Electric vehicles, whether they be cars, trucks, or boats, are often subject to the public’s misconceptions. It’s always the way with new technology. The very nature of electric boats was the topic of a recent speech from Donald Trump. Are you safer standing on a sinking electric boat, or jumping in the water with a shark?
The speech was delivered at Trump’s rally in Nevada on Sunday. You can watch the clip on Twitter to get the full gist, but it’s a fairly straightforward question. “What would happen if the boat sank from its weight… and you’re in the boat, and you had this tremendously powerful battery… and the battery’s now underwater, and there’s a shark that’s approximately ten yards over there?” asked Trump. “Do I stay on top of the boat and get electrocuted, or do I jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted?”
So what is the answer? Should you stay with the boat, or go for the shark?
Trump: It must be because of my relationship with M.I.T., very smart, I say, what would happen if the boat sank, and you have this tremendously powerful battery, and the battery is now underwater…. Do I get electrocuted or do I jump over by the shark? pic.twitter.com/zAUkDoOBD3
— Acyn (@Acyn) June 9, 2024
Real Talk
I’ll answer this in two ways. First philosophically, then scientifically. Put another way—first with vibes, then with physics.
Let’s say you’re on your electric boat and it starts sinking. You feel the water lapping at your ankles, and you spot a shark swimming a short distance away. If you believe yourself to be at imminent risk of electrocution on the boat, you should absolutely go near the shark instead. That is, if you know you’re about to be electrocuted, that’s certain death. The shark might be nice, and may have zero interest in eating you. Thus, based on probabilities, go hang with the shark.
Of course, this assumes that staying on the boat is certain death. Science and engineering would suggest that’s not the case.
If your electric boat sinks, that really sucks. But it’s unlikely to cause you a serious electric shock. Engineers who design electric boats are smart enough to plan for this contingency. They know the boat is going to get wet. They know it might get too wet. Thus, batteries are typically well-sealed against water ingress, and heavily protected against damage. Ultimately, the same applies to your electric car, if you end up drowning it in a lake.
Indeed, last time Trump brought this up in 2023, Heatmap did the research. Multiple electric boat manufacturers confirmed their batteries are rated to water immersion specs suitable for submariners, or close to it. Indeed, Arc Boats notes that their packs are completely watertight. Their batteries are designed to be safe during sinking. Connectors are highly rated and the company claims to have run all sorts of safety tests on worst case scenarios, including where water might come into contact with high-voltage areas.
Even if the battery was heavily damaged and suffered water ingress, that wouldn’t necessarily put you in immediate danger. If you drop a big battery into the water at the beach, for example, it doesn’t immediately electrocute every fish in the whole ocean. Fundamentally, when submerged, the electrical current wants to flow from one terminal of the battery to the other. It will take the easiest possible path through the water to do so. That’ll usually be the shortest possible distance from one terminal to the other. If you’re in the water a few feet away, the electrons aren’t going to take a hike out of the battery’s negative terminal, come and zap you, and then go back to the positive terminal. They’re going to take—quite literally—the path of least resistance.
It all comes down to the conductivity of water. Salty sea water is more conductive than the human body. Thus, if the battery’s terminals were exposed under water, current would typically want to flow from one terminal to the other through the water itself. Unless you were right by it, you probably wouldn’t be in immediate danger. You’d want to avoid being between the terminals, lest you get in the way of the current path.
illustration: Torch
One situation where this can change slightly is in fresh water. This situation can be a little bit more dangerous. Fresh water is typically less conductive than the human body. Thus, if you’re near the battery, current may prefer to flow from one terminal to another through you instead of through the less-conductive water itself. Don’t get too close, and don’t position yourself between the terminals, and you’re probably going to be okay.
The phenomenon of getting shocked in a body of water is typically called electric shock drowning. The combination of electric shocks and water is a poor one. You might survive a given electric shock on land, but if it incapacitates you and you slip beneath the water, you can be in much greater danger.
This phenomenon has a long history— after all, electric boats are not the first to use electricity. Most powered boats have some kind of battery system on board, and many even use inverters to generate AC power for running appliances. Some boats are also capable of being hooked up to shore power—usually an AC grid feed when they’re at the dock. All of these can pose risks. Indeed, you’d be well advised never to swim at a marina—a faulty shore power system could electrocute you far more easily than a well-sealed electric boat battery.
In any case, if there’s a battery with exposed terminals in the water, you probably don’t want to sit on it or near it. But it still probably won’t pose an immediate electrocution risk. What’s most likely happening is that the battery is filling with water, which is short circuiting a ton of cells in the pack to each other, all at once. The battery will be dumping energy into the water, creating lots of bubbling as it splits the water through electrolysis. The cells will also probably release toxic gases and the battery may catch fire. That’s worth watching out for, but it’s not an electrocution risk, and it’s not immediate. As an example, we’ve seen a Tesla catch fire underwater—but nobody was electrocuted in the event.
An electric boat merely sinking doesn’t pose much electrocution risk. Just get off it and swim to safety. You obviously aren’t driving it back to the dock at this point anyway.
illustration: Torch
However, if your electric boat hits rocks or crashes with another craft, that’s more likely to be dangerous. Your prime concern should be avoiding a damaged battery or high voltage wiring. Industry convention has this clearly marked in orange. High voltage lines could be exposed, or the battery housing could be cracked open. A modern battery’s management system will typically shut down as much of the battery as possible in this event. However, even when “shut down” the battery still contains a great deal of energy which can be discharged through the water or damaged wiring.
In these scenarios, you want to get clear of loose wiring and battery components. If you feel any tingles, that’s a great motivator to get away from whatever’s causing it. It’s unlikely, but a broken or damaged craft could have high voltage cabling coming in contact with metal hardware, like railings or ladders. If you grabbed such a railing, you might be effectively in circuit with one terminal of the battery. if you then lowered yourself in to the water, you might form a circuit with the other terminal, and put yourself in harms way. For this reason, Formula 1 drivers are advised to jump clear of their cars in the event of a bad accident. You’d be well advised to do the same if your electric boat was badly damaged.
Credit: Marcelo Cidrack
Ultimately, if your electric boat is merely sinking, you don’t need to flee. You’re safer near it than near a hungry shark. If your boat is badly damaged, though, you’ll want to avoid any damaged wiring or battery modules and try to jump clear of the wreck.
Still, the decision you make ultimately comes down to your own beliefs and personal preferences. For Trump, it was an easy call. “If there was a shark, or you get electrocuted?” he postulated. “I’ll take electrocution every single time. I’m not getting near the shark.” And that’s fair enough.
Image credits: Arc Boats, eDyn, Marcelo Cidrack via Unsplash license, Drawings by Lewin Day
OK. What we have here is one crazy fuck. Like a complete douche bag imbecile.
Convicted on all 34 counts. Belongs in prison. All there is left to say is fuck this idiot…
Sorry but fuck all his brain dead supporters too.
OK. What we have here is one crazy fuck. Like a complete douche bag imbecile.
Convicted on all 34 counts. Belongs in prison. All there is left to say is fuck this idiot…
Sorry but fuck all his brain dead supporters too.
So there’s this one old guy, who at least manages to keep his shit together, and then there’s this other old guy who obviously cannot keep his shit together. Do I vote for the first old guy, even though he’s old and boring and doesn’t prove his masculinity by punching down? Or do I vote for the second old guy, who talks so loudly that everything he says must be true?
So there’s this one old guy, who at least manages to keep his shit together, and then there’s this other old guy who obviously cannot keep his shit together. Do I vote for the first old guy, even though he’s old and boring and doesn’t prove his masculinity by punching down? Or do I vote for the second old guy, who talks so loudly that everything he says must be true?
I’d choose the bear.
As long as it’s not a Grizzly, or Polar bear.
“I Would Treat You Better than Bears or Men”, says Sasquatch
I’d choose the bear.
As long as it’s not a Grizzly, or Polar bear.
“I Would Treat You Better than Bears or Men”, says Sasquatch
Of all the craziness in whatever it was he said, perhaps the craziest is the contention by his (apparent) attempt to make fun of them that EV boats are a big thing or will be soon and that’s from me, someone who converted an old sit-inside kayak to electric. Fine (if expensive) for small displacement hulls, but the planing hulls popular with recreational boaters require far too much power and don’t have the surplus buoyancy, plus the cost is outrageous. I designed a small power boat and thought of building it EV. Besides a decent size battery weighing too much, the cost of the battery alone would have been more than double a gas powered (4-stroke 60hp outboard) version of the entire boat altogether.
Of all the craziness in whatever it was he said, perhaps the craziest is the contention by his (apparent) attempt to make fun of them that EV boats are a big thing or will be soon and that’s from me, someone who converted an old sit-inside kayak to electric. Fine (if expensive) for small displacement hulls, but the planing hulls popular with recreational boaters require far too much power and don’t have the surplus buoyancy, plus the cost is outrageous. I designed a small power boat and thought of building it EV. Besides a decent size battery weighing too much, the cost of the battery alone would have been more than double a gas powered (4-stroke 60hp outboard) version of the entire boat altogether.
Is it just me and my wishful thinking, or do some of the people behind him start to look confused halfway through this derailment of thought, like they’re finally questioning if Trump’s all there? I mean, at some point some of these people must surely ask themselves if they heard him right, like when he “joked” about not caring about his supporters, only their vote. Like, certainly some of them must’ve realised that was him being the most honest he’s ever been, right?
Right?
Please let it not be wishful thinking. Let there be brain cells in those peoples heads, fighting for their survival.
I think the primary thought going through everyone’s head was, “It’s a friggin’ 110 degrees out, and we are standing in direct sunlight right now. I bet the prostate doctor’s office has the a/c cranking…”
Is it just me and my wishful thinking, or do some of the people behind him start to look confused halfway through this derailment of thought, like they’re finally questioning if Trump’s all there? I mean, at some point some of these people must surely ask themselves if they heard him right, like when he “joked” about not caring about his supporters, only their vote. Like, certainly some of them must’ve realised that was him being the most honest he’s ever been, right?
Right?
Please let it not be wishful thinking. Let there be brain cells in those peoples heads, fighting for their survival.
I think the primary thought going through everyone’s head was, “It’s a friggin’ 110 degrees out, and we are standing in direct sunlight right now. I bet the prostate doctor’s office has the a/c cranking…”
The irony is that a sinking boat being circled by a shark is a pretty great metaphor for the political situation here.
The irony is that a sinking boat being circled by a shark is a pretty great metaphor for the political situation here.
How on earth did this brain-scrambled fartsniffer think we recharged the eels, anyway? Or started a conventional boat, for that matter? Yelling at it? Cramming amphetamines up its intake? Whacking it with a rolled-up magazine with his face on it?
I’m actually curious at the alleged “logic” of this line of thinking because there genuinely isn’t any, especially given the fact that marine batteries are readily available all over the place.
As all good intelligent Americans know, we throw our used car batteries into the ocean to recharge them, this is just the ultimate final form of recycling nobody has thought of yet.
Yep. Don’t listen to the AutoZone sheeple. Hurl ’em straight into the salty depths where they belong.
(Sidenote: Gotta love one of Google’s original automated-answer fails. https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39540/google-tells-search-users-its-a-good-idea-to-throw-car-batteries-into-the-ocean)
They can’t ever stop me, it’s completely safe and legal. I’d much rather the eels get a good charge than a measly $10 core charge return. Nature must heal, used car batteries are the solution.
We’re creating whole new reefs for recharging the eels! Truly living in the future.
There’s also such a thing as underwater arc welding, which involves hundreds of amps.
Some of the baddest badasses are underwater welders.
They’d have to be.
Especially if they can mirror weld underwater.
I think your trump capacitor has been fried by a surge of musk. Might want to take a holiday.
When a big giant eel takes your hand for a meal…
…that’s a moray.
How on earth did this brain-scrambled fartsniffer think we recharged the eels, anyway? Or started a conventional boat, for that matter? Yelling at it? Cramming amphetamines up its intake? Whacking it with a rolled-up magazine with his face on it?
I’m actually curious at the alleged “logic” of this line of thinking because there genuinely isn’t any, especially given the fact that marine batteries are readily available all over the place.
As all good intelligent Americans know, we throw our used car batteries into the ocean to recharge them, this is just the ultimate final form of recycling nobody has thought of yet.
Yep. Don’t listen to the AutoZone sheeple. Hurl ’em straight into the salty depths where they belong.
(Sidenote: Gotta love one of Google’s original automated-answer fails. https://www.thedrive.com/tech/39540/google-tells-search-users-its-a-good-idea-to-throw-car-batteries-into-the-ocean)
They can’t ever stop me, it’s completely safe and legal. I’d much rather the eels get a good charge than a measly $10 core charge return. Nature must heal, used car batteries are the solution.
We’re creating whole new reefs for recharging the eels! Truly living in the future.
There’s also such a thing as underwater arc welding, which involves hundreds of amps.
Some of the baddest badasses are underwater welders.
They’d have to be.
Especially if they can mirror weld underwater.
I think your trump capacitor has been fried by a surge of musk. Might want to take a holiday.
When a big giant eel takes your hand for a meal…
…that’s a moray.
I’m going to take a sideways tack on this, because sharks have amazing senses to pick up not only disturbances in the water, but tastes and scents as well. And while the boat sinking might initially give signals not unlike a creature in distress, the chemical cocktail of batteries and debris (especially if the batteries rupture) isn’t likely to leave pleasing tastes in the water. So the shark is probably going to nope the heck out of there. Might as well swim free, the shark is probably going to be more interested in leaving the scene.
I’m going to take a sideways tack on this, because sharks have amazing senses to pick up not only disturbances in the water, but tastes and scents as well. And while the boat sinking might initially give signals not unlike a creature in distress, the chemical cocktail of batteries and debris (especially if the batteries rupture) isn’t likely to leave pleasing tastes in the water. So the shark is probably going to nope the heck out of there. Might as well swim free, the shark is probably going to be more interested in leaving the scene.
Serious answer is that you should stay on the sinking boat for as long as possible so that you don’t have to tread water just yet. Exhaustion and hypothermia in many places are going to be your enemies while you await rescue.
The less serious answer is that you can use the sinking electric boat to kill the shark, making the water safe for you. Bang the side of the boat with the most batteries until the shark attacks. It will bite the batteries and get burnt to a fiery crisp while you watch and laugh. You will have to resist the natural urge to teabag the shark as it dies because then you’ll also become a crispy critter.
Edit: I should have mentioned that people have successfully escaped sunken/sinking submarines despite the presence of massive batteries nearby. The real danger from the batteries is that they tend to produce very nasty toxic gasses when exposed to saltwater, meaning that you could suffocate before you get the chance to escape.
My first thought, as soon as I heard the battery/shark scenario, was a confused, “Wait, haven’t we had electric battery boats for at least a century now in the form of submarines?” I mean, sure, they’re not full time battery boats and when they’re using the batteries they’re usually not surface boats, but all the supposedly dangerous elements have been smooshed all together like this for a very long time and I’ve never heard anybody railing against them.
“You will have to resist the natural urge to teabag the shark as it dies because then you’ll also become a crispy critter.”
Oh sure, like I have that kind of self control.
“The less serious answer is that you can use the sinking electric boat to kill the shark, making the water safe for you. Bang the side of the boat with the most batteries until the shark attacks. It will bite the batteries and get burnt to a fiery crisp while you watch and laugh.”
EXACTLY. Have none of you seen the documentary Jaws II?!?
Serious answer is that you should stay on the sinking boat for as long as possible so that you don’t have to tread water just yet. Exhaustion and hypothermia in many places are going to be your enemies while you await rescue.
The less serious answer is that you can use the sinking electric boat to kill the shark, making the water safe for you. Bang the side of the boat with the most batteries until the shark attacks. It will bite the batteries and get burnt to a fiery crisp while you watch and laugh. You will have to resist the natural urge to teabag the shark as it dies because then you’ll also become a crispy critter.
Edit: I should have mentioned that people have successfully escaped sunken/sinking submarines despite the presence of massive batteries nearby. The real danger from the batteries is that they tend to produce very nasty toxic gasses when exposed to saltwater, meaning that you could suffocate before you get the chance to escape.
My first thought, as soon as I heard the battery/shark scenario, was a confused, “Wait, haven’t we had electric battery boats for at least a century now in the form of submarines?” I mean, sure, they’re not full time battery boats and when they’re using the batteries they’re usually not surface boats, but all the supposedly dangerous elements have been smooshed all together like this for a very long time and I’ve never heard anybody railing against them.
“You will have to resist the natural urge to teabag the shark as it dies because then you’ll also become a crispy critter.”
Oh sure, like I have that kind of self control.
“The less serious answer is that you can use the sinking electric boat to kill the shark, making the water safe for you. Bang the side of the boat with the most batteries until the shark attacks. It will bite the batteries and get burnt to a fiery crisp while you watch and laugh.”
EXACTLY. Have none of you seen the documentary Jaws II?!?
The Autopian is on the exact same page as me this week. After work I am on my way to pick up an old bass boat that will be converted into an electric boat. I NEED the trailer under the boat, so gotta buy the boat too, and may as well have some fun with it!
The Autopian is on the exact same page as me this week. After work I am on my way to pick up an old bass boat that will be converted into an electric boat. I NEED the trailer under the boat, so gotta buy the boat too, and may as well have some fun with it!
So when are those Torch illustrations making their way onto some merch?
So when are those Torch illustrations making their way onto some merch?
Man, we really jumped the shark with this one.
First note, you are *technically* accurate that electrocution would end in certain death, as that’s the definition of electrocution. Any dance with electrons that leaves you alive is just an electrical shock.
I know, I’m fun at parties (I teach high voltage safety as part of my job, cause we’re making all the transit buses EV).
I’m waiting on the opinion of a commenter who’s job is shark safety, since you’re clearly biased
Not my job, but I *have* dove with 9 different species of sharks, on over a dozen occasions, both in aquariums and open water, during the day and at night.
Most sharks don’t usually feed during the day, they prefer dusk and dawn. Also, the vast majority of shark species don’t attack humans.
You got me, out here shilling for [LOCAL POWER COMPANY]
Man, we really jumped the shark with this one.
First note, you are *technically* accurate that electrocution would end in certain death, as that’s the definition of electrocution. Any dance with electrons that leaves you alive is just an electrical shock.
I know, I’m fun at parties (I teach high voltage safety as part of my job, cause we’re making all the transit buses EV).
I’m waiting on the opinion of a commenter who’s job is shark safety, since you’re clearly biased
Not my job, but I *have* dove with 9 different species of sharks, on over a dozen occasions, both in aquariums and open water, during the day and at night.
Most sharks don’t usually feed during the day, they prefer dusk and dawn. Also, the vast majority of shark species don’t attack humans.
You got me, out here shilling for [LOCAL POWER COMPANY]
Better question: How long until Trump “jumps the shark” and falls out of the zeitgeist? I’m so sick of even hearing that dipshit’s name. Him and Elon both. Just go the hell away, the pair of you.
Well, we have a cool science discussion going on here. I sure hope someone brings up politics and ruins eve-SHAAAAAADDDDDDUUUUUUPPPPPPP!
Are you serious?
Absolutely
Everyone wants to watch a chimpanzee with a flamethrower….