It feels like GM tradition to kill a car as soon as it gets good. The Pontiac Fiero was axed after it gained new suspension for 1988, the Pontiac GTO was offed a couples years after gaining six-liter V8 power. The Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid died just before plug-in hybrids truly went mainstream. Well, tradition is just peer pressure from dead people, and GM now seems determined to break the habit. It turns out that the Chevrolet Bolt EV isn’t actually dead, it’s just in the waiting room for the time being.
Welcome back to The Morning Dump, our daily series of bite-size news tidbits too short for full stories yet important enough that we need to discuss them. Today, the Chevrolet Bolt is coming back, Electrify America charging prices are going up, RVs are in the dumps, and Tesla might be headed to India. There’s so much coming and going in this one, it feels like an airport.
It’s Comeback Season For The Chevrolet Bolt
Earlier this year, it felt like the affordable Chevrolet Bolt EV — GM’s first high-volume fully electric car — was thoroughly dead. Chevrolet announced a production wind-down, discontinuing the Bolt after the 2023 model year and bringing an end to an unlikely late-life success story in the affordable EV market. But wait, the Chevrolet Bolt EV is re-entering the ring with a metal chair! [Editor’s Note: This is a wrestling reference. This took me a while. -DT]. Thanks to an official GM email to owners forwarded by reader Brett, we’ve learned that Chevrolet’s inexpensive, popular EV will return in some form. After all, the email couldn’t be any clearer — It opens with the phrase “Bolt is back.” Let’s take a look at what the body copy says.
Well, that’s certainly unexpected, and a welcome change from GM’s history of killing something just as it got good. Of equal importance, with the Equinox EV expected to sit around the $30,000 mark based on prior GM announcements, the next Bolt could be less expensive than that to avoid cannibalizing sales. As of right now, we have no idea what form the next Bolt will take, but we wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a small hatchback or crossover. In any case, we’ll just have to wait and see what GM has planned for its next-generation entry-level EV, but its existence at all feels like it could be a victory for consumers.
GM Reportedly Blames Slow Ultium Battery Roll-Out On Suppliers
Another day, another story about supplier mayhem. It feels par for the course in the topsy-turvy year of 2023, doesn’t it? This time, it’s automation for GM’s vaunted Ultium battery packs, as Reuters reports GM CEO Mary Barra claimed ramp-up delays during a recent investor call.
Barra said battery production at the Ultium joint venture plant in Lordstown, Ohio, has been hampered because “our automation equipment supplier is struggling with delivery issues.” The situation should be resolved by year-end, Barra said. GM in the meantime is building battery modules by hand on manual assembly lines, she said.
No wonder Hummer EV production is at a crawl. Imagine screwing together those massive packs by hand. In any case, the year-end resolution target set by GM is critical, for EV plans without battery packs is the new-school equivalent of wanting to build cars but not having any engines. GM has bet the farm on Ultium-powered vehicles of all sorts, from the reasonably-priced Chevrolet Equinox EV crossover to the ultra-lux Cadillac Celestiq plutocratmobile, so getting this right will be mission-critical.
The RVcession Is Here
It’s an expensive time to be alive, and that’s hitting some makers and sellers of pricey machines square in the wallets. Just like how EVs are loitering on dealership lots, Reuters reports that the RV industry is dealing with a post-pandemic slump.
Retail sales of recreational vehicles are on track to be the lowest since 2015, said Ferrando, CEO and president of Fort Lauderdale, Florida-based Blue Compass RV, which operates in 33 U.S. states. There’s “definitely a recession in RVs,” he said.
Recreational vehicle sales boomed during the first few years of the pandemic, as consumers essentially found themselves all dressed up with nowhere to go. Disruptions to normalcy like work-from-home and restaurant closures reduced general consumer spending, while international border restrictions and questions around how sickness spreads on airplanes turned off the taps for international wanderlust. Flush with cash and wanting a different view, consumers leapt into the RV pool, hitting the road to see America. It was a boom, and like all booms, it’s turned into a bust.
But trouble emerged soon after pandemic restrictions were eased and U.S. interest rates began to rise. The Federal Reserve has hiked borrowing costs 10 times since last March as part of an aggressive campaign to tame high inflation. The U.S. central bank’s benchmark overnight interest rate has climbed by 5 percentage points to the 5.00%-5.25% range, the highest level in about a decade-and-a-half.
The interest rate consumers pay on loans is well above even that, and RV loans recently have averaged around 10% versus 7% or so before the Fed’s monetary tightening kicked into high gear, Ferrando said. With 80% of his company’s customers financing their purchases, it was natural that rapid rate hikes would curb buyers’ appetites.
The explanation behind the slump makes sense. Rising costs of living and high interest rates have left consumers with little money and less affordable borrowing, and when times get tough, big-ticket items are the first to go. However, as it stands, Reuters is reporting sales of RVs, ATVs, and other playthings are still well above pre-pandemic levels, so perhaps this rapid downward plunge is more of a minor slump than a recession indicator.
Electrify America EV Charging Is About To Get More Expensive
Well, yes, if you can charge at home or at work. However, if you say, live in an old apartment, work from home, and can’t convince your superintendent to install charging hardware in your building, you’re at the mercy of public charging networks. Electrify America is one of this industry’s juggernauts, and InsideEVs reports that major pricing changes are coming that could make charging at EA stations noticeably more expensive. What changes are we talking about? Why, I’m glad you asked.
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The monthly fee to be a Pass+ subscriber is going up from $4.00 to $7.00. That translates to an additional $36 per year ($84 per year compared to the previous $48/year), Pass+ members will still get a 25% discount on the per-kWh or per-minute price, depending on what state they are charging in.
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Electrify America is transitioning from set pricing across the country to a station-specific pricing model that is subject to change. The Electrify America app will show the station-specific prices, the company is urging its members to always check the station for pricing when they arrive because it’s possible the price listed in the app may be incorrect.
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Electrify America will begin to charge idle fees at most of its locations nationwide. After a ten-minute grace period, the customer will be billed $0.40 per minute until they unplug the vehicle from the charger.
Although charging idle fees is a great stick to deter charger hogs, the rest of these changes seem unlikely to benefit consumers. Don’t get me wrong, $84 a year to save 25 percent on DC fast charging may still be worth it if you do a ton of road trips in your EV, but a 75 percent increase in membership fees is outrageous. It’s a similar deal with Tesla-style dynamic pricing — some stations will still be good deals, but some probably won’t. An expensive product can still have a market if it’s brilliant, seamless, and reliable to use, but this is Electrify America we’re talking about here.
Tesla Goes To India For Cheap EVs?
The electric transition is going to require a ton of manufacturing resources, and Tesla certainly set the standard for EV assembly plant scale. After plunking down plants from Texas to China, Reuters reports that Tesla is now looking to get in on an emerging economic powerhouse by building electric vehicles in India.
Tesla has expressed an interest in building a factory in India that would produce low-cost electric vehicles (EVs) for the local market and for export, the person said, adding that the company had indicated that it would be for the new vehicle.
The discussions represent a sharp reversal for the company after efforts last year to reduce import taxes on EVs shipped to India were scuppered by calls from government officials to commit to making cars locally.
More important than a possible Indian production plant is what might be built there. From the sound of it, this isn’t just shaping up to be a place to crank out more Model Y crossovers, but a facility for a new EV altogether.
The 2 million rupee ($24,000) EV Tesla representatives were said to have described in discussions about a potential Indian plant would be 25% cheaper than its current lowest priced offering, the Model 3 sedan which sells for the equivalent of just over $32,200 in China.
The concept of a $24,000 EV isn’t shocking. From dirt-cheap Chinese EVs to the reasonably-priced 2023 Chevrolet Bolt, it’s been proven possible to make an electric vehicle sold in the mid-20s to the masses. Since price is the largest driving factor in vehicle purchases, cheap EVs are necessary to get the world electrified. Thanks to inflation and wage compression, new vehicles are falling further and further out of reach of the average American, and an inexpensive high-volume option is what the market demands. However, with promised Tesla products often missing production timing targets (Cybertruck) or coming in above claimed prices (Model 3), I’ll believe this one when I see it.
Your Turn
With the news of an eventual Chevrolet Bolt return and chatter about an inexpensive Tesla, I’d love to know how far out you predict $25,000 new EVs to be in America? Are we talking 2030, 2027, or perhaps sometime sooner than you’d ever imagine? More importantly, if another manufacturer with a Supercharging agreement comes out with a cheap new EV, will Tesla’s rumored baby model even be worth it? I’d love to hear your thoughts.
(Photo credits: Chevrolet, Winnebago, Electrify America, Tesla)
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“No wonder Hummer EV production is at a crawl. Imagine screwing together those massive packs by hand”
Hand-crafted, artisan battery packs cannot be rushed.
I believe that is called a feature. Clearly not a liability 😀
Don’t get too excited about the Bolt just yet. We have yet to hear anything about it’s infotainment system, whether it will stick with CarPlay/AA (which everyone wants) or move to the new in-house Google platform (that nobody wants).
Oh well, even if it lacks CP/AA, at least we can stream music via Bluetooth like it’s 2010 or something.
Hey my first ever tip that’s gotten picked up!! Also, outed myself as a bolt owner….
Be proud! You’re amongst friends
Yay you’re famous 😀
Now that you’ve been outed, consider changing your name to Bolt Dennis. That sounds cool!
Bolts are cool. If I ever get back to owning two cars, Bolt is on the list for my daily
HOT TAKE no one is asking for:
Within 1 year, the Chevy Trax will be the best selling (non F150) vehicle in North America, and Chevy won’t be able to make them fast enough. Immediately following; the new Chevy Bolt becomes the best selling (non F150) vehicle in North America.
I would wager my $1000 to your $100 that neither of those things comes to pass by this time next year.
At the dealership I work at, we haven’t been able to keep one on the lot more than 3 days. One day we had a truck show up with 5 of them on it; one was sold before the truck even got there, another was sold before it came off of the truck, and the other 3 didn’t see the end of the week. These cars are going to be extremely popular. Maybe not best selling popular, but they’ll be up there
I should add, before the discussions come up about how it only being FWD is going to deter people, I’m located in west-central Pennsylvania. Not exactly a place known for mild winters historically
I don’t doubt they will sell, but there’s a difference between “popular” and “outsell the Ram and Silverado popular”
If they can make enough of them fast enough, which I doubt they can, I could see it as a best seller contender. The price is right and they look cool now! I started looking into them, but I’m a Midwesterner who was deterred by the lack of AWD. Too bad.
This. FWD doesn’t matter. People want to sit up higher, have easier ingress, and be cheap. This ticks every box.
I am certainly exaggerating, but it’s gonna be a top seller, I think.
The Trax is too small and cheap to be the top non-F150 car in North America. The average American buys a car that’s roughly in the middle of the range – the cheapest says you’re broke, the most expensive is out because you actually are broke.
So, the average American in a GM store is going to buy an Equinox like they already do.
(There’s also the ’49 Ford rule – Americans like cars that are roughly the same size as the ’49 Ford – but CUVs get away with being shorter.)
The cheapest new cars tend to be in the mid-$20k range. Which is almost exclusively the domain of the wealthiest 20% of Americans, which are “broke”. Everyone else lives paycheck to paycheck and 2/3 of the U.S. population doesn’t even have $500 in savings.
Prediction: At some point, this economy is going to completely collapse and new car sales are going to drop of a cliff as the dealer lots overfill with repos. Should this come to pass, I’m hoping I can snag a used Alfa Romeo 4C for cheap, with cash.
I think the Trax will certainly be popular, but Toyota sold nearly 400k RAV4s last year, the best-selling non-pickup; Honda is gaining share again with the new CR-V as well. Those (along with the Camry) were the top 3 non-truck sellers last year. Even ignoring that they’re more expensive vehicles, I don’t know that GM can eclipse those yet. Maybe depending how the different models shuffle around with the Trailblazer and ICE Equinox, although I think GM will just be happy to have you in the showroom looking at any of those options.
Steady inflation reminds us that there will never be a $25k EV in the foreseeable future, probably ever.
Unless buying used counts.
https://tinyurl.com/23ChevyBoltEV – Its $26.5k now though. Close enough.
My thoughts exactly. In 5 years there will be no such thing as a $25,000 car.
An electric motorcycle maybe. Gotta hurry up before inflation though.
The ’23 Bolt EV LT model was $26k new, wasn’t it? I think we’re just about there already. This is pre-tax incentives.
Buying an RV on credit at 10% interest, utter madness.
When you want to do van life but don’t want to live in a van down by the river…
I’m guessing the Bolt is back talk is all talk at this time. It will take GM years to create the next gen Bolt, unless they had something already in the works before canceling it.
Second, it will probably be some existing Ultium with a few changes and new badging. Heck! Maybe just a trim level like someone has said already in the comments.
Third, it will probably be $10K more than the current model unless GM decides to continue making negative net income on their EVs.
I’m thinking based on GM’s product history, they wanted to see what the brand equity was in the Bolt name before they announced the replacement.
Cancel the Bolt; see if it gets any love; if so, announce a successor, if not, announce a different named small EV
Let this be a lesson for everyone: Together we can shitpost and threaten a multi billion cooperation into bending the knee. As someone who has suggested bringing pitchforks to the Ren Center more then once. I will accept my thanks in one new Chevy Bolt please.
Also there won’t be a sub 25k Ev outside of a hover board. Money is meaningless, and everything must be over valued to keep the party going. Everyone must have a 84 month car for Church and State. God save the banking industry. Rule, Bank of Americannia!
Yeah, I’ll stay debt free thankyou very much. Screw church and state. In fact, burning both to the ground would benefit everyone, and throw the multinational corporations in the bonfire with them.
Try staying debt free in a small town! Me and boys don’t take fiscal responsibility standing down.
Touche.
Great news about the Bolt! But if anyone believes that they will be able to actually purchase a $30k Equinox EV, I guarantee you that it will be delivered directly to your house by both Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
There will be a trim level near $30K, but good luck finding one. Better bring $40K to the table if you want to play the EV game.
You’ll be able to find them if you’re willing to travel. There’s always a few dealerships in midwestern states that dont try to sell them, are uneducated, and deal 98% in trucks.
the problem with eh Bolt and even the Volt was the price relative to the size. the Bolt only really became popular once it hit sub 30k pricing. the Volt which is the superior choice in my opinion was a 40K car sized about the same as Chevy Cruze. these day 40K is not a seemingly expensive number, but it was then and to me still is for what you get. At any rate, I would want the bolt to come back as a Malibu sized sedan with optional hatch back design. it should offer a Hybrid plug in version for 25K and the Full EV as close to that as possible, though likely it would be around 30K considering supply and demand. Hell they could even make a Ute version and revive the El Camino while they were at it. the Maverick certainly needs competition.
$40k is still every bit as expensive as it was, if not moreso, when wages haven’t increased since then, while prices of housing/food/utilities/ect have skyrocketed.
People use debt to pretend they can “afford” things, and everything comes fully loaded and feature-laden to encourage this behavior. It’s not a sustainable business model in the long term, a lesson that would have been learned the hard way many times before over the last century except that the institutions affected keep getting bailed out while the consumers lose everything… Rinse and repeat.
Timing the cycle is critical, but assuming we don’t have full-on currency collapse, the chance could soon come to acquire high-end vehicles for pennies on the dollar.
Real wages are much higher than they were then (and indeed are higher now than at any point in at least 40 years excepting a pandemic spike where low-wage earners were disproportionately laid off)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
These wage gains are strongest at the lower end, *not* the top 1%. It’s not 2015 anymore, when your points were more true.
The Consumer Price Index doesn’t account for the real cost increases in the costs of housing, food, and other goods and services thanks to hedonic adjustments skewing the numbers presented, which ties into the “real” wage statistics. Priced in terms of hours of work at minimum or median wage to afford something, things are arguably worse than they’ve been since those numbers were recorded.
The massive increase in homelessness is not coincidental, nor mostly due to mental illness and drugs. Most of those people work, and are simply priced out of shelter. The upper-middle class and above have mostly been insulated from this, while lower-middle class and working class debt burdens have greatly increased to pretend they can “afford” things they really can’t, like cars, homes, or college.
The hardest thing in the world seems to be convincing Chicken Littles that the sky is not in fact falling.
US household debt burdens are way down, at or near multi-decade lows and lower than many “more advanced” countries.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HDTGPDUSQ163N
https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-debt.htm
This is the richest country in the history of the world, median and average wages are both rising faster than inflation, unemployment is near record lows, inflation is way down from last year, billions of dollars in new investments are coming into manufacturing and clean energy, stock markets have nearly reversed their 2022 losses, and yet some people either pretend not to see it, or simply can’t.
Of course not everything is perfect, but it’s hard to imagine a time or place an average American of 2023 would rather live. It’s mystifying to me why vibes are so bad.
This is a country of contradictions. The “richest country in the history of the world” has nothing real backing its currency, more total nominal debt than any other nation on Earth, and is generally in a state of decline(especially regarding overall happiness of the population as well as the state of its infrastructure).
How the FED and BLS statistics have been defined over the decades has not been consistent. Measures such as “disposable income”, “unemployment rate”, and “personal disposable income” do not mean the same things that they did 40 years ago, and the way in which they’ve been redefined paints a much rosier picture than would be the case if the definitions were kept consistent.
Even using the FED’s skewed/manipulated data, the Dallas Fed published an article whose conclusion is in contradiction to yours:
https://www.dallasfed.org/research/economics/2022/1004
Consider something as basic as housing. In 1968, the median individual income was about $4,000/year, or about $2.00/hr, and minimum wage was $1.60/hr. Average home price was about $24,700. So roughly 12,350 hours of work bought a home at median wage and 15,438 hours of work bought a home at minimum wage. Today, in 2023, median hourly wage is about $46,000 a year, which works out to about $21/hr, while federal minimum wage is still $7.25/hour. The median home sold for $436,800, which requires 20,800 hours of work at median wage, and 60,250 hours of work at minimum wage.
New cars. In 1968, the average new car sold for $2,822. In 2023, average new car sells for $48,008. So 1,411 hours of work at median wage and 1,764 hours at minimum wage used to buy a new car in 1968, now requiring 2,286 hours at median wage and 6,622 hours at minimum wage today.
The picture gets a lot worse when considering the cost of healthcare, or a college education.
Even when you adjust housing costs per square foot, the cost is markedly higher, then versus now. This applies to the other items mentioned above to such an extent, that the minimum wage in 1968, really paid more than the median wage today.
The hedonic adjustments, while a fair point can be made about qualitative improvements to goods/services, obfuscate the picture and gaslight the public about the true nature of things. The “cheap” options don’t exist anymore.
Those at the very bottom of the socio-econ0mic hierarchy are getting royally screwed. I know people working 3 jobs just to live paycheck to paycheck, when a single income household making minimum wage used to be able to make it. There are homeless people working full time jobs and priced out of rent, when it used to be the case that a full time minimum wage job could afford a roof over your head. They aren’t doing this for the fun of it, nor am I a chicken little for pointing this out. Things are not what they seem on paper. The real world is growing ever more disparate from what is on paper by the day, in fact. It will be interesting to see what statistical wizardry is used to hide this trend in the future.
I think if you genuinely believe this, we are never going to see eye to eye on any of the details.
I think if your primary argument about the data presented is that the government is faking it, we are never going to see eye to eye.
If you believe a home or especially a car from 1968 is functionally equivalent to one from 2023, we are never going to see eye to eye.
I genuinely hope for your own sake you can start to see some more of the good in the world.
I believe my own eyes and ears, instead of government spreadsheets. I say this as someone who studied math and statistics extensively in college while obtaining an engineering degree. The two aren’t able to be reconciled, and that is where the root of the distrust originates.
Of course the numbers were are getting are “fake”. Not in the literal sense, but in the sense that the methodology used to obtain them is inconsistent. This is simply historical fact at this point. The numbers from decades ago are not measured the same way as they are today. Most people will look at the numbers from past and present and compare them, when there is no direct valid basis for comparison.
I don’t at all believe a car or home from 1968 is functionally equivalent to a new one. That’s beside the point. The cheapest options available take far more hours of work to afford today than they did in the past.
I appreciate your reply and the fact that there was no venom. 🙂
The lower tier did rise up a bit over the last few years, just in time for inflation to hit and wipe out the gains. The middle to upper tiers, new car shoppers if you will, saw little gains unfortunately.
You highlight some important points in your comments, but I do think things are starting to turn around for the middle and lower classes. This article does a much better job of making that point than I can: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/07/economics-inequality-piketty-milanovic/674702/
Will they listen to the customers that still want Android Auto and Carplay in their Bolt or other EV? That seems like the bigger PR nightmare for them.
I would not purchase a vehicle without android auto at this point. Not a chance.
My bet is that they are bringing back the Bolt in name only, and it won’t be the practical bargain that the original was. They will “broaden the appeal” which means make it bigger, heavier, less car like, and those current owners will find it less appealing.
Seems to be the new GM tradition (look at the Blazer, Hummer). Is it any better than making the same car but giving it a new name every facelift?
No but as you say it seems to be the way GM has been going of late. “People used to love our Xxxx”. “But this new vehicle will be nothing like that” “But people know and love the name”.
Isn’t that what the Bolt EUV was for?
Yes, but my guess the replacement will be even larger and more CUV like than the EUV and there won’t be anything less than that.
Jeez. They could at least bundle it with Hulu or something.
So…a gas station. When you wake up the one near you will be $.25 higher than the one a few blocks down, but by afternoon that will have reversed. At least we won’t have cash vs. credit pricing to deal with.
Well it is essentially cash vs credit pricing they way they do it with members getting a discount. In this case it is now going to be based on what electricity costs them in a given area. Currently it is the same price across the nation while their cost for the electricity varies significantly. https://www.statista.com/statistics/630090/states-with-the-average-electricity-price-for-the-residential-sector-in-the-us/ The question becomes are they going to do surge pricing and what about those areas with time of day pricing will it be lower price if you stop by the EA station during the night rate hours?
How do manufacturers not see the value proposition at $25k for an EV?
A struggling household spends $400 on a car payment and $300 on gas each month. Make a stripped down EV we can buy for under $500/mo with no gas bill. Folks would flock in droves!
Instead we’re forced to choose $700/mo climate killing business as usual, or $800-1000+ on an over-spec’d fancy new EV. People WANT to save the planet, we just can’t afford the payment.
Give me a golf cart with A/C and airbags and 300 mile range for $20k and I’ll buy 2!
I’m glad to see someone at GM may be paying attention.
For the next 5 years, I’d take the same thing with 100-200 mile range.
Yeah you probably are a struggling household if you spend $400 on car payment and $300 on gas every month. Jeez.
I’m more like $1000, once, which over the last two years comes out to $40 a month for my car, and a little more for fuel.
I think I pay more for insurance than any other part of owning a car.
Your golf cart comment is funny too. Right now you can buy a golf cart with AC and like 40 mile range and no airbags for $20k.
A man after my own heart. The most I ever paid for a car was $4,000. Always with cash. The Triumph GT6 I restored was purchased for $1,200. So was the Mercedes 300 SDL I used to use as a daily. I had another 300 SDL at a later date in nicer shape, purchased for $4k, and the $1,200 one became a parts car.
New cars are a ripoff.
For $20k or less, you could buy an inexpensive classic car in decent shape, and convert it into a 100+ mile range EV. Depending on choice of donor chassis and attention to aerodynamics, possibly a 200+ mile range EV. And if the car is light enough, it could end up much faster than any new car you could get for that price point(albeit that selection pool is very small).
I too live in that cash only crowd. When I was younger, I always ran two $500-$1000 cars. I fixed one while I drove the other. Then often they would switch places. It sucked, but it worked and I had very little cost overhead, even with the cost of repairs. My currently daily was $1350, but had hit a deer. Cost me about another grand to get it repaired and registered. So for $2400 and some entertainment of rebuilding it, I got a car I have now put about 40K on in 3 years. My commute is about 106 miles per day, about 20 miles of which is up a steep canyon. And that car does awesome. I’m often fascinated by the number of people who firmly believe there is no such thing as a decent vehicle below $10K or $15K.
Nice! Yeah, it’s so ridiculous…my cheapest car was $100 and it ran/drove…there’s so many cheap cars if you know where to look and the biggest thing is not being picky…some may just need 1 thing to get running again or even if the engine is bad put one in, it’s like a new car! (Yes, there’s more to it than that but that’s the main point) I could buy 100 “junky” cars for the price of a new one & wish I had my own junkyard=heaven
I’m no stranger to jalopies, especially for my teenage drivers (currently have a 221k mile Camry and a 209k mile Tacoma) but someone has to buy cars new, so the Frugal Wrenchers can eventually buy them for $1k in a decade or two.
My point was, if a manufacturer can make an EV cheap enough to get inside the payment+gas bubble, they cross a significant tipping point where new car buyers would make the leap to EV just because it’s the cheaper option. Suddenly they’re not competing with ICE at all.
This is a point I’ve been hammering away about since I’ve been at this site.
If you can daily drive the car, get a reasonable range(at least 200 miles highway, 100 miles city), and the monthly payment is less than the amount of money saved by not using gasoline, it presents a very compelling case even to a working class person who can otherwise only afford to purchase a $1,500 clunker.
Such a car is in theory possible, but it seems no major car manufacturer is interested in building it. By necessity, it will be a very efficient platform with a low mass and low drag coefficient, such that it would be an industry benchmark should it ever be released.
That I know of the BYD Seagull comes the closest w/200 mile range, 5 door hatchback and supposed to be $11,900 (yen equilivant).
Of course to get one here would require BYD to pay 28% USA protectionist tax… which given the health of GM & Ford (+ to a lessor extent Stallantis since they are not a US company) + their lobbyists I can understand
Still a reliable, safe (supposed to meet euro safety requirements), practical 5 door hatch at 11900×1.28 = $15K would still be an attractive affordable option
I’m aware of this car. That 200 mile range is on the Chinese driving cycle. On US highways, it would likely be closer to a 120 mile range at 70 mph. The Seagull is not the most slippery of cars, but if it had half the CdA value, it could approach that 200 mile range on U.S. roads.
“People WANT to save the planet, we just can’t afford the payment.” This is massively poetic, it’s like a fucking album title.
“But wait, the Chevrolet Bolt EV is re-entering the ring with a metal chair! ”
“BAH GAWD!!!! THAT’S STONE COLD’S MUSIC!!!!!”
(I also thought about a reference to Kane entering “through hellfire and brimstone,” but it didn’t flow as well.)
This line made me smile & it cracked me up that someone had to explain it to David, though knowing he’s not super knowledgeable on US cultural references (God can WWF/WWE be considered ‘culture’?), I can understand
Call me cynical, but my guess is the marketing folks at Chevy have been scrambling to undo the negative press from killing the Bolt, so ‘the Bolt is backI’ letters will be followed by a press release announcing the ‘Bolt Edition’ trim level will soon be available across their small SUV range. A couple of badges and maybe some silly stitching on the seats would be my guess.
Oh, crap, I didn’t even think of that: the Equinox Bolt. Marginally quicker acceleration and sporty red (blue?) trim. I’m undecided on the Bolt itself, it has a very “Techno EV” appearance, but it’s the right size I’d consider for a BEV.
The charging thing is interesting. I’ve been wondering when companies are going to start the mark-ups. Gasoline supply & pricing is volatile enough you expect uncertainty at the pumps, but electricity seems fairly constant. Pad membership fees to start the gouging! Where else are you gonna go? There’s Electrify America & Tesla…
Charge monthly subscriptions for seat heaters 🙂
They will call it the Usain, sorry couldn’t resist
Maybe if it had a Corvette E-Ray electric drive system in it.
Now if they would just listen to the very loyal Volt owners about bringing back the Volt or at least a PHEV in their line-up. They had a huge lead in this segment and abandoned it. I bought only GM for about 25 years with 1 exception. Now only 2 of our 4 daily drivers are GM and our last 2 purchases were not GM vehicles because they didn’t offer what we needed. One was because I didn’t want all the compromises in a truck during the “chip shortage” because they were disabling a lot of features (like heated seats, heated steering wheels, back-up sensors, and AFM.) RAM didn’t have any chip shortage issues with their truck. The other was because they didn’t offer a PHEV to replace my Volt with.
100% this. For my next car I want a PHEV, but the limited choice is more than a little disappointing. I guess it’s probably going to be a Prius.
Wait. You were upset that GM disabled AFM? The single greatest functional liability in their engines?
They just disabled the function, but my understanding was that all the potential issues still exist in the engine. I might have understood wrong, but it seemed like none of the benefit with all of the risk.
The Trax and Trailblazer need PHEV variants, even if only the Buick versions offer them
FYI, Mary Barra was on CNBC this morning and directly addressed the GM topics in the first few “pushes” in today’s Dump. Not like anyone is gonna make a deal out of it, but when talking about China she got her tongue twisted and said “rice price points” before quickly correcting herself. I found it funny. Anyway, here’s the link…
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topstocks/gm-ceo-mary-barra-on-q2-earnings-results-uaw-contract-talks-ev-competition/vi-AA1ekIiO
No EV will ever carry a $25,000 MSRP in the USA again outside of maybe some weird compliance cars.
Sure, government generosity might get out the door prices there on some models.
But low featured, short-range cars are not in demand, and I don’t see that changing. I also don’t foresee material costs becoming low enough for a “real” car to be that cheap. Heck, it’s tough to find an ICE car for $25K.
We need a low-featured, small-battery, long range car. Aptera is one example showing us the way to do that. The OEMs have the production volume to mass produce a 4-wheeled version that passes all regulations and get the cost closer to Mitsubishi Mirage levels. The margins are narrow thin, it would cannibalize the sale of more expensive products, and thus the will isn’t there to do such a thing. But that is really the type of car needed to get the working class to transition to EVs. The monthly payment has to be low enough that it will more than cancel out the money otherwise spent on gas with a decent running used ICE.
The problem is that working-class drivers also like vehicles with nice features. Why would you assume someone on a budget would choose a lousy new EV over a mid-range used EV or an ICE vehicle? Buying a car you don’t like simply because it is brand new does not strike me as a rational decision.
It used to make sense before cars lasted as long as they do now.
When a 3 year old car was 50% of the way through its life rather than 10-20%, buying new was more reasonable.
The rise in longevity for better equipped used cars has led to the slow demise of the cheap new car, which is not a big loss unless you’re an automotive blog commenter.
I’ve never understood the “we need affordable new cars” thing. No one thinks twice about buying a used house, since houses last longer than most people care to live in them. If cars are lasting 20 years and people want a different car every 5-7 years, why should buying a used car be any different?
I mean I’m a weirdo who only buys new cars because I’m paranoid about how well (or not) previous owners have treated them.
But yeah, your average buyer at $20-25K is going to be happier in something used than the new options available there.
Used cars often don’t have a manufacturer warranty, nor does the uyer know for a fact that it has been properly maintained. A new car is generally seen as a symbol of reliability, the buyer knows whether it has been maintained because they are responsible for assuring that, and the car is accompanied by some form of useful compensation should that turn out not to be the case(such as a loaner car while the new car is repaired at the shop under warranty). If you need your car to reliably get you to work everyday, this is important, and increasing numbers of people are being priced out of having that sort of peace of mind. Modern EVs threaten to take this peace of mind away altogether as they age and enter the used car market, with what will be unrepairable battery packs and mechanical systems locked out of reparability via software.
The idea that battery packs will be unrepairable strikes me as farfetched. There isn’t a large infrastructure for repairing used battery packs now since batteries have had low failure rates. This will change in the future when old EVs are common and there is a need for battery service infrastructure. If mechanical systems are locked out of repairability via software, consumer demand (or legislation, if necessary) will change this.
EVs require minimal maintenance, so ensuring a vehicle was properly maintained will be much less of a big deal in the future. As long as the battery is in good condition and the vehicle isn’t trashed, there is very little else to worry about when buying a used EV.
I guess if you really want a warranty a new car makes sense, although I have argued that warranties are overrated. They don’t make a car more reliable. A warranty presumably adds a non-trivial cost to the price of the vehicle. Unless you are one of the unlucky few who has an expensive catastrophic failure, you are losing money by buying a vehicle with a warranty. Again, though, I understand that people really value warranties, so I’ll concede those go in the “pro” column for cheap new vehicles.
I’m well aware of the minimal maintenance required by EVs(I built two of them and worked on many more) as well as a nascent 3rd party battery repair industry. The issue still will remain that minor components fail, even on reliable cars, and local mechanics and DIY types are essentially locked out of repairing the vehicle themselves. Taking a battery to be refurbished on a used EV is still going to be a 4-figue or 5-figure ordeal of expense. A used EV is a liability at this point.
It doesn’t have to be this way. The products were deliberately designed to be this way. Legislation might fix this in the future, a decade or two after the fact. But that’s not the case today, and may never be.
I’d say it’s less about the warranty and more about the peace of mind of no maintenance/repairs. Shouldn’t need to worry about tires or brakes for some time, hopefully.
This is especially true if you’re a buyer on a budget and/or with less than ideal credit, banks will look much more favorably on a new(er) car for approval and better interest rates than say, a 3 year old car with 60k miles on it.
“But wait, the Chevrolet Bolt EV is re-entering the ring with a metal chair! [Editor’s Note: This is a wrestling reference. This took me a while. -DT]. “
Me too, especially considering the uncomfortable front seat it took me a year or so to get used to.
I’m not sure $25,000 is a reasonable target for new EVs. Realistically, $25,000 is considered cheap for an ICE vehicle. Since EVs are more expensive to build, a $25,000 EV will come with a lot of sacrifices (mediocre range, lousy interiors, dodgy build quality, etc.). I still think a budget-minded consumer is better off buying a used EV. I expect someone will sell a new $25,000 EV within the next five years, though, but I doubt it will be the resounding success everyone assumes it would be.
As for the cheap Tesla, its appeal will decrease considerably if the Supercharger network is opened to other vehicles. I don’t think that is specific to a cheap Tesla, though. The Supercharger network is Tesla’s best feature. All Teslas will be less appealing if that feature is available from other manufacturers.
Re the Fiero reference, why NOT bring the Bolt back with a decent legacy GM name? After all, I just read that the beloved-to-SW-Gossin Stealth name is returning for the next-gen Dodge Durango-ish SUV.
Chevy Sunfire would be a lot more zippy for this guy.
It burns with the intensity of the sun may not be a good idea considering the history of the Bolt and it’s propensity to burst into flames.
Good point. How about Sunbird, for a cheery, vaguely JDM sounding at this point name?
Holy nested tables Batman!!! Did I trip over a time dilation anomaly and fall back into MySpace???
I usually copy & paste to notepad to wipe all that stuff out
Like the black hole in Interstellar, this is a message from the future.
In 8 years sounds about right for legacy carmakers. The battery factories need to ramp. The lithium processing needs to ramp. The legacy carmakers need to figure out software. A lot of stuff is building out right now. Then it needs to be debugged.
Chinese cars and other imports will be the thing to watch. We could have $25k EV’s in two years were the tariff dropped. But is that juice worth the squeeze?
Disagree. No new car will sell for $25K in 8 years.
This.
How far out are $25k EVs in America? Well depending on where you live, they’re already here. Between state and utility rebates, I can theoretically get a Leaf or a Bolt new for less than $25k already.
And consider me stoked that the Bolt is sticking around. Yes, it’s derpy, but its also not a fundamentally bad car and has saved tens of thousands of Americans who are in the market for an affordable new EV from ever having to deal with their local Nissan dealership.
1. I see the comments have a bug that is showing real names instead of usernames
2. I see that I was not taking myself very seriously when creating my account here.
Same issue for #1. Your user name is showing up for me, though. Something about an elk?
Lol for some reason I decided to put “Sensual Bugling Elk” as my real name upon registration.
Be happy you have a real name. My parents couldn’t find me one
My username is my real name, and it has been for over 40 years. You can imagine how surprised I was when that damn TV show came up with the anonymous driver character and all of his random cousins.
(my username is showing up with my comments as I view them, hopefully that is the case for everyone else?).
if that was your fake name what was your username? lol
Mine seems to be showing my username though
People put their real information on website info forms? Do they LIKE having their information sold to every scammer on the dark web?
I had #1 happen to me over the weekend – I changed it back, and it forced the capitalization of the first letter for some reason. Not sure if any of the team covered the bug in another update post elsewhere what happened.