New Sales Data Proves America Wants Electrified Cars

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While 2024 is definitely the “Year of the Hybrid,” there’s also some good news in the sales reports for regular EVs, which did a little better in Q2 than was maybe expected. In particular, GM was able to have a strong quarter without a lot of Bolt sales. The shortcut that Toyota uses is to refer to anything with an electric motor as “electrified,” and it might be helpful to utilize that same term here when thinking about car sales right now.

Can we talk about the Maverick? There’s evidence to suggest that we can, at length. So I’m going to do more of that, because it’s helpful and fun. While we’re looking at sales reports, the Mirai outsold the Prius in June. Whaaaaat?

And, finally, Stellantis. Ugh. It’s bad, y’all. It’s so bad the best brands (year-over-year) are the Italian ones.

GM Sells More EVs In A Quarter Than Ever, Ford Sells A Bunch Of Hybrids, Stellantis Sells A Bunch Of PHEVs

2023 Cadillac Lyriq 301

To justify the headline, people are buying things with electric motors. Whether that’s PHEVs, regular hybrids (I just bought one, more to come on that), or electric cars, automakers are generally doing better, or, at least, not doing as poorly as people thought.

With a few exceptions (Polestar, Lucid), almost everyone non-Tesla who sells anything electrified did better on a quarterly basis. Tesla was down quarter-over-quarter as expected, but they did slightly better than analysts assumed and Tesla is its own weird planet.

I’d look at more monthly data, but the CDK Global ransomware disaster has made it difficult to draw any big conclusions about June, and, besides, quarterly data is better and fuller.

Let’s start with General Motors, which is finally starting to come out on the other side of its Ultium issues and is producing cars at a faster clip. Even with only a handful of leftover Bolts to sell, GM says its brands delivered a record 21,930 electric cars in Q2 of 2024, up 34% from Q1 and up 40% year-over-year.

What are those cars? About 7,200 Lyriqs, 6,600 Blazer EVs, 2,900 Hummer EVs, 2,200 Silverado EVs, 1,000 Equinox EVs, and 490 Brightdrops. That Equinox EV number reflects that the crossover just went on sale. I suspect that number will go up a lot next quarter as the company ramps up deliveries. Overall, GM was only up 0.6% year-over-year for all vehicles, buoyed by some trucks and a lot of Buicks, so the growth is a good sign.

Ford’s EVs were also up 61.4% year-over-year compared to a 55.6% increase in hybrid sales and a 5.0% drop in internal combustion-powered vehicles.

And Stellantis? They had a terrible quarter, which I’ll get into later in this post, but at least PHEV sales were good with the company now holding four-out-of-five biggest PHEV spots on the market, with only the RAV4 PHEV sneaking in there. Toyota had some weirdness this quarter and I. want to talk about that as well.

Does this mean there’s going to be a straight line upwards for EVs and hybrids? It’s probably going to be rocky, and one good quarter a streak does not make, but it’s likely that increased consumer preferences and lower costs, combined with government requirements, will push more and more consumers into hybrids, PHEVs, and BEVs every year.

The Ford Maverick Will Solve All Our Problems

Maverick Hybrid Conquest

Here’s a graphic showing how many people buying Maverick Hybrids are coming from non-Ford buyers and what they’re trading in, which is fun data. With 37 MPG combined, most non-EVs and hybrids have worse fuel economy, so the majority of people trading in a vehicle are going to see an improvement in efficiency.

The range here is pretty broad and features slightly fewer mid-size trucks than I’d guess and way more midsize cars and large SUVs than I’d have assumed. We don’t have a breakdown from Ford about where its customers are coming from, but I’d guess Escapes and Rangers might be in the mix.

Ford is mostly past its supply chain and production issues with the Ford Maverick so the 38,052 trucks it sold in Q2 2024 is a big number, representing an 81% increase year-over-year for Q2, which is consistent with Q1. Through the first half of the year, about 40,420 Maverick Hybrids have been sold, which is more than half of the 77,113 Mavericks sold in total.

The F-150 Hybrid isn’t doing quite that well, with 33,674 of them sold, but numbers are up 38% and there’s a good reason to think that the F-150 Hybrid will eventually start outselling the Maverick Hybrid. As mentioned, the Mach-E, E-Transit, and F-150 Lightning are also seeing more sales, but in total the Hybrid-to-EV ratio is still 2-to-1 for Ford.

Toyota Mirai Outsells Prius In June!

For some reason, 20 people bought the much-maligned (see above), hydrogen-powered Toyota Mirai. Presumably, all these consumers live in California and, I hope, took advantage of some sort of sweet lease deal that made the car almost free.

Those 20 people represent a bigger number than the 13 people who ended up with the excellent Toyota Prius. See the numbers below:

Toyota Ev Sales Chart

What’s going on here?

From a Toyota spokesperson:

We issued a global recall for Prius and Prius Prime in April (Release). There was a stop sale, and we identified a remedy and production restarted last month in Japan, so we expect units to start arriving in the U.S. later this month and into August.  Prius customers are loyal and we anticipate sales to rebound later this summer and into the fall.

This is a weird fluke, and I’m guessing the Mirai will never outsell the Prius again.

Stellantis Is, Woof, It’s Bad

Jeep Grand Wagoneer Discount Ts2

You can look at the Stellantis sales numbers if you want, and maybe you can find some sort of good news here I’m missing. Ram is down 26%, Chrysler is down 19%, Jeep is down 19%, and Dodge is down 17%. Obviously, the new and very good 2025 Dodge Ram 1500 is coming. That’ll help.

Stellantis is in a transition period as it waits for new product and tries to off-load the aging cars it’s currently sitting on, so this maybe won’t be permanent. But let’s look at all the cars/brands that saw increases this last quarter, because there are so few of them we can do them individually (Stellantis lists 32 models for sale in the United States and only five saw increases in the quarter).

Right up top, the new electric Fiat 500 looks good, even if it’s a little pricey. Fiat sold all of 1 Fiat 500 last year, so the 163 new Fiat 500s sold represent a 16,200% increase. Great work.  Also, 153 Fiat 500X crossovers were moved, up from 143 in Q2 of 2023. Who bought them? No idea.

The Jeep Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer saw sales increases of 107% and 24%, respectively. Heavy discounting and Jeep offering dealers $10,000 for every Grand Wagoneer they move can’t hurt.

What else do we have? The Alfa Tonale! 887 people bought them, up from 117 in Q2 of 2023 when they’d just gone on sale, so I’m not even sure that counts.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

Am I bad to the bone? Hell yeah, but instead of that, let’s listen to “Move it on Over” by George Thorogood and the Destroyers this morning. This is a suggestion from our pal Thad, who thought it was high time I enjoyed this track. I also have a vague memory of maybe being taken to a George Thorogood concert when I was much younger and my dad worked concert security. My dad always reads this, so I’m sure he’ll tell me if I’m wrong.

The Big Question

Any guesses as to what I ended up buying?

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140 thoughts on “New Sales Data Proves America Wants Electrified Cars”

  1. Stellantis;
    Aged products with hideous price increases since 2021. No wonder there is a deepening slide in sales and a strong increase in discounts. Theres not a wrangler to be found on a dealer for less than 40k (damn near). Who woulda imagined……

  4. Well, Dodge and Chrysler each had literally 50% of their products cut at the end of 2023 with no replacements, so it isn’t surprising those brands are down, it’s like being surprised that a Soviet grocery store hardly took in any cash for the day.

    Dodge has the ancient Durango and the troubled, overpriced Hornet, Chrysler has the aging Pacifica, and that’s it, that’s all.

    Dodge should be doing better, given how hot SUVs and crossovers are, in general, but when you only have two of them, one of which came out during Obama’s first term and one of which had been a dumpster fire since launch, obviously you’re not going to be performing well.

  5. I’m hoping you’ll say you bought a Maverick, but I’m betting you went with the Honda. Whatever the decision, wish you the best of luck with your purchase.

  6. So, the average Maverick buyer is coming from something smaller because the Maverick is now the only entry-level-ish vehicle from Ford. Other trucks are the smallest portion of their takeover market because it doesn’t actually appeal that much to existing truck buyers.

    I can’t say any of this surprises me, but it is confirming my prejudices about the Maverick. 😉

  8. I went yesterday to my local CDJR dealer to service our Pacifica Hybrid (Oil change after 5K miles on gas and 3K on electric) and the dealer floor looked so sad, nobody was there, their fleet was a mix of expensive Chargers and Wagoneers along some Ram Trucks and Jeeps. Their used lot had better offerings. They are going to be the next Mitsubishi if they don’t act fast renewing a lot of cars in the majority of their segments.

    1. Even budget-constrained Mitsubishi kept dutifully refreshing its old models, unlike FCA in their doldrum years. Most FCA cars got a massive (and very well-executed) refresh in 2011, and then…that was it for any car not named RAM or Jeep. Over the next 10 years, the Charger/Challenger got only trim packages and an infotainment update (plus the low-volume Hellcat engine), the Chrysler 300 got just the infotainment and lost some trims, and the Journey got…absolutely nothing! Just very minor exterior cosmetic changes from 2011 until its demise in 2020. For a vehicle in the red-hot midsize crossover segment, that is insane. (And the Journey had good bones! I owned one!)

      By contrast, during that same period the aging Mitsubishi Outlander and Outlander Sport went through three major refreshes that added new options.

      2. It’s baffling that the Journey was left to rot and unceremoniously cancelled. Say what you will about it, a low priced, roomy crossover was an entirely satisfactory choice for a lot of families – admittedly, especially those with shaky credit. To just get rid of it with no replacement was bizarre.

        1. They had the China-market Jeep Commander right there! As a modern, midsized 3-row crossover on the CUSW platform, it could have been built at Belvidere or Sterling Heights at the time. Other than the cost of homologation, it was a turnkey solution for them. I still can’t believe they decided to just blow-off this massive automotive segment.

  9. Awwww, thanks Matt. I hope you enjoyed it. It reminds me of and makes me nostalgic for a time when the Right and Left could better rock together. Until such returns, I Drink Alone.

  10. I’m guessing CR-V.

    My dad was one of those Q2 Maverick Hybrid buyers. He took delivery of his XLT at the beginning of May, replacing his 2013 Volvo XC70. There’s been a bit of culture shock at the Mav’s relatively Spartan equipment level (I gave him a heated seat cover for his birthday, since he kept it on year-round in his Volvo for his back), but he has reported average fuel consumption of over 40 MPG, which is probably about double what the Volvo saw on a good day.

    I noticed an Equinox EV on the road the other day, before which I hadn’t realized they were out. Looked vaguely futuristic but cleaner and more tasteful than a Hyundai/Kia EV from the front, but bland and a bit dated from the rear. Weird stylistic mismatch.

    1. I have a CR-V hybrid for a rental right now. It’s a very slick suv who’s only crime is being too damn quiet (when I start it up, I have to gamble whether I’ve started it or it’s just in “electronics only” mode).
      I get why people like it.

  11. I feel like you should have gotten the Corolla Cross Hybrid, but the last one you seemed to gunning for was the CR-V hybrid. Corolla Cross – final answer.

  12. FWIW my Mav Hy, while still quite new at 2900 miles, has been impressive. A 275gal water tank fits fully in the bed for trips to the water tower to keep the home taps flowing. There is a bit of “Carolina Squat” during the short trip home.

    1. If you fill that full, that’s 2,200 lbs of water. The truck has a 1,500 lb payload rating. This includes passengers. Poor little truck. I hope it’s not a long drive to the get your water.

      1. Less than 2 miles at low speed. The task didn’t harm the Transit Connect used previously.

        On the bed length thing, does no one but me have a utility trailer?

        2. I Just built one I tow with the GR86 (which is why I have it—can’t put kayaks on the roof—but it’s also great to have to get rid of yard debris, junk, pick up full sheets of plywood, whatever).

            1. Aluminum roof, I’m reluctant to trust the Seasucker even for bikes (hitch rack), though I know they are well reviewed, but the main thing is that two of my kayaks are 17′ long and that’s a lot of length sticking out from where the close-set roof mounts would be. One boat is only about 40 lbs, but the other is probably 70 or more and the converted e-kayak is probably closer to 60 without the battery and motor (I remove them for transport).

              1. That’s fair.
                I’ve seen a few of them stuck down on glass sunroofs, I would feel less comfortable there.

                I wish manufacturers supported towing options with small vehicles better, such as your scenario (or towing a motorcycle/ATV)

                1. I’ve seen people use them with lightweight bikes and have no problems. The bikes I usually ride aren’t so light and removing the wheel on some of them isn’t such an easy task or one to do frequently (especially the antique bike, which requires spreading the fork apart to get the axle out, so that’s something I try to keep to a minimum).

                  A few decades ago, tiny crap cans with worse brakes, less weight, and half the power (and still unibody) were rated for 1500-2000 pounds towing, but they stopped rating them probably to drive people into their more profitable CUV version on the same platform. I figure if a ’93 Corolla could tow a utility trailer, then this can and the hitch is bolted to the chassis behind the bumper beam using the same holes rated for 3500 lbs and has a 2″ receiver, which is overkill. It does make finding parking a little more of a challenge, but I only just got it registered, so I haven’t had much of a chance to see just how much so yet. I was slightly concerned about the clutch, but the car doesn’t even seem to notice.

                  1. Never have I been concerned with my clutch on my car’s towing since most weight I intend to tow would be similar to a full carload of people.

                    Perhaps pretending I’m driving that ’93 Corolla, with it’s leisurely pace of acceleration and small brakes, is a decent description.

                    1. It was the drag more than the weight. I didn’t think it would actually be a problem as much as I overthink stuff and prepare for the worst.

          2. Way back on the old Jalopnic someone got a picture of my smart pulling my trailer holding a Sears clamshell and a pushmower. The comments had no mercy… had it been a lifted 4wd doublecab dually diesel with two bicycles on a hitch mount for the load, nothing to see here.

            1. Yeah, I get some looks likely from a lot of people who probably think I need a F-350 to pull 600 lbs loaded, but I don’t regard the opinions of people like that. I don’t use it a lot or drive far, but the car doesn’t even seem to notice it, though I take a mileage hit—down to around 26 mpg.

    1. I am dreaming of that combo as well. When the SO’s Honda Fit bites it, she can have the Maverick for her daily and I’ll get a Miata PRHT.

  15. All this stop about hybrids was a distraction! You really went for a noble, reliable steed, the best mid 90’s Japanese Bubble Economy had to offer. So, tell us all about your new-to-you 1994 Mitsubishi 3000gt SL!

  16. For those curious of what the actual Wagoneer numbers were like I was, the Wagoneer sold 16,734 vs 8,075 last year, and the Grand Wagoneer sold 4,005 compared to 3,224.

  18. If Ford made enough of the specific Mavericks that people want to buy (Mostly XL Hybrids) and made sure their dealerships didn’t either price gouge and or ransom peoples’ personal orders then yes I bet it would solve a ton of Ford’s problems.

    1. And offered the hybrid with AWD. I might not like AWD personally, but I know a good number of people who were interested in the hybrid until they found out it was FWD only.

      1. I agree, however that variant is not in production yet. The XL hybrid is, yet even though they make up the majority of orders Ford won’t make enough of them to meet existing demand.

  19. The Maverick is a cool little package.

    I do wish it looked a little less frumpy, the refresh does help with this a bit though.

    The only real issue though is the fact Ford is making way too many non-hybrid versions that just sit on dealer lots because the hybrid is drastically better and tbh should be the only version (ok it should offer hybrid and PHEV in a perfect world).

    1. Based on the Forums, it seems like the hybrids are having reliability issues and the EB ones seem to be fine. Mix that with the fact that the EB version can easily do 12’s in the 1/4 with a few bolt ons, and you’ve got an entertaining mini truck.

      1. Without looking for a fight, what use case requires 6 feet that will not work with 4.5? It seems that, if 6 is required, then maybe a fuller size or mid-size would be a better option?

        1. I agree, a 4.5 box is plenty fine what what most people use their pavement princesses for.

          The Maverick is a great car with some truck utility for the weekend warrior who needs to make the occasional home improvement store run.

          If you need an actual bed, get an actual truck.

        2. Bed length fetishists, imo. They’re looking for a reason to disqualify the small, efficient truck they’ve been asking for.

          As far as I’m concerned, unless a bed has 48″ or more width between the wheel wells, you only need 4 to 5 feet of length. It’s not like you’re going to be carrying sheet goods flat.

          1. I think the Maverick and most mid-size trucks can haul at least a small amount of plywood using some blocks. I do it with my 5′ bed in a midsize truck regularly, just takes a couple straps, which would be necessary for any bed less than 8′

              1. Yeah, I found some pics of them doing it. I’m sure 8′ lumber works fine too with the tailgate down, which should cover most diy home projects.

            2. Exactly. If you have to put in blocks or lean the materials against the tailgate anyway, that 6’+ bed isn’t all that much more useful than the 4.5′ bed. The bed size in the Maverick and most mid-size trucks is more than sufficient for carrying modest amounts of home improvement materials.

            3. The Mav can hold plywood between the wheel wells and the tailgate can be adjusted to the same level giving you about 6 feet of flat area 48″ wide.

              1. You can fit 4 bikes partly in the back. You may as well be using a bike rack on a sedan(my other method of bike transport). But it provides no protection from the element or theft, or the ability to put stuff around the bikes and keep it protected.

                My current truck is perfect for my use case, but old. I just want more of the same!

                    1. The ranger and coloardo could be had that way up until the last year or two you might find a decent used one with some looking. My parents have a 2018(ish) ranger extended cab with a 6′ bed and it works well for them.

        3. I’m with you, I think it’s just the right size. The Maverick isn’t the truck for you if you’re frequently doing things like extensive remodeling/construction/significant landscape work. It is perfect for someone like me, who has a house on the smaller side, on about .2 acres, like millions of other middle class homeowners. I do it all with a Jetta Sportwagen, but a Maverick would be a good fit too. I load up on mulch and dirt for my gardens every spring, which the wagon carries no problem.

        4. I currently have an S-10 extended cab with a perfect 6 foot box. It means I can put 4 bikes in the back(with a topper) standing up, and not have to take wheels off. Roll in, roll out. Cap to keep them all enclosed and dirt free. 4.5 foot is awkward for so many things like skis not fitting, and needing to do, well, whatever the hell this is. Not truck stuff, anyway.
          https://i.imgur.com/aY3LZAA.jpeg

          I really just want a small truck that replaces the capabilities and size of my S-10, but there are so few options.

          I’m honestly curious what the use case is for a unibody truck with a 4.5 foot box vs an SUV. What things taller than the roofline are you carrying in that?

          1. I’d say the use case for many isn’t necessarily the height, but the separation of bed from interior.

            I know I would prefer to use a small truck bed to carry things like soil/manure/mulch vs having that in the back of an SUV just in the event of spills/leaky bags.

          2. My cargo is way less likely to complain about some less than ideal packing scenarios in a Maverick than my kids being crammed into the back of an extended cab S10.

          3. I was transporting lawn mowing equipment and contractor bags of grass in the back of the SUV. It worked, but it stank and was awkward. Now I throw stuff in the bed and I am set.

        5. All it needs is a trailer made from an old pickup truck bed. And once you have that trailer, all you need to tow it is your daily driver with a trailer hitch.

          1. I have no place to keep a trailer that would keep the HOA happy.

            Why not combine the two into something that is always ready to go? Like a full-sized pickup?

      2. Almost all the trucks I see around here are crew cab versions with minimal apparent bed. I feel like the average ‘truck’ buyer these days is just buying a family hauler.

        They’d probably be better off with a minivan or even a sedan, but that would be admitting they’re not super handy do-ers or outdoorsy campers.

        1. Maybe they just prefer driving a truck, which is not a crime.

          All the purported psychosocial motivations seem to come only from bitter blog commenters, not from truck drivers themselves, who mostly just drive what they like, as we all should.

          1. We, as Americans, buy cars for what they can do and not what we use them for. I am not a big truck guy, but if money were no object, I’d have a loaded F250 Superduty Lariat Tremor, as it can do pretty much anything I could conceivably need a vehicle to do. Realistically, the most I need is a Maverick EB with 4k tow. I’m glad that I could buy a Superduty if I had the funds because this is AMERICA! (Star Spangled banner plays in the background as an eagle screeches)

          2. I’m sure most of them just want to drive a truck without any actual use for a truck.

            That’s why beds are 27″ long and get traded in without a scratch in them.

            1. Most beds are 5-6 feet long and have a bedliner.

              But I’m sure you’re an expert on truck buyers’ motivations. You definitely seem to have a lot of experience.

                1. Is it somehow a mark of pride to have a damaged vehicle?

                  “Oh, let me ostentatiously show how hard I work by not caring if my expensive vehicle is scratched up”

                  Is it also more realistic cosplay if the seat is ripped? Do I need to kick some dents into the side? Fade the paint? Trying to understand what I need to do to make my truck sufficiently authentic to the only audience that matters, the comment section.

                  1. Don’t take my comments as any actual attack on trucks or their owners. I will gladly make fun of Subaru and Miata owners, counting myself among them.

                    Nobody is coming to take your pickup away.

                    Calm down.

                2. That is a point though thicker bed liner preventing scratches can help stop the truck from rusting earlier. My truck is beat to hell but still has bed liner also helps prevent chemicals from getting on the metal and preventing corrosion.

                3. no, mine is there to stop stuff from sliding around. I don’t need my load of tile shifting when I hit the brakes. I take it out when I’m hauling dirt or gravel. it’s easier to clean out that way.

        2. It is interesting that you mention the minivan. I picked up my full-size truck for a few reasons: my off-road mods made my other truck miserable for on pavement, my wife’s cars suck for family-of-four trips, and I knew I would do a little more towing and hauling than the off-road truck wanted.

          Little did I know that I would be towing 5k at least once a month for Scout camping trips. The vehicles that were used before by troop leadership? Chrysler minivan or ancient V8 4Runner. My use case definitely exceeds the ‘rent one when you need one’ crowd of truck nay-sayers. I am also the most requested member of the family through the lens of “Hey, were you going to the dump any time soon?”

        3. But then they would have a minivan that seats 8 but only use it for 4 people so we would have to poo poo them for not using all that capability.
          And the sedan owners would have a car with 300HP that can do 0-60 in 6 seconds but they won’t be doing hard pulls from every stop light, so we’d have to poo poo them for not using all that capability.

      4. Before I bought my Maverick, I thought this would be more of a problem than it is. I bought the “bed extender” that folds out over the lowered tailgate, but I haven’t needed it. It hauls mulch just fine. I can load up my bicycles and kayaks without a problem; I just use a hitch mounted extender to support the kayaks. They’d stick out of a 6 foot bed too. For sheet goods, you can angle the tailgate so the top is level with the top of the wheel wells. As others have said, if you need more than a 4.5 foot bed, you need a real truck anyway.

      5. Shit there have been times going to Menards to pick up lumber and I am so glad I have a normal length 8ft bed. I had to get some 14ft deck boards and didn’t need a trailer while all the guys with the short beds needed to bring a trailer to load their boards. So I couldn’t imagine the point of 4.5ft bed. Also I would not want to load a payload of gravel into the bed of a maverick. Then again I guess rural lifestyle if much different then the old suburban life style I used to have.

        1. The last time I built a deck I had all the materials delivered. There are definitely limitations to the utility of a 4.5 ft bed, but, for me, it does what it needs to do.

          1. Oh I completely understand for people if serves a purpose. Especially for people in more compact areas that don’t want to fight a fight full size truck.

        2. I found for major projects I’d rather use a trailer even if I could fit stuff in the bed. That way when I get home I can unhitch the trailer and have my truck back and leaving material on the trailer until I finish the project

          1. Ah true that makes sense. I have 2 other vehicles I can drive (well 3 since fiance if really needed) so if the truck is being used for a project I don’t mind it sitting. But yeah if it is your only/daily vehicle a trailer for materials makes sense.

        3. The point is most definitely not to pick up 14 foot deck boards. It sounds like you need a full size truck, which is fine. I don’t see why you think this makes the Maverick less capable for someone else with completely different needs?

          1. Sorry I should have worded it better as it doesn’t fit my needs. As I stated in another reply I completely understand the maverick for certain peoples needs. I could see it making a lot of sense of I worked in a major city with tight parking but still wanted a bed for work to be done around the house. But for me living in a rural area and working on a rural area also a full size fits my needs better.

        4. I brought home some 16′ deck boards on the roof of my Subaru. It was not ideal. I threaded in the front tow hook and tied the boards to it to keep them from swinging. A truck would have been much easier.

  22. The pedant in me would like to specify that Thorogood’s backing band is the Delaware Destroyers, lest they be confused with a group of warships.

  23. Since today is all EV stuff, I’ll ask you all if this is a good deal that FPL sent me an email for. I don’t own a garage, so I have no real reference here.

    Basically, FPL does a lease to own program on a level 2 charger that they install, do the 240v wiring if necessary, and offer off-peak charging from either $31 or $38 bux a month. If you move or cancel, there is a roughly $800 fee…

    https://www.fpl.com/electric-vehicles/evolution/home.html?cid=MC24EN697&bid=-1971353485

    1. I don’t know electricity costs there, but the limitations of off-peak and weekend charging could be fine or frustrating, depending on your schedule. If you’re looking to install and don’t mind their equipment, $4560 over the course of 10 years seems like it could be reasonable ($38 dollar option, to cover full install of circuit and such), since it covers the install, permitting, and that off-peak charging for those 10 years. I’m not entirely sure how they monitor how much of your off-peak use is for charging, which makes me suspect they’re gathering that data through their charger.

      Of course, installing a 240 outlet should be cheaper and offers more flexibility, and I don’t know much about their smart charger. It could be cheap junk or top-of-the-line.

      I probably wouldn’t do it, but I live where we have really cheap hydro power and I feel like a 240 outlet gives me more options, especially if L2 chargers end up improving in the near future. I also don’t care for them automatically programming my charging times (though it sounds like maybe you can reprogram it however you want).

      If I were in Florida, I’d probably be doing some math to see if it works out.

      1. Thanks.

        I was curious because they have been pushing a program to switch to solar power using their solar farms, so that you don’t need your own panels. I did the math on that one, and it’d be more expensive for me. So while it sounded neat, It wasn’t.

        Just looking at my bill, the rate breakdown is as follows for last month:

        Non-fuel- $0.0818 1st 1000 KWh
        $0.0918 over

        Fuel: $0.267 1st 1000
        $0.0367 over

        1. Do they offer an EV rate plan without charging equipment? When I lived in Georgia, I had a variable rate to encourage charging at night. Electricity was $0.01 per kwh between 11 pm and 7 am. During the winter and most other times, it was $0.08 per kwh. During times of peak electricity usage (summers between 1 pm and 7 pm) it was like $0.25 per kwh.

          I really liked that rate plan. I plugged in my car every night at 11 pm and basically drove for free. The only downside was the cost of electricity during times when AC was needed. I would turn the thermostat up to 80 degrees during the $0.25 kwh times to save money.

          I miss that rate plan. We have Duke Energy in my part of the state; there aren’t any EV incentives or programs here that I am aware of.

          1. It doesn’t appear that way, although they are kinda pussyfooting it in the FAQ section:

            What if I already have a charger?
            If you have the required 240-volt circuit, you may choose the equipment-only installation and we will provide the charging equipment, charger set up and hardwiring. If you do not have the required circuit, you would need to either have it installed or we may install it as part of a full installation.

          2. I’m unfortunate enough for my utility to be California’s PG&E (Pacific Gas and Electric) who famously blew up a neighborhood through neglecting to maintain a gas pipeline and set half the state on fire because they didn’t maintain rural power lines

            Their rates are so expensive that charging a tesla model 3 at home costs the same as putting $5/gal fuel in a 40mpg car

            The EV rate plan is $0.38/kwh at night and you can get kicked off the plan for consuming too much electricity (having multiple EVs, etc.) and that bumps the cost up to .46c/kwh at night, with daytime costs being between .10-.15c on top of that

              1. It’s the most expensive in the US and there’s no alternative provider. PG&E is investor-owned and a state-sanctioned monopoly. They have a huge service area that includes very sparse rural areas in addition to a bunch of large cities, so city-dwellers are subsidizing the costs of running electricity to tiny towns in the mountains with 1500 people in them

                It gets even more cursed, because they nerfed the residential solar generation credit by 80% last for systems commissioned after April ’23. People on the old rate have about 10 years before it switches to the new credit rates

                That means PG&E got a bunch of free solar generation infrastructure they didn’t have to pay for, and with people getting EVs, more revenue for them

        2. That’s really high rates, in my book. I would definitely look at switching to a plan that gives you non-peak discounts. This plan might be worth it, especially if you drive quite a bit and can still charge at non-peak rates. But not having a garage screws you out of it. Looks like the FAQs say they’ll only set this up if you have an attached garage.

          I’d definitely look into whether there is any other variable rate plan you could get.

          1. Which rates do you mean? The charger rates or what I currently pay?

            Last month I averaged 25kWh/day because it summer really kicked in. The month before was 19.

            1. Electric rates that have off-peak/peak splits. If you’re able to get a lower rate for nights and weekends, you may be able to save some money.

              1. Not an option with FPL, unfortunately. It would save me a bit on A/C I guess, seeing as the lows are usually between 77-82 for the next couple of months. But, otherwise, my sleep schedule is that of a 70 year old.

    2. It isn’t a terrible deal, but I am not sure an average driver would save money using this program. I’ll use myself as an example. I charge my Model 3 with a standard 120 volt outlet and I pay market rate for electricity (0.16 per kwh). I get around 5 miles per kwh, so $38 would buy around 1200 miles worth of electrons. I drive my Tesla ~800 miles per month, so paying market rate with my 120 V outlet is cheaper. One myth about EVs is that you have to purchase a charging station or otherwise spend money to charge your vehicle at home. For most drivers, a standard 120 V outlet is adequate.

      Also, while I find my 120V outlet adequate, I have a 240V outlet in my garage to run my dryer (like most Floridians with an attached garage). If I really wanted faster charging, I could buy a level 2 charger and plug it in in place of my dryer. I would still pay the same amount for electricity, but obviously charging would be faster. For those that don’t already have a 240 V outlet in their garage, they aren’t that expensive to add in many cases.

      $38 isn’t a terrible deal if you drive a lot and can still charge at home (maybe someone with a very long daily commute), but I don’t like the $800 cancellation fee or the caveat that only off-peak charging is free. I am also really confused as to the differences between the $31 “equipment only” installation and the $38 “full installation.”

      1. The full installation installs the 240 circuit and takes care of permitting. The $31 only installs on an existing circuit. It took me a couple reads to spot the difference.

        2. They really seem to be selling the permitting thing.

          Here, the permit would be like $50 (or less) and the electrician would get that just as part of the job.

          1. Admittedly, I know nothing about Florida permitting, but the install of a 240 circuit is worth something, at least. I also don’t know the rates for a Florida electrician, so it may not be worth as much as I expect.

            1. From what I can tell, they only cover installations within 10ft of the electrical panel which isn’t too costly. I would guess $38/month for 2 years works out to about the charger and installation cost plus the additional off-peak electricity used during that time.

              1. I had missed that caveat. This plan is probably not worth it, since you don’t actually own the equipment until year 10, according to the blurb.

      3. When the leasing company provides the products and installation and writes the contract, you can be sure it will be profitable to them and not a very good deal for you.

    3. Luckily I already have a 220 outlet in my garage, but I need to buy a level 2 charger. It seems like the chargers cost around $500.

      I wouldn’t want the utility controlling my charging times. I’d be a bit upset if I found my car un-charged because the power company decided it was peak time…. or if there’s a wifi hiccup and the charger loses communication with home base and defaults to ‘everything is peak – no charging’ mode.

      I still don’t know how much home charging I’ll be doing, with chargers available at work.

      1. I see quite a few portable Level 2 chargers for sale for $200 to $250.

        Amazon.com: Level 2 EV Charger 32Amp 240V NEMA14-50 Plug Home/Outdoor Portable Charger for Tesla Adjustable Current with 16.4FT Cable Compatible with All Tesla Models 3/Y/S/X : Automotive

        32 AMP EV Charger Level 2 with 21ft Extension Cord | Lectron — Lectron EV (ev-lectron.com)

        I might buy one eventually, but part of me wants to prove a point that 120V outlets are adequate for most drivers (I’ve driven around 75,000 miles using only a level 1 charger).

        1. I did grab a portable (level 1) charger. I’ll be using that while I look into a level 2 if needed. I’m fine with an installed Level 2 charger. No benefit to having a portable one for me. It’s not like I’m going to find many available 220 outlets outside of me garage -and even then there are like 4 different plugs.

        2. I’m in the 120V crowd as well. I would want an electrician out to do the 220v outlet, but have yet to feel the need to charge at that rate. We did about 7000 miles last year on 120V. If my ICE were replaced with a PHEV or EV I would probably go for a 220V charger then, because I only have room for charging 1 at a time, and a quick charge would make for less musical chairs with cars.

      2. I have 2 Grizzl-e chargers. No Frills but really heavy duty. Made in Canada. $350. standard Nema plug (just plug it in) Has a dip-switch you can set to whatever amps your 220 circuit is. Highly recommend.

  24. Obviously one of those Toyota Mirai so you can write 100 articles on how terrible it is. Including an in-depth series on trying to make your own hydrogen at home.

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