and, as a result, easier to love.
You’re not wrong amigo. The Evora is a heartthrob and the new Emira is essentially everything that made it great but even better. I’d probably look at them as well and every now and then I see an older Evora get listed in the 40s and start having naughty thoughts…
Lotus is the financially smart choice. It has Toyota reliability!
Toyota POWERTRAIN reliability. If something else goes wrong so help you god…I’ve heard horror stories about the costs of simple body work and the non-Toyota parts being a nightmare to track down when they inevitably go bad. I think I remember Doug talking about how little it takes for an Elise to require a full body replacement.
Don’t get me wrong…they’re not going to give you the headaches of other used exotics, particularly of the Italian variety, and if you’re mechanically inclined you can probably do a fair amount yourself, but Lotus ownership does not seem as easy as it seems at first glance once you do some digging.
Porsche should keep making flat sixes for as long as there is a market in the world to sell them. Then they should become the new Singer and remake their flat sixes until they are outlawed. Then I hope I am dead.
Yep, that’s the correct one.
Wise automakers will keep some ICE development going on in the background, so when the ill-thought-out mandates collapse as they (hopefully) will, they are ready to go with the latest ICE tech they should have been developing all along.