While I often try to bring a unique angle and perspective to the automotive news of the day, sometimes it’s important to repeat myself for those in the back of the class who maybe didn’t catch me the first 19 times. Ahem, Mr. Nissan, just a reminder that America wants hybrids and you have none of them for sale here. Zero!
That’s right, I’m going to be talking about Nissan’s global earnings report, which seems somewhat decent until you see how well Honda is doing!
I’ll then swing back around to the West Coast where Waymo is now under investigation for an incident with a bicyclist. And, finally, I want to talk about debt and auto loan delinquencies.
What an exciting Thursday! Wait, it’s Thursday already?
Nissan Isn’t Exactly Thriving In A Post-Pandemic Environment
When I wrote about Trimflation last year I focused on pickup trucks because it was the easiest way, in my mind, to try to track the phenomenon. But it wasn’t just trucks and it wasn’t just domestic automakers.
Looking back on Nissan’s recent North American results, it’s pretty clear that the company also benefitted from empty dealer lots as a way to squeeze margins out of higher-trim vehicles. Every time I see a Rock Creek Pathfinder that’s a couple of years old I wonder… is that what this person absolutely intended to buy? How much over MSRP did someone pay for a Rock Creek Pathfinder?
Overall, Nissan is still doing fine. The company, like many Japanese companies, is on a fiscal year that ends in March; through the first three quarters of the year the company saw an increase in both revenue and income.
The third quarter (October-December) of 2023 was a little rockier, though, especially in North America where operating income was down about 57% to $227 million according to the company’s latest report.
Sales in the United States were actually up about 5.6% at the end of 2023, but Nissan’s sales were much lower than Honda (33%) and Toyota (15%) during the same period, and overall lagged the market.
Automotive News has a good review of what’s going on and points out that one of Nissan’s key internal financial measures, net revenue per unit, showed a 6% slide in the United States (which means Nissan is not making as much money for every car it sells). AN‘s Hans Griemel listened in on the earnings call and captured a key piece here:
“The high interest rate inflation is hampering affordability for the customer,” CFO Stephen Ma said Thursday while announcing financial results for the fiscal third quarter. “So, we are focused on making sure we bring the right vehicles, in the right segments to customers.”
And what might those products be? Certainly not the dull Nissan Ariya or aging Nissan Leaf.
As Greimel points out, Nissan already sells the X-Trail (our Rogue) in other markets with a hybrid system called e-Power. It’s, uh, not perfect, but it’s something:
I’ve found Nissan’s whole product lineup pretty mediocre as of late, though I need to drive some more products. The new Pathfinder does look intriguing and the Nissan Rogue continues to be a popular and relatively affordable crossover.
Nissan also deserves credit for building actual cars, including the theoretically sub-$20k Nissan Versa.
(If you don’t get the image references they’re from this).
Honda Has Hybrids, Is Killing It
I already touched on Honda’s January sales, which were definitely buoyed by the availability of hybrids. Now we’ve got hard numbers from Honda and the company is forecasting a full-year profit (also ending in March like Nissan) of 1.25 trillion yen, or $8.4 billion, up about 4% from its original estimate.
In the third fiscal quarter (October-December), overall operating profits rose about 35%, which was definitely helped by a 33% year-over-year sales increase for the United States.
There are a lot of factors here. Hybrids are a big one as they do tend to command a premium over non-hybrid vehicles. Honda’s product mix is also great, and every vehicle in every segment is at least competitive, with maybe the exception of the Ridgeline (which I nevertheless really like).
Honda was also hard-hit by the pandemic chip shortage and some of this growth is just a result of normalizing production, or as the company’s CFO Eiji Fujimura put it:
Firm demand in the United States as well as a production recovery in Japan led to an increase in unit sales and overall results which exceeded the results of the same period last fiscal year.
To quote the great KRS-ONE: A real thug is a thug that’s hush.
California DMV Reviewing Latest Waymo Crash With Cyclist
Robotaxis, like regular taxis, keep having accidents and incidents in California. The latest, per Reuters, involves a Google Waymo robotaxi and a cyclist in San Francisco:
Waymo said its vehicle was at a complete stop at a four-way intersection when a large truck turned into the intersection. At its turn to proceed, the Waymo car moved forward.
However, the cyclist was behind the truck and not visible as they crossed into the Waymo vehicle’s path. When the cyclist was fully visible, the Waymo’s vehicle braked heavily, but wasn’t able to avoid the collision, the company said.
The cyclist wasn’t seriously injured and didn’t go to the hospital. This sounds like an accident that could have happened to anyone. and Waymo has probably learned the Cruise lesson that forthrightness with the media and investigators is the only logical way to respond.
As a reminder, David rode in a Waymo robotaxi and had a good experience.
Auto Delinquencies Are On The Rise
The Federal Reserve Bank of New York is out with its Quarterly Report on Household Debt and Credit and, unsurprisingly, auto delinquencies are on the rise.
“Credit card and auto loan transitions into delinquency are still rising above pre-pandemic levels,” said Wilbert van der Klaauw, economic research advisor at the New York Fed. “This signals increased financial stress, especially among younger and lower-income households.”
There’s an accompanying blog post that goes into great detail about this that’s a fun read (I mean, as fun as reading about this dreary topic can be), but none of this will be a surprise to regular The Morning Dump readers as I’ve already touched on the particularly bad loan vintages that started popping up during the pandemic as buyers paid over sticker for cars.
From the New York Fed’s blog post:
Motor vehicles saw some of the most pronounced and persistent price increases during the pandemic inflationary episode, as supply chains and chip shortages limited production. During this spell, auto loan balances ballooned. The average origination amount—that is, the borrowing amount of a car loan—had crept up slowly between 2015 and 2020 at a pace of under one percent each year, reaching about $18,000 in the first quarter of 2020. But when car prices soared in 2021 and 2022, the average amount of newly originated auto loans jumped up as well, by 11 percent through 2021 and another 10 percent in 2022. By the end of 2022, the average origination amount on auto loans was nearly $24,000.
Obviously, trimflation also comes into play here, though it wasn’t called about by name.
If there’s any good news here it’s that the average dollar amount of newly originated loans is starting to go down.
What I’m Listening To As I Write TMD
The Yeah Yeah Yeahs! and their impossible-impossible-to-avoid-at-coffee-shops-near-college-campuses-in-the early-aughts “Fever To Tell” and all-time banger “Maps.” My friend Miriam used to sing this song to me all the time and it took us a couple of years to realize it’s because she thought Karen O was singing “MATT” and not “MAPS.” I was a Geography major, so I just thought she was always serenading me because I really liked maps.
The Big Question
Does Nissan have any car ideas? Why don’t we rank Nissan vehicles in their respective segments, and you can tell me how competitive you think they are:
- Leaf
- Ariya
- Pathfinder
- Rogue
- Kicks
- Murano
- Armada
- Versa
- Sentra
- Altima
- Maxima
- Frontier
- Titan/Titan XD
- Nissan Z
- GT-R
What do you think?
Is Nissan doing it’s “we finance anyone with a pulse and income” stuff? Driving down the auto dealer lined main road, there are lots of Nissans and Infinitis on the lot. I sure wouldn’t want to be caught dead in one unless it was a rental.
Yes. If you want to have a good laugh go on your car search site of choice, select Infiniti or Nissan, select the “no accidents option”, and watch how much the number available shrinks. It’s mind blowing. This also works for Chargers/Challengers.
Would like to drive the late to see how it feels.
The rest of the line up is a bad joke. No thank you.
And unlike the old man in the photos, I don’t want to be a Pirate…
Nissans are…fine. They are generally speaking, acceptable transportation appliances. Other than the new Z and the GTR, there isn’t anything they sell that I like. The only Nissan I have ever driven was a 2014 Versa Note rental, and it was…fine. Better than I expected, anyway. Admittedly I was very sleep deprived and hadn’t driven in over two weeks, having been in Peru.
The new Versa seems like a pretty good deal, there’s a bunch of them around here that can be had for as low as $16,900. I’m not sure why you’d buy a Mirage when you can get a Versa for the same money. Unless Nissan wouldn’t finance you and Mitsubishi would, I suppose.
I actually saw an Ariya in the wild the other day, I had to do a double take because my mind registered “Rogue” but something felt off. Again, it seems like an acceptable EV, I lump it in with EVs like the equally dull and uninspired ID.4.
My wife has a 2015 Pathfinder. The one with the CVT that explodes.
We’ve never had an issue. Repairs have been minimal. We have 240,000 km on it.
The thing is a couch on wheels and she is happy with that.
And that’s fantastic! Not everything has to be sporty or dynamic to drive. There is very much a place in the automotive world for couches on wheels. Glad to hear your CVT has been reliable…I have to assume that a decent amount of them are, or no one would buy Nissans at all.
The only Nissan I seriously considered buying in the past 5 years was a used Gloria Grand Torismo in the 1993 to 1995 vintage. I only hesitated because getting JDM parts is hard enough even without the pandemic.
Between the J30 and 300zx, most of the y32 parts are available in US stock. The big body CedGlo line-up are kinda the best deal in importing r/n. Cheap for RWD Nissan, and most parts are available at your local Infiniti dealer.
I haven’t given up on the idea. I still want something that is not just an obvious rebadged RHD of an American market car.
Speaking of Honda and hybrids, is the Civic hybrid still coming to the US this year?
Honda announced a hybrid Civic for the 2025 MY. Unless they change their minds in the next few months, it’s happening.
Thanks!
Thanks!
It’s expected to arrive alongside the Civic refresh this summer, and is expected to make up 40% of Civic sales.
Thanks!
I can only suggest (but not endorse) Versa, because I don’t think there is any competition. Does Kia still offer the Rio? The rest just looks like a bunch of off-brand junk listed on Alibaba.
Yep they do! Competition in the sub-$20k space is limited to the: Mirage, Versa, Rio, and Forte (at least around here).
I wouldn’t buy any Nissan right now. The only model that interest me at all is the Z, and I’m barely interested in that overweight thing.
It hurts me to say that. I was a Nissan fan for a long time and owned four of them.
I hope they find their way, but I’m not going to be a guinea pig for their hybrid system when they bring it here, I do not want anything CVT and I don’t need an 84 month loan. I don’t see myself on a Nissan lot any time soon.
Nissan is partners with Renault, Renault owns Dacia, bring us a $14,500 Nissan Logan.
Nissan! Bring back the Murano CrossCabriolet! You’ll sell dozens and the press coverage will be huge (and scathing)!
There was one in my area a few years back. It always made me smile when spotting it. Seemed to be a summer ride? Haven’t seen it in a while.
Ditto. And sure, I was probably more laughing at it than with it, but somebody got a vehicle large enough for a family with a droptop. Who cares if it looks a little dorky? I also look a little dorky so I’m hardly one to throw stones on that point. 😉
Someone who gives that large a middle finger to automotive sensibility either is madly in love with the car or is the area’s best troll. Either way, it’s an absurd vehicle and glad that it found a home. Just not in my garage.
CROSSCABRIOLET GANG REPRESENT! There are DOZENS of us! DOZENS!
Part of the problem for Nissan was that, similar to Ford, they had a big product push in 2012-13, some of which were actually competitive at the time* and then let most of it all just linger. The Rogue and Pathfinder for example, while maybe not best in class, aren’t really in the back half either, they seem like big improvements over their predecessors. Pathfinder is in a segment thin on hybrid offerings, so it can get away with one for a bit, but the lack of one in the Rogue is an omission – when Honda has product mixes tilted to over half hybrid, and Toyota is going all-hybrid. The Rogue is rated for good fuel economy, but also has NHTSA investigating the VC-T motor. And the e-Power setup in the Rogue might seem like a better option if it weren’t also paired to that same engine.
I suppose the Frontier could stand to gain a few sales as the one remaining naturally aspirated V6 option in its segment, but it debuted with some of Nissan’s older switchgear so I have a hard time really seeing it as a true modernization of the old bones. The Titan didn’t really stand a chance, the Armada needs an update.
The Versa/Sentra/Kicks don’t seem like bad options for their pricepoint and not really any worse at doing the job intended than a Hyundai/Kia competitor. But on another end of the market, H/K have also done much better at selling cars >$40-50k than Nissan. A Palluride or Genesis is much nicer than anything in the Infiniti lineup and about the same cachet.
*The 2nd gen Rogue was a viable option for the class when it was new, just dull…but then everyone lapped it. The old Pathfinder felt and looked 5 years old on arrival in 2013 though. The Murano was plush for the time, but now it’s a “they still make that?” thing like the Ford Edge, and the segment has either shrunk or moved on.
I’m a dead-hard Nissan apologist, so beware the following:
Having now driven a Z and a ///Mupra, the Z is better car. Like ///Mupra is a more refined, composed experience. feels very Grand Tourer. Z feels more “hooning w/ the boys”. Overall the Mustang is probably a better car then both, but I’m not my Dad, I ain’t driven a ‘stang. And yeah, platform didn’t change, but the FM platform rules, I didn’t want it change!
GT-R competes with no one, so auto-win. You could buy a Porsche or something. Really how many people are cross shopping the two.
Kicks and Rouge are totally fine cars, in a field of totally fine cars, for people who want fine cars. No one gets a point, cause it doesn’t better they are all the same.
Sentra sucks. The B16 and 14 were better cars and it should have Spec-V again
Titan lets you make sick-ass VK V8 noises. So leg up all the other boosted bois. Point Datsun.
Frontier is the same as the old Frontier, which is exactly what people who buy Frontiers/Tacos want. Unlikely the now I guess unreliable Tacoma.
Altima lost the VQ and its death wish. Also, I think they’re all KRs now? So good luck there. Car looks very plain and forgettable. No one wants a FWD midsize sedan. Moving on.
No one wants a large FWD sedan, no one cares about the Maxima.
Versa is better then the mirage or Rio, point Nissan
Armada is full Patrol now, so it can take a beating while sounding like a discount Ferrari. If it wasn’t 3/4th a M1 Abrams in size, it would sick. Still better than the Hoe, and Expedition to Trader Joe’s.
Despite rumors to the contrary, The Murano is still alive! Completely forgot it exists, probably see tens of them a day. Most forgettable car on earth. It’s fine I guess, or it’s not, no one remembers this car expect the Million people who bought one.
IDK, seems like Nissan is pretty good about not being last. Which I guess is profitable. And if dudes named Carlos have taught us anything, profitable Nissan isn’t always guaranteed.
What’s your take on the Pathfinder? I would never buy one, but I actually don’t think it’s bad for what it is. The Rock Creek mostly looks good, though I wish they had actually increased it
s offroad capability beyond just adding AT tires. I give them credit for using an AT that’s more aggressive than what you can get on a Tacoma/4Runner.
I’d be really interested to see a modern Xterra come out, I think that could be a good seller for them, especially if they used the Frontier drivetrain in it.
The regular Pathfinder/QX60 is pretty good as a road vehicle. It’s got a VQ and dropped the CVT. So you’ll get we’ve been doing this for twenty years Nissan, and not idk we’ll see what happens Nissan. But as a softroader, very “actually a mini-van” for the job. I’m a bit jaded about the Path/Qx, as it killed my beloved FX, which replacing a mid-engine crossover that no one bought, with a FWD based van that some people bought was a lateral move.
The Pathfinder is pretty good for what it is. It is the sadness for what it isn’t that makes us old farts grumble.
It is not BOF. It does not have low range. Even 2nd Gen can get up on 33’s and do stuff like an XJ.
Gen 4 and 5 are what they are, which is fine, but not what they were, which isn’t.
Also, I went to spec out an F-150 that would be close to a Titan SV 4×4. The Ford is about 10k more and has 2 fewer years of warranty. People kind of forget that the Titan has a standard V8….
>No one wants a large FWD sedan, no one cares about the Maxima.
I do, to both points. I just like how it looks and drives.
Out of Nissan’s lineup, the only “competitive” vehicles are the Rogue and Altima, but not in good ways.
The Altima seems to be a good option if you own rental fleets. In my experience, they are some of the nicer rental options when the Camrys are all gone.
The Rogue is competitive in the ‘I want a new compact SUV (or anything new, but there isn’t a Mitsubishi dealer near me), but I don’t have the money for a CRV or Rav.
I didn’t even know they still made the Murano until I had to take one from Avis last Summer.
Car and Driver and some other publications are desperately trying to hype up the Rogue as the best thing in its class. I don’t buy it. Jatco CVT=no dice. No hybrid=no dice. No thanks!
It is significantly cheaper though and I’m sure they discount them on top of that/Nissan will finance anyone with a pulse…so I guess if you’re credit challenged and/or can’t stretch your budget very far they have appeal.
But my advice to people in those situations would be try to save up for a CRV/RAV 4 if they can or buy one used. I’ve had multiple coworkers with Rogues and it’s not a matter of IF they’ll need a new transmission, it’s a matter of when.
Nissan seems to be “competing” against the equally uninspired Chevy Equinox and Malibu for rental car lot spots.
But I believe the Equinox is new next year, and the Malibu is probably dead. So GM at least seems to be trying harder. And they don’t put those shitty CVTs in their rides.
I have no interest in Nissan besides older models
The absolute best new car that you can buy in the USA with a 5-speed manual transmission is the Nissan Versa. Why? Because it’s the *ONLY* 2024 model sold in the USA with a 5-speed manual transmission.
It’s hard to argue with that!
The Stellantis of Japan, everyone know how awful their CVT transmissions are and how dated their product looks. Bring back Nissan pre 2000, they were on par with Toyota and Honda, not anymore.
Back in the day my buddy had a Stanza with a ton of miles on it that he got for like $500 from someone. The thing was as unkillable as any Toyota from that era.
“Every time I see a Rock Creek Pathfinder that’s a couple of years old I wonder… is that what this person absolutely intended to buy? How much over MSRP did someone pay for a Rock Creek Pathfinder?”
Meet my in-laws! In their case they already owned a 4-5 year old Rogue, and for reasons unknown decided to “upgrade” to the Rock Creek Pathfinder. My in-laws only time spent outside is between the car and the building that they intend to be inside of. It has all-terrain tires that make the car less efficient and noisy as hell. It has a massive roof rack that neither of them is physically able to use. They’re leasing it at some sort of insane number, and I guarantee that it was technically purchased above MSRP.
Sooooo yeah the sort of person who buys that car is someone who is bored, sees something they want, and buys it without considering if it makes sense AT ALL.
Edit: I will give them credit for buying it in the excellent green color that’s available. It’s not a bad thing to look at thanks to the green.
As for the question, Nissan makes a bunch of cars that are either completely outdated or like, semi-competitive. The Frontier looks ok? I personally wouldn’t recommend a single thing they make, though if you can get a deal on a Versa, that at least seems like a sort of ok value.
Thank you! I assume this is the story with many of the Rock Creek Pathfinders.
Is “Rock Creek” the only fake internal brand name for a division of a car manufacturer that was only ever applied to one random model? Normally if you come up with branding like that it’s applied over a range of cars. What is Rock Creek even, and does anyone care?
I feel like my inlaws may have fallen for branding and no one is even sure what that branding is supposed to be.
There’s little aftermarket in the US for Frontiers. In the off-road community, one can find all kinds of mods for Tacos and Wranglers. Not so much for other brands.
If you want a truck in that genre Taco is always the answer
Unless you have a torso.
Haha, my praise was faint praise. I would much rather a Taco.
That being said, I’m not sure if I’m on-board with the changes to the Taco, even if it’s probably more modern and usable, I feel like the most recent design makes it a lot like all of the other midsize trucks.
OMG! A cyclist ignored the rules of the road and went through a stop sign when it wasn’t their turn!?!?!
I, for one, am shocked.
Careful, the spandex patrol will be after you for daring to question them.
How dare they think they’re an automobile!
(Yeah, think of the percentage of drivers who are entitled clueless idiots in a hurry, and imagine that same percentage behind handlebars, and operating with the knowledge that stopping means you have to exert your ass to get moving again!)
With the cyclists I curse–not all cyclists, just the ones making a bad name for cyclists–it’s not that they think they’re cars, it’s that they don’t; that is, a car would wait its turn and turn carefully, but lots of cyclists pick and choose which rules of the road to follow at any given moment, flipping between Pedestrian Mode and Car Mode and Bike Mode (and corresponding signals and lanes of traffic).
You’re exactly right about the preservation of momentum, but it’s also immediate directional maneuverability, almost no stopping distance, and basically unobstructed 360-degree visibility. Even hummingbirds fly into windows!
My partner and I were car shopping a few weeks ago, specifically something with three rows, and when I took her by the Pathfinder she just shrugged. She then asked if it came as a hybrid, as the Highlander and others do, and when I told her it didn’t she completely lost interest.
And there you have Mitsubishi who, when they worked with Nissan on the new Outalnder, adopted the horrendous 2.5L4 Nissan engine for the current model Outlander EXCEPT for the PHEV. Where Mitsubishi retains their original 2.4L with the hybrid.
Words unsaid, perhaps.
Also of note: the standard Hybrid Mitsubishi uses the 4B40 4-cylinder 1.5T rather than the Nissan 3-cylinder KR1.5DETT (curiously neither available in America has a hybrid; only the PHEV).
The 4B40 is the same engine as in the Eclipse Cross.
Wait, is the Nissan 2.5 bad now? Because it was good when it was the QR25DE. Decent output and good torque for a NA 4-cyl.
No complaints about Mitsubishi using their own MIVEC engine in the PHEV, I was just curious.
It’s the PR25DD now. Which looks and feels exactly like the QR, expect its direct injected. It was in all the Rouges before they switched over to the KR. They’re fine motors. Not going to light the world on fire, gets from point A to point B when you need it.
The QR25 is easily the least refined 4 cylinder I ever drove in the modern era (i.e. excluding things like the GM Iron Duke). A drive in a rental Altima with the 2.5 and a CVT made me swear off that engine, transmission, and nearly the whole brand – and we were a family that owned several Nissan vehicles (several hardbody pickups in both 4 and 6 cylinder guises, two Pathfinders, a Murano, a couple Frontiers…)
Oh it sounds awful, but that’s a given with Nissan engines. But I had a 2010 Rogue, and it performed fine — better than the other cars I cross-shopped at the time, even with the CVT.
People hated the NVH of the Chrysler 2.4 World Engine, but when I had one in a rental Avenger, I didn’t think it was that bad. Maybe I just have low expectations for any n/a 4 cylinder…
The lack of hybrid option is why I will likely replace my old Outback with something other than a Subaru since it’s unlikely they will have a hybrid Outback or Forester option in the 2024 calendar year.
Rumors of a hybrid Outback in 2025, but who knows if it will be a good system. Fingers crossed with will have a XT with Toyota’s Hybrid MAX system. Still a rumor though.
If I had to guess, the current gen OB with continued good sales numbers will play on till next gen in 2026.
I really want to like Subaru, I think the new Wilderness models are cool, but I could never buy one as long as they stick with that 2.5L/CVT combo. I think that boxer engine is even more archaic than the 4.0 in my 4Runner.
It’s not an EJ, it’s an FB. Toyota’s 1GR dates to 2002, the FB 2010.
Thanks for the clarification. I still hate it.
Haha, totally fair! Not sticking up for the cars, just the facts, sir.
My hatred may be irrational, I’m associating the new on with the previous version that not only had a tendency to spit out head gaskets, but also required fairly frequent timing belt changes. I never heard about transmission issues with the older ones though. The CVT on the other hand…
The under 2.5 liter EJs were great. Unfortunately, they only made 2.5s from about ’99 on. I thought the t-belt changes were 90k, like most t-belt engines. Earlier ones were 60k and that was annoying, though I made a tool for the SOHC engines that held the cams in place and that helped. FA/B and EZ are t-chain. The autos were probably a lot more robust than CVTs, but that’s more of a guess based on not hearing people talking about failures.
I had a 2011 6MT 2.5 NA Impreza I bought new for <$20K. Great car, until my ex could no longer work the clutch due to health problems. Traded it in for a 2016 Forester with a CVT that my daughter still drives. It seems like the lag between pushing the gas pedal and feeling any acceleration can be measured in seconds.
To be fair, the 4.0L /5A in my 4Runner is kind of the same thing, haha. Push the pedal and wait for it to eventually respond, the response mostly being the engine screaming like it’s in pain.
The hybrid Forester is confirmed but it’s not showing up until next year
That in Wilderness trim might actually make me take a serious look at Subaru. I eventually want to replace my 4Runner with something more efficient, but nothing currently ticks the boxes.
Nothing class-leading that’s for sure. Their trucks are decent. I agree the new Pathfinder looks alright. Other than that, totally forgettable.
I’m annoyed by the Nissan commercials saying how exciting and sporty they are, they have 2 sports cars so that’s 1 up on a few brands, but the rest of their lineup is just meh.
I started to go through a line-by-line list of their products and rapidly realized that even the ones that are technically competitive get pushed down the list by the Nissan brand stigma. The only one that the Nissan brand theoretically benefits would be the new Z, and I still haven’t seen one on the road.
I actually saw one on the road last week! I wasn’t close enough to get a good look, but they do exist!
I think the easy answer to your question is that Nissan has IMO zero class-leading products and very few that aren’t bottom half.
Nissan’s unofficial slogan, “Hey, at least we’re not Mitsubishi.”
based on teh amount of rogues and whatever that crossover Mitsubishi I see here in MN i think they are honestly both uninspiring but well selling. I’m going to guess they are maybe the only midsizish crossovers that can be had for near or under 30k
You can drive off the lot in a lowish trim Forester for under $30k. I wonder if Mitsubishi got a big sales bump during the quarantine when there were no other cars on lots.
possibly also not gouging because they are mitsubishi
Hey now! The Outlander PHEV is an oddly compelling product and a unique offering in that class. I can’t say that about a single thing Nissan makes.
Agreed. I give Mitsubishi credit for making a relatively affordable PHEV SUV when no one else seemed interested.
My neighbors have one. It’s honestly really nice. Mitsubishi threw a bit of a Hail Mary with that product and I’m glad that it seems to be paying off. And not only is that class (7 seat unibody SUVs) devoid of PHEVs…it’s devoid of hybrids across the board.
The Outlander is a unique and compelling product and it has a chance to bring them back to relevance. We’ll definitely look at one when we replace my wife’s car in a few years.
I can’t remember the last time I seriously considered purchasing a Nissan product. Probably the Infiniti G35/37 coupe when it still existed. For something wearing the Nissan brand, it’s before I was able to buy new cars.
I have a 2003 g35 coupe as a summer car and that and the FX35 were maybe the last exciting vehicles they made. Sad because the mid 90s maxima really was something.
I guess I mean mass market. The Z and GTR are exciting just not a whole lot of units moved.
The Z and GTR were competitive when released, but I think they are pretty much only for die-hards now.
The GTR is pretty cool and there was a period of time when they were shockingly cheap. Probably my biggest single regret as an enthusiast was not buying one when I could have. A local Infiniti dealer had one listed in the 40s back in 2020. It had some miles on (right under 50k if I recall correctly) but the CarFax was clean.
At the time I was shopping in the high 20s/low 30s for my first enthusiast car and would’ve had to stretch my budget for it/thought it would be too ridiculous to daily. So I bought a GTI that I wound up hating within a few months and that GTR is probably worth $80,000+ now.
Never again. If I get another chance like that I’m taking it and figuring the money out later. And to add insult to injury my salary would increase by nearly 50% in the next two years. I’d probably have it paid off by now and be sitting on a nearly six figure asset. In case you can’t tell that car haunts me to this day.
To be clear, in discussions like this I’m always and only referring to new cars unless specified.
And a new GTR starting at $121,000 or a Nismo for $221,000 makes no sense to me compared to what else you can get new for that money.
I love the GTR but I agree. And honestly, they’re not even great secondhand buys anymore. The only ones that I see under $70,000 are either rebuilt titles or sitting at 100,000 tooner miles. Even after the market went apeshit in 21/22 there will some floating around in the 60s. Those days are long gone.
For that they sell for I’d just get an LC500 of comparable price/condition. Also Japanese, similar power, not quite as fast but V8>V6. For the cost of one brand new I see no reason to choose it over a Z06 or the best 911 you can find.
The Nismo one is beyond comprehension. You’re talking Ferrari/McLaren/Lamborghini money for a fucking Nissan. I get that JDM bros aren’t the most logical people in the world and that for some folks a car being Japanese outweighs all else. But if you gave me $220,000 that I had to spend on a car a GTR wouldn’t even cross my mind.
To be fair, they made M45/M56 for decades. Which is a midsized Japanese V8 sedan with between 300-450hp dependent on generation. They never really sold well.
Nissan could sell five times the amount of manual Z cars they bring over here. So that’s a quick fix that would help. But they really need to take a look at the competition. They aren’t even playing the same game.
And you are spot on about Orzolek. Just enough range. Palpable angst.
Primo.
I only listen to music with palpable angst.
You want palpable angst? What I’m listening to while writing this, Live audio of SCOTUS!