Welcome back to another Shitbox Showdown! Today, we’re looking at a couple of vehicles that are as American as rock n’ roll and free trips to the salad bar. But before we do that, let’s see which German junior executive express you chose:
Well, there ya go, S.W. Hopefully someone who saw this will want to make that Benz their very own. Or if not, maybe they’ll tell two friends, and they’ll tell two friends, and so on, and so on…
Now, as you know, Valentine’s Day is coming up, which brings to mind candy hearts, flowers, and – well – “amorous activities.” When I was younger, it always seemed that certain vehicles lent themselves better to such activities than others. Personally, my only such experience in a car back then happened in a Chevy Cavalier Z24, when I was a lot more limber, but vans and Camaros always seemed like popular choices among my friends. (Hey, sometimes I have a theme for these in mind, and sometimes the theme finds me. Just roll with it.) So just in case any of you felt like revisiting some episode of your misspent youth this Valentine’s Day, I have found two possible vehicles for you. Let’s check them out.
1979 Dodge B200 Van – $4,800
Engine/drivetrain: 318 cubic inch overhead valve V8, three-speed automatic, RWD
Location: San Mateo, CA
Odometer reading: 100,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yes, but needs some work
All three of the Big Three made vans in the ’70s, but somehow the Dodge vans were the cool ones. I mean, Ford and Chevy vans had songs written about them, but they couldn’t out-cool the Mopar vans. And among the Dodges, there is a hierarchy of cool: short-wheelbase vans are cooler than long-wheelbase. Take a “shorty” Dodge van with a V8, stick some mags on it, cut some porthole windows in the back, and you’ve got a party on wheels.
This bright orange van has seen some things, but it’s still pretty solid. The front seats need repuholstering, but I bet upholstery kits are available. The seller says it does run and drive, but loses power at high speeds; this has been diagnosed as a clogged catalytic converter, and that certainly sounds plausible, though it could also be carb trouble. Either way, it’s fixable, though more easily if you take it out of California.
In back, it looks like a partial or failed conversion; cheap ’70s paneling lines the walls and dirty shag carpet covers the steel floor. It’s all grubby, and it could all use redoing. It has a couple of largish windows in back, so it’s not a dark cave like a lot of vans, but you’d better hang some curtains if you want any privacy.
I love the color of this van, but it’s begging for some stripes or a mural or something to break up that sea of orange. And finding a matching pair of mags to go with either the front or the rear would go a long way. The price sounds a little steep, based on what I remember vans like this going for over the years, but there are fewer and fewer of them every year, so it’s not likely to get any cheaper.
1988 Chevrolet Camaro RS – $5,200
Engine/drivetrain: 2.8 liter overhead valve V6, four-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Redwood City, CA
Odometer reading: 52,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep!
I’m just going to come right out and admit it: I love third-generation Camaros. I have since they first debuted. I know they have all sorts of reputations and connotations, some earned and some not, but whatever is cool to you when you’re 10 is always going to be cool to you, to some degree. I make no apologies for it.
This particular Camaro is actually really nice. It’s clean, freshly-repainted, not trashed inside, has low miles, and the seller says it runs beautifully. The cigarette lighter on the floor tells me it may not smell as pristine inside as it looks, but that’s why we have Febreeze. There always has to be a catch, though; you know that. With this Camaro, it’s this:
Yep. It’s a V6, the dreaded 2.8, and an automatic. I mean, it could be worse; a few years earlier Chevy offered the Camaro with an “Iron Duke” four-cylinder, but it’s still not the most desirable power source, especially for something that looks like this. And I’ve always been amused by the amout of space between the engine and the radiator in these V6 Camaros. Look at that photo above. You could practically stand inside the engine compartment to work on it.
As cool as these cars are (to me; if you disagree, just humor me a little while longer), they never let you forget how cheaply they were built. I have yet to see a second- or third-generation Camaro with the three-piece rear spoiler where all three pieces are perfectly aligned; that streak continues unbroken here. And I swear I can hear the windows rattling just looking at these photos. Oh well.
So there they are, two of the most quintessentially American vehicles I could find that weren’t pickup trucks. Which one makes you feel young again?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
That van has seen some things…
Just surprised anyone actually got a 2.8 to 52,000 miles….
I’ve stared at those Camaro pictures for a long time like they were a Where’s Waldo book, and I just can’t find the cigarette lighter mentioned in the text. Do you mean the open 12V power port? Does anyone actually light cigarettes using the little pop-out heating element things? I’d suspect that the power port is more likely used to charge a cell phone or other electronics. Or maybe I’m just missing what you’re seeing.
A Camaro reeking of nicotine sounds pretty unappealing, but it still probably smells better than that disgusting van (who knows what was smoked in there?), so that’s the direction I’m leaning.
Red Bic lighter on the floor.
I also don’t see a Bic lighter anywhere. Are you referring to the red stripe in the Camaro emblem on the floormat?
I may be looking at the wrong thing, but I’m not seeing a Bic lighter.
I do see a red, white, and blue logo design on the floor mat, though.
Oh, maybe that’s what I’m seeing. I assumed it was a lighter sitting on the floor. But come on, with the Camaro demographic…
I grew up in a Camaro-demographic-adjacent environment so I can assure you there wouldn’t be a red Bic on the floor anyway. There would instead be an empty Carlton Super Windproof C2 on the floor with its embossed leather pouch last having been seen circa 2005 but most likely still under one of the seats in there somewhere.
That’s so spot-on I had to give you a thumb. If the owner was female, the lighter sleeve would be silver with turquoise stones inset.
It’s Moby MoPar fer me.
I’ve had several 318s and they treated me well. Lots of versatility here: you can work out of this, live out of it on a bad week, and collect any number of voluminous roadside treasures.
Also, if you run it into a forest (it’s bin done) nobuddy’s gonna shoot you fer deer meat!
Who the fuck would buy a Camaro without T-tops? That’s like the best part of the car 😀
So, I chose the van.
Also, the 4th gen Camaro has the engine tucked under the windshield like a van, but no doghouse to access it from inside 🙁
At least the 3rd gen has the engine under the hood!
Question really is if you want to have a project furnishing the inside of that van.
Or if you want a project throwing the Camaro’s drivetrain out in the trash and popping in a V8.
Camaro for me. Swap in a V8 and a bluetooth capable headunit and I’ll be happily cruising to a V8 burble and Dokken.
The Camaro might get you some action, but you aren’t going to get very far in the car itself: too awkward for any serious or sustained fun.
The Van is ideal for room and comfort, but will need work to be ready. That’s necessary anyway, because having a van like this without a Frank Franzetta or Rush inspired art piece on it is a crime! Also, police will likely follow you like you are going to commit a crime in this van anyway, it’s an archetypal creeper ride.
My personal vote for a… romance car is a Lincoln Continental. Whatever year the ride it, they have big back seats, usually a convenient and comfy bench style in my experience. Great for fogging up the windows and watching the snow fall.
I already have a queen size air mattress (in fact I have two) that would easily fit in the back of the van. Might even throw them both in the back for the ultimate air ride suspension.
Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. Need I say more.
Hey, Mark, on a completely unrelated note. As I’m sure you and probably 99% of Autopians are aware, New York’s Fashion Week starts this Friday. You should try to kick it off right with a couple of designer edition cars. Should be able to find two out of all the Bill Blass Lincolns, Eddie Bauer Fords, LL Bean Su-BA-roos, and such.
I was not aware of that, but that’s an excellent Friday theme idea! I’ll see what I can find.
“I was not aware of that…”
I’m shocked I tell you! Shocked!!! An Autopian who is not a dedicated follower of fashion?!?! Inconceivable!!! I bet David has had this week marked on his calendar since last year’s Fashion Week! His hubcap headwear is the epitome of haute couture.
Such a hard choice. I went with the van. The work to address the power at highway speed would not be too bad. From there the customization would be fun.
Camaro for the win, the expensive body work and decent interior,or perhaps with those miles, this is just pristine original paint. at any rate, I do recall these with TBI 305’s more often than the 2.8, but even that would seem slow compared to anything we can get now.
I would still rather take this Slomaro over the tetanus Van that looks to have been just pulled from a spot down by the river. I would give the slow thing to my daughter with the promise to make it faster for her if she wants it to be and if she keep up grades and the rest of the usual dad warnings and consequences.
I always kind of wanted to get one of those last gen 3.8 V6 drivetrains from the Camaro and see if the GN1 Grand national parts could be added and made to work with a stand alone computer or something.
For the stated purpose, van every day and twice on Sunday.
I’d never pick a traditional van, I hate the driving position and the legroom-robbing “doghouse”.
All that Camaro needs is a crate 350 and a 4L60E. Three grand and the “slowness” is completely fixed. I would imagine that every gen-3 V6 Camaro in good condition will eventually get some kind of V8 swap.
you would probably need a rear axle too, but those are out there too for not a huge cash outlay. And if you are thinking a carb, you would do better with a 700R4 with a TV cable tot he linkage. the 4l60 will require a stand alone computer otherwise.
Van wins this one. Replace the cat, and tune the thermoquad! Mural it up, throw in a couch and cruise.
The mismatched big n little combo works for the 70s, but somebody should tell this guy the big goes on the back, not the front.
well, junk the thermoquad and install a Holley Sniper kit, then at least it would be sort of reliable to start after sitting for any length of time.
If you kit out that van with some cheap amenities, you could sell it for $100k as a “custom overlanding rig”
Dodge for me. Just needs a bed, a fridge, zig-zag stripes in various shades of brown, yellow, and orange, a massive steam cleaning, a quadraphonic sound system and it’s ready to crank up Edgar Winter’s Frankenstein and cruise back to 1979.
You just got me to play Frankenstein.
Van, no question. You’re dropping double what you spent to make the Camaro halfway livable, because it’s not a question of if but when that 2.8/auto combo decides to show why it’s hated besides the lack of power. Let’s just say I hope you have a machine shop that mills heads cheap.
But that Dodge Van? 318, TF727, name a more iconic or bulletproof combination. You can’t. Seriously, you really can’t, because Chrysler kept to that recipe with no significant changes for over 40 years. The 5.2 in your ’92 Ram? Same motor, same trans, just with TBI and decades of improvements. You could throw a rod and hit a replacement motor with it before the oil spray stops.
But you don’t need a motor. You need to fix a vacuum leak and a 2″ or 2.5″ universal catalytic converter. (And probably a water pump leak. It’s a 318 thing.) Want to make that van do wheelstands? You can order a ready-made kit for that complete from Summit.
The price is definitely a bit high, but not irrationally high. What you’re paying for here is the body and chrome, which looks like it’s been redone correctly at some point. (No way it’s original; there’s no sun fade on the top, and no chrome flaking off.)
Who the hell would sink money into the V6 and not just swap it with a SBC or a LS? Sure, that ain’t exactly free, but it ain’t exactly expensive. I’d just be looking for some cheap SBC and tranny combo cheap off craigslist and throw that sucker in there and run it until something blows.
I ha a 88 with the 2.8 auto and it was a dog Maybe as a swap out for a better drive train.
The Van could be done as a home work van with looks. Fix the mechicals then maybe a 3rd seat.
My vote went Van
I’ll take that van and an airbrush kit.
*And someone who knows how to use an airbrush.
“FREE CANDY”
ヽ(͡◕ ͜ʖ ͡◕)ﾉ ( Just kidding!!!)
Not possessing a mullet . . . . . Dodge Van 100%.
Ugh I love Camaros but this generation, while attractive, is painfully slow. I think even the V8 was well under 200 horsepower and these things are portly. I’ve often seen the RS Camaros referred to as the Really Slow trim…these days you can get the 330 horsepower 3.6 liter V6 in them, which is a great engine. But that wasn’t always the case.
That being said I’ll still take the Camaro. I’d do an LS swap to give it some actual cajones then drive it up from the Bahamas. We can go to shore to get some Def Leppard T shirts too. Hop in, Autopians, I’ve got 1984 in the cassette player. PANAMA! Panamaaaaaaaa
The 2.8 was rated at 135HP when running (which wasn’t often.) The 305 was rated at a whole 170HP and the 350 got you a staggering 230HP.
you missed the TPI 305, it was 205HP, but long runners made it run out of steam at about 4,000 rpm. not that it matter much, the 88 Mustang was 215, the Gran National was gone, but the TTA the following year barely made 250HP. HP was still tough to find even in the late 80’s . but the torque of the v8’s kept them fun enough to want to buy.
As a team 3rg Gen guy (owner of an ’89 Firebird, formerly owned a ’91 Camaro), I can’t vote against the Camaro, even though it’s pretty overpriced for a V6 RS. The nose on that generation of the Dodge van was just not to my taste.
And the ’91 Camaro I used to own was similarly optioned, but with the 3.1 V6 and the 5-speed, which may have been underpowered but it was still VERY fun. The lighter engine gave those Camaros a bit more balance so you can toss them into corners a bit harder. Plus without the t-tops, it’s way more stable (My Camaro didn’t have them, but my Firebird does and you can definitely feel the difference).
And no, a mullet is not required to drive one, thankyouverymuch. Us Gen X’ers had to get jobs at some point.
Fellow ’89 Firebird owner here. This is an easy choice really. So many of these 3rd-gen F-bodies were thrashed to within an inch of their life, that finding one this clean at this point in any spec is a treat. These things used to be everywhere.
Plus you get that distinctive 60 degree Chevy six rumble. If power is that much of an issue for you, just throw in an SBC or LS.
Gimme details on your Firebird! My ’89 is a base model with the 305 and a factory 5-speed. Obligatory leaky t-tops, too.
I also love 3rd gen Camaros, but this particular example is about as exciting as dry white toast. I’d be on board if it was cheaper since it needs a 350 or LS swap to make it worth keeping around.
That van fucks. Hence why the carpet is stained, but you can rip that out and put in something fresh. Take your date down to the river this Valentine’s Day!
The van for me. I’d convert it into a living space and also a plug-in hybrid with solar panels on the roof. If the gasoline engine fails, I’ll still have a way to run it, albeit for shorter distances, and whatever traction battery I bury into the floor could run all of the appliances in the living space as well.
The Camaro is both V6 and automatic, so that gives it an automatic “hell naw” from me. If it were a manual, it would be a “maybe” and if it were V8 and manual, “fuckin’ A man, hells yeah”!
Exactly. Plus, the van has 50% more slot mags. Not as good as 100% more slot mags, but hey. Slot mags. They make everything cooler
“If the gasoline engine fails”
Everything can fail, of course, but the 318 is a reliable workhorse of an engine. Along with the 360, it was the Mopar no-frills V-8 option for roughly four million years.
I would be inclined to take the van and install a Holley 390 (very small 4bbl) with electric choke and drive it until the mismatched wheels fall off – after doing something, anything to address that heinous interior. 🙂
Ooh, this was a good one! Peak Dajiban in The Good Color vs a clean low-mileage F-body!
Either would be the right choice, but the Camaro wins because it’s ready to go right now after a brisk interior detail … and I’d keep an eye out for LS donors.
So, I do love orange, but that is a lot of orange. And I do love that generation Camaro, but V6 AND automatic? Ouch.
Still, I have to go with the Camaro. I can’t quite shake the feeling of some shady guy stalking people in vans of that vintage. That trope got beat to death in movies and jokes, and for whatever reason it has stuck with me.
Let’s grow a mullet and smash some Budweisers!