Welcome back to Shitbox Showdown, where we double-fist cheap cars while listening to loud music until you tell us to put one down and take it easy. Since yesterday’s match-up was a little scary, we’re headed to New York in search of genuinely reliable used cars. Cars with reputations like anvils, except animated coyotes are less likely to be hit on the head by them. But first, let’s take a look at how yesterday’s battle between a rusty Swede and a high-mileage German went.
Surprisingly close considering that the Saab needed a subframe, but the 525iT takes the win. I get it, it’s easier to start with a relatively clean car rather than a rusty one, although who knows what lurks beneath that duct taped hatch? Anyway, today’s theme is reliability, and I’ve found two cars that seem similar on the surface. They both have four doors, they both have five seats, they’re both even made by the same company. However, virtually everything about them is different, for reasons that are likely obvious.
1996 Toyota Camry LE V6 – $1,400
Engine/drivetrain: Three-liter V6, four-speed automatic gearbox, front-wheel-drive.
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Odometer reading: 176,898 miles
Runs/drives? Indeed
Let’s kick if off with an archetype, the XV10 Toyota Camry. It might just be Toyota’s most important car of all time, including the 2000GT. Controversial, I know, but this was such a radical step forward not just for Toyota but for the American midsize sedan market. Not only was the first Camry specifically designed for America, it offered proper luxury car refinement and incredible reliability. To put things in perspective, this car and the second-generation Ford Taurus dropped in the same year and the Ford just couldn’t touch the Toyota for refinement.
This particular example sports the absurdly smooth 1MZ-FE three-liter quad-cam V6, good for 188 horsepower and 203 lb.-ft. of torque. Paired with an equally-smooth four-speed automatic gearbox, it should get you where you need to go without so much as waking a sleeping passenger.
On the outside, this Camry does have its flaws. There’s a dent in the hood and the right tail lamp is being held together with tape, battle scars from the streets of Brooklyn. Nevertheless, it looks fairly straight otherwise, and kudos to the original owner for deciding to go with an actual color.
Moving to the interior, everything seems remarkably well-kept. The outer bolster on the driver’s seat, often a wear point on any used car, looks just as good as the day it left the factory. Doesn’t it feel like you could just sink right into that plush upholstery? What’s more, the dash and door cards appear to be in great shape, and the carpet in the rear footwells looks remarkably fresh. Sure, this Camry may have some cosmetic flaws, but it’s a Camry – the textbook used car champ. What could possibly beat it?
2001 Lexus GS430 – $2,600
Engine/drivetrain: 4.3-liter V8, five-speed automatic gearbox, rear-wheel-drive.
Location: Ridgewood, New York
Odometer reading: 163,040 miles
Runs/drives? You bet.
How about a fancier Toyota? Welcome to the Lexus GS430, a car that was much quicker than its visage suggested. Back when this thing was new, no Fox body Mustang owner sitting at a red light would expect this typically champagne-colored boat to click off a sub-six-second zero-to-sixty run. The GS430 takes most of the positive traits of a Camry, adds a sports sedan twist, and turns the whole package up to 11 – including the price.
Under the hood sits the 3UZ-FE 4.3-liter quad-cam V8 with variable valve timing. This gem of an engine cranks out an even 300 horsepower and 325 lb.-ft. of torque, which means that this 21-year-old machine is new car fast. Sure, it takes a three MPG combined hit over the Camry and runs on premium fuel, but that’s a small price to pay for this level of performance. Plus, the owner of this GS430 has fitted an AFE cold air intake which I doubt improves performance but should certainly let you hear that V8’s induction noise.
On the outside, this GS430 could use a few little tweaks. I’m not a huge fan of the IS300 wheels that are on it right now, but it’s entirely possible that this is a winter setup. In addition, the color-keyed window visors are likely practical, but they’re not everyone’s visual cup of tea. Oh, and maybe ditch the blue bulbs in the inner lamps for white ones. Still, the car itself looks to be in good shape and I’m really digging the subtle lip spoilers.
Moving to the interior, this GS is showing a few signs of age. The leather on the driver’s seat and console lid shows a few cracks, and I’m not feeling confident about the condition of the steering wheel under that cover. Still, the rest of the upholstery looks to be in great shape and the current owner’s even thrown in a modern touchscreen head unit for phone connectivity. Throw in the typical luxury features of the era like heated seats and automatic climate control, and this thing should be a stupendous daily driver.
So there we are, Toyota versus fancy Toyota. One’s a whole lot cheaper and has an interior that’s in beautiful shape, but one’s a whole lot faster and more luxurious. As ever, choose wisely.
(Photo credits: Craigslist sellers)
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The Camry’s listed at a good price for a good car in fair-to-good condition, while the Lexus is the sort of troubled beater RWD powerhouse I want in my life.
I voted Camry because I’m a damn spendthrift Yankee, I suppose.
“Paired with an equally-smooth four-speed automatic gearbox, it should get you where you need to go without so much as waking a sleeping passenger driver.”
There, fixed that for ya!
For me personally, I think I’d rather roll the dice on the Lexus. However, if I’m recommending for someone who needs cheap and reliable transportation it’s the Camry all the way.
Ugh. That was an unsuccessful attempt to have “passenger” crossed out with an overstrike and replacing it with “driver”. I hope the new commenting system lets us have a little more fun with formatting and doing things like posting pictures.
I’m going against the crowd and picking the Camry. When you’re buying at the bottom of the food chain like this, you’re looking for reliable transportation and cheap maintenance and repair costs. The Toyota wins that argument on a couple fronts: sure a Lexus is a Toyota is reliable, but this Lexus has the look of falling into to young and careless hands, when buying bling parts is more important than buying oil changes (see the cold air intake) and stupid stuff like brake pads. Additionally, you don’t put on a cold air intake to drive it like you are a grandma who borrowed from her Pastor – you do it to because you’re gonna drive it like you stole it, and intend to dump it as soon as it needs some expensive repair.
Next and obviously, assuming that you are going to have to have some repairs done, Lexus parts are going to be more expensive than Toyota parts.
Plus green > white
That Lexus isn’t worth close to twice as much as the Toyota.
Right Wheel Drive and a V8? I’ll take the Lexus please.
Camry. I hate the mods on the GS and I’m too lazy and cheap to do anything about them. Also, I don’t know about prices where you’re at, but premium gas is an extra $0.80 per gallon, sometimes more, where I’m at. No thanks.
XLEJim votes Camry.
New York reload….
That Lexus has black plastidip rims with the lips rubbing off, blue front ‘running lights,’ blacked out taillights, and a “CoLD aIr iNtAKe.”
There is no chance in hell it hasn’t been abused and had maintenance ignored. I will admit I do not know Lexus’s (Lexi?) as well as I do BMWs, but given the price I’m more than willing to go out on a limb and say something seriously pricey needs to be done for it to be a driver and something more ground-up for it to be a good one.
And personally, I don’t see a car I want to dump money into up there.
I’m a massive fan of used Lexuses. It’s cheap as shit, the important go, stop, turn round corners stuff will work well past the point where the sub frame disintegrates from road salt (I have empirical data on this: I once bought a cheap is200 from Glasgow. Guess what happened a few years later?).
Why not drive a luxurious shitbox? Come on in, the water’s lovely.
“There’s a dent in the hood and the right tail lamp is being held together with tape, battle scars from the streets of Brooklyn . . . ”
Looks like the Camry got roughed up by the Fords of Flatbush.
Easy win for the Lexus
Only $2600 for a V8 GS? Do you want me to buy another car, because this is how you end up with more cars.
I just swapped out a 1MZ with a broken connecting rod due to the engine sludge issues common to that engine in a 1996 Avalon. It’s the most difficult to work on Toyota I’ve ever put a wrench on, and I don’t like several parts of the design of that engine.
The UZ V8s on the other hand, are exquisite, and other than the starter location a breeze to work on (I have the 4.7L version in my 4Runner).
Throw in RWD, V8 sounds, and what I’m assuming is the Aisin A580 transmission, and I’m all about the Lexus.
Full Disclosure: I have an XV10 at home with 377k.
While I’d love a NICE GS with the V8, this one ain’t it. I’m not getting a good vibe.
But the XV10 Camry is one of the best cars ever built, thanks to bubble-era Yen value and the fact that it was designed alongside the new ES. It’s way overbuilt- even the sheetmetal is thicker on an XV10 than on almost every other car.
Either one is gonna need a water pump/timing drive, and I’d rather do that on the V6.
I would normally go with the Lexus but the little add-ons make me wonder how it’s been treated. Even the most reliable car will fail if it’s beaten on and neglected.
Always loved the looks of the S160/2nd gen Aristo/GS. That’s worth $1000.
GS for me – but to the Taurus mention in the Camry part – most reviews of the time seemed to say the Taurus had made big leaps forward in refinement over the old one. Was it just in comparison to the old Taurus? Were they just being nice? Maybe, but what really didn’t help Ford was the XV20 Camry a year later being cheapened and cost cut (still the higher quality model in the long run) over the overengineered XV10 – so Toyota was able to cut the price while Ford had raised theirs. On top of the well-known styling debacle.
That Lexus is so cheap I’m worried it’s hiding something.
Not worried enough to vote for the Camry mind you.
Can’t really ride shiny and chrome in either of those, but only one has the V8.
It wouldn’t surprise me if 5 years from now we were able to redo this showdown with a few 10k miles more
Oddly enough I’m leaning toward the Camry. It seems like a near-perfect choice for a DD in an urban area: the interior is quite nice, and the exterior is already kind of of rough so there would be no worries about any additional dings.
The required dent is on the trunk lid, rather than the bumper, but I can over look that.
I picked the Lex, switch out the rims to Work and then swap out the tranny for a 6-spd. And then change the jizz white paint to Boost Blue Pearl from a Honda CTR. Then spend $10k on a audiophiles wet dream sound system for the inside.
“Jizz white” haha. My buddy used the same name for that pearly white on Cadillacs.
Ugh this is a tough one. Based on the visual and mechanical modifications this GS430 has certainly been run hard and put away wet. I’m trying to find a way to say this that isn’t problematic….umm….this is the sort of car you see breaking every traffic law on planet earth over the course of 30 seconds in a rough part of town.
To make a long story short…that car has seen some shit and has probably been an accessory to some less-than-wholesome activity. At least in my area beat up older luxury cars with some janky modifications are something you should stay several car lengths away from. But all that being said…I’d still risk it with the hooptie Lexus.
It’s a V8, it’s much nicer on the inside, and I’ll bet with some TLC you can return it to a more stock appearance pretty easily. Then maybe take the intake off and give it a decent exhaust so you can hear the V8 do V8 stuff. It’ll make a fine cruiser at that point. Maybe not for long…but who knows, it’s a Lexus.
My thoughts exactly. I’ve been privy to some of these activities and can confirm that this is usually what these cars were used for. But I will say this looks a lot nicer than the BMWs we allegedly had in our possession when such activities were allegedly done. This is a much cleaner base than what we dealt with. For a few weekends of work you’ll have a basically bulletproof luxury car with styling that still holds up for fuck it money. You can’t beat that even if the competitor is a bulletproof Camry in similar fuck it money range.
Came here to write exactly this. While there is a good chance of some lackadaisical maintenance over the Camrys life it doesn’t look like it was intentionally molested like the Lexus has been. The blue lights immediately make me think boy racer driving like a d-bag and probably doing some questionable mods over the years. If both were clean I’d have gone lexus in a second but it screams over my head with problems to me.
“this GS430 has certainly been run hard and put away wet.”
Took the words right out of my brain. That was exactly what I thought when I saw the Lexus photo.
I came to the opposite conclusion, though. I’m willing to bet that Lexus has a lot of hidden issues due to ramping off speed bumps and taking hard corners, etc. I’d rather put the money into refreshing that trusty old Camry. That 1MZ-FE V6 is reliable and well built and can be pretty easily boosted to ~250 HP with a TRD supercharger and some tuning, which would put it at around 11.5 lbs/HP, which is pretty close to the Lexus’s stock 12 lb/HP. So, whether you want a reliable daily, or a boosted sleeper, I’d personally rather go with the Camry.
This is a nice matchup. Even with that price difference, I think the Lexus is the way to go. But that price difference on two reliable cars makes it competitive.
Had to Lexus as the price will be the same once you do the repair listed on Toyota.
“double fist”?
Is his where The Autopian is heading?
Yeah, that sounds painful. I imagine that requires a lot of stretching.
Y’all need to lay off the site with the orange logo a little bit if this is the first place your minds go….and I’m not talking about Jalopnik
Double fisting means a drink in each hand. As in “he’s got 2 beers, he’s double fisting. Go Gordie!”
But what you do in you spare rime with bearing grease is up to you. No judging here.
I took the Lexus.
Both are good choices. I went with the Lexus just based on looks.
GS has it. RWD, V8…take off the window visors, find the original wheels, spec it with the right lights and clean up the paint….wicked cool cruiser.
Even if you have to replace the front control arms and steering rack because that 8 was a little heavy, it’s still my choice. Plus the fixes you mentioned too.