The first rounds of sales reports are in for January and, while the market overall was mixed, the one standout piece of data so far is that if you sell a hybrid you probably had a great month because everyone wants hybrids.
Seriously, I keep looking at automakers and being surprised at just how well hybrids are performing. I know I said that 2024 was going to be the Year of the Hybrid, but… that seems to be happening faster than I expected. I’m not even cherry-picking the data!
You know who else has noticed this? Toyota, a company that isn’t offering much in the way of electric cars in the United States because it’s too busy dunking on its competitors with its huge hybrid lineups.
What else do we have for The Morning Dump? Oh, Italy and Stellantis continue to beef. And Hemmings may have a solution for the annoyance of selling cars online.
Maverick Sales Up 98%, Tuscon PHEV Sales Up 927%, Et Cetera
Not every automaker reports monthly sales anymore, but the good news is that Hyundai, Honda, and Ford are out with their sales reports (and we have some data from Toyota) so we can make some reasonable conclusions about the market.
In particular, we can see how electric cars are performing relative to hybrids. If you’re TEAM HYBRID you’re gonna be quite happy reading the sales reports as they come in this week.
Up first we have Ford. The company as a whole was up 4.3% thanks to a slight lift at Ford and a 20% year-over-year increase from Lincoln. Which vehicle was the biggest gainer? That would be the Ford Maverick, a truck that fulfills a lot of what the market wants:
- Is a truck.
- Comes in a hybrid.
- Is affordable.
This all makes sense to me, though it’s also worth mentioning that the 98% rise in year-over-year sales does owe something to the slow pace of production at Ford’s Hermosillo plant prior to the end of last year. Ford’s since added another shift and is finally cranking out new trucks at a higher rate, though apparently not fast enough to meet market demand.
Ford doesn’t break out hybrid v. non-hybrid sales by vehicle, but it does give us those numbers overall. In January of 2024, electric vehicle sales were down 10.9%, while regular gas-powered cars were only up 2.6%. And hybrids? Up 42.7%!
This trend continues at Hyundai, which actually had a down month as the company ran a little short on supply and faced a slightly tougher market:
“Coming off a record-breaking 2023, January was a difficult month with economic challenges and interest rates making it a tough retail environment,” said Randy Parker, CEO, Hyundai Motor America. “There were bright spots with sales of electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid achieving substantial year-over-year growth, and our all-new Santa Fe starting to arrive at dealerships.”
Hybrids did super well, with the Tucson PHEV up 927% and the Santa Fe PHEV up 273%. Hyundai’s electric cars did pretty well, up 41% year-over-year (it probably helps that the Iconiq 6 is now on sale). You know what did better? Of course you do. When you combine PHEV with BEV sales, the total increase is 77%.
Hyundai needs a PHEV Santa Fe. Just saying. Make it happen.
We know, via Automotive News, that Toyota’s North American sales were up 23.3% month-over-month, but I don’t have a breakdown of hybrid v non-hybrid yet. I do have the data for Canada and it shows hybrid sales way up as well ( RAV4 Hybrid (up 298.4%), RAV4 Prime plug-in hybrid (up 389.5%), Tundra Hybrid (up 116.5%), Prius family (up 782.1%) and Corolla Hybrid (up 38.0%) et cetera).
The same is true at Honda, with both the CRV and Accord hybrid posting their best-ever January sales.
It’s hybrid time!
Toyota Is Extremely Happy About This Hybrid Thing
Look, Toyota isn’t having the best month, but the future’s so bright that Akio has to wear shades. The company’s huge portfolio of hybrids, including a new hybrid-only Camry to join the hybrid-only Sienna, is a big reason.
Of course, the downside is that sometimes you have to wait for your car, as Reuters reports:
But demand for hybrids is so strong that buyers have to wait for about a year to get deliveries of some models such as the Toyota Sienna multi-purpose vehicle, and pay full manufacturer-suggested retail prices, he said.
In stark contrast, Tesla, which has been offering sharp price cuts since last year in major markets including the U.S. and China, suffered a vehicle margin reduction last quarter and warned of slowing EV demand this year.
Hybrids accounted for 9.3% of new light vehicle registrations in the United States from January to November in 2023, outstripping those of EVs by 1.8 percentage points, according to S&P Global Mobility data.
I haven’t seen a huge price increase for hybrids across the board and, in fact, transaction data shows hybrids are a net cost savings to return-to-market buyers.
Toyota obviously can’t sail on hybrids forever and needs a good solution for electric cars which may end up being solid-state. Who knows?
Italy V. Stellantis, Part 29
I wrote yesterday about the Italian Industry Minister (pictured right) saying the country would put up money for a stake in Stellantis, which seemed like a positive step in the country’s beef with the increasingly less-Italian carmaker.
I should have waited a day, because it doesn’t seem like the beef is getting cooler. The beef is, in fact, getting full carbonade valdostana.
Again, via Reuters:
Speaking in the northern city of Trento, Adolfo Urso said Stellantis had an “unbalanced, absolutely not equal” shareholding structure between its French and Italian stakeholders.
This bugs the hell out of the Italian government, and Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares (pictured left) is quick to point out that Volkswagen besting Fiat in Italy for the first time in like 100 years could be solved with more incentives.
Noting that Stellantis’ strongest brand in Italy, Fiat, in December was for the first time in almost a century not Italy’s top selling brand, losing the title to Volkswagen, Urso said this was not down to insufficient government subsidies.
“The problem is not with the government, but with the (Stellantis) group. It’s a problem for the company, which evidently needs to review its marketing policies and its models – they should do so”.
Someone grab the polenta!
Hemmings Might’ve Solved The Most Nerve-Wracking Part Of Buying A Fun Car Online
Here’s a fun entrant from Thomas:
Buying a fun car online can be simultaneously a joyous and a terrifying experience. After all, you’re spending a lot of money in one place, and there’s often no face-to-face contact with sellers, but if everything goes right, you’ll end up with something that really tickles your fancy. So, if you can’t get eyes on a car that’s for sale online, how can you be absolutely sure that you won’t get screwed? Well, Hemmings has a possible answer.
The collector car ad giant is now offering car-focused escrow service Keysavvy to buyers and sellers under the name Hemmings Pay + Title for a flat fee of $299. If you aren’t familiar with escrow, these firms often verify the identities of buyers and sellers, hold ownership documents or cash independent of sellers and buyers, then complete the transaction once the other party has held up their part of the deal, be it the legal ownership documents to the vehicle or the money required to purchase the vehicle.
In operation, this service is a little bit more than basic, because it includes an electronic bill of sale, and it works a bit differently than just receiving a signed title. Keysavvy is a registered vehicle dealer, which means they do all the title processing while the title’s in escrow, which should mean that you won’t have to wait in line at the DMV.
Escrow services aren’t anything new — just ask the real estate industry. However, directly integrating an escrow service into an online collector car marketplace is new, and substantially different to how the game is currently played. For example, here’s how it works on Bring A Trailer:
The 5% buyer’s fee is paid via the credit card on file at auction close. The transaction for the winning bid amount is between the buyer and the seller. At the close of auction, the winning bidder and seller will receive each other’s contact information via email. We recommend that the seller send the buyer a photocopy of the title and a bill of sale prior to the buyer sending payment. For payment, we recommend a wire transfer, and we’d also recommend that bidders considering alternate payment methods contact the seller to discuss prior to bidding. In general, buyers are responsible for shipping, applicable taxes, registration fees, and other costs associated with vehicle acquisition.
In this arrangement, there’s a lot of trust put into the buyer and seller both being legitimate. While online auction sites vet sellers and have credit cards on file for buyers, situations like winning bidders flaking or cars and sellers not honoring winning bids have happened in the past. Oh, and that’s before even getting into buying a car from a standard online classified ad, where vehicles may be misrepresented or out-and-out scam listings.
Obviously, using an escrow service just isn’t necessary for most online car purchases. If you’re able to check out the car in person, have a pre-purchase inspection done by a third party, or pay for the car in person after seeing it and meeting the owner, you can get some proof that the car actually exists and that there aren’t any title issues before you sign on the dotted line. However, for more expensive purchases you simply can’t get eyes on, using an escrow service is a solid practice.
So, let’s say you want to buy a fun older car online without getting screwed, but it’s not listed on Hemmings. Well, good news. Several escrow companies already have experience in automotive transactions, with Escrow.com being reputable and one of the most experienced in the business. Its service fees vary based on the value of the transaction, but for a $30,000 car, you’re looking at an escrow fee of $267.
It’s refreshing to see Hemmings partner with an escrow service, because using an escrow service is a great way to weed out bad actors who want to take advantage of automotive enthusiasm for pure financial gain. It would be massively confidence-inspiring to see other online marketplaces pull similar moves, because as it stands, buying and selling cars online can still be like the wild west.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
This is now the 40th anniversary of “Synchronicity,” the final album from The Police. While I’m more of a “Regatta de Blanc” guy, it’s an enjoyable record and extremely Sting. Full-on, shirtless Sting. The whole slow-motion dancing-with-candles thing in the video, like the whole album, is absurdly overdone. Not even in a bad way. I’m into it. Also, there’s a lot of mythology in “Wrapped Around Your Finger,” so you get absurd lyrics like:
You consider me the young apprenticeCaught between the Scylla and Charibdes
Still a great jam.
The Big Question
What is the hybrid you’d most want to buy right now? Do you actually own a hybrid? Are you planning to buy a hybrid?
Nothing currently available that I’d want to buy. I want a PHEV version of a Maverick or Kona or Seltos or Corolla Cross. Sure I’ll take a hybrid but with a PHEV most of my daily commute would be electric and that would be ideal.
The Kia Niro (Kona) PHEV has 33 miles electric range. I have driven the hybrid version and it is surprisingly roomy inside for a small crossover.
I thought the Seltos was the Kia version of the Kona? I haven’t looked at the Niro because I figured it was too small for me.
The Kona and Seltos are twins, correct. The Niro is positioned as a more carlike hatchback alternative to the “SUV-like” Seltos, and was twins with the now discontinued Ioniq Hybrid (Prius competitor).
Would the PHEV Kia Niro work for you?
Not sure. I thought it was too small but MAX FRESH OFF says it’s roomy so I might look in that direction the next time I’m in the market for a new car. I’m hoping in the next 3ish years when I’m ready to get another car there will be many more PHEV options that are readily available.
Fits 5 adults and a 35-pound dog in my experience.
I’m not, would be nice if Ford would put one in the Bronco as that’s our current mid-life-crisis plan to get in the next few years. Was interested in the RAV4 Prime but it was unobtainium for so long I’m over it.
I would love to get the new Prius Prime as a second vehicle for my household. Or maybe a 2nd gen Volt. And yes, I own a hybrid, the exact one pictured at the top of the article, with the same trim and shade. As for purchasing, probably nothing immediately. If the Maverick gets refreshed in 25 or 26 as a PHEV, I’ll be first in line.
we’re looking to get my mom a new car this year and I want for her to get a hybrid, but she really likes the corolla hatchback, which is the one that isn’t offered in the US as a hybrid, she doesn’t like the sedan
I’ve faced the same dilemma. Problem is, if Toyota puts the hybrid drivetrain into the Corolla Hatchback, the pricing would come so close to a base Prius that they’d essentially be offering two very similar cars at the same price, and… why?
Prius people want the Prius and will get the Prius and not necessarily cross shop with the corolla and vice-versa. the model loyalty with it is weird, I think there is a way the two can exist if they just did something there.
“…Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares (pictured right)…”
Wait a hot damn minute here! Yesterday, you said that he was that guy on the left with the uncanny resemblance to Jon Lovitz, and now today he isn’t?
Something fishy is going on.
Damn, I got it backward! Honesty in Jon Lovitz jokes is very important to us.
Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Oddly enough, you picked a fantastic week to showcase the devil as he is on the new Bill Burr podcast today!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9_Dz1PBqzM
I guess I technically have a hybrid. Ram 1500 w/ the eTorgue battery system. I love it for what it is and does. No problems yet at 22,000 miles and we’ll see how that holds up. May change my tune if it falls off a cliff.
I would like to end up with a Tundra Hybrid, especially if it could get better mileage even though it seems decent currently. That or the F150 Powerboost if Ford ever decides to fix their quality issues. Both trucks are wildly too expensive though and still probably have to hope for a good used price but I’m not holding my breath. I won’t be in the market for hopefully 5+ years but who’s to say. If I could swing it, I’d downsize to a hybrid Tacoma but unfortunately need full size at the moment.
The wildcard is the Ram 1500 Ramcharger. On paper that’s exactly what I’ve been wanting so I am hoping it’s good and actually affordable.
Do not get a Tundra hybrid if you want efficiency.
It definitely seems to get awful mileage while pulling stuff which is…not good.
Just in general. I know a lot of people who have the new Tundra. like .. a LOT. for .. reasons. Most of then prefer the 5.7, but every single person I know who has the MAX version hates it and regrets getting it. They all complain about mileage and range. I’ve heard from more than a few they can’t even get 500 miles with the 36 gallon tank.
I wonder if the reason the 5.7 was dropped was not fuel economy but emissions? That engineering was already done on the 2.4T, so the 5.7 would require extra development cost.
Also the mileage doesn’t surprise me as much because it’s positioned more as a performance rather than efficiency hybrid, and because turbos don’t pair with hybrids well.
I have the same thoughts, and you’re absolutely correct on the hybrid being about towing power and torque.. The big problem with that is Toyota has spent 20+ years making efficient hybrids. People have preconceived notions about what they should do, and getting worse economy than a stonkin’ big V8 is a great way to piss people off when they just paid $70k+ expecting something they aren’t going to get.
Oh yeah, that weird eTorque thing!
Considering the amount of private sellers I run across who won’t take a wire transfer, a cashiers check, or a certified check and will accept nothing else besides you driving across several states to hand deliver tens of thousands of dollars in cash, I wonder how many Hemmings advertisers will go for that service.
Or maybe Hemmings attracts a better class of sellers than Marketplace as it is, so it’s not an issue.
Just bought a Hyundai Tucson Hybrid last week! Our FIRST NEW CAR! It’s for the wife, but I did get to drive it on Sunday, though. So far she loves it. 34 mpg on the first tank.
I would take either the PHEV Ranger (that we aren’t getting in the US), or the PHEV Transit Connect (that we aren’t getting in the US). If Toyota, GM, or Ford make a Ramcharger competitor, I’ll probably end up with that. You’ll never get me to buy a Chrysler product again, even if they’re Stellantis now.
So. You are a vehicle manufacurer. Market says:
Do you like making money? Is selling product a thing which you desire to do?
Please see that last thingy. That’s the important part. Remember that part.
I think the market is speaking pretty loud and clear right now
but governments gonna govern…
Honestly noone currently makes a hybrid I want right now. If Toyota Makes their Stout pickup BOF with a planetary e-CVT and AWD-e I’d buy several.
Same goes for if Ford made a 2 door 3 seat F-150 with a planetary e-CVT
Same also goes for the Wrangler 2 Door.
I admit to being somewhat intrigued by the idea of the Corvette Eray but I’ll want to hear more about how the system behaves in practice first. Right now it seems like a fair amount of added weight without the benefit of much electric-only range or improved fuel economy, if any.
It has no fuel economy benefits. IIRC it gets the same mileage as the regular C8. The electric motor is only there to improve performance and add AWD. The consensus seems to be that it’s the best grand touring Vette they’ve ever made…but at the same price as the Z06 it comes down to what you want.
Honestly I’m sure a lot of buyers would be better off with the E Ray. If you’re not going to track a Z06 owning one would be a bit of a waste in my eyes and an E Ray will make for a comfortable cruiser. But even as someone who loves hybrids I’d have a hard time going E Ray over Z06 for 8,600 reasons ????
I don’t think they are in owner’s hands yet, which are the reactions I want to read, not necessarily writers.
I too would have great difficulty buying an Eray over a Z06, especially given there’s no significant electric mode. AWD is silly in a car like that; the entire point of going mid-engine was to put the power down. I don’t think a couple of front motors will improve performance that much, but again I’m eager to see.
It actually out accelerates the Z06. It’s slightly faster to 60 and faster in the quarter mile by .7 seconds.
Not sure where you got those numbers from, but from C/D:
The E-Ray’s 10.6-second, 128-mph quarter-mile dash is 0.1 second and 3 mph behind the quickest Z06s over that distance; beyond that point, the Z06 gradually stretches its lead.
For some reason the internet told me the Z06 ran an 11.3
That time I believe is for the base C8.
Either way, they’re both great cars and the fact that that level of performance is available for about 100k is just Murican brilliance
“What is the hybrid you’d most want to buy right now? “
A used Prius
“Do you actually own a hybrid?”
No.
“Are you planning to buy a hybrid?”
Maybe.
I’m going to be in the market later this year. And it all comes down to what is available for what price.
My first choice is a used 2016+ Tesla Model S. Those can be had for the low CAD$30K range.
But if I can score a used Prius of similar age and mileage at half the cost or less, then I might go that way.
Or I might get a 2015+ Ford C-max if I can score one fore really cheap (like $10K or less).
One this is for sure… my next car will either be a good hybrid or a good BEV.
And note that I only have one car. And I will use it for the odd road trip. And THAT means I want access to a consistently reliable charging network… only the Tesla Supercharger network meets that standard.
And THAT means on the used BEV market right now, it’s Tesla or nothing.
And used Tesla prices have been dropping faster in my area than used Prius prices… mainly because Tesla is cranking them out like crazy and is dropping the prices on new ones. Meanwhile at Toyota, they’re still inexplicably having trouble raising production to a level that meets demand. And that’s reflected in used car values.
You know you are causing the marketing teams’ heads to explode with your cross shopping of a Prius and a Tesla S. My guess is that the C-Max v Prius is more usual. Your thought process makes excellent sense, and I think more people think that way than you would expect, but I pity the marketing analytics team trying to make a model to identify where they should be spending to get the most bang for their buck – and can you imagine the advertisement comparing a Prius to a Model S…
And it gets even worse when you consider that I’m coming from a manual Honda Fit and up to now, I’ve only ever owned manual cars.
And one of the reasons for going hybrid or electric is my kids need to learn how to drive in the near future.
“I’ve only ever owned manual cars”
Maybe try a Hail Mary with a 1st gen Insight with a 5MT? They’re old but damn if they don’t get good mileage.
I doubt they’re nearly as safe as 2010+ cars, though.
Plus they didn’t say whether they want to teach the kids manual.
Oh I dunno. The driver in one that crashed doing 190 mph came out just fine:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hbNlR-fMlOw
Safety isn’t a top concern for me. In my view, anything made in the past 20 years (excluding Chinese, Indian and Russian vehicles) is more than safe enough as long as it’s in good condition and well maintained.
I like the 1st gen Insight a lot. But it could only ever be a 2nd car for me as I need a vehicle that has 4 doors and at least as much space as my Honda Fit. And I’m not interested in getting a 2nd car.
While 2017+ C-Maxs have Sync 3 and thus Android Auto/Carplay, some older MYs can be retrofitted with Sync 3 with medium difficulty.
The day I have to replace my 2012 Prius v (which I hope isn’t soon), I’m planning to look at gen 4 Prii (2016-2022). Anecdotally, they’re the best Prii for overall mechanical reliability (albeit, since gen 5 is still too soon to tell, and either way they have less headroom and cargo space).
I don’t commute to work and my friends/family are all far from me, so plug-ins don’t really make sense for me.
I had a hybrid from 2004 to 2019, when I went all in on BEVs and have never regretted it. Very glad to to be done with gas, oil, and smogging.
Give me a PHEV Maverick with a FLATBED and I will be a man in heaven. I think it would be a hit all over the place. Although, they can’t keep them stocked as configured so “why the rush?”.
Praying Toyota gets that little truck over here with a hybrid, even if sold as “farm only” for now.
I’ve been saying for a while the Maverick need a step-side option. It wouldn’t be hard to change out the bed body panels for step-side ones. I doubt they’ll ever make a flatbed one sadly.
You might end up with a PHEV Ram Promaster in the future they make chassis cab variants of the ICE models, it would be very easy to slap a flatbed on one.
That CT200h on OBOG last night was NICE, and that model has my eye.
What’s OBOG?
I’d be wary of the gen 3 Prius drivetrain. It’s all anecdotal, admittedly, but r/Prius and PriusChat are full of stories of blown head gaskets at 150-200,000 miles, plus some stories of water pump failures and the brake accumulator being a four-figure repair if/when it goes.
I have a 2012 Prius v and I didn’t do all my research going in so I’m constantly paranoid. Nothing bad has happened yet and I got my EGR preventatively cleaned out at 140,000 miles recently, but I think I’d be pretty sad if this didn’t last me past 200,000, especially since I’ve given it a 1.5″ lift, dashcams, window tint, and subwoofer.
Battery, brake accumulator, engine. Any one of those, I can probably handle (maybe not engine…). Two at once would be more than it’s worth.
Also–probably fine for you + passenger, but I think the CT200h is “decorative back seats” for legroom.
it’s nothing to be paranoid about. It’s not like you’ll get beheaded if the head gasket goes.
And if it goes, then you decide whether to fix it or not. And it’s not like an engine repair on a Prius will cost anything like it would cost a V8 or V10 engine from BMW or Audi.
In a worst case, you go on car-part.com, source a replacement engine (they go for around US$2000 for a low mileage example) and swap it in. The total cost including shipping and install labour is likely under US$5000.
And that’s IF the worst case happens. When I look at car-part.com, I’m seeing Prius engines of that gen with over 300,000 miles. Hell, I’m looking at one that has 587,000 miles.
I’d actually prefer to buy cars with blown motors. I enjoy rebuilding them, and can get good deals and add my free labor. It’s how I got a 10 year old Caddy for $5k (motor fine, but it needed EVERYTHING).
OBOG, the new game we have been playing on Discord. Or-Best-Offer-Game. Join us!
I *really* wanted a Maverick XL Hybrid when they came out, but there was zero availability. The price was $22.5k (MSRP+dest) – it was a screaming bargain. Two years later, an XL Hybrid is more available, but the price is up $5k to $27.5k. That’s a big leap for essentially the same vehicle, and in that price range, there are other compelling choices since I don’t specifically *need* a truck-like vehicle.
You should have ordered one and you’d have it by now! I ordered an XLT hybrid when the order books opened for 4 days in September 2022 and picked it up August 2023.
I tried to order one, two times. Both dealers expected me to pay $10k *over* MSRP, or effectively a 50% markup.
We had two Ford Escape Hybrids in the past, which worked great (the drivetrains were super-reliable and barely sipped gasoline. It was just everything else that started falling apart after 13 years, 180k miles). Currently driving a Ford Cmax PHEV, which gets me to work on electricity, then gets 42-ish MPG on the commute back home. Planning to replace it with a 3-row PHEV in the near future (3rd kid is coming soon, and the in-laws are moving in with us to help out with the kids.)
Zenyatta Mondatta is peak Police. Fight me.
What, no love for Outlandos?
Close second.
Perhaps peak, but Outlandos is the best. It’s just so, pure.
I do agree that Outlandos is the best. I will not fight anyone over that.
F-k the Police
Still waiting on that Mazda CX-50 hybrid.
I hope not as an Uber
I’ve seen rumors that it’s going to borrow the Corolla Cross hybrid’s powertrain.
Makes sense, they’re built in the same factory. I really wish they were borrowing the RAV4 Prime system.
That would be cool as hell. Either way once there’s an electrified one it’ll definitely be on our list. We both like the CX50 and the CX90 a lot. That being said I have no idea what the fuck Mazda is thinking with the CX70…it could’ve been incredible if it was smaller than the 90 but it’s the same goddamn car with a third row delete.
The CX-70 would have made sense as a “coupe” with a swept-down rear, but I agree, Mazda really missed the ball this time.
I have no idea why they made an entirely new model for what could have been something on the option sheet of the CX90 or a trim level. Don’t get me wrong-I like the CX90 so I also like the CX70, it’s just deeply weird to me that it exists. It almost feels like Mazda’s trolling us.
AFAIK the Corolla and RAV4 transmissions are similar if not the same, just with different engines. Mazda would likely use their own 2.5L, so it’d effectively be the Mazda-ified RAV4.
My wife is in the market for a civic hybrid, but she supposedly has to wait until summer (even though they’ve been on sales outside the US for, what, 2 years?). Hopefully Honda steps up the release date.
The hybrid I’d most want to buy for myself would probably be the Volvo S60 PHEV. The combination of significant electric range and performance in an elegant, useful, unassuming package is pretty hard to beat. It would make a great daily.
As I’ve been saying all week as one of our resident Hybrid Dudes, we’ll be buying for my wife way, way before I’ll be buying anything for myself again and we’ve agreed that no hybrid=no dice. She’s also pregnant with our first little one and we plan on trying for 2. We also have a pup who’s about 30 pounds.
Of course I’m Van Gang all the way, but she refuses to even consider one. As of now we’re going to wait another year or two then assess how much we need size wise. Since the current midsized NPC SUVs have grown a bit, we may be okay with one. If that’s the call then we are getting the new CRV Sport Hybrid. Her mom has a regular ICE version of the new CRV and it’s better than it has any right to be.
If we wind up going bigger things get a bit weirder because the next class up has very few hybrids. There’s really only the Highlander/Grand Highlander and the PHEV CX90/regular CX90 if you count a mild hybrid. We’d love a Pilot or Passport, but alas…no hybrids for some reason. The Palluride twins only offer an ancient, wheezy, gas chugging V6. Same with the Traverse. Subaru has essentially no hybrids at all right now.
The new Santa Fe is about to offer a hybrid and I’d assume a PHEV since the last generation offered one…but my wife has reservations about anything Korean because of the Kia Boys insanity. We live in a decent enough neighborhood but both work in rough parts of DC and she’s worried less than wholesome individuals would try to steal her car if she went Hyundai/Kia. Unfortunately I think it’s valid and I’d hesitate to go Korean again because of the absolutely face melting depreciation anyway.
So as of now the CRV is the plan. Hopefully before we buy they’ll release a Pilot/Passport hybrid because the extra space will be nice, and we’ll likely check out the Highlander too but Toyota dealerships love shenanigans. There’s also a hybrid Forester on the way which I assume will have a Toyota powertrain/ECVT. The new one is really ugly but I’d feel better about going Subie if it had a Toyota hybrid setup. I do not want to deal with an anemic NA flat 4/traditional CVT combination.
Congratulations on the impending wee one!
I would really like the V60 PHEV, but at S60 PHEV prices. Unfortunately, they only offer in the highest Polestar tune trim. The other two unfortunate things I hear are that the reliability is garbage for nearly any Volvo PHEV and while plenty powerful in a straight line, the nanny controls and floaty ride are a let down when you want to have fun every once and awhile.
As much as I want a quick car, I would trade outright quickness and top speed for something more fun to take through the corners.
I never thought I would want an SUV but a solid 5 seater that has some quickness, handles well and is fairly fuel efficient is now back on my radar. The new CX-70 is actually a winning design in my book since it is a Mazda that might have a chance of holding 2-3x 6’4″ sized people and has a nice interior to spend my 20k+ miles and a ridiculously high number of hours in. Factor in that it is decently quick in PHEV form and should handle well for it’s class all while using 87 octane – losing low single digit HP and torque loss vs $1k+ more expensive 93 octane per year for me is a no brainer.
A mid-size used 530e might be a good compromise but the price is still high and maintenance is still German high as well.
I heard from a video review that the CX-70 and 90 have the exact same 2nd row positioning, so if the 90’s 2nd row doesn’t work, the 70’s is unlikely to either.
They’re literally the same car. The 70 just has a third row delete. Like many, I’m puzzled as to why Mazda felt the need to make an entirely new model rather than just offering a 2 row CX90 as its own trim…or hell, just offering it as an option.
But for whatever reason they did…and I’m sure the CX70 is a great car because the CX90 is a great car.
my neighbor (2 kids, big Lab and a smaller dog) now drives an Odyssey with a bumper sticker that says,
“I’ll never drive a minivan – Me”
So proud of her 😉
to the original post,
I don’t understand how Maverick sales can be up 98% when they are not on sale ?
Ordered my 2024 during the 5 days that orders were open in 2023, still hasn’t even been scheduled for build six months later. The 2025 Maverick orders aren’t open yet..
You sound pretty hip for congresspeople
Haha my wife and I both work in healthcare and we have to go where the most need us
I’d go for a Sienna, but they are pure unobtanium and over my budget. Second choice is a Maverick hybrid, but again unobtanium and over my budget and BiLt FoRd TuFf.
I drove the Sienna hybrid 1000 miles as a rental and generally liked it, but the prices are crazy and the interior is IMH pretty marginal.
Marginal interior is a Toyota specialty.
My dad’s 2014 Sienna seats are the most visually disappointing seats I think I’ve ever encountered.
They look like they should be plush as hell, and then you sit in them and they’re…fine.
They don’t hurt. They’re not uncomfortable. But you expect to sink into them and that is not what you get.
I want a PHEV, but not a goddamn crossover or SUV. Makes for quite a small pool of cars I’d consider.
I would say it’s not obvious that Toyota can’t sail on hybrids for the foreseeable future as the technological and regulatory environment surrounding BEVs continues to shift rapidly. The BEV First Mover crown has long since been taken by Tesla, and everyone who has tried to out-Tesla Tesla has either fizzled or failed miserably. Toyota’s position remains a very sensible one: wait for everyone else to beta test new technology on consumers, and then pick the actually reliable option. It’s what their success is built on, why change a winning formula?
Your best bet is probably a Toyota or a Volvo if you aren’t into CUV/SUV stuff then.
Prius Prime seems like a fairly obvious choice.