Jeep is up there with Ferrari and Tesla as a brand that’s considered among the most valuable in the world, and not just for cars but among all brands, period. (And it’s the most patriotic!) For many years, it kind of set the paradigm as SUVs—whether designed for actual off-roading or just to look the part—came to dominate the new car market. So why are Jeep sales flagging to levels that have the Stellantis CEO weighing in?
That story kicks off today’s morning roundup, and we also have dispatches covering some new Land Cruiser and 4Runner news; General Motors pushes back on aggressive new fuel economy rules; and another electric disappointment from Mazda. Let’s jump in!
When Everyone Is Jeep, No One Is
Thanks to the various supply chain disruptions over the past three years, it’s hard to parse the usual insights from new car sales figures alone. As a result, there’s one trend even I hadn’t noticed until the Wall Street Journal’s Ryan Felton pointed out (smart guy, that Felton): Jeep’s market share has been steadily declining in recent years. This, despite being one of the major Stellantis cash cows, along with Ram’s trucks.
How did this happen amid a booming SUV market? Increased competition, for one; the Ford Bronco can now do a lot of things only the Wrangler and a few of its associated models could do for a long time. That’s just one example. How many SUVs and crossovers do you see marketed as driving across a sweeping desert? I feel like damn near all of them, even if most of those cars—body-on-frame 4×4 or otherwise—will spend most of their real lives at grocery store parking lots.
But that’s only part of the problem. The other is that Jeeps are getting expensive, even in our stupid new era of sky-high car pricing. From the WSJ:
The rugged American brand that spawned the modern SUV has posted lower sales for eight straight quarters. Since mid-2018, Jeep has surrendered significant market share, falling from sixth to ninth in sales among top U.S. brands.
The decline came as Jeep pushed into new vehicle categories, including a pickup-truck version of its popular Wrangler and the Grand Wagoneer, a large, luxury SUV priced above $90,000. But Jeep has faced stiffer competition in its core markets, like compact and midsize SUVs, as automakers target those categories with new offerings.
Amid the sales decline was a bright spot for Jeep’s parent company, Stellantis: The price customers paid for Jeeps has soared, helping the bottom line. Like most major automakers, Jeep gave priority to output of its priciest, most-profitable vehicles over the past three years, as supply-chain disruptions left dealership lots near empty, and consumers spent record sums for new wheels.
[CEO Carlos Tavaeres] said the brand slipped recently with ineffective marketing tactics and didn’t always have the right versions of popular models available at dealerships. The company intends to gain back market share in the coming year, he added.
“It is not rocket science,” Tavares said. “We just have to do it properly.”
Jeep, like a lot of brands, did the “Charge obscene prices for something that won’t have all the options it had before the virus hit and you’re just gonna need to deal with that” thing for a while. And it was summarily quite profitable. But now, new car supplies are getting back to normal. The competition is heating up. I don’t expect a widespread drop in car prices to pre-pandemic levels anytime soon, or ever, but the worst of the pricing extravaganzas seem to be over.
Among that story’s findings: the average new Jeep price is now $55,000, America’s unsold Jeep supply is more than double the industry average, and dealers are having trouble squaring those prices with the fact that Jeeps have historically gone to people with lower credit scores. (I know that sounds mean, but it’s what the story says!)
There’s a bigger lesson to be learned here: the auto industry needs to realize that people were only going to put up with $50,000 average new car prices for so long until they just stop buying cars. So far this year sales are trending up, but I think that could have an expiration date with prices being this high. We can’t all buy like millionaires, unfortunately.
New Toyota Land Cruiser Debuts Tomorrow, New 4Runner On The Way Soon Too
Here’s an example! Toyota has spent much of the past year and this one updating its extremely dependable but ancient truck lineup. This revival was led by the new Tundra, then the new Tacoma, and now the Land Cruiser is next—and back in America after a hiatus. Don’t forget the 4Runner, which we’ll get to in a second, and the reported comeback of the FJ Cruiser. You see why Jeep is having a flop-sweat moment?
Tomorrow night, we’ll get the full slate of details on the new 2024 Land Cruiser. The latest teaser can be found above. We know it’ll be a different model from the international-market Land Cruiser that came out a few years ago, very similar to the Lexus GX that it will be built alongside it and likely sold as the Land Cruiser Prado in other places. Since it’ll be on the same TNGA-F body-on-frame platform as these other trucks as of late, we should be able to expect four-cylinder, hybrid and turbocharged V6 engine options.
As for the 4Runner, the latest forum rumors—and take these with a grain of salt as always, but they seem plausible—sounds like it will effectively be a Tacoma SUV more than ever this time, with four-cylinder power only and tons of off-road gadgets. We could see that later this year or early next as a 2025 model.
As ever, I’m glad to see Toyota going big on hybrid power for these ultra-popular SUVs and trucks. Because…
GM Balks At New Fuel Economy Rules, Biden Administration Says Deal With It
Once again, tough new fuel economy rules are coming and once again, the auto industry is throwing a hissy fit about how hard and expensive it will be before they figure out how to just do it. Under those proposed rules, NPR reports, fleetwide fuel economy averages could be 58 mpg by 2023. And that could also include revising the outdated and frankly nonsensical MPGe ratings for EVs, which I think are fairly useless. (It could also mean that automakers can’t lean fully on EVs to reduce their fleet averages, but that seems TBD.)
Reuters reports GM is pushing back, but the feds say pffft:
General Motors warned the Biden administration’s planned changes to vehicle emissions rules could cost the auto industry hundreds of billions of dollars in penalties by 2031, which the Biden administration said on Thursday was wrong.
[…] At the meeting, GM estimated the auto industry as a whole could face $100 billion to $300 billion in total penalties — or $1,300 to $4,300 per vehicle — from 2027 to 2031 depending on whether an Energy Department proposal to revise the petroleum-equivalent fuel economy rating for electric vehicles (EV) is enacted.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which oversees Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) regulations, said late on Thursday GM’s “estimate is pure speculation and inaccurate.” The agency will release its proposal to hike CAFE requirements for 2027 and beyond on Friday, sources familiar with the agency’s plans said, after the White House signed off on Tuesday.
This is why I’d like to see GM turn some of those gas SUVs and trucks it’s going to make forever into hybrids, like Toyota’s doing. But so far the GM strategy, unlike Toyota and Ford, is to “skip a step” and go straight to EVs. I question the wisdom in that, personally—though I’m also here complaining about new car prices being too high, so screw me, right?
It Would Also Be Nice To See Mazda Take Electrification Seriously At All
Remember when we all hinged our hopes for a rotary engine revival on that Mazda MX-30? Well, like every new rotary engine car you’ve hoped for since the RX-8 was put out to pasture, you can throw those dreams straight into the trash. The MX-30, all variants of it, are now dead in California, the only state where it was sold. American buyers just couldn’t get behind its 100-mile EV range (understandable) and the rotary range extender option was deemed not worth it (kind of a shame.) Car and Driver says only 66 were sold this year through June. Yeesh.
The MX-30 will live on in Japan and Europe, where it’s better suited to exist anyway. But if you want a Mazda option that’s not purely internal combustion, your options remain extremely limited here:
Mazda will discontinue MX-30 EV for the U.S. market following the 2023 model year. Our current U.S. electrification efforts are focused on large platform PHEVs, such as the first-ever 2024 CX-90 PHEV and upcoming CX-70 PHEV, as well as introducing CX-50 Hybrid into our lineup to address the specific needs of the U.S. market.
I’d like to point out that only one of the cars on that list is actually on sale right now and it’ll set you back at least $50,000. So while other automakers are in some cases racing full-tilt toward EVs, Mazda says “we’ll get you some hybrids at some point, maybe, just like we did with those diesels.”
I get that Mazda’s a small, independent car company and it’s tough to compete with the big players. But it needs to show buyers—and fans—that it’s serious about what’s coming next with automotive powertrains, lest it faces total irrelevance. Or gets bought out at fire-sale prices by SAIC Motor and those folks sort things out for them.
Your Turn
Congratulations! You have been appointed Head of the Jeep® Brand. Like that scientist guy in Captain America, someone sees something in your courage and patriotism—not to mention your very good car takes. How do you go about reviving Jeep’s fortunes in the U.S. and beyond?
Yeah, serves Jeep right. I had a JLUR Diesel for about a year and it was honestly a $30,000 vehicle at twice the price. Luckily I found a greater fool (Carvana) to buy it. If I was king of Jeep, first thing I would do would be to stop slapping the Jeep logo on anything with wheels and 7-slot grill. The second thing I would do is sell a bare bones Wrangler (at razer thin profit) to registered Jeep owners or members of off-roading clubs. These are the guys that keep the brand image alive but are getting priced out. I’d keep selling the expensive Wranglers, because the mall crawlers pay the bills. Cherokee would move down market and get solid axles, Grand Cherokee would be for people that care about ride/comfort. Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer, just move those over to Ram. No one is taking anything that big and expensive off-road. Rest of the lineup, no one cares, please remove.
Jeep has always been seen as the most valuable brand by a lot of people, but I’d argue it’s really not. Was it the most valuable brand at AMC? Sure. Was it the most valuable brand when Chrysler bought them? Sure, for a time anyway. Jeep has always been seen as a life preserver for the parent company of the decade, but I think that value is gone.
Jeep for most of its history was one of the few manufacturers of rugged, reliable 4WD off-roaders. Now every brand has some form of this, whether it be in pickup truck or SUV form. What separates Jeep from Ram, GMC, Toyota or even Mercedes? All of them make large, rugged 4×4’s with either big shocks and tires or comfortable luxo-barges that can go through a river. They don’t offer anything compelling beyond their brand image. They rested on the knowledge that they were the only “off-road and rugged” brand, and in doing so left the door open for the rest of the industry.
The Bronco does 90% of what a Wrangler does, with more room and comfort on-road. The Grand Cherokee is a great family SUV, but so is every other mid-size SUV on the market. The Renegade is a great little car, but doesn’t offer anything amazing in it’s competing segment.
Wagoneer? I’ll just buy a Tahoe/Suburban.
Grand Wagoneer? I’ll spend my $100k+ on a BMW or Mercedes at that point.
If the Jeep lifestyle is what you’re really looking for, then you’re no different than a Harley buyer at that point.
It was the most valuable brand but they killed that golden goose in search of more eggs. The Renegade, Compass and KL Cherokee should have been Dodges, the Gladiator was a product in search of a buyer and should have just been a three row Wrangler called the Wagoneer and the three row Grand Cherokee should have been the Grand Wagoneer. There should not be a Ram based Jeep and being fourth fiddle to the BOF full-sized SUV game is a waste of time.
They stupidly doubled down on their “Americana” schtick to try and divert people’s attention away from the fact the cars are actually made by an Italian company that’s now French but failed to make the cars competitive.
The Renegade did do well for a time, but by now it’s an aging product in a segment that’s had a lot of changes. Entries have come and gone, and I think it now takes the place of the outgoing Trax/Encore as the oldest design in the class.
I knew the Renegade grew in price, but didn’t realize it was $28k now to start. Even if you assume they’re pricing it with thousands on the hood in rebates that dealers are just hoarding, it’s not quite the old Chrysler strategy of “keep selling it for cheap and flip a coin if we update it to meet regulations that year” like they did for the Journey and Grand Caravan. The Compass is the same price and did grow in sales last year, it seems they’re putting more behind that model – in updates and in incentives.
Any one of its competitors is thousands less; a Kia Seltos or Chevy Trailblazer now do the “stylish boxy crossover” thing better and better if you’re a payment or credit-focused buyer, and there are cheaper options still from there.
As for ATPs, I still think a lot of buyers are holding out longer because of the market, so it’s more well-off people that are the ones making purchases or those that need to out of necessity (like a larger vehicle for a growing family) and that skews the numbers. The average vehicle age continues to climb; even if people want a new car, they figure they’ll hold out for a while longer.
For Toyota, I’m really intrigued how the new SUV strategy plays out. It seems like the 4Runner could be awfully close in size and mission to the new Land Cruiser; if they shrink it some, will that alienate current owners? Or will those buyers step up to the new LC or a Sequoia (despite its shortcomings, Toyota loyalty is a strong factor).
In the past, Jeep has done well with bare-bones and luxury riffs on the same car. Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer, Cherokee (xj) and Grand Cherokee (zj).
They should lean into that, the ‘non Grand’ vehicles should be more capable and utilitarian. With solid axles and no-nonsense interiors. The Grand vehicles should still have the 4×4 capability but be plusher inside.
Wrangler can be split into 2 lines as well. Higher trims for family vehicles and true base trims for farm work/offroading.
I think the Bronco for all it’s issues is a good part of it, better riding, still can do lots of off-roadness. Jeep’s gotta go cheaper, their profit ration on the Wrangler/Gladiator had to be fairly high as for all it’s updates it’s still fairly basic, just got heated seats this year, and you could still get it with roll up windows and manual locks, that’s base Mitsubishi Mirage stuff right there. The Renegade should be at the level of the Chevy Trax, or cheaper.
GM really dropped the ball on hybrids, Voltec was really getting refined with 2nd gen Volt, then they just stopped. Could have beefed up the engine and motors a little(not even that much) and put it in the Equinox and claimed all the mpgs.
The Bronco is just a more appealing car. Its styling, despite being nostalgia driven like the Wrangler’s, just seems way more fresh. It also comes in lots of fun colors, has better powertrain options (as long as they have the issues with the 2.7 sorted out), overall it just seems way more fresh than the Wrangler, which has more or less been resting on its laurels for the last 20 years.
Ford also had a stroke of genius with the Bronco Sport. They cashed a chunk of the Bronco cache in on a fun CUV that offers enough capability for probably 95% of people. It’s also actually competitive in its class, it can be had pretty cheap if you go easy on the options, and they keep doing fun limited run ones that are keeping it interesting several years after it’s debut.
You mean, the Bronco II?
Yep. Just without the makes-the-Explorer-debacle-look-tame rollover issues.
(I had a friend with one back when, and I’m amazed to this day that we never went over given his driving)
And you just described all of the reasons why Jeep should be extremely scared of the upcoming Toyota FJ as well. I think the Bronco nailed the same formula there and it will be interesting to see Ford and Toyota fight for market share with those.
Maybe if there really will be this many competing models soon we’ll actually see some price competition. A guy can dream…
Jeeps are 99% about image and “lifestyle”. They need to convince consumers that the economy is good, they can afford to spend a lot of money on a car that looks cool but is really mediocre transportation, and that their image is more important then their 401k. I would put together a new marketing initiative called “life is good”. Here is the tagline: Why wait for tomorrow when you can be your best YOU today?
Here in Wisconsin, we have… like… zero off road trails. The state owns 17% of the entire state, 5.9 MILLION acres, yet off road trails exists on none of them.
Yet people still buy jeeps here. I don’t get it.
Because we go to Indiana, Illinois, and Michigan with them.
Since my brother-in-law’s household in Wisconsin has run a Wrangler for many years I can answer that. The big draw is, and let’s not forget this, the Wrangler is a convertible. It’s actually a pretty perfect vehicle for Wisconsin summers and can handle inclement weather in the winter as well. The people involved are living an outdoor-oriented lifestyle (e.g. triathlons, car camping, very light towing with a teardrop), it’s just that off-road prowess isn’t a part of the equation for them. I’ll have a good laugh at the mall-crawlers, but I can accept there are Wrangler owners who will never do any hardcore wheeling but for whom the Wrangler makes a lot of sense.
They buy them for the image. “lifestyle” is in quotes because it’s just the image associated with a specific lifestyle they want. That’s why the “trail rated” badge works so well.
People who want to go off-roading in Wisconsin by $30,000 UTV side-by-sides. More capable and marginally cheaper than a highway vehicle.
People who want to go camping/fishing/hunting/whatever get a subaru or a pickup
My Turn:
I’d reduce excess inventory of Renegades and start producing models with low-mid trim level to keep pricing reasonable. They’d sell just fine that way. This applies somewhat to the Compass as well. Everything else is mostly fine.
tl;dr – All the negative things I heard about Jeep’s problems in the first story are mostly Renegade-related.
As new head of Jeep, I’m cutting the tops off Renegades. Make them more Jeep-like and you can probably sell a bunch more. Maybe make a more off-road-oriented model. I think there’s a market for something like the Samurai to come back, and especially a market for smaller, cheaper, adventure cosplay.
I’m also going to push for longer range and/or better efficiency in the 4xe line, as well as overall expansion of the line. Drop the Wagoneer or make it a lot cheaper, drop the Compass entirely, reduce MSRP on most of the line, if possible.
Funny, I was thinking Samurai too when I posted below. A bare-bones weekend toy SUV, basically a kinda-offroad Miata.
Wranglers, esp. with the 4 doors now (it always sticks in my mind when I see a 2 door due to how uncommon they are now) are daily drivers for many people.
It makes me sad that 4-door Wranglers seem to be the default now. And they are the only thing available in the 4xe. But you’re right, they are a daily driver, probably never rock-crawling, rarely even out on a logging road.
I have a couple Facebook connections who are Jeep people, and they love to post photos going down a dirt road, then with one wheel up on the only rock in a flat field. It truly is the appearance of adventure that they bought. Jeep would do well to offer the Renegade in something people can think of as an adventure ride. And offer one that could be an adventure ride without spending too much, like your kinda-offroad Miata example.
Isn’t that the big feature of the Renegade? I remember all the videos and articles showing off these removable roof panels, but i’ve seen exactly 0 on the road with said panels removed.
Did they not work properly irl or did Jeep just not actually make any?
I think they had trouble with the MySky roof, which was closer to a panoramic sunroof than a true removable top. I don’t know how many were optioned with it, but it was discontinued a couple years ago. I’ve never seen it in person, but it mostly seemed like a complicated sunroof.
We have a ’16 Renegade with MySky (the non power option to keep it simple). For the 20k-ish price the Renegade was great, and at 95k+ miles has been almost completely problem free. The panels comes off in less than 5 minutes and can be stowed in the rear. Going topless in the Rene isn’t nearly as open air as our Wrangler, but still fun.
Non-power was probably the way to go. Admittedly, I didn’t do much of a deep dive, but the problems I saw were the power option, which makes sense. More moving parts. The non-power option would be fun. Too bad they didn’t at least keep that one. Though I guess the panoramic sunroof they now offer is pretty equivalent to the power MySky with glass.
I’ll give them one thing–you can option that sunroof on any trim level, which is better than most manufacturers offer.
“How do you go about reviving Jeep’s fortunes in the U.S. and beyond?”
Sell cheaper cars.
Uh, no. Cheaper cars have much, much lower profit margins. That will make the problem worse, not better.
Read between the lines, and Stellantis admits the problem pretty clearly: they have undesirable customers. If you have a large percentage of subprime customers you are not generating consideration from upscale purchasers from whom you can make a reasonable profit.
Stellantis’ problem is not my problem. Their profits are none of my concern.
so do Mitsubishi and Nissan, but they’re doing fine
Jeep was in the right place at the right time at the beginning of the crossover boom (almost no other brand was as well positioned at the time). Then they got lazy, rested on their laurels, and started charging absurd prices for mediocre crossovers on the mistaken belief that slapping a “Jeep” badge on any old vehicle will make it worth 20% more than the competition. Now that literally everyone is making crossovers, they’re feeling the pain. The new Grand Cherokee is an excellent vehicle and a pretty good buy for the money. The Wrangler is in a category of its own (other than the Bronco). Everything else though? Meh.
The Cherokee is an ancient, outdated vehicle (barely any updates in 10 years) that’s barely priced below the far superior Grand Cherokee. The Compass has a severely underpowered engine and looks and feels like a cheap econobox, not something with a starting MSRP of $28K. Ditto for the Renegade, which starts at the same amount for a subcompact CUV and is approaching a decade with no major updates. The Gladiator is a cool idea, but again they botched the pricing. No one who actually wants a truck to do “truck stuff” will buy these when they’re as much or more expensive than much more capable midsize or even full-size trucks. They’re a toy like the Wrangler, except they’re worse off road because of the longer body and start at almost $10K more. Huge miss. The Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer are just phoned in and not nearly good as the established competition (Ford & GM) but are priced like they are.
Bottom line: most of their vehicles other than the Grand Cherokee and Wrangler are either unremarkable also-rans in their segment, overpriced for what they are, or both. If I were in charge of Jeep, I’d lower prices across the board and work quickly to introduce a new or improved Renegade and Compass. I’d also introduce a new Cherokee that’s actually competitive. It’s absolutely incomprehensible that they just straight up cancelled one of their offerings in that segment instead of even trying to compete.
Oh noooooooo Jeep, it’s the consequences of your own actions! This should be a warning to other manufacturers, but as long as line goes up it won’t be. Everyone is trying to push upmarket and woo those sweet sweet ultra wealthy who are richer than ever, but as I’ve said here a few times…they’re a finite resource, and they’re going to become an even more finite one as more and more wealth gets concentrated at the very top.
They’re also intensely image focused and they’re not going to look at expensive options from Jeep or (insert other manufacturers here) when they can continue to buy the Mercedes, Range Rovers, etc. that their wealthy families have been buying for generations. Everyone except Jeep knew that the Grand Wagoneer was hilariously doomed from the get go…and to go further, why would people who are just normal wealthy or clout chasers stretching their budget drop $60,000 on a fucking Jeep?
That’s X5, GX, MDX, Defender, assorted German coupe SUV abomination (I hate them but the normies don’t), etc money. There is absolutely no compelling reason to pick a Grand Cherokee unless it’s heavily discounted. The powertrains are ancient. The interiors aren’t up to par. The list is long. The same goes for the Renegade and Compass. You’d be absolutely nuts to choose either of them over the Asian competition. They’re reheated FIAT leftovers for fuck’s sake.
Jeep also has too many goddamn products to begin with. They simply don’t need a Compass, Renegade, Wrangler, Gladiator, regular Cherokee (although I think it’s dead now), Grand Cherokee, Grand Cherokee L, Wagoneer, and Grand Wagoneer. Honestly I think they could get by with just the Compass, Wrangler, Grand Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee L. We’ve reached peak SUV and the market is oversaturated.
This is a long winded way of saying they have a lot of fat to trim and that they’ve overplayed their hand. Don’t get me wrong-Jeep will exist until the heat death of the universe because they have a level of brand recognition with normies that’s on another level. Hell I saw a Jeep Compass yesterday that was covered in ridiculous stickers like TRAIL RATED, I’M THE BLACK JEEP OF MY FAMILY, and others. I laughed my ass off of course, but it speaks to level of sway the brand has.
At the end of the day NPCs want to cosplay as adventurers and it’s a little inexcusable that Jeep is having so many issues. It’s one of the most bulletproof brands in the industry. They need to refocus their lineup and find ways to get people into $25-$40,000 cars. More informed, affluent consumers can tell their products can’t go toe to toe with the competition, but the regular folks that want a Jeep only want a Jeep. Brad and Becky going directly from the fraternity/sorority house to $50,000 jobs with their family companies are willing finance a Jeep whatever at 11% APR and they always will be.
Also it wasn’t a Compass-I just remembered it was a Jeep Patriot. Somehow even more cringe…
The Patriot always kinda galled me. It’s got that handsome rectilinear OG Cherokee look and coulda easy been the perfect “throwback” Jeep, if they’d put a little more effort into it.
Jeep needs to sell the Avenger here, a smaller less-expensive model. Perhaps also the 4×4 Panda too. Something like the Lada Niva, crude and cheap.
They should make a LWB 7-passenger Wrangler Safari, using the extended wheelbase of the Gladiator, so basically a Gladiator wagon with 3 rows. They could sell it for Wagoneer prices and print money off it, espceially if they offered a Trackhawk with the Hellcat V8.
And why was the MX-30 only sold in California? Why not all 50 states? Honestly, I didn’t know it actually went on sale yet at all 😛
Someone needs to start selling cheaper cars here. Everyone left the bottom of the market wide open for the Chinese to come in and conquer. They can sell a new car for under 10k and have plenty of new cars under 20k, possibly even a sub-20k EV. China can undercut anybody, and everyone else deserves it for the gouging.
We should also switch over to the international UNECE standards. This will make cars cost much less to build, and also make the stupid 25-year shit moot.
“We can’t all buy like millionaires, unfortunately.”
Not all but a whole lot can. According to the Jaguar story last week there are 20M millionares in the US alone. Assuming they are only counting adults that makes 1 in 12.8 adults in the US a millionaire.
The problem I think is non millionaires cannot borrow like millionares so easily anymore. Bring back the laissez faire lending days when a part time $15k/year strawberry picker could score a quarter of a million dollar loan and those Jeeps will sell.
I also think some of the issue is that even a lot of millionaires can’t buy like millionaires. If that net worth is something like 1.2 million, some of it’s probably a house, some is a retirement fund, and very little ends up liquid.
My father scoffs at “those millionaire politicians,” but he has a paid-off 4 bedroom house, a log truck, a shop large enough for that truck, a paid-off Tundra, and a 4Runner that is either paid off or very close. His IRA is probably pretty close to a million on its own. But he’s not spending like a millionaire because he’s going to need that for retirement.
When the average home price in the US is north of 400k, it takes a multimillionaire to spend like we think of a millionaire.
It’s been interesting watching the Wrangler become “Mustang-ified.”
And by that, I mean how it’s evolving into a different thing, while still trying to hang on on the original’s ethos as best it can.
The Mustang isn’t really a pony car anymore…it’s a proper sports car at this point. It’s been tough for me to accept, but I do recognize it. Seems similar with the Wrangler…it’s basically a luxury offroader rather than a no-frills, get the job done reasonably well guy.
As plenty of others have said, would be interesting if Jeep created a spiritual Wrangler, a smaller, inexpensive but raw-but-fun vehicle, but not sure the market is there at this point.
Hi, I’m the new CEO of Jeep and I’m going to trail rate this brand to success. I’m looking over at my friends at Dodge and seeing it’s not large displacement V8s selling the cars. It’s special editions. Every Jeep will be a special edition. To save money, nothing can be licensed. Every Jeep will be a person long dead, military battle or place. Come buy the Wrangler Gustavus Adolphus Edition. The Grand Cherokee Battle of the Bulge Edition, The Gladiator Spartacus Edition or Compass Pueblo Colorado Edition. Soon will have editions so special, we only make one, like the Wrangler For Brad from Peabody Edition.
If they made a Horace Kephart edition, I would probably need to consider it.
But not a Thomas Hiram Holding edition – that guy was too full of himself.
I hate that I think this might actually be a good idea. Th exclusivity of it all might be the right way to go for Jeep.
They’ve got only five months to make that happen! 😉
Right there with you. IMO hybrids make the most sense in the short- to medium-term.
At the moment we have manufacturers trying to position BEVs as immediate and direct replacements for ICE vehicles, with limited success. If I were looking for a new vehicle, I would want the new one to be better than the old one [from a complete ownership experience, not just specs] and BEVs are not there yet.
Hybrids can make use of improving battery technology in such a way that most people can reasonably expect to drive around on battery almost all the time, but they will still have a backup ICE capability of some kind (REx or similar). I think this will allay the anxiety of new-to-the-niche consumers.
tl;dr – position hybrids as 90+% EV, rather than 50% EV and 50% ICE.
As head of Jeep, I would fall way back on the heritage And come out with the Jeep GP. Smaller, lighter, simpler and still with strong off-road capabilities; aimed to compete with the Jimny (as someone else mentioned) worldwide. But, also, make it available in North America.
And, walk over to whoever approved the exterior design of the new Grand Wagoneer and fire their ass. That thing is hideous on the outside.
Well, maybe if GM hadn’t discontinued all their small cars (and almost all cars, period) and hadn’t been so half-assed with hybrids for so long, this wouldn’t be an issue.
Toyota has been getting 40+ mpg out of full-size sedans for quite a while now
No matter how often you say this, it isn’t going to make it more true. As you point out, sales are up. Real incomes are up, and up the most in the lower income quartiles. On most measures, the economy is as good as it has been in decades. Consumers are obviously seeking out these higher priced vehicles; it’s not as if lower priced offerings are no longer available or something.
It’s really weird to see so much pessimism here all the time!
Literally none of that is true and nobody agrees with that take. Real wages are declining. Sharply. Period.
https://www.dallasfed.org/research/economics/2022/1004
Your link is nearly a year old. Here is up to date info.
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/realer.nr0.htm
Return to 2010s trend line:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
“Nobody agrees with that take”
Yes, I agree it’s weird people can’t see a good economy in front of their noses.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason [and basic arithmetic], and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
I come with data, you come with vibes, then you accuse me of neglecting reason and arithmetic.
Buddy, I realize your schtick is to be angry and miserable all the time (and to let everyone know just how angry and miserable you are), but the world outside your basement is a lot better than you give it credit for. Come out and enjoy it sometime.
And your schtick is to be an insufferable contrarian who refuses any view that disagrees with your own, and to ceaselessly lob ad hominems and oh-so-obvious bad faith arguments.
If you can point me to an instance on this site of you changing your mind publicly based on new info presented in another comment (instead of the much more typical doubling down on insults and anger as you’ve done again here), then I’ll accept this criticism from you. If not, I suggest investing some of your newfound real wage gains into a mirror. Enjoy your day.
Let’s talk statistics and economic metrics a bit.
Between 2019 and 2021, US poverty rates fell. Great news, right? Well, when the BLS put their data under a microscope, they saw a lot of people had lost health insurance during that period; when adjusting for the value of the lost coverage, the poverty rate had actually increased.
This is a perrenial problem with statistics in science and economics. Any metric that is easy to communicate will often fail to capture a useful snapshot. The metrics you posted there are correct: inflation-adjusted incomes are indeed up. However, inflation is based on the CPI, which is just an index of consumer prices. If the cost of necessities rises but the cost of luxuries falls, the CPI remains stable because the average didn’t change.
Ours is an economy of contradictions. Comparing consumer expenditures by quintile for the years 2012 to 2021, the bottom 60% of households are spending a greater portion of their takehome income on housing, transportation, and healthcare today than a decade ago, while the top 40% are actually spending less proportionally. This suggests things are getting worse for those on the bottom and better for those on top, but this isn’t a bulletproof metric, because it’s impossible to define the line between necessity and luxury. We need more metrics, so I’ll direct you to a few famous red flags.
From 2016-2021, the rate of malnutrition increased, at the same time as obesity increased.
From 2016-2021, the rate of homelessness increased, despite the rate of homeownership also increasing during that period.
Household debt appears to be down on average, but suicide rates are up (a lot!), and as you probably know, the CDC’s SPRA recommends economic stability as the first step to suicide prevention.
I can’t put a definitive number on it for the same reason you can’t quantify how good the handling is on a Miata, but I feel it is safe to say the US economy is doing great, but the majority of its people are not experiencing that prosperity.
Its only pessimism if you are rooting for the high average price. Seems like consumer optimism to me.
While low income incomes might be up, housing price increase have eaten most of those increases.
I agree for different reasons. The 50k car is becoming normalized. Consumers, as a whole, tend to want or need things and buy them. They might delay the new car purchase due to a higher price, but they’ll still buy. All manufacturers need to do is avoid jacking the price up too fast and they’ll have buyers. Given the recent increases in home prices, I’m guessing we’ll acclimate to higher prices pretty quickly.
And the 50k vehicle is about the same percentage of the average home price as the average vehicle/home in 1990 (~12%). With the increased longevity of vehicles and longer loan terms, it’s easy to see people making that purchase. (Whether houses and vehicles are both overpriced is a separate issue I won’t get into here.)
This is purely anecdotal, but I looked at the prices for Jeeps at my local dealership. They have a loaded Compass for $37,000 and a mostly loaded Wrangler for $60,000 with NOTHING between them price wise. Hey local Jeep dealership, I think you have a gap in your offerings that all of your competitors are happy to fill.
and a loaded 2023 Renegade for 22k (sticker 30k)……. yes loaded, and 4 wheel drive. Don’t say they don’t make anything when they do, just no one is buying them because Fiat Panda?
I don’t think you understood me. This dealership has a $23,000 gap in Jeep offerings, likely more than that because the $60,000 Wrangler Rubicon hasn’t arrived yet and is listed as a reservation. Who knows what it will really cost after dealership shenanigans? You need something in between an inexpensive rebadged Fiat and a very expensive off-road beast if you want to sell in volume.
That’s a shame about the MX-30. If the range extender had moved forward, I think it would have sold quite well. The RAV4 Prime seems to sell pretty well. Are they still moving forward with the MX-30 with the range extender in other markets? Based on the press releases early this year, it seemed like the engineering was pretty much finished.
Making it only available in California didn’t help sales figures, the Californian market has been transitioning to pure EVs faster than any other state and a PHEV with very limited electric range probably wasn’t compelling enough. Maybe they should have marketed it in states with lower EV adoption rates where hybrids can do better
I wanted the RE version badly and would have jumped at the chance for one. I am very disappointed by this news, but when they were more expensive than cars with 2x the range, that were more practical, it makes sense. I think the only EV that can survive in the low range and charging a premium is the Mini, and even then it’s not selling either.
Stellantis should sell a rebadged Jimney here at, I dunno, about $23k base? I know we’d all buy one, right?
I’ve wondered about this idea for years. How much would a mini wrangler cannibalize sales from the full size wrangler? Redo the Jimny a little to look more like a mini wrangler, call it the wranglette!
Right now you can pick up a Renegade for under 23k. so they do sell something to compete.
Have you actually stood next to a Jimny? I see a lot of folks on the internet wondering why these aren’t sold in the US, but I think most of those people have not seen how small they are in person, or the fact they they only put out 100HP. Living in San Diego I have seen a few in person and while they’re neat I just don’t see a market for them here.
so you mean…. they are just a new Samurai?
Precisely. And when people *were* buying Samurais in America, muscle cars had 225HP and fullsize cars weren’t all that big. A lot has changed since then.
4XE all the things!
Those who buy Jeeps for reasons other than overlanding or rock crawling are looking for a distinct (if not distinctly American) experience. One that, currently, includes poor fuel economy and questionable reliability.
You can’t fix the reliability issues in one swoop. And the 4XE might actually make those problems worse, but in the mean-time, you get to lead the entire SUV industry in fuel economy.
I’d have bought my Wrangler as a 4xe except for two critical failings: not available as a 2-door and not available as a manual.
I think if either of those had been available, I would have made the leap.
Ooh man – 4XE, manual, 2-door is my dream car.
I was very skeptical of the Bronco Sport at first, but I’ve been proven wrong by its success.
Jeep needs a Wrangler Sport, a compact CUV with Wrangler styling cues that can jumpstart its flagging small ute sales.
It’s a bit inexplicable to me that 20 years after the first Liberty, Jeep still hasn’t really figured out how to be successful with anything smaller than the Grand Cherokee that isn’t a Wrangler.
Isn’t the Renegade sort of what you are describing? It is a small SUV/CUV with Wrangler styling cues. I’m not sure why the Bronco Sport has worked and the Renegade hasn’t, but I’m not sure Jeep could make a better Wrangler Sport than the Renegade.
I wonder if Jeep’s best option is to just have 3 models (Wrangler, Gladiator, and Grand Cherokee). It seems like Jeep makes a decent profit on these vehicles, all of which sell well. Maybe Jeep’s best option is to be a lower volume semi-premium brand?
I really think the name has a lot to do with it too. If the Renegade was named Wrangler Sport, would it sell more? Not sure, but it couldn’t hurt anything to try with the next generation.
Also, I would keep the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer on your list as well. They sell a lot (at least locally they’ve eclipsed the Expedition entirely, and I see about as many as newer Suburbans/Yukons) and must be extremely profitable given their Ram underpinnings.
I like the idea of renaming the Renegade to Wrangler Sport, or at least something like that. Sport might be a problem since it is already a trim for the Wrangler, but they could come up with something.
I forgot about the Wagoneer; those seem to be popular and profitable, so may as well keep those. I guess a 4 model lineup would work:
It is a stretch to call that a 4 model lineup, but less model names might be a good thing.
The Bronco Sport is a surprisingly great car! As a daily I actually prefer it over its big brother and it has more than enough “off-road” chops for the average person.
If they roll out a hybrid Bronco Sport I would be very intrigued
Same, on top of the mileage boost, would be nice to be able to skip the 3-pot that’s on most Bronco Sports.
Jeeps have become expensive lifestyle swag. Jeep wranglers were once entry level SUVs and now they are so expensive that I could not afford to replace the one I have with a newer one.