Don’t get me wrong; I love golden-era Mercedes. I put over 100,000 miles on an old W126 S-class and can still hear the click of the door shutting and the wail of the ten-cent seat belt buzzer on this car that cost as much as two and a half Cadillacs when new.
Regardless, I have to question the insane pricing I’ve seen lately on diesel W123 Benzes, particularly wagons. These were very basic things often festooned with vinyl seats (sorry, “MB Tex”) and a zero-to-sixty time of days – even my V8 420SEL was not fast by any stretch of the definition. I know there’s a charm that’s hard to put a price on, but if one must, it wouldn’t be six figures.
That’s right; earlier this year a 1982 300TD wagon sold for nearly $100,000 on Bring A Trailer. Quite fetching in a nice shade of green, with low miles and in excellent nick, it was undeniably a fine example, but there are likely about a hundred cars you’d rather spend that kind of coin on. Also, the beauty of the W123 is that you can get a 150,000-mile example for a fraction of that cost with industrial upholstery and bulletproof switches that show virtually no wear.
Besides, there are other choices for ultra-slow early eighties diesels I found that we’ll choose from today that will blow the Mercedes away in terms of comfort and luxury. Are they perfect? No. Are they as durable as the Mercedes? Well, no again but you could get both for less than the auction commission on that $100K Malaise Benz.
Before we begin, I really have to question the sanity of our readers once again. Yesterday, Mercedes Streeter posted a Shitbox battle between two once-high-dollar European off-roaders that are now essentially ticking time bombs of deferred maintenance. Surprisingly (to me at least), the always-underrated Volkswagen Touareg was soundly beaten by… a Land Rover Discovery?
Sure, I know about the VW Group electrical issues and such, but more than half of the pics our own Disco-owning Rob Spiteri tends to post of his little Land Rover show it on a flatbed. I haven’t seen one moving under its own power in a decade. There are two in my neighborhood, both at the back of the driveway and unregistered (one house has two newer Range Rovers in front of it, proving that some people don’t learn). The Discovery does look cool, of course, and is apparently great off-road, but you’ll have a hell of a time getting from suburbia to the wilderness. To each his own, I guess.
Back to today’s battle of the Non-Benz Diesel Malaise Luxury Cars.
1982 Peugeot 505 Diesel – $3,500
Engine/drivetrain: 2.3 Liter 4 Cylinder Diesel making 71 HP, 5-speed manual
Location: Tarzana, California.
Odometer reading: 239,202 miles
Operational status: “good running condition”
If there’s any car that can rival the Mercedes for durability, it’s an old diesel Peugeot. Their reputation was proven by the fact that they were common sites in Africa where there are few roads, and used as taxi cabs in Manhattan in the early eighties when they had, well, no real roads. Also, if anyone says that you can’t have a luxobarge ride and road manners in one car, they haven’t driven or ridden in a Peugeot. These were great alternatives to the much more expensive W123 back in the day, and compared favorably to other yuppie fodder diesel options like a similar-sized 5 series, Volvo 240 and Audi 5000.
You can see for yourself with this 1982 Peugeot 505 Diesel in Tarzana, California. It’s a rare five-speed, so as the ad states the “performance” will be better than the typically-ordered automatic, meaning this 71 horsepower car will move like a quick glacier and not a standard glacier. The location says that rust shouldn’t be an issue; the hearing-aid-beige Pug benefits from a “decent repaint that is now peeling off” which has one questioning the “decent” part of the repaint.
Considering the age and miles the inside of this thing has held up quite well; the power sunroof no longer offers any sun but the ad doesn’t say if the niceties on display like the power windows, Kenwood cassette deck or air conditioning work. Even if that A/C functions, moving that lever up to “two snowflakes” will probably get you what feels like a hamster blowing over an ice cube and half of the engine’s meager power used to spin the compressor.
Sadly, Peugeot never really did find an audience here in the States. After selling a mere 4,200 cars in 1990, they pulled the plug on the US market the next year. The W123 is such an obvious choice, so if you’re trying to make a statement with your veggie oil conversion project, why not make a unique statement?
1980 Oldsmobile Toronado Diesel – $2,000
Engine/drivetrain: 5.7 Liter V8 Diesel making 105 HP, 3-speed automatic
Location: Coats, North Carolina
Odometer reading: 68,000 miles
Operational status: “runs…wouldn’t take much to get it going”
A “class action lawsuit” diesel-powered Toronado will make a different statement entirely, and to many of you that statement is a “wretched unreliable piece of shit.” Hey, I get it, but hear me out. I know that the 1978-85 GM oil-burning 350 V8 was based on a gas motor, but it was not “merely converted” to diesel as the wags will say. I’m also aware that after getting sued by customers they replaced engines free of charge with modified head bolts that supposedly still broke. However, a little research will show that GM (in their expected infinite wisdom) saved a few bucks on these things by not adding a simple water separator to take that incompressible liquid out of the fuel, so that combined with crappy diesel fuel in the late seventies resulted in many of the head bolt failures of this infamous motor. I swear there are fans online that claim these things can be made to run reliably and strong, or as strong as a 105-horsepower 5.7-liter engine in a two-ton car can.
I’m not about to say that a GM Diesel with better head bolts will rival a Mercedes, nor am I claiming that a 1980 Toronado is anywhere close to the pinnacle of the vaunted 1966 version of this front-drive Oldsmobile coupe. I am saying that for the two grand being asked for this sort-of-running example, it might be worth a few laughs.
The paint is beige just like the Peugeot on our docket today, though as a GM car the color is probably called “Antelope Firemist Metallic” or something stupid like that. The Olds looks clean with the exception of the missing GM “flexible” body-colored bumper fillers don’t live up to that description after a few bumps and fall off of the car. Actually, this thing looks surprisingly clean in all areas.
Now, the video in the ad does show the Toronado rattling away, but we are told that it is less than roadworthy due to the car sitting for over thirty years. Also, there is the little issue of the car “leaking diesel fuel under the hood” which could be anything from a rather easy hose fix or a water-damaged diesel pump now dripping at the seams. Regardless, diesel isn’t a particularly explosive fuel so you’re unlikely to end up like Sam Rothstein his same-car-under-the-skin E-body Eldorado. That reduces your worries a bit, right?
Check out the interior on this thing; some deep cleaning would get it looking nearly new. Waft around in this for an hour and you’ll never set your ass in the hair-shirt austerity and equipment-free cabin of a diesel Benz ever again. Power seats? Variable speed intermittent wipers? Cornering lights? Even the Mercedes 380SL of the day didn’t have such witchcraft.
The video attached to the ad proves that the opera lights still work. What’s not to love?
An unloved French import with unobtanium parts or an American luxury car with one of the world’s most reliable engines turned into possibly one of the worst? Which of these beige bombers would you choose?
By the way: Mark, his truck, and his prized MG have arrived safely at his new home, and he’ll do a roundup of all the guest posters this week (and see how upset he might be about our absurd choices, or were they not absurd enough?
I chose the Tornado, its a easy gas engine swap if needed. They ride and drive great. They do great backwards donuts in the snow great as my friend demonstrated in his Mom’s nearly new one in the early 80’s.
We had a customer with a Peugot, and that thing was weird(which led to problems!) The rear taillight assembly(paging Torchinsky!) is a flat circuit board with surface mounted bulb receptacles. The board mounts to the vehicle body. The problem was this board tended to crack in Canada’s -30°C breaking the connection, often grounding the board out. But! The weird bit is the board had constant power, and turned the ground on and off. So when a crack occurred, all the lights stayed on. I remember replacing this thing more than once.
Oh, and the horn was at the end of the daintiest little column stalk. I don’t know how you were supposed to smash that thing in anger.
TLDR ;Toronado
Board looked a lot like this
https://www.boutique-laventure-association.com/en/peugeot/8707-rear-light-bulb-holder.html
That’s just nuts. I have to wonder about the decision tree that led to that … thing being installed
Are you a French engineer?
Y—-N
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Do
whatevs!
That’s a pretty simple board. Nowadays you could easily go to one of a dozen places that print custom PCBs and get one. The sockets might be harder to source though. And actually for that price you probably wouldn’t come out ahead… but fun DIY.
I chose the Pug but the back seat of the Olds looks very inviting.
Grew up in the backseat of an 85 505 diesel and a 79 504 diesel. Everytime one of these pops up for sale, I have to stop myself from bringing it home
The main reason to buy this Toronado would be to give that diesel engine a good yeet and look for something better to take its place. Since GM is the Taco Bell of automakers, you won’t have much trouble finding one. In the spirit of which car I like better right now, I will take the Peugeot and fart in the general direction of anyone who disagrees.
Having had an Olds diesel as my first car, I’m all in. And there are places that sell replacement plastic for those bumper fillers. So clearly, this is a well-reasoned approach to this conundrum…
Those seats look so comfortable. And that backseat, I want to take a nap in it!
I’ll take the Toronado. An isolation luxury land yacht that clatters like a school bus is inherently awesome.
I actually want one of these. I would aboslutely NOT convert it to a gas engine. For whatever reason, I like loud, smoky diesels. I would remove the landau roof, though. These cars look infinitely better with a metal roof.
there are so few running diesels left that we need to have at least one for historic reasons.
I have been and ever shall be an Olds man. Bring the hate.
Going against the grain here. While I generally prefer smaller, lighter cars with manuals, I have an irrational love of PLCs, even the funky FWD Toronados.
As for the disgusting diesel, I’ve mentioned before that there are kits that I believe are still available for converting the Olds 350D into a petrol burner as God intended. These kits ain’t cheap or easy to install, but my understanding is that it is a straightforward swap of connecting rods and heads and can be done in a weekend. Also, since the Olds 350D block was beefed up to handle diesel compression ratios, they will also handle forced induction without complaints.
Now factor in GM A/C that will freeze your genitalia and those dreamy pillow-top Barcaloungers masquerading as car seats, and you’d have a helluva highway cruiser. Last step is a maker-space to 3D print replacement bumper fillers.
We’ll take the Pug, as recompense for not convincing my husband to let me bring back a Twingo from our honeymoon in France.
That said, I like this generation of E-bodies, the Toro’s interior is CRAZY comfortable, and the Olds is a used SBC away from being viable.
Wow…all. those. ashtrays. on the Olds!
Hard to believe that an American car would somehow have more ashtrays than a French car, n’est-ce pas?
What I esp. love is…it’s a coupe with fixed rear windows.
“Guys, I can’t see out of the back at all! Give it a rest until we get there, huh!?” “Maybe if this thing could go a little faster, we could wait.”
Both cars will STILL smell like old cigarettes
Those Manhattan park bench bumpers don’t look too bad on the Pooshow (thanks John Davis) actually. And I do love the sound of an old french diesel clacketiclacking until the car rusts away. And it has the Dunlop Wheels!
I have “only” owned it’s predecessor and it drove like a much lighter W123 😎
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bl-X3-FBbVM/
The Pug is actually the better choice here. I voted for the 505.
GM sabotaged the diesel to ruin the reputation of diesel engines.
I voted Pug, but in reality, I think I’d spend my money hiring someone to beat me with a sack of oranges.
No question here. The Pug will run forever. By any standard — including power-to-weight — it smokes the Toro.
As an aside to The Bishop: MB-Tex is immortal. It will survive all of us, and our prand-progeny.
In the after times, the survivors will make clothing from mb tex seats and marvel at the amazing properties of the ancestors miracle cloth. Then hope it will protect them from the giant mutant Roachbears.
Peugeot, their diesel was a an established, reliable motor whereas the Olds/GM was not. I worked on several of them in the late 70s and they were awful. All of the people who say they could be made to run well, or at least OK, miss the point. You shouldn’t have to “make” your car run right.
Paging Ford 6.0 owners….
Seriously! What is it with diesel fanboys and the phrase “It’s a great engine if you do an extensive and expensive rebuild on it.” Just don’t buy the damn thing! I’m a Ford fanboy, and I will admit certain vehicles of theirs are pure crap! Mostly anything made after… 1970. Trucks… 1997.
I haven’t read or voted on one of these in a while, but I do have this weird thing for Peugeots and couldn’t resist. I thought I might be in minority voting for it until I read about the Olds. Bless you for making the 505 the no brainer option here.
Overnight parts from Marseilles it is.
First off, for yesterday, yes, the Disco is a terrible choice, but so is the Toureg. I went Disco because it looks like a more comfortable place to hang out while waiting for the tow truck. We were given two terrible choices, that was definitely one of those days where the best option was to walk.
Today it’s Peugeot no question. Even given my struggles with my 306, I still have an irrational love for French cars, it’s a manual, and it is drivable so no contest.
I do have to confess that I missed the prices and the $1500 price disparity does make a stronger case for the Olds, but even still, no thanks.
Yiiiiiikes.
Yeah, I guess I’ll take the Poo-go.
Can’t say I’ve wanted to own a French car, but given that alternative choice, well…
I’m a GM fan. I like a lot of malaise era stuff. I’ve always hated that E-body generation though. Get that ugly no bumper filler having Oldsmobile out of my face. For once, I’ll have the French car.
“French” and “diesel” – my two least favorite automotive words.
The Olds is at least redeemable with an engine swap.
How is this even a choice? I’ll take the running, stylish, insanely comfortable Pug over the hideous Olds that appears to be suffering from automotive leprosy.
Not
Even
Close.
To pick the Toro, It would need-
Bumper fillersA whole lot of cleaningEngine swap. Olds 307, Chevy 350, LS crate motor, doesn’t matter.
I am shocked to see an original 1980 Olds diesel still in running, or nearly running, condition. Yes, it is possible to make them sufficiently reliable and durable, the Target remanufactured engines that were available in the ’90s were fine, but the cars depreciated so badly that it often wasn’t worth doing it. A lot of GM diesels ended up mysteriously on fire in remote areas, shortly after visiting a dealership for a trade-in offer