Welcome back to another fun-filled week of crappy old cars! Today, we’re playing another silly name game and looking at a Mini and a Maxima. Why? Well, why not? Before we get there though, let’s see how last week wrapped up:
That’s what I expected, but I didn’t expect the little LeCar to be quite so polarizing. You all seem to really love them, or really hate them. Me, I could have fun with either of those choices, but the Monterey is more to my current tastes, I think.
Today we have some disparity in size as well, as you can see by the two cars’ names. One of them isn’t nearly as small as it used to be, however, and the other never was as big as its name might suggest. You’ll be happy to know that both of today’s entries run and drive, but of course as usual there are some caveats. Let’s take a look.
2003 Mini Cooper S – $2,500
Engine/drivetrain: Supercharged 1.6 liter inline 4, 6 speed manual, FWD
Location: Commerce Township, MI
Odometer reading: 101,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep
I’ve been a fan of the “new” Mini Cooper ever since it appeared in the US in 2002. I test drove one back then and loved it, but couldn’t quite swing the price. Since then I’ve been watching the used market for them, watching the values drop, and now that they’re in cash-purchase range, I’m interested again. But if this is what $2,500 will get you, maybe I should reconsider. Or wait a little longer.
This is the Cooper S model, which by all accounts is the one to get if you’re going to get one. It has a supercharged engine and a Getrag six-speed manual, which is much stronger than the Rover-sourced five-speed of the standard Mini Cooper. There was an automatic available too, but the less said about a Mini with an automatic the better.
So on paper at least, this should be a good deal. It has low miles, and the seller says it runs well. And yet, it looks like every warning light on the dash is lit, it’s somehow missing a taillight, and the whole car has a “ridden hard and put away wet” vibe to it. Not to mention, it’s a Midwest car, so there’s the question of rust; as much as it pains me to realize it, this is now a nearly twenty-year-old car. That’s a lot of winters.
I have also heard that from a maintenance standpoint these cars are not for the faint of heart. But they are an absolute hoot to drive, and that much should still be true even of an old threadbare one like this. Is the fun to be had worth the potential heartbreak? That’s the eternal question with cars like this, isn’t it?
2002 Nissan Maxima GLE – $2,300
Engine/drivetrain: 3.5 liter V6, 4 speed automatic, FWD
Location: Bellingham, WA
Odometer reading: 152,000 miles
Runs/drives? Sure does
Nissan’s flagship Maxima is going away next year, another casualty in the automobile market’s War on Sedans. It’s a shame, because there was a time when the Maxima was a well-respected sports sedan, the darling of automotive magazines and drivers alike. Nissan’s sedans in general don’t have the most respectable reuptation these days, but old Maximas like this are really nice cars.
This 2002 model is powered by Nissan’s ubiquitous VQ35DE engine, which has been stuffed under the hoods of everything from the Altima to the Pathfinder, as well as several Infiniti models. It’s a solid engine with a good reputation. In this comfort-oriented GLE model, it’s backed by a four-speed automatic. Sportier versions of the Maxima could be had with five- or six-speed manuals and some other performance goodies that this one doesn’t have. But this one probably wins in the comfort and ride department.
The seller says it has had some recent work done and runs well, and it doesn’t have many miles on it. These are reliable cars in general, so there shouldn’t be any issues there. There is some weirdness with the paint on one rear quarter panel and door; I can’t tell if the clearcoat is bad, or if it’s badly-painted repair work, or what, but it sticks out like a sore thumb on a black car.
The inside looks better, with nice leather seats in good condition. And being the GLE model, this car will have all the bells and whistles on it. At least, all the bells and whistles available twenty years ago, which means standard equipment on base-model cars these days.
So that’s our Monday: a fun but fragile hatchback and frumpy version of a sports sedan. Which one will it be?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
I have no specific data points, but it seems like every time I see flatbed at the side of the road it’s for a R53. So tempting to pick the Mini as a small, cheap supercharged hatch with a manual transmission…. but if I was looking for reliable transportation that Maxima will probably outlive the cockroaches with just a little bit of maintenance.
I had a 2003 Cooper S for 15 years and 146,000 miles. Take the Nissan.
This is the equivalent of a person eating over half an entree and then wanting to send it back. Obviously it wasn’t THAT bad if you lived with it for 15 years. Was it just really nickel and diming you at the end? Just curious, as I really like Coopers of this vintage..
It was great when new but it was always a little finicky. But mostly I know how much it would cost to put it right which is why I got rid of mine even though it was no longer my daily driver. Great car to be the first owner with warranty on, after that, no.
Oh Anna, don’t you know it could never work between us? I’m happily married, and you’re either a robot or some guy in a cubicle in Indonesia. Either way, we just come from different worlds.
But she wants to help us…. or him. I bet him.
Buy they Mini, do not title it in your name, scratch out the VIN and see how many stop signs it can run over. then leave it where it dies.
Speaking as a Mini Cooper S owner (and lover): DO NOT TOUCH THAT MINI.
That is all.
If the Maxi was a manual, I would be stoked to own it. These cars are pretty bulletproof.
That’s a big if, though. Everyone that I know who owned a Maxima with an automatic ended up stranded at a traffic light with a transmission that, with absolutely no prior warning, simply sat down and refused to proceed. I’ll take the Mini just because I’ve wanted one since they were new, and it doesn’t scare me. The Nissan just looks like it’ll bore me until it strands me.
Mini coopers are some of the worst cars out there, so my choice is the Maxima, but check the radiator support first 😛
My Mini story:
My ex-wife’s mother had a 2007 Mini just like this one, but it was friggin’ immaculate, inside and out. She got in a fender-bender to the drivers-side front. No problem. It was in such good shape Geico didn’t have a problem repairing. But after the accident, the car wouldn’t start. I had it towed to my trusted BMW mechanic. They said that the ECU got damaged, and it needed a new one, but it had to come from BMW and was like $2800. Okay. I called Geico and told them that. The said they’d look into it, then called back later and said nah. They called my mechanic a crook. They found a junkyard ECU for like $200, and said they will come pick it up and have the bodyshop fix the damage as well as replace the ECU. Okaaaaaay.
So, of course they fix the body damage first. Looked perfect. Then they try to tackle the ECU. But lo and behold, their $200 ECU won’t work and they need to have one coded from BMW and it’ll be $2800. That was the threshold for totaling the car. So in a junkyard somewhere is a perfect 2008 Mini with a bad ECU.
When that happens, offer to buy the wreck. Then go to the junkyard where you got the donor ECU, and pull the ignition tumbler and BC1 (body control unit) from it. You’ll need to rekey to the new tumbler, but that should get it going again. VW does similar stuff with it’s ECUs and the instrument cluster, which has similar circuitry. If you don’t get the right combo, it’s immobilized.
I’ll be honest. More than once, I’ve been sorely tempted to just yank the whole electrics out of a car and rewire it how I want it, with an entirely different engine management system.
Maxima. That Mini looks like it could roll over and die tomorrow, while the Maxima should have another 100,000 miles in it. I haven’t seen such a clean 5th gen on the road in years.
I don’t know much about Minis. But I know all too well that this generation of them, no matter how good the gearbox, are downright notorious for repeated, irreparable, catastrophic engine failures and a complete inability to pass emissions. Burned exhaust valves. Destroyed catalytic converters. Burning a quart of oil between fill-ups. Sludging of the cooling system to the point where no amount of water pump and radiator replacement will help with plugged solid coolant channels. Electrical problems without end. Airbag module failures. Rare is one that makes it near to 100k miles.
Which problems does this one have? I’d bet on “yes.”
You aren’t gambling with the Mini. You’re just setting your money on fire.
The Nissan Maxima is the penultimate shitbox here though; the holy grail of shitboxes.
Practically antique but mechanically sound. Terrible paint. Mediocre and not particularly desirable when new.
It’s fucking PERFECT. It will absolutely, reliably get you from point A to point B. Nobody will give it a second thought. You won’t give the least shit if it gets scratched up or rusty. And this Maxima is from the time when Nissan gave a shit. It’s car that easily has another 100,000 miles in it. It’s from a time when a Maxima wasn’t a car you aspired to (except maybe the SE-R,) but you always said “ya know, this was a good decision in hindsight.” It’s not the highest end, but it’s far from econobox. And it’s priced perfectly to boot.
Important note for when cars like the Maxima reach shitbox status: unlike Toyota, Nissan has the decency to use timing chains instead of belts. So doing spark plugs on the rear bank of cylinders in your cramped your transverse V6 engine bay will probably suck, but you at least don’t need to spend your life dreading those 60k service intervals.
Actually, the plugs on these are downright easy compared to the GM 3800’s. Because the Nissan engine is DOHC chain timed. With classic late-90’s DOHC design – the plugs are in the CENTER of the cylinder head. Making them extremely accessible by comparison. A couple of brackets, but no need to pull the entire intake like a Mitsubishi.
Kind of a moot point in the age of small-displacement turbo 4s, but I’d love to see transverse V6s leaned forward to the rear bank of cylinders is accessible for all kinds of work.
Were those the OEM taillights on that gen Maxima?
If so, no wonder I mentally blocked them out.
Yessir. I always liked them.
They look so…surprised.
Finally one for me.
I’ll take the Mini. For 2500 it’s a great car for autocross and backroads and since everyone in the US has a massive garage or a plot of land, it won’t take up any space anyway 😉
Small arts are relatively cheap, but there some zingers like the supercharger, clutch or steering rack. If those are bust and you’re not a mechanic, walk away.
FYI, the 2003 gearbox is still not great reliability wise, better than the 5 speed for sure, but the post 2005 models are the much better ones!
As always, Manual > Auto. Gimme the Mini.
I’ve done a clutch job in one, twice. Ain’t scared about the contortions and prep needed to wrench.
I have a soft spot for the modern Minis as well. They’re stylish, and perhaps above all else-cheerful little cars. In an era where everything is BIG AND ANGRY I really appreciate small cars that don’t take themselves too seriously. I feel like rolling up in a Mini says the exact opposite of rolling up in a blacked out Challenger or something.
But alas…they’re BMWs underneath, and come with all that that entails. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong-but I believe the Minis are basically just BMW hand me downs from a technical standpoint…and if buying aging BMW tech that was old when it was new doesn’t send you packing you’re much more courageous than I am.
I’m a huge fan of German cars, but unless I get an opportunity at something truly special (fat chance in this market and at my income level) I’m not going to buy an old, high or high-ish mileage one. There’s too much of a chance of four (even five) figure surprise repairs, and I’d personally rather put that money elsewhere/am not experienced enough to take on wrenching on one myself.
So it’s the Maxima for me….and I honestly think Japanese pseudo-luxury sedans are slept on. You’re not going to get any sort of mind blowing performance with them, but their specs and interiors punch way above their weight. I like Avalons, Maximas, etc. as a result. They offer a lot of car for what you’re paying and much better reliability than a lot of their competitors.
There’s nothing wrong with a Japanese barge if you’re ballin on a budget, and you can’t beat having a nice car that no one knows is nice if you like flying under the radar.
I love the early “new” Minis, and have always wanted to roll the dice on one. If it were another Mini without so many red flags, I’d go with it all day long. I hate to do it, but I gotta go with the auto-equipped option today. Without a lot of work, it could be a respectable daily, and the interior (once cleaned up) looks like a very nice place to be. I cannot believe how good those leather seats look! Maximus it is!
If I’m going to take a chance on a questionable BMW, it’s going to have more than 4 cylinders and the rear wheels will be driven. Reluctant vote for the Nissan.
Never Nissan.
Currently own a 2005 Cooper S convertible with 117K on it. Can confirm these cars are tons of fun. We haven’t had many problems with it (knock on wood), but it’s not a daily driver and gets stored for the snowy months. That said, I’m still nervous about it. We talk about selling and getting something else as a fun car, but then we drive it again. I voted Maxima because the listed Mini looks too rough for my tastes.
Have direct experience with both of these; got a Mini S for the wife a few years back – Summary:
> Not easy finding a shop willing to work on it
> fixed the ‘multiple error lights’ issue myself by replacing the ‘alarm clock’ instrument cluster above steering column (which talks CAN bus .. which was why so many error codes were there simultaneously)
My son had, for his first car, a 2000 Maxima; summary:
> great reliable car
> UNLESS you take it off road and put a hole in the transmission pan.. and then continue to drive it.
Overall, I would put my money with the Nissan
Why do a lot of vehicles from this era have that same pissy yellow-ish tint on their headlights? My Quaalude of a Prelude had ’em, these have ’em as well. Mercedes and BMW’s from this time had ’em too.
UV light breaks them down. Easy fix with the lens polishing kits out there. Did it on my Beamer, but it wasn’t yellowed, just not clear anymore. Half day job, and almost fun.
This bugs me a lot personally because headlight oxidation is an easy fix you can do on your own or have someone else do if you’d rather. Yellowed headlights just ruin the appearance of a car for me, and they’re everywhere because people are too lazy to do anything about it.
I think 2003 was before Mini got in bed with BMW, but I still don’t trust it to not put me on the street instead of taking me down it.
I’ve driven a 5th gen Maxima before and it quietly impressed me as a competent and pleasant vehicle to daily.
BMW bought Mini in 1996…
See, now I did a quick Wiki search to see if there was any BMW DNA in this thing and look where that got me. That just reinforces my statement. Run from the Mini.
The R53 uses the Tritec/ Pentagon engine which was a result of a Joint venture between Rover and Chrysler. BMW/ Rover / Chrysler DNA is a perfect combination.
trifecta!
Yikes.
BMW in name only.. the local BMW shop will not do any but the most basic work on my wife’s Mini.
(would recharge the A/C but would not diagnose a transmission fault code)
What’s the chance that all of the warning lights are on because the key is in the “accessory” position and they light up so you know they work before turning the car on?
Edit… except they apparently aren’t _all_ on… so there goes that theory (unless the other lights have blown…)
I was thinking the same thing, but based on the tach, the engine appears to be idling.
There’s no good answer for this one. The Maxima is probably the rational choice if you are looking for cheap transportation. The Mini would be much more fun to drive, assuming it isn’t swiss cheese under there (I’m not making that assumption), and will probably be a money pit to keep running. I just can’t get excited about 20 year old Nissan with a slush box, so despite being sketchy AF, I am going with the Mini.
Well, the Mini’s got 100K Michigan miles on it, so unless the owner loved it enough to do the winter salt treatments, it’s gonna be weak. I guess the question is, how reliable do you need this to be? As you say, if you actually NEED for it to drive everywhere, buy the reliable one. If you NEED a project car to do the zoom zoom, you can’t really have more fun than a little car with a supercharger and a six speed. So…
As much as the Mini calls to me, it screams wallet draining.
The Maxima, while boring, is a better point A to B option.
“There is some weirdness with the paint on one rear quarter panel and door; I can’t tell if the clearcoat is bad, or if it’s badly-painted repair work, or what, but it sticks out like a sore thumb on a black car.”
The paint is holding up better than most Maximas from this era. A lot of them developed big whitish patches, especially on the roof and hood. Probably just a variation on that.
Ooo, the Maxima with a manual would win even harder. VQ + 6-speed = fast af.
The VQ sounds great stock too. I get that people hate them because of the proliferation of awful sounding aftermarket exhausts for them, but blame the boy racer owners for that, not the powertrain. An unmolested VQ sounds amazing for what it is.
The problem with the VQ’s sound comes late in life, when the valvetrain starts to sound like a GM Iron Duke.
I found on my ’02 Maxima that it was really sensitive to the oil filter you used. When I owned the car (2005-2008-ish) Fram and the other replacement filter companies only carried one part number for the VQ, and it was the thimble-sized oil filter that was used on the 4×4 trucks. The Maxima came with a longer filter from the factory. I could tell when the car needed an oil change because the valvetrain would clatter on startup in the morning. With the short filters it would clatter all the time. I figured out the only filter that was any good was the OE part I had to get at the Nissan dealership. Eventually Fram et. al. got it figured out and started selling the longer filter also, but it took a few years.
Still, you’re not wrong about high mile VQ’s, at least the early ones. I think the cam phasers wore out on mine – it started to knock on 87 octane when it never had when it was newer, was down on power and responsiveness, and just generally felt ‘worn out’ by the time I got rid of it.