Bonjour, Autopians! Today’s Shitbox Showdown features two French cars, and I’ll explain why in just a minute. But first, yesterday we looked at two red-blooded American performance cars with five-speed manuals – let’s see which one you preferred:
SHO ’nuff. The factory hot-rod Taurus is the clear winner. I think you’re right; that Camaro just isn’t very special. I’d still love to have a 3rd generation F-body, but I think I’d be contrarian and look for an early one with the Iron Duke four-cylinder, just for the hell of it. Assuming any of them haven’t been swapped out by now, that is.
Now then: I have a programming note for you before we get started today. I’ll be gone next week, and the early part of the week after. My wife and I are taking a long-overdue vacation, and spending a week in Paris. Don’t worry; I’m leaving the Showdown in good hands. You can expect at least a couple of different guest hosts while I’m away. I’ll be keeping tabs, to make sure they adhere to the high standard of excellence I’ve so painstakingly established here, and posting any random cool car-related stuff I see in France to the Discord along the way. And if everything works out the way I plan, I’ll have a fun car story to report on when I get back.
It only seems fitting, then, that I leave you with a pair of French cars to discuss and vote on while I’m away. And here they are.
1985 Renault Alliance convertible – $5,500
Engine/drivetrain: 1.7 liter overhead cam inline 4, three-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Bartonville, IL
Odometer reading: 34,000 miles
Runs/drives? Great, they say
Okay, you got me; this isn’t exactly a French car. It was built in Wisconsin. It’s a French design, and a French nameplate, and that will have to do. The Renault Alliance was AMC’s entry into the compact car market, an Americanized variant of the Renault 9. The basic body, chassis, and engine were Renault designs, but the interior was designed by legendary AMC designer Dick Teague, and it shows. It looks very much like other American Motors offerings inside. Those seats, by the way, are very comfortable, much nicer than most small cars at the time.
The Alliance launched with a 1.4 liter version of the same pushrod four-cylinder engine that Renault had been using since just after the French Revolution, but in 1985, the new overhead-cam 1.7 liter engine became available, and this car is so equipped. It’s a vast improvement in refinement and power to be sure, but it’s still not a miracle-worker, especially through a sleepy three-speed automatic. I’ve driven a manual-transmission Renault Encore (the Renault 11-based hatchback version of this car) and it was on par with most ’80s small cars, which means an automatic version is probably about as exciting as watching beige paint dry with C-SPAN on in the background. This one is said to run perfectly, at least, probably owing to its complete lack of miles.
A convertible top was also a new option for ’85, designed by fabled car-beheader ASC. I always thought the Alliance made a particularly handsome convertible; this car has those tidy mid-80s European lines to it, and it works well without a top. It may not be able to put much more than a stiff breeze in your hair, but at least it looks sharp doing it.
Unfortunately, perpetually-broke AMC was really operating on a shoestring budget by this time, slapping cars together with wood screws and baling wire just to get them out the door. That indifferent build quality, combined with just enough European strangeness to confound many mechanics, meant most Alliances met an early demise. They’ve nearly all been gone for decades now. This one may seem expensive, but just try finding another one for sale in this condition. It’s cheap for a car that will draw crowds at any car gathering.
1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16 – $2,695
Engine/drivetrain: 1.9 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Yakima, WA
Odometer reading: 145,000 miles
Runs/drives? “She rips,” according to the seller
Peugeot wasn’t having a whole lot more luck in the US market in the ’80s. Its 505 model was an also-ran among European cars, as nice as it was, and Peugeot never saw fit to bring over any of its supposedly excellent small cars. In 1988, the front-wheel-drive Pininfarina-styled 405 was launched to great fanfare; it was a hit in Europe, and the American press raved about it – but nobody here bought it.
If you’re going to track down one of the few 405s that reached these shores, this is the model to get: the 150 horsepower twin-cam Mi16. We have exactly zero information on this car’s mechanical condition except for one effusive sentence from the seller, but you can tell a lot from that sentence: it runs and drives well, they’re aware of Peugeot’s distinguished rally heritage, and chances are it hasn’t led a particluarly easy life. But that rally heritage may help out in that regard; after all, Peugeots are famous for surviving not only rally stages, but also rural roads in Africa. A young enthusiastic American driver shouldn’t faze it.
It’s a little rough around the edges cosmetically, but not terrible. I wish we had better photos to judge by. Ordinarily, I would skip an ad with such a terse description and so few low-quality photos, but Peugeot 405s aren’t exactly for sale on every street corner. I had to work with what I could find. Still, I would like to have a look at the interior. I fear it’s trashed.
The biggest problem I can see with this car is that it’s an orphan. Peugeot is still around, part of the great Stellantis empire these days, but it hasn’t sold cars in the US since 1991. You won’t be able to walk into Autozone and pick up parts for this one. RockAuto seems to have some of the basics, but major repairs when it needs them might be a problem.
French cars have always been outliers in the US market, but those who know them seem to love them. Granted, one of these is only half-French, but I bet even the humble Alliance has its fans. Were you to add a little European flavor to your garage, which would you choose? Choose, discuss, debate – and I’ll see you all when I get back!
(Image credits: Renault – Craigslist seller; Peugeot – Facebook Marketplace seller)
I will take the drop top well running low mileage Alliant. If I need to retreat from my local American Muscle Car goons I will take the better running low mileage car. Anyone know if French cars run faster in retreat? He’ll both suck a decent drop top cruiser like the original Miata without the power, style, and class.
First of all, I think the proper translation would be “boîte A merde”.
I’d go 405 personally. The MI16 is the punchier version, and the optimist in me says it only needs a wash. Parts will be easy to source from Europe, just as I can easily buy Datsun parts from the US.
I’m not really a convertible fan, but the sheer ’80s glory of that Renault and the condition its in is what makes it a winner for me. The Poozh looks like it’d be a good hoon companion, but I feel like I’d actually enjoy the normal operation of the Renault more. I feel like the price is fair, given the condition and mileage.
Internet bucks to The French Convertible.
Two of my uncles who worked for Jeep had Encores. For like 3 years, I think. They absolutely disintegrated.
Much like the vehicles they built huh?
Yeah the XJ is famously known for its short life. Wtf?
I’ll take the Poozho.
You’re gonna love Paris, they’ve got an Eiffel Tower just like the original in Vegas!
Manges tes morts Mark Tucker.
Way harsh, my dude.
I feel much better about spending $2700 on the Peugeot than spending $5500 on the Renault. I could have fun with the 405 for a little while, and if it broke…Oh well. $5500 could buy a much better convertible to cruise around in.
Whoever picks the Alliance over anything, even a rock, needs their head examined.
Hey I am not crazy my mom had me tested.
Maybe the test was expired?
LOL
Joke’s on you, I picked the Alliance and both my psychiatrist and psychologist say I’m doing great.
That headline has me in stitches. Well done, baiseur de mamans.
I had an Alliance hatch, and I have to say it was a pleasure to drive. I got it used, and really didn’t have the scratch to maintain it, though I tried. Fortunately, before I drove it into the ground, it was hit by another car and insurance paid me all I’d invested. But it was a pleasure to drive, and a pleasure to sit in with that huge greenhouse.
I guess I should accept the drop-top Alliance for the weekend cruiser status it would have but it’s too big a piece of merde for me to accept. The Pug would break me, but it would be glorious while it lasted. Good looking car, manual, rare, interesting engine – it would be worth putting some effort into it.
I’ve driven one of those Renault’s, not something I want to revisit.
The Renault is a smarter choice. Easier to work on and find parts for, and apparently better taken care of. But the problem is I don’t like anything about it.
The Peugeot is like the hot crazy girl that you know you shouldn’t get tied up with. Super fun to drive, sounds great, and unicorn like sexy shape and lines. But running it as a daily will give you a headache and bleed you dry. Parts are unobtainium aside from importing, and you better join a forum and learn how to work on it yourself.
So do I choose with my heart or my head? I’ll take the Peugeot this time. And keep it fun. Take it out only once in awhile, and slowly learn to tinker with it and fix it up. I’d be hard pressed to find another one.
Yeah I have driven a few of the crazy bitches. Never came out of it anyway but poor and regretful.
In the mid 90’s I had a girlfriend who had an Alliance, it was all I could do to keep it running, she junked it and got a Plymouth Horizon, marginally better, she later dumped me and got a new Civic
Women constantly want to trade up in everything. Except for exercise and diet plans.
In Metro Detroit, circa early-mid 1980’s, this was really hot stuff.
It was American Made, and it was a trim little car.
I can’t tell you how strange that era was, particularly if you were a teen.
I remember in the Mid 70’s everyone complaining about the cars, how they had no power, etc.
But but the later 70’s, Detroit was on edge. I mean the people. No one knew what plant was going to close next. And when the plant closes, everything goes to hell.
The cars were downsized, to be sure, but we didn’t have “small” cars.
But in the early 1980’s we started to get those small cars. And I can remember being at 13 and Southfield, behind a J car, and my dad raving about the styling, and he said “GM has a Winner!”
So cars like this, forgetting for the moment if they were any good, they looked good, and they gave some hope.
My parents bought the FIRST J-car that showed up at the local Pontiac dealer, a silver J2000. Hatchback and a 5-speed trans(!), even had a sunroof! People really thought that car was going to be a homerun for The General.
Biggest POS the family ever had until I had the misfortune of buying a ’97 Contour new with a V6 and stick.
Those are two cars that wrote checks the build quality could never cash.
The best thing about 70s American cars was people finally saying screw the union and the cars that can’t get off the lot before they breakdown I am buying a Japanese import. For less than 50% of the cost you got a car that lasted 4 times as long. And it was just a different form of ugly.
Absolutely the 405. Aside from the fact that you couldn’t pay me to own a convertible, the Peugeot would be more fun to drive at half the price. No brainer.
My best friend inherited a beige ’85 Renault Alliance coupe from his Grandma when he got his license in ’96. Since he was the first of our friend group to have both a license and a car, that little crapwagon was all of our tickets to freedom. As such, I have a huge soft spot in my heart for Renault Alliances, so I had to vote for it.
There’s a lot one would put up with when it’s a sunny-weekend drop-top. Just ask any owner of an old Triumph.
The Renault, proven being assembled by duct tape and staples by AMC using a mix of GM/Ford/Chrysler parts, might also prove the easier to fix with a hammer and some wood glue.
“…the new overhead-cam 1.7 liter engine became available, and this car is so equipped.”
Ah. Good to know I can safely contemplate Alliance ownership while maintaining as little parts compatibility as possible across my fleet.
I love Peugeots and used to daily a 505 Turbo S; in this case, however, condition speaks loudly.
I have owned (and totaled – thanks drunk guy in a massive Caprice) an Alliance. Even back then I knew it wasn’t a great car, but it was good basic transportation while it lasted. Even with the convertible it can’t be a great car.
But I’m still voting for it over the Pug.
Now I’ve been down this road before and I know how it ends…it ends in tears my friends.Those Alliance brakes will lock up faster than you can imagine, leaving you with a pretty little triangle symbol stamped in your forehead…neither one of them will be running a year from now. But you’ll still love them. They will pry your wallet open like every other mistress has in the past. Honestly I’d take both and say goodbye to a comfortable retirement. I felt it when they were both new and I feel it today…add a LeCar to the mix and I might have an orgasm.
Wouldn’t it be a rhomboid-shaped stamp on the forehead? I guess it depends on the angle of the impact. Other than that I am not second guessing any of your comment.
I’m 6′ tall and only a partial imprint was possible at the time even if I was still quite bendy.
It may be a wretched car, but I’m voting AMC.
I really want to like the Alliance; it’s an attractive little car with great aspirations, but it’s an eternal also-ran. Questionable maintenance notwithstanding, I’ll take the full-on Euro experience of the Peugeot. Heck, if I could find obscure Land Rover parts and keep an old Disco I running, the Peugeot shouldn’t be all that hard…
But still, props to anyone choosing the Alliance. It’s sort of an automotive Rodney Dangerfield.
The 405 is, very objectively, the better choice.
And yet, here I am about to vote on the Alliance.