Good morning! Welcome to another Shitbox Showdown. Today we’re heading into steel country to look at some American iron in need of a little love. But first we need to settle the small matter of yesterday’s dented delights:
I mean, yeah, if you absolutely have to get there for cheap, and you don’t care how, a stickshift Toyota with a zillion miles on it is the surest way to go. It won’t be pretty, or much fun, but it’ll make it.
Today’s choices, on the other hand, are going nowhere fast. I know a lot of you groaned audibly when you saw the top photos, but hear me out. Both are projects in need of some work, but neither one is too far gone to save, and one has almost all the hard work done for you. Still not convinced? All right, how about this: they both run. And that’s a start – no pun intended. Let’s check them out.
1965 Buick Special – $3,000
Engine/drivetrain: 225 cubic inch overhead valve V6, two-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Moon, PA
Odometer reading: 55,000 miles
Runs/drives? Runs great, but obviously not roadworthy
First, let’s clarify what this actually is. The seller has it listed as a “Buick Super,” but the Super didn’t exist in ’65, and besides, it was a full-size; this is clearly a mid-sized A-body. It could be a Skylark, but the V6 and the plain interior upholstery makes me think it’s probably the lower-tier Special model. Of course, at this point, it could be any trim level you want; it’s just a matter of which trim parts you order from the catalog.
This Buick has only 55,000 miles on it, and is a three-owner car. It’s partly disassembled, but the seller says it’s all there. Most of it looks pretty clean, too. The seller (or someone) has done an awful lot of bodywork already, but there is still some patching to be done in the trunk and rear quarters. But I’m surprised by how much rust you don’t see in these photos.
This car has already had a lot of mechanical work done, and the seller says the little V6 runs great. It’s an automatic, probably a two-speed; it’s not the most powerful or efficient thing around, but it’s simple and reliable. You don’t buy a four-door Buick for speed anyway. The mechanical work, along with the bodywork that has already been done, is encouraging; someone thinks this car is worth saving.
There is still quite a lot of work to do, of course – I’m guessing the missing door panels are shot, and need to be replaced. But GM A-bodies are very popular among reproduction and performance parts manufacturers. You could easily bolt on power disc brakes, suspension upgrades, air conditioning, and just about anything else. And of course, the V6 runs, but that doesn’t obligate you to leave it in there.
1973 Dodge Dart Swinger – $2,500
Engine/drivetrain: 318 cubic inch overhead valve V8, three-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Gibsonia, PA
Odometer reading: 27,000 miles
Runs/drives? Runs, but looks like it has been parked for a while
This car, coincidentally, is also an A-body, but in Chrysler’s case, the A-body was the compact model. The Dodge Dart and its sister model the Plymouth Valiant achieved near-mythical status as unkillable beaters, largely due to the strength of their drivetrains. These cars were powered by either the legendary Slant Six or Chrysler’s small LA V8, typically with a Torqueflite automatic. Pair that drivetrain with a simple, tough unibody with leaf springs in the rear and torsion bars in the front, and you get a car that’s reliable because there just isn’t much to go wrong.
Nowadays, the remaining Darts are becoming collector’s items, especially a two-door V8 like this. It looks more like Grandma’s church car than a muscle car, but the shared DNA is there, somewhere under all that dusty green paint. I don’t know why, but it almost seems mandatory that these cars be painted in this particular shade of green. I’ve seen them in other colors, of course, but the a priori Dart in my head is green, inside and out, like this one.
This Dart’s green vinyl needs a good cleaning; it has a bit of a mildew problem. I mean, it’s nowhere near as bad as a certain Buick Park Avenue I could mention, but it does need some help. It’s remarkably intact, however, which makes me wonder if it actually has only 27,000 miles on it. Stranger things have happened than an old Dodge being stuck in a garage outside of Pittsburgh and just left there.
The seller does say it has “some rust,” but I think that has been true of every ’73 Dart since Jimmy Carter was elected. The place to look for rust in these is in the C-pillars; if there is any bubbling under the vinyl top, there’s trouble hiding underneath. But rocker panels and rear quarters? No big deal.
If there’s one thing that is beginning to annoy me about the classic car hobby, it’s that everything has to be considered an investment. Too many people buy old cars to sell for a profit, not to drive and enjoy. The cars that are for sale are either too expensive, or junk; it’s getting hard to find scruffy projects with potential like these. There’s no need to do a full concours restoration on ordinary cars; just fix them up, maybe give them a good coat of paint, and enjoy them. These are both cheap enough and solid enough to be “worth” putting some work into, not for monetary gain, but just for the joy of tinkering with an old car and driving it around afterwards. What do you think – half-disassembled Buick, or garage-art Dodge?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
Update: the ad for the Dodge has been taken down already.
Okay, which one of you bought it?? 🙂
Dodge for me… 318 V8/3 speed auto is much preferable to the old odd-fire Buick 3.8L V6/2 speed auto.
Plus the Dodge is missing fewer parts
since I am not a body many, nor very good at upholstery, the Pre-Cat v8 two door thing is more valuable to me here. the interior while boring and green at least looks to be in good knick, and the portions of the body that are showing appear to be serviceable for now. I feel like the trunk and the wheel wells should be part of the photos, especially considering Pennsylvania heritage and seller admission of rust.
That’s an easy choice: I’m sure there would be plenty to tune up and repair, but that Dart looks like it’s just one good detailing way from a Sunday cruise. Also, my god, a two-speed with a V6, I don’t see how that thing is getting up the hills of western PA.
Assuming something terrible hasn’t happened to its engine, the Dart looks like it could be put back on the road fairly easily. The Pennsylvania humidity certainly hasn’t done it any favors though. I’m with you Mark, I’m all for the drive and enjoy it factor.
The choice is obvious…
Oh dang, I missed this one yesterday. Talk about hitting close to home! My third car was an ’89 Camry wagon “Deluxe” (4 cylinder, cloth interior) and it was replaced with a naturally-aspirated ’89 Volvo 740 Wagon (745 in Volvo-speak).
The Camry got sidelined (permanently as it turned out) because it had a wiring harness issue that would make the car die if given more than a feather of throttle while in gear. Also had a failing exhaust flex pipe and a few other issues. Good car, but would have cost more to fix it than it was worth. But I let it sit at home while I contemplated learning how to fix it myself or selling it on and shopping for a potential replacement.
Meanwhile I found the Volvo listed on local (early) Craigslist. Advertised as a mechanic’s special (before I learned that means they’re probably throwing in the towel on a personal vehicle or one they bought hoping to flip). It was allegedly his family vehicle since new, and it got passed down to his daughter who used it for college, and put more effort into putting dumb political stickers on the back than maintaining the poor thing, to the point that when I bought it – unbeknownst to me or her dad, who worked at a reputable shop nearby – it was about 40,000 miles past due for its second timing belt. Also had a bad O2 sensor. Sadly those contributed to it not even lasting long enough to get a new title for it.
Going from the Toyota to the Volvo meant having my first vehicle with sealed-beam headlamps (yikes), but thankfully didn’t have the motorized shoulder belts up front as the Camry (and it’s predecessor) had been equipped with. My first RWD car (so much room to work in that engine bay!), a smidge more power, cool interior door release pulls inside the handle, blink-light error code reading on the Bosch LH Jetronic fuel injection system (still a cool feature, even if you had to have a Haynes, Chilton, and/or factory manual to decode them; I had all three). The rear-facing third-row seat was cool (and arguably I should have kept it to sell before getting rid of it), and the idea of removing the tail lights and having the bulbs come with was a pleasant innovation (not necessarily Volvo-specific, just the first vehicle I’d encountered with that) that I still think may be a better implementation than having to reach one’s hand into the mysterious and usually sharp depths of a lamp assembly to blindly replace a bulb.
Both got sold to the local pick and pull yard, and I used the money from the sales to get a 1990 Volvo 765 Turbo Wagon which I kept for almost 9 years. I’m on my second XC90, so I guess the Volvo bug bit and stayed.
Not sure how this got here, it was meant for the Volvo/Camry one from yesterday. Weird.
The Dart was my first car! 318 V8, white exterior w/blue interior, “Sport bench” front seat. If I had that cash sitting around I’d be buying it right now.
In the previous century I sold cars. Whenever we would get a white/blue combo it would go straight in the showroom and would sell in a matter of days. I still miss blue interiors.
I’m a sucker for a beat-up Buick (thanks for the link, Mark!), but Mopar always comes first.
Another great one today, Mark!
I really like the looks of these early to mid ‘60’s Buicks, but have to give the nod to the Dart. It is a perfect example of a neat old car that you buff out, replace a bunch of soft parts and enjoy as-is.
This shouldn’t be a contest – one’s a rolling (allegedly) 4-door with two less cylinders than it needs. The other one is a 2-door with a 318 that looks like it needs a hose and a can of paste wax (and likely some heavier stuff for the interior). It’ll buff out.
The Dart’s going to win. It’s complete, fully assembled and cute as a button in that early-70s way. Plus, it’s almost bulletproof.
But I’m a native of Flint, and both of my parents confirm that my first word was “Buick.” We’ll take the Special and happily spend the next decade scouring swap meets and CL ads for correct door cards and fender spears.
The Buick has way too much nope. Start with its’ being someone else’s unfinished project, add in that by “GM A-bodies” being popular with repro parts companies you mean “2-door Chevelles and maybe Pontiac Tempest/LeMans/GTO” – assume that any trim specific to a 4-door Buick is fully unobtainium.
Top it off with the 2-speed auto which could be, in increasing order of non-durability and unfixability, a Chevy Powerglide (this is the one you want, rugged with plentiful parts), the final evolution of Buick’s own Dynaflow (horribly inefficient but not too bad to make work) or a “slim jim” Roto-Hydramatic (yikes!).
Also, you mention how much rust there isn’t but I can see green grass through the taillight holes where there should be trunk floor. Has it just been cut out and new metal not welded in?
The Buick has the Super Turbine 300, which replaced the Roto-Hydramatic one year earlier. (pushes glasses up nose)
In the words of Clutch: “Dodge Swinger 1973, top down, chassis free,
Buzz Aldrin, Armstrong, or maybe just me.
Don’t worry, it’s coming.
Don’t worry, it’s coming.
Jesus on the dashboard.”
I know it’s not a convertible, but I want it.
Mopar or no car.
A good cleaning and refreshing of the Dart will have it at cruise nights in no time. That Buick needs a very dedicated person that isn’t me.
The Dart hits the bullseye.
Dart is the winner. I love the green interior. I’m not saying I would want green upholstery in a new car, but it would be nice if new car interiors came in colors other than black or grey.
That’s why I love my ‘94 Ford pickup’s blue interior.
Garage Dodge, please!
The Buick doesn’t do anything for me, but I do like an A-body Mopar. It’s more common to see an original Dart with the Leaning Tower of Power, since most of the small-block cars have been crashed already, but the 318 means that this car can generate huge smiles with minimal effort. A small 4-bbl (e.g. Holley 390) works pretty well, IIRC, and will actually give better mileage than the stock 2-bbl. Running dual exhaust from the original manifolds will help as well. The Dart doesn’t weigh much so you don’t need huge amounts of power.
And that interior… *chef’s kiss*
Maybe the odo has turned over and maybe it hasn’t, but at this point it genuinely does not matter. 🙂
nope, the odo might actually be more problematic if it was only 24K miles. either way you will likely need to replace a lot of seals and brake lines and shocks and so on. one with 124 might have a lot of that stuff swapped out over the years and what is there might have a bit more life than say the originals would.
I should have been more clear. In this particular case, the odometer does not matter for two reasons:
1) This is not a rare car where originality and provenance are a huge deal.
2) According to what I can see of the inspection sticker on the windshield, it looks like the car has been sitting since 1989. Whether it has 27K or 127K makes no difference when it hasn’t moved for over 30 years. 🙂 IOW time is the big factor here, not mileage: even if the owner did all the maintenance, etc. before parking it for the last time, all of the work that you mentioned would still need to be done (or redone).
And now there appears to be a third reason:
3) The ad has been taken down by the seller.
I’ll optimistically assume an Autopian bought the car as a result of today’s Showdown. 🙂
I owned 2 Darts over the years. Both were 69’s. The Swinger was a black on black with the 318. However the GT was a green on green convertible with a white top.That GT was a great car until I was broadsided by an uninsured driver.
It’s not a ’74, but I suppose it will get me to El Segundo nonetheless.
Also this:
“the a priori Dart in my head is green, inside and out, like this one”
is inexplicably, but absolutely, true.
The Dart looks almost entirely complete, and for that it has my vote. I’d rather have a kinda scruffy but all original car than one that has to be reassembled. Buff out the paint on the Dart, give the interior a deep clean, replace the consumables and give it a tune up, and you’ve got a nice weekend cruiser.
I was thinking the same thing about the Dart. It looks like it could be a fun car with basic maintenance and a good cleaning. I wouldn’t even consider it a project car. It is the clear winner of these two.
I was always a fan of the Dart Swinger. For the cost and short money it may be a weekend cruiser.
Though you know what they say about buying other people’s projects….
I wanted to choose the Buick, I really did. But I recalled how horrendous the Special was to drive when Mr. Regular reviewed it. That two speed auto is not going to be fun at anything resembling highway travel. The Dart, honestly, is less attractive, but it’s going to be less work to get to DD status and it’s got a couple extra cylinders over the Buick.
Plus, I have a soft spot for 70’s green cars. They’re just something so period correct about them.
The whole concept of 2spd autos weirds me out.
Same. I mean, it’s better than one, but I’d prefer at least 3.
It goes back to when people stopped wanting to manually pick a gear. This is the start of GM’s foray into cars for Girls. But the powerglide 2 speed actually works astoundingly well for straightline drag racing, it is hard to kill, though a stack one behind a Buick 6 might be less stout and the BOP bolt pattern would be less desirable.
I have a soft spot for old GM vehicles, I took the Buick. bench seats for the win!!
Dart + RV 440 swap + 2 doors + well duh…burnouts
Don’t forget swapping out the front grill to an earlier year
Big-block swaps into A-bodies are unnecessarily difficult. You’re better off building a 340 or 360; at least you’ll have a little bit of room for the exhaust that way.