There’s a tweet that is currently going somewhat viral, all about a long road trip taken in a Tesla Model Y. It’s a 3,605 mile road trip, which is absolutely no joke by any standards of a road trip. What’s notable about this trip is that the taker of this trip, Alex Gayer, kept some nicely meticulous records and did some math to figure out how much time was spent charging, how much money was spent, and what the equivalent would be in miles per gallon. One gets the sense that this was all done to brag about his Tesla, which is fine since we don’t kink-shame here, but interestingly, I think the end result of this is not an aggrandizement of Tesla, but actually a pretty solid argument in favor of plug-in hybrids!
As I think we’ve made pretty clear, we’re very pro hybrids, especially plug-in hybrids. They may not be the absolute platonic ideal of perfect efficiency, but they make a lot of sense for the flawed, messy reality we all actually live in. There’s a pragmatic beauty to hybrids. Yes, you’re dragging around two entire types of drivetrains, but the capabilities of those drivetrains dovetail so well with each other, with each one’s strengths filling in the weaknesses of the other – electric motors’ instant torque helping the combustion engine, the reclamation of normally lost kinetic energy from braking, the energy density of gasoline, all of these traits combine to make a system that’s more than the sum of its parts.
Let’s take a look at this proud Tesla owner’s math and see what we think of all this. First, let’s look at the overall trip:
Just took Model Y on a 3,605 mi road trip. Wanted to see what the worst case might look like for charging costs. 5 passengers total, fully loaded frunk and trunk, we drove as fast as conditions allowed and hit several rain storms, used heavy A/C, kids playing video games from the pic.twitter.com/amcO0lhpbc
— Alex Gayer (@alex_gayer) June 18, 2024
Damn, that’s a long trip! Based on that map, it looks like it took, what, 24 recharging stops? Alex breaks down some of the math for us, helpfully:
Here are my statistics:
Trip Miles: 3,605
Total kWh: 1310.58
Wh/mi: 363.55
Total spent charging: $421.84
Avg. Cost per mile: $0.12
Avg. Cost per kWh: $0.32
Total Time Spent Supercharging: 10 hours 58 minutes (did not include destination charges)— Alex Gayer (@alex_gayer) June 18, 2024
So, we have 3,605 miles, with an average cost per mile of 12 cents, and just under 11 hours of charging time for the trip. Oh, and that doesn’t count “destination charges” which is charging done once they reached their destination for that leg of the journey. The total spent on electrons to feed into those big lithium batteries came to $421.84. Okay, all that seems in order. But it was this next tweet that I really think got everyone wondering:
The average price of gas at the time was about $3.516 per gallon. The money spent charging could have purchased 119.98 gallons of gas. This means that to have made the same trip in a gas-powered car for the same cost, I would have had to achieve an average of 30.0 MPG.
— Alex Gayer (@alex_gayer) June 18, 2024
Okay, so I suspect everyone here is thinking the same thing: 30 mpg? That’s, um, normal? Like, almost anything can hit 30 mpg on the highway now, right? And the way this is phrased – “I would have had to achieve an average of 30.0 MPG” – makes it sound like this is some incredible feat? Big-ass modern SUVs can pull off about 30 MPG now. I just had a press V8 Mustang that was hitting about 30 mpg on the highway recently, too. This isn’t nuclear fusion here.
Okay, so using Alex’ numbers here, let’s figure out what an equivalent trip in a combustion car that gets 30 mpg highway would be like. Let’s say we’re taking an Acura Integra, why not, which gets a combined 30-33 mpg (city 30/highway 37, if you’re curious) and that car has a 12.4 gallon gas tank.
So, the range of that car at a conservative 30 mpg would be 372 miles, so if we divide 3,605 miles by 372 that means we’d have to stop for gas 9.69 times, which we’ll round up to 10 because we probably want more Nutter Butters and Munchos and pee breaks, anyway.
Each tank of 12.4 gallons at $3.516 is $43.60 to fill the tank (completely, which is unlikely, but whatever so that comes to $436.00 for all the gas, a bit more than the electricity, but effectively the same, since it’s unlikely you’ll be draining that tank to bone-dry each time.
Now let’s think about time. Let’s err on the side of slowness and say each fill-up takes 15 minutes, so we have 10 stops, which means 150 minutes, or two and a half hours total. That’s a hell of a lot less than 11 hours. It’s eight and a half hours less, in fact.
And, keep in mind, 30 mpg is just a baseline here – it’s not hard to find all sorts of cars, like Toyota Priuses or Honda Civics or Volkswagen Jettas or Toyota RAV4s or any number of other cars that get well over 30 mpg, 35 and up, even 40 mpg for highway mileage is not uncommon. So the reality is likely to be less fuel needed and less fill-ups than we calculated here.
Of course, people on eX-Twitter pointed out these facts, Alex pointed out that in non-highway use, his Tesla gets well over 30 mpg, often up to an EV equivalent of 90 mpg. And that’s true! But it’s also true that plug-in hybrids can get similar equivalent mpg numbers when running on battery power in-town, and can also take advantage of having a combustion engine that quickly refuels when being used on a long road trip.
If we look at the electric-only ranges of PHEVs, we can see that most of them can cover the average American daily commute distance of 12 miles just on battery power:
- Jeep Wrangler 4xe: 22 miles
- Ford Escape plug-in: 37 miles
- Chrysler Pacifica PHEV: 32 miles
- Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe: 26 miles
- Hyundai Tucson PHEV: 33 miles
- Mazda CX-90 PHEV: 26 miles
- BMW X5 xDrive50e: 38 miles
- BMW 330e: 23 miles
- Toyota Prius Prime: 44 miles
- Toyota RAV4 Prime: 42 miles
- Lexus RX450h+: 37 miles
Hell, even the worst of these can pull off almost the whole back-and-forth commute without needing to start the combustion motor at all:
I know Alex Gayer didn’t really intend it to be this way, but I think his carefully-tracked road trip tweets will actually do a lot of good, just not in the everyone-should-get-a-Tesla sense. I think it’ll do good in the we-should-all-seriously-consider-plug-in-hybrids sense. Sure, they’re conceptually a clunky compromise, but in reality, in actual practice, they really do seem to offer the best of both worlds.
Had Alex and his four companions and all their luggage been in a plug-in hybrid, they could have spent the same amount of money and finished their trip an entire eight and a half hours earlier, which perhaps could have spared them seven or so hours of listening to Alex talk about how awesome his Tesla is.
I kid, Alex, I kid! I’m delighted you love your car! We should all be so lucky! But if we’re talking hard numbers, I think this whole thing has been a win for the plug-in hybrids.
I hope you had a fun trip, though!
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Just ask yourself: “would I rather be charged up or gassed?”
My 15-year-old Prius gets 46 MPG if I don’t work at it at all – I mean, that’s what it gets with the windows down at 70mph. If I assume gas costs $4/gal (a more pessimistic assumption than Gayer’s but also allows for other consumables like oil), I could cover over 4800 miles for the same money.
For the record, my old pickup also gets over 30 miles per gallon. While the road trip itself is impressive I think the most important part to note is that the miles/kW-h equation shows that electric mobility is FAR more efficient than burning ancient peat bogs. And when you pay for charging, you get hit hard in the wallet for the privilege of that big pipe pumping all those kilowatts so fast. Charging at home is cheap and fast chargers are demonstrably expensive.
PG&E charges 42 cents per kWh in Northern California. That number definitely affects the cheapness of charging at home!
That’s another 30% higher than Gayer paid at fast chargers. I can’t think of a much better incentive to install as much solar as you can fit onto every sky-facing surface you own.
My 15-year-old Prius gets 46 MPG if I don’t work at it at all – I mean, that’s what it gets with the windows down at 70mph. If I assume gas costs $4/gal (a more pessimistic assumption than Gayer’s but also allows for other consumables like oil), I could cover over 4800 miles for the same money.
For the record, my old pickup also gets over 30 miles per gallon. While the road trip itself is impressive I think the most important part to note is that the miles/kW-h equation shows that electric mobility is FAR more efficient than burning ancient peat bogs. And when you pay for charging, you get hit hard in the wallet for the privilege of that big pipe pumping all those kilowatts so fast. Charging at home is cheap and fast chargers are demonstrably expensive.
PG&E charges 42 cents per kWh in Northern California. That number definitely affects the cheapness of charging at home!
That’s another 30% higher than Gayer paid at fast chargers. I can’t think of a much better incentive to install as much solar as you can fit onto every sky-facing surface you own.
If all you’re doing is roads trips get a hybrid. A HEV turns in better fuel economy than a PHEV operating in hybrid mode and costs thousands less. Why charge a PHEV on a road trip and overpay for electricity that will only get you 30± of range?
Yeah, I came here to post the same. If you’re mostly going to be on the highway you’re not going to benefit from the extra cost, weight, and materials that go into a PHEV.
Yup. I’ve got a PHEV and my wife’s gas only Tiguan gets better highway MPG. The PHEV is of little benefit to us on a road trip.
I think the argument is that you don’t *have* to plug in your PHEV on a road trip. You can ignore the plug-in aspect, get great mileage, and return to plugging it in for your daily commute needs.
Because the slightly increased per-mile cost of the PHEV’s slightly-poorer energy efficiency on a road trip is far, far outweighed by its vastly better energy efficiency on daily drives. “If all you’re doing is road trips” is the kind of scenario that only applies to inner-city folks who don’t need cars day to day; over 90% of American households own at least one car. As of the latest info I can find, 76% of American workers commute every day and of those, nearly 68% commute alone. That’s just over 50% of all American workers racking up miles who could, on average, cover every last inch of their daily distance on EV miles with a Prius Prime.
The hybrid does better on distance, true. But the PHEV does better in general. I say this owning and loving a Prius; my son owns a Volt and I envy his EV capability, even though my own commute is beyond his EV range. It could cut my already small mobility expense in half.
If all you’re doing is roads trips get a hybrid. A HEV turns in better fuel economy than a PHEV operating in hybrid mode and costs thousands less. Why charge a PHEV on a road trip and overpay for electricity that will only get you 30± of range?
Yeah, I came here to post the same. If you’re mostly going to be on the highway you’re not going to benefit from the extra cost, weight, and materials that go into a PHEV.
Yup. I’ve got a PHEV and my wife’s gas only Tiguan gets better highway MPG. The PHEV is of little benefit to us on a road trip.
I think the argument is that you don’t *have* to plug in your PHEV on a road trip. You can ignore the plug-in aspect, get great mileage, and return to plugging it in for your daily commute needs.
Because the slightly increased per-mile cost of the PHEV’s slightly-poorer energy efficiency on a road trip is far, far outweighed by its vastly better energy efficiency on daily drives. “If all you’re doing is road trips” is the kind of scenario that only applies to inner-city folks who don’t need cars day to day; over 90% of American households own at least one car. As of the latest info I can find, 76% of American workers commute every day and of those, nearly 68% commute alone. That’s just over 50% of all American workers racking up miles who could, on average, cover every last inch of their daily distance on EV miles with a Prius Prime.
The hybrid does better on distance, true. But the PHEV does better in general. I say this owning and loving a Prius; my son owns a Volt and I envy his EV capability, even though my own commute is beyond his EV range. It could cut my already small mobility expense in half.
Okay, so the price is about comparable on a road trip between an HEV and a BEV.
What about the gas price for the other 95% of his miles, locally around town? When he’s charging at home rather than at public chargers?
The same, with a plug-in hybrid.
Besides, the money isn’t the takeaway here, it’s the trip being 8 hours shorter with gas.
Okay, so the price is about comparable on a road trip between an HEV and a BEV.
What about the gas price for the other 95% of his miles, locally around town? When he’s charging at home rather than at public chargers?
The same, with a plug-in hybrid.
Besides, the money isn’t the takeaway here, it’s the trip being 8 hours shorter with gas.
Few years ago we did almost 1400 mile trip from Chicago to Fort Myers, FL in less than 16 hours in BMW 535d averaging over 30MPG. Would’ve been faster but roads in Illinois were covered in snow. I would love to hear how long it takes to make that trip in an EV ????
Few years ago we did almost 1400 mile trip from Chicago to Fort Myers, FL in less than 16 hours in BMW 535d averaging over 30MPG. Would’ve been faster but roads in Illinois were covered in snow. I would love to hear how long it takes to make that trip in an EV ????
So…. yeah this kind of road trip is why we own a BEV.
We take long road trips (read: require DC Fast charging) maybe 6 times a year tops which is more than most people I suspect. The entire rest of the year our 300 mile real world range covers us 100% of the time, including the many, many intermediate range drives that would require gas in a plug in hybrid. On those road trips our cost washes with using gas, and we plan charging stops with meal breaks so while the fueling process takes longer the actual added time on the road is maybe a half hour a day, max.
The rest of the year we pay way less to fuel our car and don’t have to haul a second powertrain around. Plus EV packaging means we can own a much smaller BEV than we could PHEV for the equivalent passenger and cargo space.
PHEVs also have some major drawbacks – I hated driving our Pacifica Hybrid in the winter because the battery had no thermal management so our efficiency tanked and the range halved (at best) once it hit about 45. Plus it ran the gas engine constantly to heat the cabin.
TL;DR this post isn’t the dunk Torch thinks it is, and PHEVS come with some real drawbacks, a thing he’d know if he lived with one.
So…. yeah this kind of road trip is why we own a BEV.
We take long road trips (read: require DC Fast charging) maybe 6 times a year tops which is more than most people I suspect. The entire rest of the year our 300 mile real world range covers us 100% of the time, including the many, many intermediate range drives that would require gas in a plug in hybrid. On those road trips our cost washes with using gas, and we plan charging stops with meal breaks so while the fueling process takes longer the actual added time on the road is maybe a half hour a day, max.
The rest of the year we pay way less to fuel our car and don’t have to haul a second powertrain around. Plus EV packaging means we can own a much smaller BEV than we could PHEV for the equivalent passenger and cargo space.
PHEVs also have some major drawbacks – I hated driving our Pacifica Hybrid in the winter because the battery had no thermal management so our efficiency tanked and the range halved (at best) once it hit about 45. Plus it ran the gas engine constantly to heat the cabin.
TL;DR this post isn’t the dunk Torch thinks it is, and PHEVS come with some real drawbacks, a thing he’d know if he lived with one.
Everyone telling their car can do 30 mpg ; but not on a road trip with 5 people and cargo.
Not on a trip where you don’t just sit 3000 miles on a highway but actually drive around .. real roads with traffic lights and what not.
I manage to do 21 mpg with my 500 hp German V8 but in **reality** I see a lot of 10-12 mpg while not driving 55 mph on a straight non-congested highway.
I’m not sure what you are getting at. A RAV4 hybrid, Sienna hybrid, and many other cars will do better than 30mpg while barreling down the highway at 75mph, fully loaded with the AC on.
You are missing the point. Cannot compare. Weaker engine. And a roadtrip isn’t only about the highway doing 75 mph. I doubt the guy drove 3000 miles at 75 mph.
I recently did the mileage calculation on my 1986 Mercedes 300SDL. Over one tank (503 miles) of mixed use driving (65/35ish city/hwy) I averaged 25mpg on the nose (9.4L/100km).
This is a nearly 40 year old, 17 foot long, 4000lb sedan with no lockup converter. 30MPG is not hard to achieve and with a largely highway trip, even my old boat may almost make the cut. Plus I have 90 liters of fuel on board, so far fewer stops.
Diesel. Engine barely half the power of a Model Y. Emitting enough soot during 3000 miles to fill a bathtub. Next.
I fail to see where power is part of the equation here. You also seem to have very little knowledge of diesels if you think they’d fill a bathtub with soot over it’s lifetime, let alone 3000 miles. If ignorance drives your buying decisions, it makes sense that you’d gravitate to Tesla.
You want to compare how clean a diesel is vs an EV? Right.
I mean, I’m 20 years into the commercial diesel industry and have data, so we can do that. But from your tone it feels like you’re arguing in bad faith.
Just did a trip in my 2021 Yukon xl diesel from KS to Va 1330 miles filled up before we left and once on the way spent $140 averaged 29 mpg loaded with 6 people, 2 dogs and luggage.
Diesel. Cannot compare. You’re also emitting enough soot to make a few miles of new tarmac.
Why does diesel not compare but gas does? Is it because it collapses your argument?
Dude you’re comparing the dirtiest possible solution with a full electric car. Do you really want to go that route?
Congrats that your car was able do do 29 mpg. If you’re proud of that (you need to comment to tell it) then can you also understand that the guy’s 30 mpg was more or less the worst of the worst? Because Model Ys (and a lot of other EVs) often reach as much as 100 mpge.
There’s several ways to look at this. One is, the car has been on the road for 38 years. It’s debt to manufacturing emissions is long paid. The other is that it doesn’t require new infrastructure. Finally, scrapping a running vehicle to replace it with an EV brings in the argument of how long I have to drive that EV to offset the environmental cost of scrapping an old vehicle and manufacturing a new one.
There is a chance, I didn’t do the calculations, that your diesel is doing more environmental damage than 10 modern cars, in a year. So if you keep driving for say another 5 years … That’s 50 years of modern car emissions. And the emissions of a modern car are mostly CO2, not NO and diesel particulates. How about brake dust (no regen) and we have to consider burning oil through old oil scrap rings – unless you’ve rebuild your engine every decade.
Again I am not blaming anyone for driving old cars even or especially ones that aren’t eco friendly ; I have 2 of those, just 15 years old each, but a 6.2L V8 and a 5.4L V8 aren’t going to win any prizes compared to modern cars regarding emissions. But I don’t say that my ICE cars are -anywhere- near as efficient or environmental friendly as the Tesla above.
So my point still is ; even though the Tesla fared pretty poor with ’30 mpg’ due to high supercharging costs – a regular ‘efficient’ ICE car will barely come close to 30 mpg using all tricks of the book; driving slowly, driving only highway (vs a real roadtrip which isn’t just highways – who does that; only measuring highway mpg and conveniently leaving out urban/city driving).
If the Tesla would be charging mainly at home and not run over 3000 miles in a short time, then he’d be close to 100 MPGe. That’s 300% better than someone doing 30 MPG and close to 400% better than for example my BEST MPG.
Anyways, TL;DR; I think everyone is bashing the guy for the wrong reasons. If he had paid less for the supercharging his ‘mpg’ would easily be closer to 40 or even 50 MPGe and then nobody would have commented like “my car can do that too – see, EVs suck!”.
I like classics as well btw, so I’m not against a 50 year old car going well over any emission limits because I know there are just a few of them on the road. It’s the “common ICE car” which sees 30-80 miles a day which is the big problem regarding emissions.
Besides cars we have to check trucks, planes, ships, coal plants, gas stoves and what not to reduce emissions to avoid a catastrophic runaway rise in the average global temperature which is already causing problems for everyone. We might already be too late reversing it.
I mean, in my case it’s a classic that sees about 2500-3000 miles a year.
One of the unforseen environmental consequences of EVs as well is the weight. From shredding tires (adding the emissions of that rubber to the environment) to the increased intervals of repaving roads, adding between 25% to 50% of the curb weight is having an effect.
And for what it’s worth, NOx emissions are an issue with modern diesels. When they increased the efficiency of the burn through higher compression and injection pressures, cylinder temps increased and NOx was an issue. My 80s mechanical injection with a whopping 1958psi (135 bar) injection pressure is not creating much in the way of NOx.
I’ll add (again) that I’m not at all anti-EV. I’m still mostly PHEV camp because it’s the quickest route to tge maximum amount of emissions reduction from commuting. Who cares if an HEV burns 20 gallons of gas twice a month hauling a trailer if the other 28 days were spent commuting on electric?
I hear you. I don’t think PHEVs are bad, it is just that is less efficient than just having a simple battery and 1 or 2 electric motors. But if you need more range and instant recharging or something like that then sure PHEVs are fine.
I honestly do think that even current EVs are good enough for 90% of the current car audience. The remaining 10% can either stick with the ICEs they have or get a PHEV. Few people actually tow a boat or horses, especially those living in the cities. For them a 2+2 seater would be enough, light, nimble, small, easy to park and could probably last nearly a month on one charge if you only drive 20-30 miles a day in stop-go traffic.
I am not against ICE cars, I have two V8s drinking more gasoline than half a block of neighbors, but that’s because I’m a petrol head and I’m also not driving a lot in them, if it’s 5000 miles a year per car then it’s a lot.
Everyone telling their car can do 30 mpg ; but not on a road trip with 5 people and cargo.
Not on a trip where you don’t just sit 3000 miles on a highway but actually drive around .. real roads with traffic lights and what not.
I manage to do 21 mpg with my 500 hp German V8 but in **reality** I see a lot of 10-12 mpg while not driving 55 mph on a straight non-congested highway.
I’m not sure what you are getting at. A RAV4 hybrid, Sienna hybrid, and many other cars will do better than 30mpg while barreling down the highway at 75mph, fully loaded with the AC on.
I recently did the mileage calculation on my 1986 Mercedes 300SDL. Over one tank (503 miles) of mixed use driving (65/35ish city/hwy) I averaged 25mpg on the nose (9.4L/100km).
This is a nearly 40 year old, 17 foot long, 4000lb sedan with no lockup converter. 30MPG is not hard to achieve and with a largely highway trip, even my old boat may almost make the cut. Plus I have 90 liters of fuel on board, so far fewer stops.
Just did a trip in my 2021 Yukon xl diesel from KS to Va 1330 miles filled up before we left and once on the way spent $140 averaged 29 mpg loaded with 6 people, 2 dogs and luggage.
That’s food for thought. My Cruze Eco would have probably achieved 38-40 mpg. Albeit on premium.
5 people in a MY sounds like a 7 seater. How in the world did he convince someone to occupy the third row for that long?!? iPad and Benadryl? Anyone much over 48 inches would be a pretzel back there.
That’s food for thought. My Cruze Eco would have probably achieved 38-40 mpg. Albeit on premium.
5 people in a MY sounds like a 7 seater. How in the world did he convince someone to occupy the third row for that long?!? iPad and Benadryl? Anyone much over 48 inches would be a pretzel back there.
I recently did a trip from PA to Hilton Head SC in my wife’s Palisade we averaged 25-28mpg the entire time and I was doing 70+ majority of the time on the highway with a bike rack. We also did a trip to Tennessee last year and same thing. If I tried to hypermile I probably could have done an average of 30mpg.
Had we done these in my Accord hybrid it probably would’ve been 40mpg, but I wanted to take my bike both times.
I recently did a trip from PA to Hilton Head SC in my wife’s Palisade we averaged 25-28mpg the entire time and I was doing 70+ majority of the time on the highway with a bike rack. We also did a trip to Tennessee last year and same thing. If I tried to hypermile I probably could have done an average of 30mpg.
Had we done these in my Accord hybrid it probably would’ve been 40mpg, but I wanted to take my bike both times.
tldr, but:
If all you are doing is road trips -> PHEV.
Everyone else -> BEV.
If all you’re doing is roads trips get a hybrid. A HEV turns in better fuel economy than a PHEV operating in hybrid mode and costs thousands less. Why charge a PHEV on a road trip and overpay for electricity that will only get you 30± of range?
You are right, my main point is just that for most people, that can charge at home, a BEV is more than sufficient. Unless they are doing 150+ miles a day, year round.
My logic:
First day of forgetting to charge, I feel like an idiot.
Second day, in a row, I forget to charge, I have to call my boss and let her know I am an idiot.
I mean, I visit family regularly that live rural, and the range would be stretched during the summer. Winter would have me guessing if I can make it round trip. They do not have the means to charge more than 110v, and then I’d have to inconvenience them with it.
I would like you to take a deep dive into your argument.
On one hand, your main argument is that you have to inconvenience your family, by paying them a little to charge your car while you visit them and potentially having to do a 25 min pitstop while travelling to charge as well.
On the other hand…Let us continiue this death spiral towards making this planet a living hell, while producing massive local pollution while doing it.
I had this long argument planned, actually started typing, but realized i simply cannot be bothered. Last thing I read before I wet to bed was a brief article on how photovoltaic celle (solar panels) cause cancer.
Keep voting republican, do whatever you feel like, but at least man up and wear the fucking armband.
There are no charging stations between my place and theirs. I live in Canada, where infrastructure is…lacking.
Alternatively, to charge at my sister-in-law’s (whom is so tight on budget that she doesn’t use her A/C) I’d need a 200ft extension cable. Again, these are rural properties.
I missed the last line of what you wrote, boy howdy did you ever take a giant leap of assumption. I’ve never voted republican in my life, as I’m not an American. Nor would I ever vote for the party of anti-women’s rights and deregulation of things like the EPA.
My understanding of the realities around EV does not make me anti-EV, it simply means that currently they are not a solution for ME. Just cause I don’t like eating coconut doesn’t make me anti-coconut, everyone else is still allowed to eat as they please.
tldr, but:
If all you are doing is road trips -> PHEV.
Everyone else -> BEV.
If all you’re doing is roads trips get a hybrid. A HEV turns in better fuel economy than a PHEV operating in hybrid mode and costs thousands less. Why charge a PHEV on a road trip and overpay for electricity that will only get you 30± of range?
You are right, my main point is just that for most people, that can charge at home, a BEV is more than sufficient. Unless they are doing 150+ miles a day, year round.
My logic:
First day of forgetting to charge, I feel like an idiot.
Second day, in a row, I forget to charge, I have to call my boss and let her know I am an idiot.
Of course, none of those EVs or PHEVs come with the best fuel saving device we’ve seen, the Jatco Xtronic CVT. Maybe Alex’s trip would have been better had his car been properly equipped…
I appreciate this comment because the most fun rental car I’ve ever had in the US was a Nissan Cube with the CVT. For being a box it also achieved 33mpg going 65-70mph. That CVT was fun to drive and just gave the Cube drivetrain some real character.
LOL, you’re definitely one of my favorite commenters. 🙂
Of course, none of those EVs or PHEVs come with the best fuel saving device we’ve seen, the Jatco Xtronic CVT. Maybe Alex’s trip would have been better had his car been properly equipped…
I appreciate this comment because the most fun rental car I’ve ever had in the US was a Nissan Cube with the CVT. For being a box it also achieved 33mpg going 65-70mph. That CVT was fun to drive and just gave the Cube drivetrain some real character.
LOL, you’re definitely one of my favorite commenters. 🙂
Shit, our TDI Sportwagen get’s 50 MPG on the highway loaded to the hilt. This why I fantasize about carbon neutral liquid fuels like bio diesel. There’s a lot of existing infrastructure out there and having such would allow us to comfortably build up the electric grid to handle the inevitable use of more electrons in the future. Plus it would make towing a snap. I continue to dream.
As an aside to this article, remember, Elon just got approved for a $45B payday. WTF!
Your wagon is probably one of the best cars for road trips. I had a MKIII TDi and I’d throw $5 at it each week for school and work committing. Miss that little guy.
Shit, our TDI Sportwagen get’s 50 MPG on the highway loaded to the hilt. This why I fantasize about carbon neutral liquid fuels like bio diesel. There’s a lot of existing infrastructure out there and having such would allow us to comfortably build up the electric grid to handle the inevitable use of more electrons in the future. Plus it would make towing a snap. I continue to dream.
As an aside to this article, remember, Elon just got approved for a $45B payday. WTF!
Your wagon is probably one of the best cars for road trips. I had a MKIII TDi and I’d throw $5 at it each week for school and work committing. Miss that little guy.
You have to account for food stops though. I just finished a road trip in a hybrid and we seemed to add an hour of stopping for every 8 hours of travel, so the hybrid would be quicker than the EV, but not dramatically quicker
This ^^
We only eat while charging and I find the car wins every time. We dont always eat while charging though, but the kids do like to stretch every 2-2.5 hrs, so once again, charging isn’t usually our bottle neck.
Yeah, the extent to which it slows you down is really going to depend on road trip style. A bathroom stop every 1.5-2hrs with a full lunch and dinner and maybe some stretching? There’s a few EV options that’ll be roughly equivalent to gas. Road warrior with an iron bladder who drives 12hrs with only a couple short pee/snack breaks? Definitely going to be better off with gas for a while.
My average from 4 years with a Model Y and 3 years before that with a Fusion Hybrid is that I am around 30min slower per 500 miles. Not nothing, but also not too bad. Because of food and bladder breaks ofc.
You have to account for food stops though. I just finished a road trip in a hybrid and we seemed to add an hour of stopping for every 8 hours of travel, so the hybrid would be quicker than the EV, but not dramatically quicker
This ^^
We only eat while charging and I find the car wins every time. We dont always eat while charging though, but the kids do like to stretch every 2-2.5 hrs, so once again, charging isn’t usually our bottle neck.
Yeah, the extent to which it slows you down is really going to depend on road trip style. A bathroom stop every 1.5-2hrs with a full lunch and dinner and maybe some stretching? There’s a few EV options that’ll be roughly equivalent to gas. Road warrior with an iron bladder who drives 12hrs with only a couple short pee/snack breaks? Definitely going to be better off with gas for a while.
My average from 4 years with a Model Y and 3 years before that with a Fusion Hybrid is that I am around 30min slower per 500 miles. Not nothing, but also not too bad. Because of food and bladder breaks ofc.