I’m very fortunate to have interesting and kind people living next door to me. I haven’t always had that; my old neighbors in Los Angeles used to yell at my wife and me if we were being, um, intimate in our own bedroom, and the neighbor on the other side of us wanted to pick fights over trash can placement. My current neighbors are, especially by comparison, saints. They also are Tesla Model Y owners, and today their Model Y – which has been quite trouble-free up until now, they assure me, and I believe them – had a really confusing failure that indirectly caused the driver’s side window to shatter, because of what I think is a really terrible bit of design. I’ll explain.
So, when they tried to use the car today, they found the driver’s side door would not open. They went to the other side, which did open, and got in, and found that there were a number of warnings and alerts on the display.
The warnings seemed to suggest some issue with the 12V battery, which caused a whole cascade of issues. But the bigger issue came as a consequence of the car’s strange power situation; some aspects of the car seemed to have power, some didn’t. Wanting to investigate more, my neighbor wanted to get into the driver’s seat, so she would have access to all the controls, etc. It makes sense, I’d want that, too.
So, she tried to open the door from the outside, and had no luck. She remembered there was an emergency door release, so she pulled that reaching over from the passenger’s side to get the door open, and was rewarded with a sickening crack as the driver’s side window cracked. Alarmed, she closed the door, which just made the cracks even bigger, effectively shattering the window, though for now it’s still holding together. But it’s very boned:
At this point she called me to come take a look. I brought a battery analyzer/charger to see how the 12V battery was doing, and it checked out okay, just with 50% charge. Not great, but not dead-dead. The bigger issues seemed to be that, for some reason, the doors on the driver’s side of the car had no power, the tailgate only had partial power (latch seemed to work, but the power struts to lift/close it were dead) and the lights were strange. The DRL on the left worked, but not the right, and the turn indicators worked only on the right up front and the left rear.
Looking on the internet, the power issue could be one of the body controllers, which seem to be named VCLeft, VCRight, VCFront, etc. That’s definitely annoying, but if that is what’s going on, that’s a module that can be swapped out and fixed. The bigger and more maddening issue here is the shattered window.
What I find absurd is that opening a door – even in an “emergency” context – could cause so much damage to the car. What happened is pretty clear, once you see it: for a Tesla Model Y’s doors to safely open, the window must drop down about an inch to clear the weatherstripping and molding on the body. If it doesn’t, the window gets caught, gets torqued, and shatters, just like what happened to my neighbor.
Now, this is something of a known problem. In fact, Tesla had a sort-of fix for this, where they made sure that when the emergency door release was activated, the window would drop down, just like if the normal latch had been used. That’s great for preventing people from accidentally using the emergency release in normal circumstances (which seems to happen a fair amount, from chatter on the forums, and the fact that people sell these stickers) but if the car has no power, or, like in my neighbor’s situation, partial power, then it doesn’t matter, since that window can’t go down without power.
Even Tesla’s own Model Y owner’s manual says to use the emergency release in situations where there is no power, but no mention is made of the fact that it’s very likely the window will shatter if you use it:
I suppose if you open the door really slowly and carefully, you can maybe get by without cracking the window, but this is specifically for emergencies, when slowly and carefully just isn’t really on the menu. Also, the way my neighbor opened the car wasn’t exactly panicked; it was just normal door-opening effort. If that window doesn’t drop down, it’s going to break.
Tesla suggests that in the case of getting out of a Model Y with no power, you use the rear seat doors instead, which don’t need to drop their windows. So, that means Tesla wants you to climb over the seats into the back, then go through this simple procedure to open the doors:
See! It’s a simple three-step process that just asks you to remove the mat from the inside of the rear door pocket. Easy!
Power issues aside, this is absolutely maddening, I think. Is there any good reason that the doors should work like this? I get that frameless doors are cool, but they’re not that cool, especially not cool enough to justify broken window glass. And other cars with frameless doors somehow manage to avoid this problem. Here’s some people talking about just this issue – where the window normally drops a bit to open the door, but for some reason, can’t – on a Volkswagen Arteon forum, and the Arteon’s frameless door design manages to avoid shattering the window:
“You are still able to open the door even without power. The glass will just bend past the seal. For closing the door without power you just have to tuck it underneath the seal. This is what might happen if you forget to add a silicone lubricant at the bottom of the window after a car wash in the winter. My experience is from living in Norway with it.”
This is how I’ve seen most frameless doors work, where they just press the glass against a rubber weatherstripping seal and sometimes have a flexible seal in front of the glass, too. But never a rigid bezel that can get in the way and, you know, break the damn window. The only other car I could find evidence of a similar problem was the McLaren MP4-12C. The owner’s manual for that car even has a sort of warning about this:
That’s a McLaren, though, not a best-selling mass-market EV. Still sucks, of course.
Really, the whole powered latch for a door is a bit ridiculous as it is; opening car doors was a pretty solved problem, even without power assists. It’s just not needed. Did anyone want these?
The fact that my neighbors had a problem with their car, and through no fault of their own ended up with an entirely unrelated and expensive other problem just because of what is really a deeply stupid design just feels maddening. It’s such an unforced error, and if there’s a good reason it’s like this, I can’t figure out what it would be. I know there are other cars that lower their windows a bit when opening/closing the doors, but I’ve not heard of any that will actually shatter their own windows when the battery is dead.
Why was this ever considered okay? After seeing how easily this happens firsthand, I’m sort of appalled. Having the power issues is enough of a pain; the power issues leading to a whole window being shattered just feels like being kicked when you’re down. Who needs that?
Hopefully, this will all be fixed; I’ll try and report back on what the fixes are and how expensive, and, ideally, what Tesla service has to say about breaking windows to open doors.
Overcomplicating things for no reason, the Tesla way
Surely, there was at least one German on the engineering staff. 🙂
My friend’s 2008 Viper has drop-down, frameless windows like this. He stores it at my garage in the winter, on a battery tender. I don’t know what would happen if the battery were to go dead, maybe we can get V10omous to chime in on this one?
Not a problem I have seen on my viper. First the window seals suck, the seal is flexible so the door will still open and the glass will drag past the seal, no breakage. The only issue would be closing the door as the glass will sit outside the seal if it is fully up, but you could retuck the window if necessary. But presumably you would have fixed your dead battery issue so you could drive the car and the window would operate normally again.
My friend’s 2008 Viper has drop-down, frameless windows like this. He stores it at my garage in the winter, on a battery tender. I don’t know what would happen if the battery were to go dead, maybe we can get V10omous to chime in on this one?
Not a problem I have seen on my viper. First the window seals suck, the seal is flexible so the door will still open and the glass will drag past the seal, no breakage. The only issue would be closing the door as the glass will sit outside the seal if it is fully up, but you could retuck the window if necessary. But presumably you would have fixed your dead battery issue so you could drive the car and the window would operate normally again.
A hybrid Camry would be a much better choice than a Tesla, if only for the benefit of decades of design improvement. And I’m a big fan of electric cars.
There must be more than one of us that suspects that some flaws in Teslas are intentional, from disgruntled employees. Tesla is not known for being kind to its workforce.
A hybrid Camry would be a much better choice than a Tesla, if only for the benefit of decades of design improvement. And I’m a big fan of electric cars.
There must be more than one of us that suspects that some flaws in Teslas are intentional, from disgruntled employees. Tesla is not known for being kind to its workforce.
That back seat egress plan is insane. I’m imaging climbing over a baby in a car seat.
Imagine having to get a child out during a wreck…
That back seat egress plan is insane. I’m imaging climbing over a baby in a car seat.
Imagine having to get a child out during a wreck…
I hate this design where the windows drop before you can open the door – even the well implanted versions like the BMW even numbered sedans. If you have a solid roof there is no reason not to have a metal window frame on the door. Sliding the window up likely does reduce cabin noise, but dropping the window creates all kinds of issues, and my memory of the GM (F, A, G etc bodies) windowless cars is they could be really quiet without this window dropping (although the seals were super wide).
My 128i does this, but I give it a pass because the door was clearly designed to work on both the coupe and the convertible. Still have to bite my tongue when passengers pull on the unsupported glass opening and closing the door. Absent a logical reason, frameless door glass is nonsense–looking at you, old Subarus.
My 2014 BRZ feels targeted by this comment. 🙂
Strong dislike of frameless windows and I also have the same tongue bite-marks from having a passenger close the door via the top of the window glass.
My Z4 has this but it isn’t a problem. If the window doesn’t lower it just gives a bit of resistance when you open the door and the window doesn’t tuck back under the seal when you close it.
I owned an third generation F-body with the frameless windows that didn’t drop and they absolutely were not quiet. Once you got up to highway speeds the window would start pulling away from the weatherstrip and you’d get some wind noise coming from the front edge. Any speeds higher than posted limits and the gap would be easily visible which of course meant it was very audible. During my years with that Camaro I tried multiple solutions to force a better seal by jamming something between the weatherstrip and the body and they helped somewhat but none were a perfect solution and weren’t nearly as good of a seal as the ones that drop and lift the window behind a better seal.
Maybe newer GMs are better but my memory of it makes me very happy with the window dropping and lifting to get a nice seal.
My e46 convertible’s door work fine even if they don’t drop down. You can still open and close them and the seal tucks correctly.
i had 5 of the frameless Subarus over the years, starting with a 91 Loyale and ending with a 2007 outback. Never had any wind or water intrusion issues. Now my 17 WRX is rusting its window frames like crazy, like it wants to return to frameless 🙂
I hate this design where the windows drop before you can open the door – even the well implanted versions like the BMW even numbered sedans. If you have a solid roof there is no reason not to have a metal window frame on the door. Sliding the window up likely does reduce cabin noise, but dropping the window creates all kinds of issues, and my memory of the GM (F, A, G etc bodies) windowless cars is they could be really quiet without this window dropping (although the seals were super wide).
My 128i does this, but I give it a pass because the door was clearly designed to work on both the coupe and the convertible. Still have to bite my tongue when passengers pull on the unsupported glass opening and closing the door. Absent a logical reason, frameless door glass is nonsense–looking at you, old Subarus.
My 2014 BRZ feels targeted by this comment. 🙂
Strong dislike of frameless windows and I also have the same tongue bite-marks from having a passenger close the door via the top of the window glass.
My Z4 has this but it isn’t a problem. If the window doesn’t lower it just gives a bit of resistance when you open the door and the window doesn’t tuck back under the seal when you close it.
I owned an third generation F-body with the frameless windows that didn’t drop and they absolutely were not quiet. Once you got up to highway speeds the window would start pulling away from the weatherstrip and you’d get some wind noise coming from the front edge. Any speeds higher than posted limits and the gap would be easily visible which of course meant it was very audible. During my years with that Camaro I tried multiple solutions to force a better seal by jamming something between the weatherstrip and the body and they helped somewhat but none were a perfect solution and weren’t nearly as good of a seal as the ones that drop and lift the window behind a better seal.
Maybe newer GMs are better but my memory of it makes me very happy with the window dropping and lifting to get a nice seal.
My e46 convertible’s door work fine even if they don’t drop down. You can still open and close them and the seal tucks correctly.
i had 5 of the frameless Subarus over the years, starting with a 91 Loyale and ending with a 2007 outback. Never had any wind or water intrusion issues. Now my 17 WRX is rusting its window frames like crazy, like it wants to return to frameless 🙂
I really don’t understand why you would design a car with a solid roof with frameless windows because of issues like this. My firebird has frameless windows, shit every year F-body has frameless windows but these were design around convertible’s and T-tops. I have never heard of any issues with the windows cracking in emergencies because of loss of power sure you might get some leaky windows if you have T-tops though. Yet I have never once had to worry about rolling my window down some because of loss of battery power which has happened to me and my bird has power windows wish I had roll down as the motors on mine take for ever to roll down now. Really just seems cars are getting more and more complicated for reasons.
I really don’t understand why you would design a car with a solid roof with frameless windows because of issues like this. My firebird has frameless windows, shit every year F-body has frameless windows but these were design around convertible’s and T-tops. I have never heard of any issues with the windows cracking in emergencies because of loss of power sure you might get some leaky windows if you have T-tops though. Yet I have never once had to worry about rolling my window down some because of loss of battery power which has happened to me and my bird has power windows wish I had roll down as the motors on mine take for ever to roll down now. Really just seems cars are getting more and more complicated for reasons.
We had our OG Model Y for almost four years and experienced no issues, and people DID use the emergency release by accident a few times, including us after we first got it. It makes a noise as the glass goes past the trim, but it wasn’t ungodly, and didn’t sound like it was going to crack.
For historical reference, I direct your attention to the VW Type 3 Fastback rear window vent glass which physically BENDS the glass when you open the window. No hinge. It’s fixed at the front, and the latch pushes the glass out at the back. Glass can bend and automakers have counted on that for years. Fun!
We just took delivery of our new Y yesterday after thoroughly enjoying the experience of the first one for 75k miles and four years. I couldn’t turn down the insanely low interest rate, EV tax credit, and great trade-in value. The new one updates several areas on the old one that were a nuisance, but not really problematic. Fingers crossed for another four years of trouble-free use.
Nice! Please keep us updated on how it goes. I agree, the Model Y is still a smoking hot deal.
I’m 4 years in on a 2020 MY, 61k miles, and it’s had some ups and downs. The most recently weird one was actually the rear windows stopped going back down when the door opened
They would go down, then immediately go back up, so that you had to manually use the window switch to lower it before closing the door otherwise I too would have snapped some glass. Now as it happens the fault was a puddle light failure, and as soon as that was replaced (for like literally 5min and 5 dollars aftermarket), all was good in the world. But I never would have guessed that was the real issue without someone on the forums mentioning it as a check.
Wow, that’s a weird one. Never had that, but we did have, since new, a “click” that would happen under the rear seat that seemed to coincide with whatever keeps the car from rolling when not under power. It would click when you stepped on the accelerator, and then again when you came to a stop. We assumed it was normal, but it was strange. The new one does not do this so maybe something was broken and we never knew. Beyond that, it was trouble free and only went in for some recall stuff years ago that were minor and quickly repaired. The new one is built in Texas vs. Fremont and I can say the overall fit/finish does appear to be better along with the paint quality Hopefully it as good or better as our old one, which we did love.
We had our OG Model Y for almost four years and experienced no issues, and people DID use the emergency release by accident a few times, including us after we first got it. It makes a noise as the glass goes past the trim, but it wasn’t ungodly, and didn’t sound like it was going to crack.
For historical reference, I direct your attention to the VW Type 3 Fastback rear window vent glass which physically BENDS the glass when you open the window. No hinge. It’s fixed at the front, and the latch pushes the glass out at the back. Glass can bend and automakers have counted on that for years. Fun!
We just took delivery of our new Y yesterday after thoroughly enjoying the experience of the first one for 75k miles and four years. I couldn’t turn down the insanely low interest rate, EV tax credit, and great trade-in value. The new one updates several areas on the old one that were a nuisance, but not really problematic. Fingers crossed for another four years of trouble-free use.
Nice! Please keep us updated on how it goes. I agree, the Model Y is still a smoking hot deal.
I’m 4 years in on a 2020 MY, 61k miles, and it’s had some ups and downs. The most recently weird one was actually the rear windows stopped going back down when the door opened
They would go down, then immediately go back up, so that you had to manually use the window switch to lower it before closing the door otherwise I too would have snapped some glass. Now as it happens the fault was a puddle light failure, and as soon as that was replaced (for like literally 5min and 5 dollars aftermarket), all was good in the world. But I never would have guessed that was the real issue without someone on the forums mentioning it as a check.
Wow, that’s a weird one. Never had that, but we did have, since new, a “click” that would happen under the rear seat that seemed to coincide with whatever keeps the car from rolling when not under power. It would click when you stepped on the accelerator, and then again when you came to a stop. We assumed it was normal, but it was strange. The new one does not do this so maybe something was broken and we never knew. Beyond that, it was trouble free and only went in for some recall stuff years ago that were minor and quickly repaired. The new one is built in Texas vs. Fremont and I can say the overall fit/finish does appear to be better along with the paint quality Hopefully it as good or better as our old one, which we did love.
Get ready for more of this. The entire industry is falling all over itself to imitate this “zone controller” architecture.
Get ready for more of this. The entire industry is falling all over itself to imitate this “zone controller” architecture.
My 2022 Bronco has a fun combination of these problems. It sat at the dealership for 52 straight days with a known transmission problem, waiting on parts and a tech. Now the battery is degraded and won’t hold a charge, and I keep having to jump start it. Hilariously the infotainment screen loads super erratically too. The frameless rear window won’t seal properly because it won’t lower/raise automatically.
So anyway, not just a Tesla problem. Ford is making some real unrepairable garbage these days. Driving my 1976 F-150 instead. Manual crank windows work great.
My 2022 Bronco has a fun combination of these problems. It sat at the dealership for 52 straight days with a known transmission problem, waiting on parts and a tech. Now the battery is degraded and won’t hold a charge, and I keep having to jump start it. Hilariously the infotainment screen loads super erratically too. The frameless rear window won’t seal properly because it won’t lower/raise automatically.
So anyway, not just a Tesla problem. Ford is making some real unrepairable garbage these days. Driving my 1976 F-150 instead. Manual crank windows work great.
Tesla’s insistence on shit UI reminds me of GM’s insistence to use the worst interior materials. Everyone is shouting for years in the background like “Boy, this would be a pretty great car if ________ didn’t suck so hard.” And then that advice is soundly ignored for decades.
Tesla’s insistence on shit UI reminds me of GM’s insistence to use the worst interior materials. Everyone is shouting for years in the background like “Boy, this would be a pretty great car if ________ didn’t suck so hard.” And then that advice is soundly ignored for decades.
It’s just like other electric devices. If your phone gets laggy and breaks: replace and keep making payments forever. Repairability and reliability were not core design criteria here.
There’s a long tradition of allowing consumers to make idiot mistakes that are highly profitable for the manufacturers. Why buy a phone – on credit, no less – that costs more than about 100 quid? What’s the incremental benefit beyond that price level?
It’s just like other electric devices. If your phone gets laggy and breaks: replace and keep making payments forever. Repairability and reliability were not core design criteria here.
There’s a long tradition of allowing consumers to make idiot mistakes that are highly profitable for the manufacturers. Why buy a phone – on credit, no less – that costs more than about 100 quid? What’s the incremental benefit beyond that price level?
So,,, What happens to the Cybertruck steering during an electrical failure?
Inconceivable!
It’s still ugly?
So,,, What happens to the Cybertruck steering during an electrical failure?
Inconceivable!
It’s still ugly?
This is why I’m adding door handles to my Cybertruck as soon as I buy it in 26 years out of someone’s back yard for $1782 BezosBucks™. I have a set of 1996 Ford F-150 handles already earmarked for it.
(Though at the rate Cybertrucks are falling apart inside and out, I may get to adopt a yard potato sooner than I thought)
Can’t you build a Cybertruck one piece at a time, Johnny Cash style, out of pieces you find on the side of the highway that have fallen off ones being driven?
Body parts are already available at an appliance store near you.
This is why I’m adding door handles to my Cybertruck as soon as I buy it in 26 years out of someone’s back yard for $1782 BezosBucks™. I have a set of 1996 Ford F-150 handles already earmarked for it.
(Though at the rate Cybertrucks are falling apart inside and out, I may get to adopt a yard potato sooner than I thought)
Can’t you build a Cybertruck one piece at a time, Johnny Cash style, out of pieces you find on the side of the highway that have fallen off ones being driven?
Body parts are already available at an appliance store near you.