Good morning, Autopians! It’s another Two-Door Tuesday as we look at a pair of sporty coupes from opposite sides of the Pacific Ocean built in the same year. But first, let’s see how yesterday’s vans did:
Bit of a toss-up, but the Ford has it. Not surprised; to buy a VW van you have to really want a VW van. A Ford Aerostar is more of a casual “oh look, a van” purchase. But I don’t think either seller will have trouble unloading them.
Now, for today’s choices, I need you to cast your mind back to 1983. (If your mind wasn’t yet in existence in ’83, just pretend.) Cheers was on TV, Def Leppard’s masterful album Pyromania was in record stores, record stores existed, and every manufacturer offered at least one sporty two-door coupe intended for daily regular use. Most offered more than one, in different sizes. Chevy’s Camaro was one year into its radical third-generation redesign, and Toyota’s second-generation Celica Supra (yes, it was still the Celica Supra) was also celebrating its first birthday. And to a ten-year-old in the suburbs, both made the future look like a very bright place indeed.
Thirty-nine years later, we find these two, derelict and forlorn, in the Seattle area. Both sound like they’re just a whisker away from running, but both are as far removed from their glory days as the protagonist of a Bruce Springsteen song. Let’s see which one you’d rather bring back.
1983 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 – $1,995
Engine/drivetrain: 5.0 liter V8, 5 speed manual, RWD
Location: Snohomish, WA
Odometer reading: 123,000 miles
Runs/drives? Not quite
The Chevy Camaro, and the third-generation of it in particular, seems to be the butt of a great many largely undeserved jokes. It’s dismissed as a “redneck car,” a teenage hooligan’s plaything, not anything any serious car-lover would ever consider. My guess is that most of those people have never driven one of these cars. Yes, the interior squeaks and rattles everywhere. Yes, if it has T-tops, your head is going to get wet. But it’s cheap, has a V8, handles better than you think, and is a nice clean style that still looks sharp today. What’s not to like?
This Camaro is the top-of-the-line for ’83 Z28 model, equipped with a 305 cubic inch Chevy small-block V8. This car has the high-output (190 horsepower, a lot for the early ’80s) version, with a good old Quadrajet four-barrel carb in place of the troublesome “Cross-Fire” double throttle-body fuel injection. (One gearhead friend of mine referred to it as “Cease-Fire Injection,” but I’m pretty sure he heard it somewhere else; he wasn’t clever enough to come up with that on his own.) This engine was only available with a five-speed manual.
The pictures we get aren’t great, but on the outside this Camaro looks mighty clean. And the engine bay is tidy as well. The interior is described as “gross but definitely cleanable,” which worries me. [Editor’s Note: I mean technically, anything is “cleanable.” – JT] I hope it’s not too trashed inside, because otherwise, this looks like a good candidate for some freshening up. The seller says it ran two years ago, but has a bad ignition switch. If that’s the only thing wrong with it apart from the unknown interior, it’s definitely worth a look.
This era of Camaro has another interesting bit of history hiding in the dashboard as well. You can just barely make it out in this photo:
It has an 85 MPH speedometer; even though the law that required them had ended a year or two earlier, cars designed for the mandate stuck with the 85 limit for years after. To take advantage of the other half of the dial, GM made the speedometer needle double-ended, and put MPH on one side of the gauge and KM/H on the other side, instead of superimposing one scale over the other like most cars. Neat, huh? [Editor’s Note: Very! – JT]
1983 Toyota Celica Supra – $1,000
Engine/drivetrain: 2.8 liter DOHC inline 6, 4 speed automatic, RWD
Location: Marysville, WA
Odometer reading: 182,000 miles
Runs/drives? Turns over but won’t start
Meanwhile, in Japan, Toyota was sowing the seeds of a legend. The Supra wouldn’t really come into its own for a few more years, when it came out from under the shadow of the lesser Celica, but all the elements were there: a twin-cam inline six, great handling, and lots of gadgets.
This Supra is equipped with a digital dashboard including a trip computer, apparently a rare option in the US. It also has a four-speed automatic, the first-ever electronically controlled automatic transmission. It has two shift modes: Power and Normal, selectable via a button near the shifter. Nothing earth-shaking now, of course, but heady stuff in 1983.
This car is a little rough. It looks like it has been sitting a long time, based on the cobwebs on the shifter, and the interior is a bit scruffy. Outside, things are better, but not perfect: there is a little rust, and some minor damage near one of those weird rear side marker lights. [Editor’s Note: I always loved those rear side markers. It’s so rare to see a side marker lamp given so much stylistic attention, including sheet metal stampings! They were like little auxiliary rocket engines. – JT] The light itself is also broken. The seller says it turns over but won’t quite start; it could be as easy as fresh gas, or it could be any number of far more serious maladies. There’s only one way to find out, and it will cost you a grand.
This could be a nice little project, as long as it doesn’t take too much to get it running and you don’t expect perfection. Leave it scruffy, clean up the cobwebs, and enjoy.
And there you have them: one brutish throwback, and one glimpse of things to come. A little troubleshooting and some elbow grease would help either one. It’s all a matter of which one you connect with.
I say the supra just because we recently got a 1985 Celica GTS given to us and between the two of them could make a pretty cool Rad car
If the Celica wasn’t an automatic, maybe.
As things are, gotta go Camaro.
I’ll start working on the mullet today. Where did I put my big gold chains?
I’m going Camaro for a redemption tour. Always loved the Gen 3 style. In 1984 I test drove two cars. A Camaro with the High Output 305, 5 speed, and a Dodge Daytona Turbo. I agonized over my decision and went progressive with the Daytona. Worst car choice ever. I want to go back in time and correct that horrible mistake.
This showdown merely requires us to stay home. Camaro: suspect interior. Supra: shitbox condition AND not running. Not worth the vote. Maybe tomorrow brings something better.
Camaro, hands down!
Shouldn’t you be saying “but you know, the ’83 Cavalier Type 10 is totally the hatch I really want…”
😉
Both of these are guys are smoking some good crystal with those prices. Camaro has been posted for 16 days, Supra for 8
Thing is they dont run/drive. The engine or trans or both could be completely fubar. Expect to put in a new fuel pump, possibly new gas tank on either car cause the fuel has turned to varnish.
I see the Supra as a parts car for a nicer one. So maybe $400 tops or whatever theyre paying at the scrap yard.
The Camaro though looks like a great shell to build a drag car out of. Body looks straight, if it has no rust underneath then its a keeper. Those leaky t tops might have rotted out the floor though. Dude is high as a kite for $2000, but maybe $1000 if the body is super nice
You know what the 80’s remind me of? Ronald Reagan, and Ronald Reagan was a dick. And Madonna, she was a dick too. I hated the 80’s ergo both of these are grody to the max. The only good thing that happened in the 80’s was the fall of the Berlin Wall, and that was practically the 90’s.
Ugh, always hated camaros and this gen in particular. The association with the various people I knew who owned them does nothing to temper my distaste. Pop-up headlights all day
The exterior of the Z28 calls out to me! That paint looks very good, and the wheels, engine, and trim look way better than they have a right to look!
The thought of the interior scares me.
This is a popular Supra, but that interior isn’t great either.
Tough call.
This sure is a tough one. The MkII is my very favorite Supra, looks-wise. If the Supra was a manual it would be no contest. If the Supra was a P-type rather than an L-type, it would be no contest.
I do have a soft spot for the 3rd-gen Camaro, since they were so common in my youth, several friends had them in high school. I did get to drive one friend’s 1988 2.8L 5-speed, and I can vouch for the handling being much better than you expect.
Also, I already have a wedge-shaped six-cylinder Japanese sport coupe from the ’80s in my garage.
And yet, the Supra is only a transmission swap away from being decently desirable…..
I feel like this is a draw.
Tell me it’s a 280ZX!
It is not a 280ZX. Right make, wrong model.
The 280ZX has too many curves to be truly called “wedge-shaped”
The car I’m talking about is a 200SX SE V6.
A five speed in the Camaro has a clear edge over the Supra, but the description of the interior has me wondering how much those companies that clean up crime scenes charge by the hour.
Camaro. It’s trash, but its good trash. And the kind of trash that will probably cost less than $50 and a hour or two to get running.
Had an ’83 Camaro with the cross-fire. It was one of my favorite cars I ever owned. Never had any problem with the cross-fire till it I got some water in the gas and it caused a couple sets of injectors to stick open. Once I got that cleaned up I never had another problem with it. Sweetest exhaust note you ever heard cruising down the road, exciting little flip-up louvers (lame, I know, but I loved it anyway), auto but with very positive shifts (chirpy 2nd even under moderate throttle), and to this day the best steering I’ve ever had. (PU suspension bushings) I’d have trouble choking down the $2k price tag for a non-running moldy anything, but I got no use for a non-running Supra at any price. At least I know the GM will be cheap and easy to fix.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say the look of the louvers on this car are perhaps the best of any car made after the mid-’70s, in the cheese-tastic way you mention. It’s the big expanse of glass.
Rear glass on most contemporary cars is either too small or too vertical for them to work anymore, IMO.
Oh no, sir, you misunderstand me. The flip-up louvers were in the hood for ram air.
I didn’t know that was a still a thing on them by that point (I’m a Mustang guy myself, my Camaro knowledge is lacking), but damn, nothing at all lame about those, they rock!
Camaro hands down. I had a similar vintage Firebird that I swapped a V8 into (I bought it without an engine) and had some fun back in the day.
I’ve come within a cat’s whisker of owning a handful of those third gen Camaros, but for some reason or another haven’t ponied up the money to put my name on the title. That said, Camaro is an easy choice for me. V8 American muscle and a stick! Hard to beat that combo, and those old small block Chevies are hard to kill. Mullet-mobile for me; paddle faster, I think I hear banjos.
Ah the PNWet, where cars grow lichen and friggin’ algae.
So the only reason that Camaro doesn’t have 2 inches of stagnant water in the footwells is because of the rust holes below the moss.
But at least the Celica should be OK since its corroded heat-cycled 1983-vintage electronics are only used for minor things like operating the transmission and running the whole dang dashboard.
This whole thing is a Daniel Kaluuya style “NOPE.”
I’m redneck enough to prefer the Camaro, even though it’s from the generation that I’ve never been able to like at all. If it hadn’t been a stick, then it would have been a tougher call for me, but as it is, it’s my kind of shitbox.
As much as I love that gen Celica Supra, I think the Camaro wins here.
In modern cars, the automatic vs manual debate is rather silly. The automatics are objectively better in every way, and nostalgia is the only reason to go for a manual. That is unequivocally not the case in older cars such as these. If not for the slush box in the Celica, it would win, no contest. However, an automatic in this vintage is a deal killer for me.
I wouldn’t call it nostalgia, I’d call it “driver involvement” maybe.
Modern autos win for performance, sure, but not for involvement. Nothing wrong with different automotive goals.
I voted Camaro because I had an ’89 in Paint Peeling Red with a transplanted ’93 3.4L V6, 5-speed. It was a fun car even when it wasn’t working just right.
“This engine was only available with a five-speed manual.” Hell yeah, brother! The way it should be! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
That being said, a Supra for $1000? How could you turn it down. Six inline sounds real fine!
Get the Supra and bosozuku it out.
Related (esp. for those not around in ’83), the regular Celica of the time was also pretty handsome and cool. Lower-rung but still distinctive in its way. And those taillights were like nothing else.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1983-toyota-celica-2/
I’ll take the Supra, automatic be damned. The Camaro’s lack of interior photos and the seller’s admission that it is gross inside make it a no go for me.
As an aside:
“Def Leppard’s masterful album Pyromania was in record stores”
I was also 10 going on 11 in 1983 and for my birthday all I really wanted was music. Inspired heavily by Friday Night Videos (I lived in the sticks, so no MTV for me until much later) and I made a list of all of the hot albums of the moment that I wanted, with an especial emphasis on Def Leppard. Come my birthday I was really excited to get three albums: “Thriller”, “Rio” and… Led Zeppelin “II”. Anyhow after a couple of listens I got over my disappointment and broadened my musical horizons.
A recent study found that our generation spent a third of income on music as teenagers.
Today’s teens? Less than 5%.
Gunter glieben glauten globen