I’m very fortunate to have interesting and kind people living next door to me. I haven’t always had that; my old neighbors in Los Angeles used to yell at my wife and me if we were being, um, intimate in our own bedroom, and the neighbor on the other side of us wanted to pick fights over trash can placement. My current neighbors are, especially by comparison, saints. They also are Tesla Model Y owners, and today their Model Y – which has been quite trouble-free up until now, they assure me, and I believe them – had a really confusing failure that indirectly caused the driver’s side window to shatter, because of what I think is a really terrible bit of design. I’ll explain.
So, when they tried to use the car today, they found the driver’s side door would not open. They went to the other side, which did open, and got in, and found that there were a number of warnings and alerts on the display.
The warnings seemed to suggest some issue with the 12V battery, which caused a whole cascade of issues. But the bigger issue came as a consequence of the car’s strange power situation; some aspects of the car seemed to have power, some didn’t. Wanting to investigate more, my neighbor wanted to get into the driver’s seat, so she would have access to all the controls, etc. It makes sense, I’d want that, too.
So, she tried to open the door from the outside, and had no luck. She remembered there was an emergency door release, so she pulled that reaching over from the passenger’s side to get the door open, and was rewarded with a sickening crack as the driver’s side window cracked. Alarmed, she closed the door, which just made the cracks even bigger, effectively shattering the window, though for now it’s still holding together. But it’s very boned:
At this point she called me to come take a look. I brought a battery analyzer/charger to see how the 12V battery was doing, and it checked out okay, just with 50% charge. Not great, but not dead-dead. The bigger issues seemed to be that, for some reason, the doors on the driver’s side of the car had no power, the tailgate only had partial power (latch seemed to work, but the power struts to lift/close it were dead) and the lights were strange. The DRL on the left worked, but not the right, and the turn indicators worked only on the right up front and the left rear.
Looking on the internet, the power issue could be one of the body controllers, which seem to be named VCLeft, VCRight, VCFront, etc. That’s definitely annoying, but if that is what’s going on, that’s a module that can be swapped out and fixed. The bigger and more maddening issue here is the shattered window.
What I find absurd is that opening a door – even in an “emergency” context – could cause so much damage to the car. What happened is pretty clear, once you see it: for a Tesla Model Y’s doors to safely open, the window must drop down about an inch to clear the weatherstripping and molding on the body. If it doesn’t, the window gets caught, gets torqued, and shatters, just like what happened to my neighbor.
Now, this is something of a known problem. In fact, Tesla had a sort-of fix for this, where they made sure that when the emergency door release was activated, the window would drop down, just like if the normal latch had been used. That’s great for preventing people from accidentally using the emergency release in normal circumstances (which seems to happen a fair amount, from chatter on the forums, and the fact that people sell these stickers) but if the car has no power, or, like in my neighbor’s situation, partial power, then it doesn’t matter, since that window can’t go down without power.
Even Tesla’s own Model Y owner’s manual says to use the emergency release in situations where there is no power, but no mention is made of the fact that it’s very likely the window will shatter if you use it:
I suppose if you open the door really slowly and carefully, you can maybe get by without cracking the window, but this is specifically for emergencies, when slowly and carefully just isn’t really on the menu. Also, the way my neighbor opened the car wasn’t exactly panicked; it was just normal door-opening effort. If that window doesn’t drop down, it’s going to break.
Tesla suggests that in the case of getting out of a Model Y with no power, you use the rear seat doors instead, which don’t need to drop their windows. So, that means Tesla wants you to climb over the seats into the back, then go through this simple procedure to open the doors:
See! It’s a simple three-step process that just asks you to remove the mat from the inside of the rear door pocket. Easy!
Power issues aside, this is absolutely maddening, I think. Is there any good reason that the doors should work like this? I get that frameless doors are cool, but they’re not that cool, especially not cool enough to justify broken window glass. And other cars with frameless doors somehow manage to avoid this problem. Here’s some people talking about just this issue – where the window normally drops a bit to open the door, but for some reason, can’t – on a Volkswagen Arteon forum, and the Arteon’s frameless door design manages to avoid shattering the window:
“You are still able to open the door even without power. The glass will just bend past the seal. For closing the door without power you just have to tuck it underneath the seal. This is what might happen if you forget to add a silicone lubricant at the bottom of the window after a car wash in the winter. My experience is from living in Norway with it.”
This is how I’ve seen most frameless doors work, where they just press the glass against a rubber weatherstripping seal and sometimes have a flexible seal in front of the glass, too. But never a rigid bezel that can get in the way and, you know, break the damn window. The only other car I could find evidence of a similar problem was the McLaren MP4-12C. The owner’s manual for that car even has a sort of warning about this:
That’s a McLaren, though, not a best-selling mass-market EV. Still sucks, of course.
Really, the whole powered latch for a door is a bit ridiculous as it is; opening car doors was a pretty solved problem, even without power assists. It’s just not needed. Did anyone want these?
The fact that my neighbors had a problem with their car, and through no fault of their own ended up with an entirely unrelated and expensive other problem just because of what is really a deeply stupid design just feels maddening. It’s such an unforced error, and if there’s a good reason it’s like this, I can’t figure out what it would be. I know there are other cars that lower their windows a bit when opening/closing the doors, but I’ve not heard of any that will actually shatter their own windows when the battery is dead.
Why was this ever considered okay? After seeing how easily this happens firsthand, I’m sort of appalled. Having the power issues is enough of a pain; the power issues leading to a whole window being shattered just feels like being kicked when you’re down. Who needs that?
Hopefully, this will all be fixed; I’ll try and report back on what the fixes are and how expensive, and, ideally, what Tesla service has to say about breaking windows to open doors.
Yet another reason new cars suck especially Tesla junk/EV trash
“Features” that are just so damn stupid, make no sense, are pointless, cause more problems, make things unnecessarily complicated, are expensive to fix and pushing things backwards.
IF IT’S NOT BROKE, DON’T FIX IT!!!
(The hilarious irony is that they tried to “fix” stuff w/ these dumb “features” then it caused something else to break! Like in this instance)
“Really, the whole powered latch for a door is a bit ridiculous as it is; opening car doors was a pretty solved problem, even without power assists. It’s just not needed. Did anyone want these?”
Exactly…and to anyone who wants all junk like this: you are the biggest dummy in the world, and that ever lived! Get a life since you don’t have one
Yet another reason new cars suck especially Tesla junk/EV trash
“Features” that are just so damn stupid, make no sense, are pointless, cause more problems, make things unnecessarily complicated, are expensive to fix and pushing things backwards.
IF IT’S NOT BROKE, DON’T FIX IT!!!
(The hilarious irony is that they tried to “fix” stuff w/ these dumb “features” then it caused something else to break! Like in this instance)
“Really, the whole powered latch for a door is a bit ridiculous as it is; opening car doors was a pretty solved problem, even without power assists. It’s just not needed. Did anyone want these?”
Exactly…and to anyone who wants all junk like this: you are the biggest dummy in the world, and that ever lived! Get a life since you don’t have one
Bottom line here is that electric doors are not a great idea. If you need an emergency way to open a primary door something doesn’t make sense.
But I have a weird perspective on automobile design as well as life.
And I don’t think the Muskrat even gives a shit about it at all.
Bottom line here is that electric doors are not a great idea. If you need an emergency way to open a primary door something doesn’t make sense.
But I have a weird perspective on automobile design as well as life.
And I don’t think the Muskrat even gives a shit about it at all.
It definitely feels like you could add 12¢ of cables and pulleys to mechanically lower the window a few mm when the emergency release latch was pulled. Just wire a cable from its actuating lever to the window track and yank the window down.
It definitely feels like you could add 12¢ of cables and pulleys to mechanically lower the window a few mm when the emergency release latch was pulled. Just wire a cable from its actuating lever to the window track and yank the window down.
Why am I not surprised by this, BC its Tesla. Why people buy these I do not understand.
I’m in the process of buying one. Why? It does the core car stuff like “drive” really, really well. The powertrain is also years ahead of anyone else’s available in the US. And the amount of space inside the body panels is better than a Honda Fit. It’s like the Millennium Falcon of cars. Got it where it counts yet there’s always something broken.
Tesla as a company is a disorganized mess. One hand is definitely not talking to the other. My ordering process has been far from smooth.
Sounds like it would be better to buy a crashed Tesla and swap the drivetrain into another platform. If the ordering process was a headache I’d just walk away, regardless of my emotional investment. Life is too short for those hassles.
I giggled at the contrast between the things you think life is and isn’t too short for 🙂
I’m not emotionally invested. It’s a car, and a common one at that. This is a “capability upgrade” purchase, not a “need transportation now” purchase. So their being a hot mess with the ordering is a source of comedy at the moment. At this point I’ve paid more for less entertainment before. I do kind of feel bad for the overwhelmed people I’m dealing with since they’re definitely stressed. Then again, Tesla made some IMO poor choices that are circling back to roost and causing this process to be the hot mess it is.
Why am I not surprised by this, BC its Tesla. Why people buy these I do not understand.
I’m in the process of buying one. Why? It does the core car stuff like “drive” really, really well. The powertrain is also years ahead of anyone else’s available in the US. And the amount of space inside the body panels is better than a Honda Fit. It’s like the Millennium Falcon of cars. Got it where it counts yet there’s always something broken.
Tesla as a company is a disorganized mess. One hand is definitely not talking to the other. My ordering process has been far from smooth.
Sounds like it would be better to buy a crashed Tesla and swap the drivetrain into another platform. If the ordering process was a headache I’d just walk away, regardless of my emotional investment. Life is too short for those hassles.
I giggled at the contrast between the things you think life is and isn’t too short for 🙂
I’m not emotionally invested. It’s a car, and a common one at that. This is a “capability upgrade” purchase, not a “need transportation now” purchase. So their being a hot mess with the ordering is a source of comedy at the moment. At this point I’ve paid more for less entertainment before. I do kind of feel bad for the overwhelmed people I’m dealing with since they’re definitely stressed. Then again, Tesla made some IMO poor choices that are circling back to roost and causing this process to be the hot mess it is.
I have a feeling the frameless doors are just a cost cutting feature for tesla because they didn’t want to spend a few bucks on the steel to go around the frame. Seems about right for them
I have a feeling the frameless doors are just a cost cutting feature for tesla because they didn’t want to spend a few bucks on the steel to go around the frame. Seems about right for them
I have never seen a company that has so much contempt for their customers, who eagerly bend over for the abuse. The “whippings will continue until morale improves” school of customer service.
I have never seen a company that has so much contempt for their customers, who eagerly bend over for the abuse. The “whippings will continue until morale improves” school of customer service.
That makes me laugh, I would be so over the moon pissed. Tesla really does just throw some junk out there. It does highlight the problem with 12volt batteries. It is just not robust enough for modern vehicles. 48volt architecture is really needed. It leaves a lot of extra headroom to run all of the power hungry components in today’s cars.
That makes me laugh, I would be so over the moon pissed. Tesla really does just throw some junk out there. It does highlight the problem with 12volt batteries. It is just not robust enough for modern vehicles. 48volt architecture is really needed. It leaves a lot of extra headroom to run all of the power hungry components in today’s cars.
It’s really quite amazing that these dunces managed to screw up frameless windows.
It’s really quite amazing that these dunces managed to screw up frameless windows.
The Porsche Boxster is like this, or at least the first year is. You can’t open the doors or the trunk where the battery lives without power. The solution is to plug a thing into the cigarette lighter to boost the battery. But you can’t open the doors without dropping the windows and you can’t drop the windows without power. I forget what the eventual solution is. I think it involves splicing into the wiring with another battery.
I have memories of my father having to do this on one of our old 7 series or maybe an S class in a similar situation. Pop the trunk, remove the cover from the dome light, and charge through there until there was enough power to actually get into the car.
The boxter has a manual hood release behind a headlight, but you have to pull the plastic liner out of the inner fender to get to it which cracks the liner. Guess how I know…
Now I remember. My sister’s boxster now has a bit of wire connected to the release that passes through a hole in the liner. I think there is also now a thing that looks like a trailer tail light hookup for a trickle charger that can bootstrap the entry process. Belt and suspenders you know.
Now, if only we could figure out who Manuel is.
The Porsche Boxster is like this, or at least the first year is. You can’t open the doors or the trunk where the battery lives without power. The solution is to plug a thing into the cigarette lighter to boost the battery. But you can’t open the doors without dropping the windows and you can’t drop the windows without power. I forget what the eventual solution is. I think it involves splicing into the wiring with another battery.
I have memories of my father having to do this on one of our old 7 series or maybe an S class in a similar situation. Pop the trunk, remove the cover from the dome light, and charge through there until there was enough power to actually get into the car.
The boxter has a manual hood release behind a headlight, but you have to pull the plastic liner out of the inner fender to get to it which cracks the liner. Guess how I know…
Now I remember. My sister’s boxster now has a bit of wire connected to the release that passes through a hole in the liner. I think there is also now a thing that looks like a trailer tail light hookup for a trickle charger that can bootstrap the entry process. Belt and suspenders you know.
Now, if only we could figure out who Manuel is.
I have an ’08 Pontiac G6 GT convertible, and it has frameless windows that drop when you open the doors. When my battery died, they still opened just fine. They wouldn’t raise back up until I’d replaced the battery, and they had to be indexed once I had.
But no breakage!
I have an ’08 Pontiac G6 GT convertible, and it has frameless windows that drop when you open the doors. When my battery died, they still opened just fine. They wouldn’t raise back up until I’d replaced the battery, and they had to be indexed once I had.
But no breakage!
The reason the window needs to drop like it does is for wind noise. The glass rises slightly when the door closes so that the glass fully seats into the window seal. It makes a huge difference especially since there is no engine noise to mask the wind noise. The Model Y is also not nearly the first to have this feature. IIRC, the first car to use this idea was the 1960 Lincoln Continental convertible, but only on the rear windows. They were vacuum operated and when there was no engine vacuum, you couldn’t open the doors. It showed up again on the 1990 BMW 8 series. I don’t know what cars have it today, but I do know my 2015 Mustang has it. I don’t know what happens when there is no power, but I’ve never heard of issues so is probably isn’t a problem. Sounds like Tesla just made the glass dig into the seal a bit too much.
Just ask any diesel Mercedes owner about the interaction of the doors and the vacuum system or turning the car off and the vacuum system.
Since there is no electrical ignition system, turning the ignition off, won’t stop the engine since the fuel injection is pure the mechanical removing all electricity won’t stop the engine so they have this groovy little thing it’s powered by vacuum to stop the engine. Oh, but diesels have no engine vacuum so they have Vacuum pump mostly for the brakes and the central locking system, but also to shut the engine off. Fortunately, the people at Mercedes are pretty smart so the turn your engine off function fails before the brake system fails which I appreciate but It can make for some pretty amusing valet parking when you come back three hours later and the engine is still running.
That sounds… amazing and ridiculous all at once.
Unrelated, but it reminds me of nitro drag cars, where the spark plugs are completely consumed by the 1/8th mile and the engine is dieseling on the compression and the heat in the heads, and the only way to stop the thing is to cut the fuel.
Cutting the fuel is how all old diesels stop. The mechanical injection pumps have a solenoid valve which is open when 12V is applied and closes with no power. Of all the diesels I’ve ever owned (german, french, italian) they were all electric, my gramps had a Merc and I don’t remember that one, maybe it was vacuum-operated, like Hugh above^^ said.
One time my Citroen wouldn’t start because the cut-off solenoid died (applying 12V to it wouldn’t make it ‘click’, so I knew it was dead). All I had to do was unscrew it (all I had was an adjustable wrench, but it was on top of the pump, you’d see it by just opening the hood), remove the plunger, put it back and start it up. When I wanted to stop the engine I’d put it in gear and dump the clutch.
The thing that was cool about the old Mercedes diesels was that in theory they could be operated with no electrical system whatsoever. One time just for fun we tried bump starting a 220 D. Or maybe because the battery would not take a charge and none of the cars available had the amps to jump start it. All the farmer engineer antics blend together after 40 years.
Tip to YouTube content creators: it’s a pretty hysterical process and would probably get lots of views. Oh, make sure it’s a reasonably warm day and you have a hundred yards at least of clean pavement. Oh, and a manual transmission Mercedes. Maybe a quarter mile on a cold day? Hell, on a cold day you could make something epic.
The reason the window needs to drop like it does is for wind noise. The glass rises slightly when the door closes so that the glass fully seats into the window seal. It makes a huge difference especially since there is no engine noise to mask the wind noise. The Model Y is also not nearly the first to have this feature. IIRC, the first car to use this idea was the 1960 Lincoln Continental convertible, but only on the rear windows. They were vacuum operated and when there was no engine vacuum, you couldn’t open the doors. It showed up again on the 1990 BMW 8 series. I don’t know what cars have it today, but I do know my 2015 Mustang has it. I don’t know what happens when there is no power, but I’ve never heard of issues so is probably isn’t a problem. Sounds like Tesla just made the glass dig into the seal a bit too much.
Just ask any diesel Mercedes owner about the interaction of the doors and the vacuum system or turning the car off and the vacuum system.
Since there is no electrical ignition system, turning the ignition off, won’t stop the engine since the fuel injection is pure the mechanical removing all electricity won’t stop the engine so they have this groovy little thing it’s powered by vacuum to stop the engine. Oh, but diesels have no engine vacuum so they have Vacuum pump mostly for the brakes and the central locking system, but also to shut the engine off. Fortunately, the people at Mercedes are pretty smart so the turn your engine off function fails before the brake system fails which I appreciate but It can make for some pretty amusing valet parking when you come back three hours later and the engine is still running.
That sounds… amazing and ridiculous all at once.
Unrelated, but it reminds me of nitro drag cars, where the spark plugs are completely consumed by the 1/8th mile and the engine is dieseling on the compression and the heat in the heads, and the only way to stop the thing is to cut the fuel.
Cutting the fuel is how all old diesels stop. The mechanical injection pumps have a solenoid valve which is open when 12V is applied and closes with no power. Of all the diesels I’ve ever owned (german, french, italian) they were all electric, my gramps had a Merc and I don’t remember that one, maybe it was vacuum-operated, like Hugh above^^ said.
One time my Citroen wouldn’t start because the cut-off solenoid died (applying 12V to it wouldn’t make it ‘click’, so I knew it was dead). All I had to do was unscrew it (all I had was an adjustable wrench, but it was on top of the pump, you’d see it by just opening the hood), remove the plunger, put it back and start it up. When I wanted to stop the engine I’d put it in gear and dump the clutch.
The thing that was cool about the old Mercedes diesels was that in theory they could be operated with no electrical system whatsoever. One time just for fun we tried bump starting a 220 D. Or maybe because the battery would not take a charge and none of the cars available had the amps to jump start it. All the farmer engineer antics blend together after 40 years.
Tip to YouTube content creators: it’s a pretty hysterical process and would probably get lots of views. Oh, make sure it’s a reasonably warm day and you have a hundred yards at least of clean pavement. Oh, and a manual transmission Mercedes. Maybe a quarter mile on a cold day? Hell, on a cold day you could make something epic.
Clever design like this is why Elon deserves $56 billion dollars!
Clever design like this is why Elon deserves $56 billion dollars!
That rear door procedure ought to be actually illegal. That is insane. It should have failed safety tests, it should have failed accessibility tests, it should never have gone into production as it is. Absolutely galling.
The worst part is the little disclaimer saying that not all Model Ys even have a manual release for the rear doors. So Tesla’s recommended method for a power failure is to crawl into the back seat and use manual releases that your car might not even have! Fucking brilliant.
It’s like one of those fire extinguishers stuck behind a “break glass in emergency” cover, except the glass is opaque, and there’s only a 50/50 chance there’s actually an extinguisher inside.