Good morning! On today’s Shitbox Showdown, we’re looking at two of Wolfsburg’s forgotten cars of yesteryear for sale here in my hometown. This week is all single marques; yesterday it was Buick’s turn. Let’s see how the votes went:
An absolute blowout for the little Reatta. A lot of you expressed a fondness for the Buick Roadmaster in general, but thought – and I agree – that this particular example was just too sketchy to deal with.
Volkswagens these days are so often derided as unreliable and overly complex that it’s hard to remember that up through the 1980s, VW made sturdy, mechanically simple, reliable cars. No, really. Basically every Volkswagen up until the mid-1970s was a variation on the Beetle theme, and everything after that, at least up to 1990 or so, was pretty much a Rabbit or a Dasher when you got right down to it. So for today at least, let’s forget about the Passat W8s and the Jetta 1.8ts and all the rest of the typical modern Volkswagen classified detritus and get back to a time when Volkswagen actually made people’s cars. These two are uncommonly-seen variations on their themes, which makes them interesting potential projects. Wait – projects? Yeah, neither one of them runs right now. Sorry about that. Let’s check them out.
1973 Volkswagen 412 – $1,350
Engine/drivetrain: 1.7 liter overhead valve flat 4, three-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Damascus, OR
Odometer reading: 123,000 miles
Runs/drives? Nope, one of those “ran when parked” deals
If this car looks familiar to you, it might be because Stef Schrader, friend of the Autopian and stuffed-animal enthusiast, has a similar car that has led a colorful life since she got it. It was, and I believe still is, a Lemons race car. Stef’s car is actually a 411, the predecessor to this one, but it’s the same basic idea: VW’s “pancake” style air-cooled flat-four engine, a four-door fastback body, and a whole lot of questions from onlookers, even VW enthusiasts, who’ve probably never seen one.
The 412’s 1.7 liter engine is fuel-injected, fancy stuff for the early ’70s. But like early American fuel injection systems from Chevy and Chrysler, a lot of these were ripped out and replaced with carburetors by mechanics who couldn’t be bothered to learn something new. This one looks intact, but it isn’t functional. The seller only says it “won’t start” and that it “ran when parked.”
Unfortunately, this 412 also features an automatic transmission. The Volkswagen Beetle was America’s ideal “second car,” but the main family-car role was filled by a Ford or a Chevy or a Plymouth. Volkswagen wanted that position in the family garage as well, and that meant not only four doors, but an automatic. There were manual Type 4s, and I imagine a conversion isn’t the hardest thing in the world, but a full automatic in an air-cooled Volkswagen might be worth keeping intact just for the novelty value.
This car is a perfect example of what I love about the car culture here in Portland. It’s a nearly-forgotten old car, not really special in any way except that it’s probably one of the last of its kind, and just a little offbeat and oddball. You don’t see cars like this on every street corner around here, but keep your eyes peeled and you’ll see some rare gems you thought had long since vanished from the earth.
[Editor’s Note: I always liked these strange Type 4s a lot. They’re a fascinating development of the Beetle concept, and I know these were a flop, but that makes me like them more. Plus, Brooks Stevens did the facelift on the 412s! The guy who designed the Jeep Wagoneer! – JT]
1976 Volkswagen Scirocco – $2,750
Engine/drivetrain: 1.6 liter overhead cam inline 4, four-speed manual, FWD
Location: Clackamas, OR
Odometer reading: 142,000 miles
Runs/drives? Not since 1989
Now here is a car that is near and dear to my heart. My first car was a 1979 Scirocco, and I loved it. It’s my favorite example of Giorgietto Giugiaro’s “folded paper” era of design, one of many cars he designed for Volkswagen and Audi at the time. It’s also my favorite type of car: a small, lightweight fastback coupe. Mechanically, the Scirocco was identical to the Rabbit, but it looks and feels like a completely different car. A little bit of style goes a long way.
In addition to the sharp kamm-tail styling and quad round headlights, the early Scirocco also has the best factory steering wheel of any car I’ve ever driven. It looks great, and feels fantastic. I liked it so much that I kept mine and installed it in the ’85 VW Golf that replaced my Scirocco. This one is in good shape, as are the black vinyl seats. Even more astonishing, the dashboard top appears un-cracked. The door cards are missing, but I think I see them in the piles of parts that are included.
In ’76 the Scirocco and Rabbit were still carbureted; Bosch fuel injection wouldn’t arrive until 1978. Unlike the 412, this Scirocco has a proper four-speed manual transmission. Automatic Sciroccos did exist, but they were fortunately rare. This car hasn’t been on the road since 1989, which by a strange coincidence is the year I got mine. The seller says the engine turns over by hand, so it could potentially be revived, but there are lots of two-liter Golfs and Jettas and New Beetles around that could become an engine donor for a far cooler car. You could get a fifth gear out of the deal that way, too.
First-generation Sciroccos were prone to rust, and this car is no exception. Weirdly, according to the ad, it was painted white by a previous owner as a way to protect and preserve it. I’m not sure how that was supposed to work. It was originally a really nice shade of blue, and it could and should be returned to that color. The rust looks repairable; in fact, annoyingly, it has quite a bit less rust than my Scirocco did, thirty-four years ago:
Man, look how happy that dorky sixteen-year-old kid is. That is the power of the Scirocco: not speed, not luxury, not even handling. It’s a magical machine that spreads joy wherever it goes.
These cars are what I think of when someone says “Volkswagen,” not the complex, high-maintenance fussbudgets of twenty years later. I’m glad these cars are still around, and I hope someone puts both of them back on the road where they belong. If that someone is you, which one are you going to revive?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers, except the last one, which is credited to Joe Tucker)
412 for me. If I’m gonna do a project, I might as well pick the one that will end up being more interesting and more of a novelty. Plus the 412 is cheaper.
To me, that Scirocco is only worth scrap/part-out value. It’s way overpriced as-is.
Could someone explain why that Scirocco is worth much more than scrap value. Maybe I’m missing something. They were cool back in the day, and a clean one would be fun now. But, that thing is trashed.
OTOH, the 412 would be really simple to get going.
“Could someone explain why that Scirocco is worth much more than scrap value. “
It’s simple… the seller is delusional.
412, even though I REALLY wanted to pick the Scirocco! It’s just in too bad of shape
The more awkward, the better. Hands down, walkover victory for the 412. Everyone (understandably) loves Sciroccos so I want nothing to do with one.
Those are both super cool and make me sad cars don’t look like that anymore. The 412 is more interesting to me, but they’re both winners
The 412 looks like it has the potential to go on the road faster than the nightmare rebuilding job on the Scirocco, especially with the wiring harness half lying on the floor, door cards missing, front grill missing, missing engine hoses, with the topper being the shop rag jammed into the carb!
You always stick a rag in the intake when the air cleaner is off. Always. Unless you really feel like pulling the intake, and maybe the head, to figure out where that nut went that you dropped.
I love me some Scirocco, but not this example at that price. I’ll take the quirky Type 4 that is cheaper and should be easy to work on.
Given my name, how could I not choose the Roc?
If I hadn’t moved away from Oregon last year, I’d be hauling that 412 home right now. The 412 is such an oddball, but having been raised with German cars, including multiple air- and water-cooled VWs, it has charm and character that go a long ways to compensate for the quirks and difficulty finding parts.
I love me a Scirocco, but that one needs more than I care to invest in it, at least relative to the 412.
The 412 is in better condition than the sky rocko
That 412 is in far better shape and a far better value. That Scirocco might be worth considering at $1,000…maybe. You can argue market all you want, but in the end that thing needs so much you’d be better off paying up for a better example.
At that price the 412 is a no brainer, even if you had to take it into a VW mechanic and have the entire engine replaced, it would still be a bit of a bargain.
NEARLY THREE GRAND FOR THE DISMEMBERED REMAINS OF THAT SIROCCO? Bwahahahaaaaa. No
Hard choice, love them both equally as a VW man but the 412 is the more sound base to work from, I can work on the mechanics, but I’m rather green when it’s about bodywork and rust. And the 1700cc boxer coupled with an automatic could actually be quite a comfortable cruiser with all the relative torque. Even my 1200cc bug drives like a diesel in heavy traffic and I love it for that.
But the design of the Scirocco MK1 still wins to this day ! Though I’d probably go for the MK2 with a 1800cc engine. It’s slightly bigger for my frame and just as fun and I still love the styling on these ones.
There’s a MK2 Scirocco rotting away in someone’s front yard near me, and each day I pass it on my way to work, I think I need to stop by and see if they want to part with it. I already have too many projects to justify adding another, but you are dead on about the design being great and just as fun to drive.
Plus, Brooks Stevens did the facelift on the 412s! The guy who designed the Jeep Wagoneer! – JT
I mean, yeah, that is a pretty famous vehicle. But, come on! I think the 1948 Jeepster is a WAY better Brooks Stevens design!
I love the Scirocco and the 412 is cool. Sadly, I think the Scirocco is too far gone o make it worth the effort. That 412 should be a breeze to get running so I had to go with it.
I love the VW Type 4s, even more than the classic Beetle, Bus and Thing.
Finding one locally in that condition at that price would be a dream. I may need to move to the Pacific Northwest.
I wouldn’t think twice about buying it. How hard could it be to fix?
That’s the charm of a rust free air-cooled VW. Once it’s up and running, a weekend and a couple hundred bucks fixes almost anything that could go wrong.
The FI system would be the hardest part – everything else is simple. Unfortunately, that Bosch D-Jetronic FI can be a complete nightmare. There are aftermarket kits to update it to a more modern system, which would be a fun project.
is that a slice of pizza on the scirrocos floor?
If the pizza is part of the deal, then that slice accounts for a majority of the car’s value.
412 all day. That Scirocco looks like somebody rejected the philosophy of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” and applied the philosophy of “if it ain’t broke, take it apart, lose several pieces, then it will be!”
At least the 412 appears to all be there.
“And the wind cried Scirocco.”
In spite of its scruffiness, or maybe because of it, I’m all over this little pearl. I see an interior that’s honest and beckoning, and many future low-speed rips thru the countryside in rev & row bliss.
And like my old mustang: I only need a driver’s seat.
Obscure culture reference #1:
[St. George:]
I’m taking you in on a 502
You figure it out
[Dragon:]
What’s the charge?
[St. George:]
Devouring maidens out of season
[Dragon:]
Out of season!
You’ll never pin that rap on me
Do you hear me, cop!
[St. George:]
Yeah, I hear you
I got you on a 412 too
[Dragon:]
A 412?!
What’s a 412?!
[St. George:]ll
Over-acting. Let’s go
412, please!
I’m not concerned about the automatic. At least it’s not an auto-stick, which IIRC had a weird little vacuum-operated clutch that was as durable as damp cardboard.
Getting it running probably wouldn’t be a big deal – there isn’t a whole lot that can go wrong – and for $1350, what the heck. (I had a ’73 Squareback with FI.) A little interior work, bend the larger pieces of sheet metal back into place, and you’ve got an interesting around-town car.
The Scirocco seems to be the type of thing where someone who wants it REALLY wants it. It’s probably not something that would interest a non-Scirocco fan as a project car.
My 411 has the automatic. It’s fine. Relatively drama-free. It’s not exciting, but it works.
These are both — in their ideal forms — outstanding. I remember the Type 4 being marketed as VW’s “luxury” offering in the US.
But I share Tucker’s enthusiasm for the Scirocco. My mother had a Rabbit of this vintage (in Rallye Red) and I loved it. I’ll take the front-driver, in the hopes that cash on the barrelhead would lower that price somewhat.
I love Sciroccos, but not that one. Yikes. Air-cooled cars usually revive easier due to not having corrosive water stored inside. Gimme the weirdo-cool 412.
Damn, that 412E is almost a Tatra in all it’s outdated clumsiness, But I’ll take it!
That Scirocco is just too far gone 🙁
And it’s the more expensive car too. If they were the same price I would probably be swayed to the Scirocco just because I love them, but more money for the worse car, not happening.