Don’t get me wrong; I love golden-era Mercedes. I put over 100,000 miles on an old W126 S-class and can still hear the click of the door shutting and the wail of the ten-cent seat belt buzzer on this car that cost as much as two and a half Cadillacs when new.
Regardless, I have to question the insane pricing I’ve seen lately on diesel W123 Benzes, particularly wagons. These were very basic things often festooned with vinyl seats (sorry, “MB Tex”) and a zero-to-sixty time of days – even my V8 420SEL was not fast by any stretch of the definition. I know there’s a charm that’s hard to put a price on, but if one must, it wouldn’t be six figures.
That’s right; earlier this year a 1982 300TD wagon sold for nearly $100,000 on Bring A Trailer. Quite fetching in a nice shade of green, with low miles and in excellent nick, it was undeniably a fine example, but there are likely about a hundred cars you’d rather spend that kind of coin on. Also, the beauty of the W123 is that you can get a 150,000-mile example for a fraction of that cost with industrial upholstery and bulletproof switches that show virtually no wear.
Besides, there are other choices for ultra-slow early eighties diesels I found that we’ll choose from today that will blow the Mercedes away in terms of comfort and luxury. Are they perfect? No. Are they as durable as the Mercedes? Well, no again but you could get both for less than the auction commission on that $100K Malaise Benz.
Before we begin, I really have to question the sanity of our readers once again. Yesterday, Mercedes Streeter posted a Shitbox battle between two once-high-dollar European off-roaders that are now essentially ticking time bombs of deferred maintenance. Surprisingly (to me at least), the always-underrated Volkswagen Touareg was soundly beaten by… a Land Rover Discovery?
Sure, I know about the VW Group electrical issues and such, but more than half of the pics our own Disco-owning Rob Spiteri tends to post of his little Land Rover show it on a flatbed. I haven’t seen one moving under its own power in a decade. There are two in my neighborhood, both at the back of the driveway and unregistered (one house has two newer Range Rovers in front of it, proving that some people don’t learn). The Discovery does look cool, of course, and is apparently great off-road, but you’ll have a hell of a time getting from suburbia to the wilderness. To each his own, I guess.
Back to today’s battle of the Non-Benz Diesel Malaise Luxury Cars.
1982 Peugeot 505 Diesel – $3,500
Engine/drivetrain: 2.3 Liter 4 Cylinder Diesel making 71 HP, 5-speed manual
Location: Tarzana, California.
Odometer reading: 239,202 miles
Operational status: “good running condition”
If there’s any car that can rival the Mercedes for durability, it’s an old diesel Peugeot. Their reputation was proven by the fact that they were common sites in Africa where there are few roads, and used as taxi cabs in Manhattan in the early eighties when they had, well, no real roads. Also, if anyone says that you can’t have a luxobarge ride and road manners in one car, they haven’t driven or ridden in a Peugeot. These were great alternatives to the much more expensive W123 back in the day, and compared favorably to other yuppie fodder diesel options like a similar-sized 5 series, Volvo 240 and Audi 5000.
You can see for yourself with this 1982 Peugeot 505 Diesel in Tarzana, California. It’s a rare five-speed, so as the ad states the “performance” will be better than the typically-ordered automatic, meaning this 71 horsepower car will move like a quick glacier and not a standard glacier. The location says that rust shouldn’t be an issue; the hearing-aid-beige Pug benefits from a “decent repaint that is now peeling off” which has one questioning the “decent” part of the repaint.
Considering the age and miles the inside of this thing has held up quite well; the power sunroof no longer offers any sun but the ad doesn’t say if the niceties on display like the power windows, Kenwood cassette deck or air conditioning work. Even if that A/C functions, moving that lever up to “two snowflakes” will probably get you what feels like a hamster blowing over an ice cube and half of the engine’s meager power used to spin the compressor.
Sadly, Peugeot never really did find an audience here in the States. After selling a mere 4,200 cars in 1990, they pulled the plug on the US market the next year. The W123 is such an obvious choice, so if you’re trying to make a statement with your veggie oil conversion project, why not make a unique statement?
1980 Oldsmobile Toronado Diesel – $2,000
Engine/drivetrain: 5.7 Liter V8 Diesel making 105 HP, 3-speed automatic
Location: Coats, North Carolina
Odometer reading: 68,000 miles
Operational status: “runs…wouldn’t take much to get it going”
A “class action lawsuit” diesel-powered Toronado will make a different statement entirely, and to many of you that statement is a “wretched unreliable piece of shit.” Hey, I get it, but hear me out. I know that the 1978-85 GM oil-burning 350 V8 was based on a gas motor, but it was not “merely converted” to diesel as the wags will say. I’m also aware that after getting sued by customers they replaced engines free of charge with modified head bolts that supposedly still broke. However, a little research will show that GM (in their expected infinite wisdom) saved a few bucks on these things by not adding a simple water separator to take that incompressible liquid out of the fuel, so that combined with crappy diesel fuel in the late seventies resulted in many of the head bolt failures of this infamous motor. I swear there are fans online that claim these things can be made to run reliably and strong, or as strong as a 105-horsepower 5.7-liter engine in a two-ton car can.
I’m not about to say that a GM Diesel with better head bolts will rival a Mercedes, nor am I claiming that a 1980 Toronado is anywhere close to the pinnacle of the vaunted 1966 version of this front-drive Oldsmobile coupe. I am saying that for the two grand being asked for this sort-of-running example, it might be worth a few laughs.
The paint is beige just like the Peugeot on our docket today, though as a GM car the color is probably called “Antelope Firemist Metallic” or something stupid like that. The Olds looks clean with the exception of the missing GM “flexible” body-colored bumper fillers don’t live up to that description after a few bumps and fall off of the car. Actually, this thing looks surprisingly clean in all areas.
Now, the video in the ad does show the Toronado rattling away, but we are told that it is less than roadworthy due to the car sitting for over thirty years. Also, there is the little issue of the car “leaking diesel fuel under the hood” which could be anything from a rather easy hose fix or a water-damaged diesel pump now dripping at the seams. Regardless, diesel isn’t a particularly explosive fuel so you’re unlikely to end up like Sam Rothstein his same-car-under-the-skin E-body Eldorado. That reduces your worries a bit, right?
Check out the interior on this thing; some deep cleaning would get it looking nearly new. Waft around in this for an hour and you’ll never set your ass in the hair-shirt austerity and equipment-free cabin of a diesel Benz ever again. Power seats? Variable speed intermittent wipers? Cornering lights? Even the Mercedes 380SL of the day didn’t have such witchcraft.
The video attached to the ad proves that the opera lights still work. What’s not to love?
An unloved French import with unobtanium parts or an American luxury car with one of the world’s most reliable engines turned into possibly one of the worst? Which of these beige bombers would you choose?
By the way: Mark, his truck, and his prized MG have arrived safely at his new home, and he’ll do a roundup of all the guest posters this week (and see how upset he might be about our absurd choices, or were they not absurd enough?
For the 2nd time in as many days.
NOPE
Stick > Automatic.
I wonder if the French one Likes French Fry Grease. I would want to convert it and see if it made it very long.
When I was researching a quarter-century back, Mercedes 126 is what I settled on for making my own fuel. VWs were outrageously expensive (if available), and Volvos just plain unobtainable. Peugeots are pretty stout—but the low numbers sold here meant parts were not cheap or easy to get. I regret that, but price was the primary driver
Something about the 505 speaks to me, mostly NO! Still with a bit of work can be a good daily.
Have to go Olds on this one. Step one: stop at a marina for a mooring buoy. Y’all see where this is going. Step 2: find LS. Step 3: One-wheel peels for days!
The Oldsmobile, this has to be one of the easiest gasoline engine swaps there is. The bumpers can be recessed by removing the shock unit and bolting them up with plate brackets. A couple of weekends and she’d be smoking the hides and probably still cheaper than the Peugeot price of admission.
The Peugeot is a nightmare nope, an orphan is one thing, but a vehicle that nobody bought is going to be impossible going forward.
I mean LS swap the world. the french thing is a bit nicer looking and likely an LS fits there too. Just saying
Actually I was thinking Olds or SBC as more in the spirit of things and mostly a bolt-up.
Although LS would be an option for a few dollars more.
Unlike the Peugeot it wouldn’t need a full cage to tie the mess together.
I can’t believe people are siding with a French car you need to get parts for from Africa or South America and hasn’t seen a US dealership in 33 years.
Exactly. Imagine the other one!
THATS HALF THE FUN!
DO they Make Olds Diesel Parts still? Surely an Orphan GM brand with a terrible reputation is also in history of availability for parts.
Maybe not but a an Olds 350 or Olds 307 gas engine bolts right in and parts are still plentiful. You might end up spending a few hundred more than the Peugeot but will not have to worry about it anymore.
Buy once, cry once
Exactly this
Hey, my new Widex are grey!
You can improve the looks of the Peugeot by about 15998% (metric system) by switching to Euro specs that you can source very cheaply in Argentina.
The Olds looks comfy, but it can’t hold a candle against the Pug: it can only drive nicely on a straight line.
That 505 is beautiful and it will run like shit forever. The Oldsmobile is just shit.
Pug all day. Still a handsome thing and a much better engine. I’d rock the Toro if if it had a gas engine though.
Parts for the Peugeot shouldn’t be that hard to find. They made a trillion of those things. You may have to order some stuff from Europia, but that isn’t difficult.
I had a neighbor with a bustle-back diesel Olds Cutlass and kept that thing going for years. It outlived that neighbor even. So, apparently those engines can be durable.
The Pug because 80s GM Diesel and all that, but my god $3,500 for a 42 year old French car with a quarter mil on the odometer?! Also the Antelope Firemist Metallic paint on the Olds matches the gravel its been sitting on quite well.
My father loved his W123 stick-shift 240Ds back in the day. He bought one in 1977 and then a second one in 1982, (plus a diesel Rabbit in 1979 for good measure). I remember going to a Peugeot dealer to drive the 505 turbodiesel wagon, but my father ultimately (and wisely) settled on a VW Quantum instead.
Our neighbors noticed my father’s penchant for diesels during the during the gas crunch, but were more domestic-luxury oriented. Definitely not car people. They bought themselves one of these Toronado diesels. I don’t think it lasted 18 months. It was the last diesel I ever saw them drive.
When I think of a 40-year old car traversing a goat path in Kenya, I can see this Peugeot running steel wheels and a roof rack. For the life of me, I cannot draw a picture in my mind of the diesel Toronado doing the same.
Peugeot for me, but I really prefer the lines of the 505 wagon.
Put me down for “The Escape Machine.”
The Power of Intelligent Engineering
As a GM guy, I love the interior, white walls, and… well, that’s about it on that Oldsmo-bought-to-blow-up front-drive oil-burner. I just never cared for the down-sized, post-’78 version of that car (or its Eldorado cousin). They’re like the Scrappy-Doo versions of their parade-float forefathers.
The Peugeot five-speed diesel would be such a cool conversation-piece. And from the looks of things, it could go into service right away. I’m guessing that with the help of an internet forum or two, I could keep it on the road, mechanically-speaking, for quite awhile.
A quick note to anyone looking to do a veggie-oil conversion project. Just try harvesting and filtering the oil for a few months before going through with it. I had a ’74 240D converted to run on fryer-oil a number of years ago. Drove it for about a year and my second job become chasing down oil sources and oil-filtering. Fun for a little while, but it’s messy and gets old fast.
Lastly, I see the crazy has returned to BAT. I’ve owned two ’79 300TDs. Great cars, but not something I could ever imagine spending six-figures on.
Didn’t even read the Olds listing. Pug all the way.
That diesel in the Olds is terrible, but the body and interior look in decent enough shape to be worthy of a drivetrain swap. I wouldn’t even LS it. I think Camaro/Firebird 3800 would be perfect in there…with a manual. Now that’s durability it never had.
These Toronados did come with the Buick 4.1 V6 as a factory rebate option, while the Riviera platform mate offered the 3.8, so that part of the conversion should be pretty straightforward, at least.
And the whole point of making them longitudinal FWD was so GM’s RWD transmissions would still bolt right up. None of those E-bodies ever came with a manual, but there’s got to be some combination that would work without too much sheet metal hacking, right?
Also, the Buick had the turbo V6 option, but it was nowhere hear GN or GNX powerful
The transmission from a Fiero should be easy to acquire and bolt up
The interior of the Oldsmobile looks inviting, but for a vehicle I’d actually try to drive, I’ll go with the Peugeot.
I loves me some diesel and never owned a French car. Toss in the manual transmission and this was an easy choice.
If I absolutely must pick one, and I really don’t want to, I will take the Oldsmobile. And that is ONLY because I know a gas SBC can be swapped in nearly directly so there is some hope of it continuing to run.
A complete no brainer. Peugeot for the win . These were/are and will be driving through some of the roughest roads in the world. The craptastic GM diesel should even be an afterthought unless the inevitable LS swap candidate
As someone who had years in the back seat and driver’s seat of a Olds 350 diesel, albeit in a Buick chassis, I’m going Peugeot. I don’t actually have animosity for the Olds 350 diesel, as a good fuel filtration system does wonders for reliability on them, but the 80s Toronado was ugly and not worth dealing with the limited aftermarket support of the Olds 350 diesel for. The Peugot will also likely have limited stateside aftermarket support, but at least it is quirky enough to maybe be worth it.
If you chose the Olds, you should watch JunkYard Digs last YouTube video about reviving one of these pieces of crap. This is probably the only case where the Peugeot is the better choice.
Funnily enough, he seemed to actually like it on some level
Stockholm syndrome.
Voted Peugeot. I thought the price difference could sway me toward the Olds until I read the 30 year not moving part and leaks and started calculating replacing hoses, anything rubber and at best still having a 1980 Olds Toronado Diesel. Hell no! So Peugeot we go!
At this point, almost all Olds Diesels that are still running are the vastly improved ‘DX Block’. So this one actually probably will run for quite a long time.
In typical GM fashion, they rushed the Olds diesel to market for ’78, gathered all of the reputational damage from the half-baked product while working to fully bake it, brought the vastly improved version that they should have started with to market for ’82 (including a V6 version), and then didn’t understand why sales tanked. ’82 up cars are genuinely durable, but, not very many were sold ’82-’85, as people had already been turned off of the crap from ’78-’81. But, any cars that got replacement engines after the update got DX engines, and can generally be identified by the ‘Goodwrench’ plaque.
Fun Fact: 1981 was the highest sales year for the Olds diesel, at ~360,000 cars and trucks sold.
And, listen. If you want a gas Toronado, FFS, just buy a gas one, they’re cheap and plentiful. There’s so few diesels left, just leave them to the crazy people like me who would actually have one.