Do you have fond memories of seeing the first brand new Dodge Challenger on a dealer lot in 1970? My guess is probably not. For a large percentage of our readers, this event would have happened before they could drive or were even born, so the nostalgia Baby Boomers felt at the launch of reboots like the new Challenger wasn’t really experienced by younger generations.
That’s not to say that members of younger-but-not-necessarily-young folks like me don’t enjoy the design of this muscle car reboot, but for a variety of reasons it’s difficult for me to fully embrace busting out my checkbook for a car that’s supposed to remind me of a time when I wasn’t even driving (if I could actually find where I put the check book).
When Hertz gave me an early Challenger as a rental back around 2009, I eagerly grabbed the keys to this unexpected upgrade. Surprisingly, I hadn’t made it more than a few blocks in the thing before I realized the fatal flaw: It was just too big. Too long and too wide, made more clumsy by the fact that you couldn’t see out of it. As a rental it had the least powerful drivetrain, but additional horsepower wouldn’t have made it more enjoyable to drive. The chassis wasn’t bad; it featured many Mercedes-Benz derived or influenced components from that DaimlerChrysler era.
I just didn’t find it particularly great around turns; Maybe it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison, but when you’d rather hoon the shit out of your mom’s base E39 BMW wagon than some Mopar sports machine it must say something. I don’t think I’m alone.
Stellantis has a new 2024 EV muscle car on the near horizon, and it does look to still be a rather sizable car. To be fair, it probably should be. There are buyers for such cars, and to build a Challenger or Charger at ¾ scale might make a more manageable car to drive, but it would look somewhat ridiculous. No, a smaller coupe from Stellantis needs to be a totally a different car, and I think I might have the approach for this sporting Mopar.
As with other GenXers, I grew up with cars introduced in the late malaise era in the eighties, which were typically horrible in virtually every conceivable way except for one: space efficiency (it helped that safety requirements were much more lax). Chrysler themselves had one of the best examples of this with their K platform, first launched as the Dodge Aries and Plymouth Reliant in 1981. As I’ve pointed out before, this boxy and much-ridiculed sedan was smaller than certain current MINI models but could in fact seat six people in a pinch. Chrysler took the K-Car ingredients and made up a smorgasbord of models from limousines to minivans, and even included a sports/GT car in the mix. The 1984 Dodge Daytona was an attempt to turn the front wheel drive, four-cylinder K platform into a pony car.
Taking on Mustangs, Camaros, and powerhouses from Asia via a front wheel drive Dodge Aries chassis seems like a task akin to making a Michelin rated meal with McDonalds ingredients, but Chrysler actually did an admirable job. With its 142 horsepower turbo four, it could reach sixty in 8.2 seconds (I know, but that was good for the time). Motor Trend called it the best handling production car they’d ever tested, while hard-to-impress Car and Driver raved in their May 1984 issue that it was “a delight to drive hard… The turbo lag is imperceptible from 3000 to 5000 rpm… quite the canyon car.”
Besides benchmarking pony cars, the design seems to have incorporated much from the concurrent Japanese competitors like the second generation Supra and the Mitsubishi Starion. The Chrysler brand even offered a twin version that played these aspects up called the Laser, here described by Darth Vader:
I actually was around at the time of the Daytona’s launch, and while I didn’t really have a burning desire to own one then, the years have given me a newfound respect for it. Refinement and build quality was always a bit lacking in these, but you couldn’t argue with the performance numbers, obtained while sipping fuel at a lower rate than the GM and Ford offerings (EPA rated 22 city and 35 highway for the turbo model).
The styling in particular was rather fetching for the time; Daytonas appeared in trash movies like The Wraith with a pre-tiger-blood Charlie Sheen and even the horrendous Cannonball Run II where Frank Sinatra made a cameo while driving a red Daytona (remember that he was tight with Lee Iacocca). There was also a Daytona that appeared with magnetic police light on the roof in the television show Hunter.
The Daytona was not a big car when new, and keeping that size now will make it tiny by modern standards, which is exactly what we want; that will reduce our frontal area, which means better efficiency, which means we can use a smaller battery to go the same range as a larger car. Here’s a side view of what I’ve got in mind:
I’ve kept the basic shape but lowered the nose, which is something I am pretty sure the original Daytona couldn’t do thanks to the height of the K-Car mechanicals in front.
Later Daytonas received pop up headlights or slim composite units, but I found that those lost a bit of the personality of the original; the revival will have LED light signatures that simulate sealed beams surrounding projectors. You can see that the “shovel” nose flows into the side panels and wraps up the flanks of the car so that it appears to be surrounding the nose and upper body. This means that the lower shell is a bit like a taco, which is intentional since it calls to mind the “Taco Bell” approach of Chrysler’s K-Car eighties where, like the Mexican fast food joint, they had to make a full menu from just a few ingredients.
The hexagonal door window openings are retained, as well as the rear greenhouse that always looked a bit like it was taken from a Porsche 928. I couldn’t resist going full retro with the option of fan-style alloys:
That “wraparound” approach is visible in back as well, where the upper body is surrounded by these lower flanks that appear to cover the full width taillights on the sides and leave only a small sliver for the side marker lights.
I was about to add the typical joke rear seat to this thing when it occurred to me that that would just use up valuable battery space and, no living being could ever fit back there anyway. Still, I never want to make a strictly-two-seater car and kill all sales potential, so I looked to a solution from overseas made with Chrysler’s own Simca in the seventies. The Matra Bagheera (and later Murena) were mid engined coupes that sat three adults across, sort of like a pickup or big American car but with the difference that the seats were sculpted and the driver’s chair was distinctly separate.
Our Daytona will look to all the world like a two seater with a wide armrest until you fold it up to form the center seat. The flat floor and lack of needed gearshift which an EV allows makes footroom not an issue. There’s no point to a rear seat if it can hold zero people.
To clear the feet of a possible center passenger, we’ll need to keep the dash controls elevated on a “floating plane” console. This mock console also includes a pistol grip-style shifter since I just don’t like the idea of tiny little flippers or push buttons for gear selectors in a “sporty” car, particularly a nostalgia-based one.
The buying power of Boomers is starting to wane already, and later generations will soon have to decide if they want the hand-me-down nostalgia of older people. Sure, most GenXers like myself always thought that muscle cars looked cool, but once we experienced GTIs and Civic Sis most of us knew that those big, heavy sedans weren’t where it’s at, regardless of how fast they were off the line or how good they sounded. Like Chrysler in the early eighties, the pendulum will likely shift.
When a retired Lee Iacocca appeared on the Charlie Rose show in 2011 during Chrysler’s umpteenth crisis, he was asked if he could turn the company around again. His response was “yes, by building small cars,” specifically small cars that people want. Lee is gone from this earthly realm now, but I think he’s still right today.
Why can’t Stellantis make a small sporting EV to challenge the world? As Darth Vader said: “the competition was good…we had to be better”.
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To echo others, very strong Isuzu Impulse feel here. Which was a good looking vehicle at the time. But I love the idea of a small, EV coupe.
The overall shape gives me Scirocco vibes, but the rest of the design is definitely not. It’s a good looking car though, and I could definitely see it rolling down the street.
I’m getting Isuzu Piazza/Alpine 310 vibes.
And having ridden in both a brand-new 3rd Gen Plymouth Barracuda as well as the back seat of a Chrysler Laser (with the checkerboard velour) – bring on the 3-wide front seats and low instrument panels!
I like it as an updated look back, but the blacked out C-pillar makes it look too much like other similarly shaped cars of the time. Maybe show us what it looks like with body color C-pillars and the little spoiler of the original to capture more of the flavor of the time.
the redesign gave me some Starion vibes. That being said, The Wraith deserves more love. Im hoping my local retro Drive in plays it next year.
I dig this!
I had one of an 88 Daytona and would be game for an EV update. I image I wouldn’t have to double clutch it into fifth and this wouldn’t leave me stranded an hour and a half from home with a broken timing belt.
Of course it wouldn’t leave you stranded that way.
Stellantis will find a new and interesting way to strand you.
Add a giant shark fin satellite antenna to the back of the roof and we’re looking at Captain Scarlet’s Spectrum Patrol Car. Always wanted one of those.
Well done, Bishop: even in the tiny thumbnail on my phone I could tell it was a translated Daytona. Now, be honest: did you draw it just to use ‘K-POP’ up there— or was that just a later, happy thought?
Gangnam Style, yo!
No; just like Chrysler never ran out of ways to use the same K platform, there’s plenty of “K” references still left for top shots.
I’ve kept the basic shape but lowered the nose, which is something I am pretty sure the original Daytona couldn’t do thanks to the height of the K-Car mechanicals in front.
However, isn’t it the case that extremely lowered noses might not pass muster these days due to pedestrian safety regulations?
I do like the design, would have loved to see it with the old wheels shown in the “Pure Adrenaline” ad. I still think those wheels look great to this day.
In other random comments I definitely dig the concept of the third seat. The rear hatch needs louvers for the full retro treatment!
You need to lean more into the ‘retro’ on the body. I’m saying this from a design and functional standpoint. The lowest C/D of all of them is the 1986 model year with the full aero package. It was (understated) at 0.32 official (it’s actually about 0.31 or below, and can be further improved.) The rear wraparound spoiler (the only 2 years of it) is also aerodynamically effective. The later spoilers are not. The 1985-1986 wrap-around is. It needs the spoiler. That also includes the huge chin spoiler in front.
Secondly, it needs to actually follow the original design briefs. Which means if it isn’t RWD and AWD, right in the bin. The chassis was always designed from day one to be FWD/RWD/AWD with no unibody modifications.
Getting very strong “Isuzu Impulse” vibes. Not that that is a bad thing.
Yah!
I actually saw one in the wild a couple weeks back: “Handling by Lotus” badge & all! Made my day. I need to translate the Katakana someone put above the Lotus sticker…
As I’m already off-topic, I have a vague memory that they suffered from dash fires—can anyone confirm (or correct me) ?
Not sure about the dash fires I do remember liking their unique fighter aircraft instrument pods, the whole thing adjusted up & down with the steering wheel
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bgBlXQ3N0jY/Un5cyXVoGsI/AAAAAAAAZhA/j1asQoteC5U/s1600/1.jpg
So 80s: they put the HVAC controls up there so they could put an equalizer in the center stack. I love this nostalgia
Yes, this was my 1st thought as well!
@Adrian’s rendering is a very close modern take on an 1986 Isuzu Impulse
https://barnfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/092916-Barn-Finds-1986-Isuzu-Impulse-3.jpg
I drove one for a bit in HS as one of the many inexpensive cars my parents had bought for the kids. Front engine, rear wheel drive layout, with a smooth 5 speed + slightly pop up headlights… covers at least. Fun car.
Bishop I have to disagree. First in Europe a car needs sport turning to be sold in America it needs straight power for the long highways. Now the 70s malaise were based on cars built later with better science. But calling them poor because later cars were better is apples to Ferraris. Now I like your design because it combines sleeker European with huge American design. I always preferred sporty over muscle cars. But I doubt your design would have sold back then or now. Because it isn’t retro for old folks and it is too old for young buyers.
For my first new car, I bought a 1984 Dodge Daytona Turbo with the shower drain wheels, checkered red velour seats, and giant orange-outlined “turbo” script on the doors. It was glorious rubbish. I like this one much better but my judgement has not really improved much.
As for the “best handling” anything, that is a laugh. It understeered like a pig, flexed like a pool noodle, and would break your wrists with full throttle torque-steer.
I was surprised by that comment as well, though back in the day car rags were surprisingly complimentary to their advertisers. I mean, maybe better handling than a Chevy Citation but compared to a Scirocco or Prelude?
Notice how specific the praise is tailored: “The turbo lag is imperceptible from 3000 to 5000 rpm”. Well that is because it hits like a shovel to the back of your head at 2950!
I also bought a new ’84, mine was blue. I echo everything you said about that misbegotten pile of regret. I’ve never forgiven the magazines of the time for praising it.
The Scirocco especially the 16v was a standout little fwd powered fun handling littlencar in the mid to late 80s. 2200 lbs (that’s 1000 kgs), 140 hp from a 1.8 4 cyl. with a decent 5 speed and disc brakes all around. Mechanically basically a GTI with a sleeker wedge shapped body.
Oh bbs rims and supportive Recaro seats too!
I miss the ’80s thing of large door decals. Like “SS” on everyone’s favorite fake but still cool musclecar.
The wheels you cite are some of my all-time favs from Chrysler. They appeared across the lineup on “sporty” versions of things, and I still fondly remember them.
Can confirm. Back in the late 80’s Chrysler or Dodge (can’t remember which) set up an autocross-style test course of cones in a parking lot to entice potential buyers to buy these cars. I took one for a spin. It was… underwhelming. The lower seating position compared to a conventional K-car makes them feel bigger and heavier. And with poorer visibility. Steering was sluggish and heavy. Aggressive cornering brought out the wet-noodle body flex and suspension behavior that could best be described as un-coordinated. And the torque steer. My God, the torque steer.
I’d driven a number of “regular” K-cars, and they were objectively better in a slow-car-fast sort of way. For the most part they stuck with the K.I.S.S. approach — Keep It Simple, Stupid. The Daytona/Laser attempt at tarting-up the K-car as a performance car was sort of a bridge too far.
On the other hand, they were comfortable enough and reasonable in a straight line as long as you kept the torque steer in check.
But if you stepped into a Chevy Beretta and gave it the beans, it was a whole different experience. Maybe not a true hard-edged sporting experience, but still sporty and spirited. And probably the best-damped torque steer of anything on the market at the time. It didn’t take much to outshine the ageing K-car platform.
Come to think of it, the demo I went to may have been about 6 months or so before the debut of the Beretta and Corsica… the Beretta in particular for that market segment. Chrysler may have seen the handwriting on the wall and was trying to drum up some sales before Chevy’s new platform arrived.
That front end needs to be baked a little longer. Give it a Hybrid and a manual and we can talk.
Love the design, it looks Isuzu Piazza Turbo-ish which is a car I yearned for!
I’m feeling less Daytona and more Isuzu Impulse or Renault Fuego on this one.
Not that I’m hating it, at all.
Love it. And you could do a Rampage variant with a bed instead of the hatch.
Both would need a T-top option.
I dunno about that front end. It’s just not doing it for me.
But that instrument panel! Yowza! As a BIG fan of the Subaru XT, Bishop, shut up and take my money!!
Right? I loved that it went up&down with the steering wheel, too. Weird that I miss that car this much
this looks excellent but I’m sad the A-pillar width would never fly these days. it’s a big part of what makes this look so good
Thought the same about the back end. So strikingly airy and open, which will sadly be impossible until we get better materials technology (esp if the Bishop’s joke rear seats are put in back in there by the Rooks in marketing).
I too was around for the original, and a friend’s mom even had one. They offered a more futuristic take on the pony car, though frankly Ford’s Probe would win at that.
IIRC the Daytona even solidered on into the ’90s in this form for a short while after the Laser become the DSM Plymouth from this morning.
I liked the popups, but agree that the the slit headlights were a miss, just like with the LeBaron’s by that time.
As a former Chrysler Laser XE owner, I wholeheartedly endorse this. Make mine tobacco-brown, please, like my Laser was.
I’m a sucker for any car with a flip-and-cup center seat/cupholder combo like my old ’96 Taurus.
In the late 80s through early 90s I was fortunate enough to be driving a widebody Conquest TSi so I was always a bit snobbish about the Dodge Daytona but this is nice, I would drive one of these.
Yes, in researching this I had forgotten that they sold the Starion as a captive import at the same time. Kind of odd since they seemed to be going for the same market, and as much as I’m starting to warm to the old Daytona’s looks today I know which car I’d take back then.
They were almost identical cosmetically, especially with the popups, and you had to look at the B pillar to tell them apart from a distance. Mechanically they were night and day though between FWD and RWD. I don’t know who copied who but there was an awful lot of design language sharing going on.
If the goal is having a smaller battery to get a desired range, this car needs to be less Daytona and more MP4 Turbo Interceptor. The latter had a Cd value of 0.20 if I’m not mistaken, and could also get over 30 mpg highway, which given the time period and maximum horsepower output, was impressive.
Wow that’s a deep cut!
440 horsepower to do 195 mph would suggests it is very slippery.
Wikipedia says .26 but don’t ever trust what you read there. Also, when you mention mid-engined K car powered cars I’m always thinking of the great-handling-but-unfortunate-looking Consulier.
Not K-powered, but I still think the Olds Aerotech is ripe for an EV comeback.
A friend of mine bought a plastic model of one, put it together, and scanned it into a 3D model. We had ideas of making a kit car off of it at one point. The longtail variant is quite something.
“unfortunate” generally implies bad luck vs. malicious intent.
The MP4 concept actually has much worse aero and a net higher C/D than the ’86 C/S full aero treatment, but the ’86 has more drag at highway because it has aero that actually functions at rational speeds.
I got the names mixed up. The MP4-12C was a supercar that came much later. The correct name for the car I was thinking of was M4S Turbo Interceptor. I see a Cd of 0.23 commonly quoted.
Also, thankfully, the MP4-12C was never driven by Charlie Sheen so it was never at risk.