The tail end of last year was a rough one, for me. There was that aortic dissection, of course, with its associated pants-crappings and hospital stays, but right before that I smacked my friendly little Nissan Pao into a deer, yet again. Clearly, Odocoileus virginianus and I are sworn adversaries, seeing as how it was right around a year ago that I just got the car back after smacking another stupid deer, even harder.
I’m so tired of crashing my car into hundreds of pounds of idiotic venison, and I’m pretty sure the deer aren’t so crazy about this arrangement, either. So why do we keep doing this bloodthirsty dance?
And, even more baffling, why did my insurance company declare the car a total loss? I saw this notice in my insurance app and felt an unpleasant pang in my stomach:
Total loss. They’re just such grim-sounding words! It sounds so final, like an HR-talk way to talk about something getting annihilated. I’ll leave out what company I use, because I’m not here to shame anyone, as I think this is a pretty industry-wide sort of practice. In fact, I know it is, since we had an insurance insider write up a story for us that pretty much said just that: they’re in the business of totaling cars.
Also, what the hell is that “Gene Nissan” thing? Who’s Gene? Is that the founder of Nissan that has been kept secret all these years? Gene “The Machine” Nissan?
What makes all of this so baffling to me is just how un-totaled the Pao actually is. In fact, this deer-strike incident resulted in much less damage than the last time, and the insurance company didn’t total the car then, despite being so much worse off, with actual mechanical damage in addition to the bodywork. Look, here’s the front end of the Pao after both deer-smackings, the first one in 2021, and then the recent one, late last year:
As you can see, the 2021 impact was a lot worse, with damage to the hood, grille, foglamp, headlight, and the radiator behind all that. This was not considered a total loss. This current situation only involves the headlight, hood, fender, and the headlight bracket inside needs to be bent back. It’s significantly less severe. I can source a headlight pretty cheaply online, and I have a body guy here in town that can do the fiberglass work on the hood and the tiny amount needed on the fender. There’s no need to order new parts.
I took pictures of the damage and uploaded them into the app, thinking that would be a starting point, and some insurance claims adjuster would reach out and perhaps inspect the car in person, if needed. I was very wrong.
Also, right after the wreck, all of this got sort of put on hold because, well, that’s when my chest exploded and I had to stay in the hospital for a while, and couldn’t really follow up on any of this. But their adjusters kept busy, and came up with an estimate that, as a work of fiction, is pretty astounding:
Look at all that! The total is $8,317.84! What? How did they get there – that’s significantly more than last time! Looking in more detail at this estimate, though, it starts to make sense, because the adjusters seem determined to replace everything. They’re replacing things that weren’t even damaged: bumper bar, bumper overrider, foglamp, grille, radiator support, mount panel. Oh, and there’s even at least one part there I’m not sure exists – the headlight bucket should be part of the headlight assembly, not separate?
They also seem to be assigning labor for work on the door, which is undamaged, and of course there’s no consideration given to the repair of any parts like the hood or fender, just a wholesale replacement.
I’m just baffled by this whole thing. And I tried calling my insurance company to say, hey, there’s really no need to make this a total loss, the damage just isn’t that bad, but because this has already been registered with the North Carolina Insurance Something Agency Department Something Something Bureau, there’s no way to change or amend or cancel or anything. It’s done. The Rubicon has been crossed, someone said alea iacta est, and that’s that.
Now, this may not even be bad for me; they’ll offer me some sort of payout if I want to get rid of the car, which could be decent money, or, should I decide to keep it (and I will, I’m very attached to my Pao) and fix it, I’ll get some other amount, which will very likely be a good bit more than just a more realistic assessment of the repairs would have been. Whatever this costs to fix, it’s not going to be over eight grand, that I’m sure of. So I’m not sure this is even beneficial for the insurance company?
In short, I fundamentally don’t understand how insurance companies work, I think. I’m going to hope the payout will be enough for me to just fix this on my own, and then move on with my life, preparing for that next deer I suppose I’ll invariably hit. Maybe I’ll see if I can find a surplus cowcatcher?
Not Again! Stupid Deer: Cold Start
I’m An Insurance Adjuster And I’m Going To Total Your Car (And Hate Doing It)
After More Than A Year, I Finally Got My Nissan Pao Back And Damn It Feels Good Except For A Coolant Leak
Time for that five-poster I suggested in the Slack!
I’m sure that if the Autopian sponsored Hud to fly over he could whip you up something fit for driving out the back of Lightning Ridge!
I work in insurance and trust me on this, insurance companies don’t know how they work either. Total shit show for sure
For something relatively minor like that, I would never have reported it to the insurance and just fixed it on my own. With a cheap car, there is always a high risk of the insurance writing it off because their affiliated repair shop gives an inflated “insurance quote” repair estimate.
Oof, I feel you, and I’m just as baffled.
A bit over 20 years ago, I was in a rear-end crash (my fault!) in my Sentra SE-R in Detroit. I hit a Taurus, the impact on my car was taken above the bumper. Repair estimate added up to whatever, they compared to the value of a ~9yo SE-R, and decided to total it. I knew this was wrong. I *knew* it. My car could be easily repaired correctly and for not that amount of money. Fortunately, someone on the mailing list for the car was a claims adjuster for my company (State Farm), agredd with my assessment, gave me advice on how to handle it, and the names of my adjuster’s boss and their boss in case I needed to escalate. It worked, they fixed it, and I’ve been driving it for another ~22 years.
A year and a half ago I hit a deer in Ohio in my Saab SPG. I was afraid, and fairly convinced, that State Farm was going to total it – whatever KBB says about the value of an ’85 SPG, it has little to nothing to do with its actual value. Fortunately they came through for me. A local Saab shop recommended a body shop that had repaired 900s, and this shop was in-network for State Farm. I sent them photos and they said sure, we can fix that, but you have to find your own parts. A few months later I’d done that and had them fix it, and they did a great job. All I paid was my $100 deductible. Then I realized that I hadn’t gotten paid for the parts I bought – I called them, explained the situation and they said sure, we deal with this. Send us whatever evidence you have of what you paid for the parts – I did, and they PayPaled me the cost. They really came through. It was around this time that I finally put my old cars on classic policies to lower my risk.
I’m especially sorry that their decision to total the car cannot be undone – in Illinois, I could cancel the claim at any time before the car is fixed. Perhaps in the future in a situation like that, it’s better to get an estimate from a body shop (in network, ideally) before you ever get insurance involved, so that you have something realistic that you’re happy with that you can take to the insurance company.
And the award for dirtiest-looking completely innocuous term goes to…
I’ve told the story enough times that I won’t repeat it all here, but I had the same thing happen to my Corvette. Insurance wanted to total it for some absurdly low valuation, I argued, and through the wonder of salvage title loopholes in my state I got the car back, fully repaired, with a clean title, and came out $1500 ahead. I expect insurance karma will balance the scales at some point, but for the moment I enjoy getting the better of the insurance company for a change.
I had a similar experience in 1986 when the idiot suddenly stopped in the middle of the intersection. My 1971 Alfa Romeo 1750A Berlina suffered the minor front-end damage, which only needed the new front clip, chrome trim, grille, and headlamp bezels (all of them would be easily sourced from the part cars at Alfa Veloce service centre in Plano).
The adjuster determined my car a total loss and offered me a pittance of $800. A several days later, he was forced to raise the price to $2,500 (still a pittance) after he got an earful from Alfa Veloce owner. I got to keep the car, but my father took the money and bought a 1982 Buick Skylard for me without my knowledge and titled it in my name. He told me I could sell it if I wanted, knowing I would have hard time selling the crap-o-mobile. A few unhappy years later, he told me to get rid of it because of the engine fire damage that left the car with insatiable appetite for petrol.
Been there, and am convinced it is because you do not fit into the computer data base.
We had, as individuals not a company, a small van, a Citroën C15 D. Buying it took a bit of running around for the garage, they did not know how to register the VAT tax, because almost everyone else buying the van claims back VAT as a company.
When four years later, an idiot in a Mazda drove in freezing temperatures as if it was summer and smacked into my wife, the damage did not look too bad — front fender, light, and check chassis not bent.
But they wrote it off straight away. Asked why and eventually got the whisper that “the computer” would not accept processing the claim with us as individuals.
I imagine a small 1990s Japanese car will lead to screen freezes straight away.
Alright story time. This is somewhat relevant as it involves insurance and part of it happened within 45 minutes of the Raleigh/Durham area.
In 2016 I purchased my first Miata after wanting one since I was in elementary school. It was a repossessed 99 with the “PEP” package. It was listed on Craigslist for $1500 and the ad said it was believed it didn’t run. I went up to look at it since I had seen the car sitting near my apartment at the location of the business that had listed it. It was pretty solid looking. The employee told me that the previous owner called them and said the engine was blown and to come get the car because he wasn’t making any further payments. They weren’t sure if this was true because they forgot to close the trunk and it had filled with water to the point the battery was submerged(typical Wilmington rain). I offered $500 with the promise it would be gone that same day and within 30 minutes I had a signed and notarized clean title for my shiny new Miata. The engine was in fact knocking so with the help of some friends I pulled my first ever engine and put the car on a u-haul trailer destined for my parents house north of Raleigh/Durham.
On a whim, I had added the $30 insurance policy when it was offered. “Why not?” I thought. So off the car goes. Two and a half hours later and less than 10 minutes from my parents house where I was going to be doing the work a deer runs out of the woods, clips the trailer, and somersaults straight into my engineless new Miata destroying a headlight, fender, and the drivers door. I was absolutely sick to my stomach. However, I filed a claim with u-haul and after a shockingly easy process of sending in pictures of the damage and a few phone calls I received a check for $2300. I was able to procure a new headlight, and a same color fender and door for $350. The rest basically paid for my “new” engine and I treated myself to a Flyin Miata axleback exhaust with the remaining. But this was just the start for my beloved Tic-Tac…
A year and a half later roughly and I have now retrofitted a Mazdaspeed Miata turbo system onto my Miata. I am on the way to a UNCW basketball game when traffic comes to a sudden stop, that is, with the exception of the sorority girl piloting the Jetta behind me which hits me with enough force that my radio comes out of the dashboard and the cap comes off my coolant reservoir. We exchange info and I limp the car the mile back to my apartment realizing partway back as the violent shaking started that something was definitely damaged in the drivetrain. After assessing the car there is 0 cosmetic damage due to my bumper being cut allowing it to flex and my tow hooks having taken the hit but my differential arm is broken and it is hanging down with my shifter barely visible(it was a bit cold outside to be fair). Thus began a 3 month battle with USAA where they repeatedly offered me $0 due to not having visible damage despite the car being undriveable. At the time I was a senior at UNCW with a lot on my plate and no time for the 55 calls I had placed to them without a single person ever having responded directly. Eventually with the intervention of the local Mazda parts manager and my dad letting them know the next call would be from a lawyer they relented and paid for the replacement differential to be installed. So the dealer installed a new diff, and I took the broken one with me since they were going to throw it away. Ended up selling the Torsen chunk removed from the broken housing for around $700. But we aren’t done…
Six months or so later I swapped that diff out for one with a better ratio for my newly acquired positive pressure and, lo and behold, it was an open diff not a Torsen(despite inaccurate markings on the housing and paperwork). I took it back to the dealer and walked into the parts department carrying the entire diff then left with a check for the amount insurance paid for it. At this point I have claimed more money off insurance than I have in it. And this pattern still wasn’t done.
A week after getting the car back I was rear-ended a second time but this was a case of them just rolling into me at a light <5mph. I did not pursue this one although the sorority girl(yes again) that hit me was very unpleasant about me making her wait while a police report was obtained. My then girlfriend now wife, who was also with me the first time I got hit, told her in no unclear terms that we did not care about her running late and that she could stop complaining which resulted in her pouting in her Volvo until the police arrived. I was then hit in a parking lot with no note which resulted in in my third driver fender, and a Jeep and I tried to occupy a lane at the same time resulting in my fourth driver fender. The Jeep and I accepted equal fault and shook hands on this one. We are on to the hopefully last time.
The big one. I left my job and was sitting at a red light where the two people in front of me were road raging. Suddenly, the Dodge Ram in front of me threw it in reverse and despite my horn screaming backed up on to my hood. I saw his spare tire under the bed through my windshield. He was very apologetic and even started crying at one point. When the police arrived he admitted full fault and by the next morning when I called his insurance he had already made the claim and told them he was totally at fault. This was the easiest insurance experience of my life, which was surprising with it being The General. I spent less than 15 min on the phone and they had an adjuster out within 3 days. The adjuster had already filled out the paperwork knowing the car was totaled and expecting me to buy it back. I was offered a settlement of $2400 after buyback of the car. However after asking I was told to send them receipts for aftermarket parts. I sent upwards of $9,000 in receipts to cover the turbo parts, aftermarket ECU, hardtop, rollbar, etc. Ultimately I received $6,700 after buyback on my car. I spent around $2500 having the core support replaced, work on a frame machine, and a new hood, headlights, front bumper, and hood latch along with a full respray(now Toyota Super Red II). Within a few weeks I was back daily driving it with my new salvage title and happy as could be.
I never plan on selling the car so the salvage title isn’t an issue for me and my insurance company didn’t mind so no big deal there. I am hoping the bright red paint job continues to keep my little Miata out of harms way. That, and it being driven significantly less since it has become more aggressive with the modifications. I hope you enjoyed my shortstory and if you read this far thanks for taking the time because I enjoy telling the story of my Mazda branded phoenix’s rebirths.
Great story – this is what I come here for
A short, related entry – in 1998 I was in an accident in my ’97 Pontiac Sunfire GT. Woop woop. Anyway, they gave the car back and I drove it, and immediately had another crash because neither the adjustor nor the shop noticed the front brake lines were crushed, resulting in zero braking power (I mean, enough to scoot from the paint bay to the parking lot). Anyway I almost had to sue Farmer’s, but luckily I was friends with an attorney who managed to get them to admit fault and repair my car again, including the brakes AND the punctured radiator, which was also missed.
Those are really big items to miss! I was lucky when the ram hit me that my radiator was completely untouched. I think my intercooler brackets protected it.
It’s been my experience you have to almost harass the adjustor to get a mechanical inspection.
With USAA I placed 55 phone calls over 3 months and never spoke to the agent assigned to the case. I requested a new one and the parts GM of the Mazda dealer knew the local adjuster so between the two of those and my dad letting them know we had contacted a lawyer it was resolved quickly at that point. USAA is dead to my family though, and we have been considering all switching over to them. My uncle also had a hard time getting them to pay when his truck was hit by a drunk driver while street parked. The General agent was very responsive and easy to work with though as was the U-Haul one.
Does this mean The General is a good carrier?
I cannot say from a customer perspective since they were his provider and not mine, but they were certainly easy to deal with from my end. As was the provider for U-Haul(I don’t recall the name). Much easier than USAA who were an absolute nightmare.
Use the extra money to have one of David’s Aussie friends come over and install a roo-bar.
Just a thought – an “ask me anything” or article in partnership with Hagerty would be a pretty interesting article. I’m sure everyone here would behave themselves and not jump all over this person, but there are so many questions folks have, it could be a great reference point and of course further advertising for Hagerty. OR, one of their competitors for that matter. Any well-established classic car insurance company would be really interesting to talk to.
I hit a deer with my K3500 and it put a nasty crease in the front license plate.
My dad is definitely in the double digits on his 01 F-150. I am not sure he even slows down any more. He is much more careful in his 21 Ranger.
Having been through an annoying number of insurance claims lately (in the middle of the third in the last year), that is certainly not the end of the game unless you want it to be. Easily rectified. You’re not going to find any comps, so forget that. Get a repair quote, submit it, and they’ll adjust it down. Alternatively, and this is a bit cynical, take the payout, get it repaired for obviously much cheaper, and you/this car are practically celebrities, this incident will be well known, so when you have a salvage title to explain, you can just point here, and no one crazy enough to buy it off you is going to hold it against you.
Required:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACpNVD5GMUw
Like a bad neighbor, State Farm doesn’t care. ( ಠ‿<)
I’m just wondering why living in the great state of NC you’re filing all these insurance claims? If you can drive it home then head out to the pick-ur-part and call it good. Acting like some fancy high falutin’ yankee or some such.
Pick-your-part for a Pao? Even for a normal car, why do that when you can get paid out for the damages and then use a junkyard to save money?
Getting paid out short term but rates go up in the long term, plus the salvage title dings resale(not that anyone would resell their Pao). The pick-ur-part was a bit of a joke, but if it’s just part replacement and repaint the parts could be ordered and then bring it to a nice local shop for matching. Or maybe even shop around and buy a rattier 2nd Pao with the parts needed as these deer seem relentless in their crusade to destroy all Paos.
There aren’t any “ratty” Paos driving around because they’re all JDM imports. No one is going to import a trash heap, they’re going to import the best example they can find which will run at least 10k minimum. They wouldn’t be used as a parts car and you would never find one in a US junkyard.
Once in a while you do find a dealer that imports a junky Pao or Figaro, usually because they got it real cheap an an auction in Japan or the UK and figure they can respray it and throw in new seat covers and send it out the door at a profit. Have seen where they’ll offer it as-is for a period of time to see if there’s any takers, then send it for paint and re-list at a jacked up price
Back in 2011, we had just purchased a 2001 Volvo V70. Drove it to a friend’s July 4th party a couple days later and there was a huge hail storm (Colorado). The insurance company totaled it even though it was just cosmetic damage. We took the settlement (which basically made it a free car), and drove it for years without any issues. Gave it to my oldest son back in 2017 and it’s still his daily driver.
Take the settlement and go on with your life. You were never planning to sell the Pao anyway.
This one is pretty surprising. My Thunderbird SC didn’t surprise me as I did a rough parts estimate on my own and putting that with labor costs got it to the 75%. I wonder if they dropped the value of your car after the last collision so it was much easier to hit the threshold? It just sucks because your car will always be branded as a “salvage” when you fix it and people just assume the worst when they see that on the title.
Last time I popped a deer, I was in my 2007 Golf (haha) and was able to drive away. Because the headlight bolt ear on the core support snapped off, it would’ve needed a new one, which entails a ton of labor, so they totalled it. I was offered $4,800 to give it up and $4,400 to keep it.
Duh! Fixed the headlight myself, sold it for $2,300.
According to that popular website that helps you research your family tree, Gene Nissan is a distant cousin to Joe Isuzu.
COTD candidate.
Full stop Jason: A couple of things from a guy who knows these things. 1. You can Settle and take their (lowball) valuation. 2. You can choose to retain the vehicle and they will subtract a “salvage value/fee” which they will say is decided by Copart or IAA and you will get the remainder of that lowball valuation after the salvage is subtracted. *The VIN will now have a salvage title, which may be a headache and will also drastically lower the value should you decide to sell it (%30-40% less value) 3. You can tell them nevermind and withdraw the claim. You’d have to fix it out of pocket, but the car retains it’s title status as clean and based on that estimate, they “fluffed” it up. It won’t need 85% of that stuff. As for the settlement: They will offer you a settlement for the “valuation” of the car, which should be based on comparable vehicles. I’d push HARD for getting that number high. Use Duncan Imports or others for comparable PAO of same year, mileage, trim. These are appreciating in value, so it would be a win for you but I’d personally just keep the car. Get them to manually add comparable vehicles. The adjuster will push you to decide, take your time. The offers don’t expire. Make sure they update the comps with CCC, the “valuation” company. It’s a specialty vehicle, so it may take time. If you need other insurance info, message me.
Tidbit of info on that estimate: The underlined stuff means it was not assigned by the CCC software and was manually entered. So those prices and labor times may have been googled by the adjuster or ballparked, and that headlight bucket might be a wild guess.
Finally, get your rare PAO and Beetle insured for an Agreed Value with an insurance company who likes classics like Haggerty. *I have no affiliation with them, nor do I have the luxury of owning a classic that needs that insurance.
What a great reply.
When my Volt was totaled for a dent in the rear quarter panel (yes, really) they said I couldn’t withdraw the claim and that once it was determined to be totaled that was it, and my options were take the money or take less money and keep the car with an R title. Is that a state-by-state situation or were they possibly lying to me?
It differs by state. NC is one of the more anal-retentive when it comes to issues surrounding salvage titles.
Gotcha. This was PA. I was just so pissed about the whole thing, if I knew they were going to total my car I would have just driven around with it dented.
TriangleRAD is correct, it is state dependent. That really stinks. Insurance is even more touchy about repairing EVs due to liability of battery issues/damage/fires.
I dunno how rapaciously venal insurance co.s are over the pond (jokes!), but certainly over here on Brexit Island, I wouldn’t be letting my insurance company know the first thing about damage that easy to fix, so that my descendants won’t still be feeling the financial hit in 50 years time. Fix it out of pocket, fo sho.
Is there any other kind?
Well-cooked?
Delicious!
Kung Pao Venison?
That should be what Torch calls this car from now on
Roast Venison.
https://www.greedygourmet.com/recipes-by-course/main-course/roast-venison/
You’re insuring a 34YO shitbox for collision damage wit $100 deductible? I question your sanity for even filing a claim for a headlight door.
It’s so weird that insurance companies have any say in this. Over here, they don’t. Sure, if the cost to repair is more than 10% higher than the cost to replace the car, they will not pay for the whole repair (but only the cost to replace), but if you want to repair it anyway, you of course can. You just have to pay for the repair yourself (minus the cost of replacement, which the insurance company will pay out). It’s your car, not theirs.
You can also have them pay the estimated cost of repair and then not repair it (if it is still safe to drive without the repair).
A $100 deductible? Just as I did when I found out David was livin’ it up on the Westside, I wonder now why The Autopian needs my membership money if they can afford to pay you enough to afford that kind of coverage, even in rate-regulated North Carolina.
Hey Jason, did you kidnap the deer princess or something like that?