Welcome back to Shitbox Showdown! Today is the third and final installment of my countdown to the Portland All-British Field Meet. We’ve got a couple of more modern British rides to look at today, but first, let’s see how yesterday’s voting turned out:
Lots of strong opinions on both sides of this one, but in the end, the Heartbeat of America in a Savile Row suit takes the win. Honestly, I could go either way on this one. They would both rile up the old guard at the show on Saturday, that’s for sure.
Speaking of which: Going to a car show is a good time, but you know what’s even better? Entering a car show. Walking the field and checking out the cars is so much more fulfilling when you can look over and see other people appreciating your ride at the same time. You’re part of the event, not just an attendee. Otherwise you’re like those people who go to the Renaissance Faire in normal street clothes when everyone else is in costume. Sure, it’s still fun, but you’re missing out on half of the experience.
To hopefully help save someone from feeling left out, I have found two British cars for sale right here in Portland that will get you through the gates at Portland International Raceway and into the rarefied company of British motorcar ownership. Both of them run and drive just fine. You could fly into town, buy one of these today, spend tomorrow detailing it and fixing a few things, and show up for day-of registration on Saturday morning. (If anyone is actually crazy enough to do this, please come find me at the show. I want to hear – and tell – your story.) Let’s see what we’re dealing with.
2005 Mini Cooper S – $3,990
Engine/drivetrain: Supercharged 1.6 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, six-speed manual, FWD
Location: Clackamas, OR
Odometer reading: 161,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep!
I’ve waited patiently for twenty years now for the new Mini to depreciate into my price range, and now that it has, I don’t need a car. And I know too much about them. Originally I thought, “Oh, it’s a BMW design; it will be nice and reliable compared to the old ones.” I have since had a 2000s BMW in my household, and I know better.
But the draw is still there. This is my kind of car: small, nimble, quick, and efficient. And from all reports, this is the model to get: the R53-chassis Cooper S, with a supercharged engine and six forward gears to play with. It’s still not Toyota-reliable, but its foibles are well-documented at this point, and not that hard to deal with. And I have to say, I love the color combination of this one.
This Mini has had a ton of work done recently, and the seller says it runs great. It also just passed its smog test, and has new registration, so no worries there. It does, however, have a rebuilt title for an undisclosed reason. That’s not an uncommon thing here in Oregon; insurance companies will total a car at the drop of a hat, and it’s not hard to get a salvage title once you repair the car. Take it to a different state, and you might have a little trouble, but that’s your own concern.
This car also has a serious aftermarket stereo, but unfortunately it eats up some of the meager cargo space. Me, I’d rather have the space; after all, carrying tools isn’t a terrible idea, and I’m not much of a subwoofer guy anyway. The stereo is only supposed to blow the bloody doors off.
1997 Land Rover Discovery – $3,000
Engine/drivetrain: 4.0 liter overhead valve V8, four-speed automatic, full-time 4WD
Location: Portland, OR
Odometer reading: 177,000 miles
Runs/drives? Sure does!
Want something a little more off-roady? I’ve got you covered. Here we have a Series I Land Rover Discovery, baby brother to the Range Rover SUV, based on the same chassis but less fancy. It has the same full-time 4WD system and the same Buick-derived Rover V8, but without some of the fancy toys. It’s still better-appointed than the brutally utilitarian Defender, but not a Footballers’ Wives luxury ride that never leaves the pavement like the Range Rover.
This Discovery is part of what sounds like a large collection (or hoard, depending on your viewpoint) owned by an enthusiast who liked to convert US-spec Land Rovers to British turbodiesels and re-sell them at a profit. It’s a weird hobby, and an even weirder business model, but apparently it worked for a while until he woke up one morning and just got sick of the whole thing. Read the lengthy sales listing for the whole story. The short version is that this car still has its V8, it still runs just fine, and has no warning lights on the dash, which is saying something. Usually the dash on these things is lit up like the Vegas strip.
It wouldn’t be a British car without a few issues, though, of course. The radio is dead, and one window is off-track. But on a complicated beast like this, if that’s really all it needs, that’s not bad at all. Cosmetically it still looks good, both inside and out, and the green/tan combination is a classic. It is missing the front bumper, but the seller says he has it “somewhere.”
This is perfect for this year’s ABFM, too – the featured marque is Land Rover. They always have a good turnout anyway, but this year is sure to be big for the off-road crowd. You could even make up a story about how it lost the bumper. They’d love it.
It seems funny to consider eighteen and twenty-six year old vehicles as “modern,” but when they’re sharing show grounds with 100 year old cars, “modern” becomes relative. But they’re still part of the heritage, even though Mini is now German and Land Rover is Indian. They still belong. Either one is a valid ticket to the show. Which one are you taking?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
One question. Is Lucas the Prince of Darkness banished from both of these fine units? Lol
.
NO! In the case of the Mini he just got more creative. See my other comment about the power steering pump fan going out. That’s a pure prince-of-darkness move right there!
but was it needed? (psp fan). mine was fried when i bought the car, and i drove six years without thinking about it, except when a new mechanic would note it. I fretted more about the on-again, off-again sunroof motor; that thing was a pita to crank shut with an allen key. With a four figure quote to fix it, i ended leaving it closed the last couple years.
I bought a cheap electric screwdriver with an Allen key bit that had permanent residence in my girlfriend’s Mini.
jeez, wish i’d thought of that. i sometimes have no common sense
about simple mechanical solutions. same car, i believe, that i broke a fiddly little fastener when changing the air filter or the battery: i moaned a bit about cheap plastic fasteners and german engineering, and refused to order a new cover with a working fastener. Took it to my mechanic months later for something else, and when he gave the car back to me, i noticed a ten-cent nut and bolt where the broken fastener had been. as i said, no common sense on my part. or too much gen-X “whatever.”Ha! Be kind to yourself, we all have those moments.
Well, the Mini is really a BMW product with British-derived styling. But in terms of engineering, it will be pure 2000s BMW/Bosch.
The Disco 1 is a period mix of Lucas and other suppliers such as Marelli and Bosch for generic electricals, like relays and such. Throw in some largely universal GM bits too, like the “stepper motor” (throttle position sensor). And TRW for some circuit boards. In other words, it’s a Euro-ized hodge-podge with British (Lucas) roots and some global bits thrown in. All in all, it’s no better or worse than a lot of contemporary European vehicles.
OK, so, the main OEM electricals are both British and Italian. But as long as you stick to them, they actually work. Maybe it’s because it’s such an unholy mash-up that their individual inherent evils work to cancel each other out?
Marelli alternators (and rebuilt Marellis) tend to last longer than the Bosch alternatives. Distributor caps from anyone other than approved Lucas or Marelli contract manufacturers inevitably fail early. OEM Lucas coils will far outlast OEM or aftermarket replacement Bosch coils.
The ECU for the fuel injection is uniquely Lucas. Its functional logic is very simple, and it has built-in diagnostic reporting that can display meaningful error codes on a tethered LED display without needing a scan tool. As long as the microcontroller chip doesn’t fail for some reason, there’s not a lot that can’t be fixed. Most everything else on the board is small standardized IC’s and discrete components. They rarely fail — whoever Lucas contracted to build them knew what they were doing. Errors are usually caused by faulty sensors or damaged wiring.
On the other hand, TRW made an electronic control board for the power windows which has a tendency to burn out a resistor and/or melt a solder joint which causes some or all windows to become erratic or stop working altogether.
It all tends to boil down to the fragmented supply chain that a lot of European automakers had to deal with at the time. Parts manufacturers and suppliers shifted from the ones the design engineers had originally worked with, and the “equivalents” didn’t always work out as well. That’s pretty much par for the course with a lot of European vehicles at that time. It meant that as parts wore out, even “OEM” replacements weren’t always up to the standards the originals, and it started a frustrating break-fix cycle until mechanics and owners could figure out what was going on and developed community knowledge of what to look out for. No matter the manufacturer, every owner of a European car of the early 2000’s has probably experienced some of the same headaches.
I believe the GEMS engine management system was developed by Lucas and SAGEM, a French electronics company. It has proven to be pretty darn reliable.
Man, I actually like both of these. If I pick one I’ll go Mini. BUT, if the salvage title is an issue, why not both?! Use the Mini as a track rat and tow it with the Landy! Nothing could go wrong here.
Edit: I just went and read the Land Rover’s CL ad. It’s, interesting. Def give it a look if you have a second.
Followed your tip. Ummm, wow. Interesting for sure. And I would def stay the f away from this disco.
Didn’t the 05 Mini S have a problematic gearbox? I could be mistaken, but it’s been in my head that the one you want is the 06.
Voted for it anyway as my sister’s awed me with the acceleration —then made me involuntarily blurt “Whee!” under braking. Felt like it would do an endo!
From what I understand, it’s the early 5 speed non-S that has the gearbox problems. Rover gearbox, as opposed to the Getrag 6 speed.
Only the auto-CVT, either 5 or 6 speed manuals are bulletproof. CVT is not only made of glass but also super expensive, 6-speed auto is almost as bad.
I wanted the Mini when they first came out, but hindsight on the 2000’s BMW workings has tarnished that a bit… And, I’ve previously owned a Disco 1 and know them inside and out — so Disco it must be for me. I even have a working OEM radio stored away, because the old Disco was suffering from terminal structural rust and I stripped out all kinds of useful (and often expensive) working bits before it was sent away.
Discoveries get a bit of a bum rap because Disco 1s tend to get conflated with Disco 2s. Disco 2’s are the result of BMW ownership, and suffer from a lot of the same issues that the Mini endures. With Discos, the answer is always Disco 1. You can even diagnose engine codes on a Disco 1 on the roadside with a handy LED display that’s hidden away under the passenger seat! Proprietary code readers aren’t required, unlike the successor Disco 2. Choose aftermarket parts wisely, and a Disco 1 can be as reliable as just about any non-Toyota from the 90s. Not everybody is enthusiastic about all the oversized fasteners and truck-like parts that underpin Land Rovers of this era, but I’ve always found them to be rather simple and straightforward to work on — just needful of some larger hand tools than you might typically have in the toolbox.
I was thisclose to buying an ’05 Cooper S for my daughter, but then thought the better of it (based upon what I read online about older Minis) and bought a 11 year newer one. I’ll still take the Mini over the Landy, though.
Minis are fun to drive, and the handling on her ’16 far outshines my ’22 Mustang GT. Time to buy some upgraded sway bars…
Discovery, purely for sentimental reasons. I had a 98 Discovery in law school. The engine exploded (or whatever) on a trip to the UP. Some friends towed it the 500 or so miles back to Chicago with their Escalade EXT. 10 hours smushed in the middle of the backseat frantically typing a paper on my Macbook and it was one of the most fun road trips of my life.
My decisions are often slapped around by emotion/nostalgia.
I voted Mini, and here’s why: New Year’s Eve,1979 I was busy ringing in the new year at The King’s Head & Eight Bells, which was a great little pub somewhere on the Thames River. As a visiting “Yank” I was treated really well and wound up feeling really “well.”
After midnight my friend had enough and headed back to the hotel. My new drinking buddies said, “It’s OK mate, we got him.” My friend left, and it was decided that I was going to join the gang on a run up to Trafalgar Square.
When we got outside they realized I couldn’t walk very well, so somebody found a shopping cart, stuffed me in, and wheeled me a block away to their Mini. They put me in the back, made me comfortable, and then we tried to take off. It wouldn’t start. So the driver calls out, “OK, let’s give a push!” I went to help, and the driver put his hand on my shoulder, “No mate, you’re a guest.” And he gently pushed me back.
Well, that little Mini started, and off we went to Trafalgar Square. And holee crap! It was the place to be!! Girls blew me kisses from passing cars (this NEVER happened in New York), and a few of them on the street hugged me, danced me around, and kept me on my feet! My guess is they were as drunk as I was.
So yeah, it was a big time and I owe a vote to that little car.
I love this kind of shit—an honest ‘thanks for sharing’ from me 🙂
Thank you TOSSABL, I appreciate this. I really had to cut this story down, but the best part–yes, better than drinking and pretty girls–was the way these young Londoners took care of me. I felt like that shopping cart was a baby carriage, and they really went out of their way to make sure I enjoyed the city. I think they took a lot of pride in their pub and themselves. And I’m impressed enough to have told this story many times over the past forty-four years.
A star well-earned. Cheers.
Make mine a Mini. If I’m going to have problems, I’d rather they were small ones.
I would take the mini, sell the overdone stereo, put the floor back in, and probably break even.
The Rover is pretty much off road it until it breaks, take the tags, and RLH.
The stereo is likely the result of the infamous HK amp blowing out, forcing you to replace the system.. however, I do see the stock head unit with the HK speakers (flat lip around speakers in door), and I’m not sure that you can replace just the amp w/out also doing the entire system.
Still worth it get the storage space back. Can sell off pieces to pay for the work.
Agreed. You need to put the seats down just to pick up a gallon of milk. Take all the cargo space you can get.
I’m not a coward, its the Land Rover for me!
Both vehicles scare me a little bit, and I am not keen on purchasing either one. However, the Disco seller sounds like a true character, so if I had to buy one or the other, I’d go with that one just for the opportunity to talk to the guy and be entertained for a while. I doubt one would be able to extricate oneself from a conversation with someone who writes that many words in a Craigslist ad in under two hours — no matter how much of a misanthrope the seller claims to be. Then I’d have to figure out how to get rid of the Land Rover that I had acquired in the process.
What’s in a name? That which we call a ESBMW
By any other name would smell as sweet
Non-traditional, but you could get a whole lot of emotional support from the miniaturized BMW. Plus, you could finally join your friends on Italian heist nights! It basically pays for it’s self
(Note: LR is pretty dope too)
I’ll take the Land Rover. They aren’t reliable, but they are cool. They may not handle well, but who cares about handling when you can drive over things. That this one is rust-free and generally works is awesome. I’m also giving bonus points to the owner of this thing (the original ad is worth reading). He seems a bit odd and cranky, but in a good way. Plus, his vehicles were purchased with the intention of modifying them to resell for profit, and it sounds like he was successful at this endeavor. Presumably he has the knowledge to determine which vehicles are worth saving and which aren’t. No $3,000 Land Rover is a good bet for reliability, but his vehicles seem like a better bet than the average Land Rover for sale at your local buy-here-repossess-here lot.
Neither one is particularly enticing, but the Disco is cheaper and doesn’t have a salvage title. Bonus is that I don’t already have an off-roader in [pieces and leaking on] my driveway.
Accepting that buying either of these cars will be an experience akin to the moments between when one pulls the pin on a hand grenade and said hand grenade detonates, we’ll take the Landie. The Mini looks like a cracking little car, but the rebuilt title gives pause. The Discovery is, as NSane noted elsewhere, in The Good Color, and the current owner’s familiarity with the breed seems like a plus.
All in all, Disco for the win.
Question: i thought R53’s came with a functional hood scoop for the supercharger?
i had a 2nd hand r50 for six years, and i always looked to the exhaust or the hood of other mini’s on the road to know if they were fancier than mine. i guess i was never into the culture, i just liked climbing curvy hills.
This one has the scoop. The first pic in the actual CL ad shows it more clearly.
Neither promises joys that exceed the headaches. Pass.
“go to the Renaissance Faire”
Hard pass. Those people are insufferable.
Anyways, I chose the Mini. These are both terrible purchases, but at least the Mini will be fun to drive when it works.
Sorry we’re having fun in a way you don’t like.
You should be! /s
I’m friends with many of y’all, but I happily stay away during that kind of play time.
Land Rover. You’re gonna be spending more time underneath either of these cars than you will spend driving them, so I’m going with the seller who seems like they have some good stories to tell.
I was sort of on the same page. I decided if you’re going to be under the vehicle, under the hood; just go with the easier one to get under and more space under the hood…
I voted Mini. At least it has a JL Audio sub and not a Kicker or Rockford Fosgate. And the sub looks like its a W3.
I voted for the Mini, but I would need to see the front strut towers before pulling the trigger on it.
I’ve driven an R53– in much worse shape than this one, with a few warning lights on the dash for good measure–and it was an absolute blast. Yeah I know it’ll be a maintenance nightmare, but it’s not like Land Rovers are exactly known for being bulletproof either. Mini for me!
Mine hasn’t been too bad on maintenance, you just have to keep in mind that to do anything you basically have to remove the front half of the car, other than that its good.
I’m not bitter about not being able to drive mine all summer at all, its fine. It was due for a supercharger service anyway. Stupid failed camshaft and toasted head gasket.
Voted mini, but had already forgotten about the rebuilt title. I would say it’s too much for what it is with a rebuild, but I do not see a world in which I would intentionally buy a land rover so neither is the answer today, but mini is the less bad option to me I guess.
I want to go Mini so badly because it’s also my kind of car-I’m a hot hatch aficionado and I too love the combination of toss-able, useful, and efficient. But the unexplained rebuilt title is giving me pause, and the Rover is in the ideal color combo. Sigh.
As a current Cooper S owner, this was an easy choice. Ours has been reliable and a ton of fun. The missing bumper and window don’t seem like a big deal, but the Landry won’t be anywhere close to as much fun to drive. Mini all day and twice on Sunday