Happy Friday, Autopians! For today’s Showdown, I was all set to feature a three-way shootout of the week’s winners, maybe another “Track, Daily, Burn” competition, but then Wednesday evening I received a Slack message from David, containing a link to a Dodge Viper for sale, and the cryptic question: “That or BMW i8?” I wasn’t sure what to make of that; either his Christmas bonus was a lot bigger than mine was, or his NyQuil-fogged brain was daydreaming of a stablemate for his Jeeps and i3 and Leaf. In any event, I took it as a prompt, so here we are.
But first let’s settle up on yesterday’s matchup. It seems we were in agreement that they’re both quite good deals, and should last a long time yet, but the pull of the cool little Mazda truck was far stronger than the stodgy beige Toyota. I guess it depends on what you’re looking for; I think the Avalon would make a better commuter, with the comfy seats and quiet ride, but the truck might be a superior all-rounder, with the ability to handle more weekend chores. If I had to have only one vehicle (perish the thought!), it would probably be something like that Mazda truck.
That begs the question: if we all love small pickups like that, why did they completely disappear from the market? The Maverick is a decent substitute, but it only comes as a crew cab, and it isn’t a simple body-on-frame leaf-sprung truck truck like this. I suppose we’ll never see the likes of this Mazda in the marketplace again. Good thing they last forever, then, I guess.
All righty then. I’m not one to question the inscrutable motives of our illustrious Editor-In-Chief, but neither do I feel qualified to discuss these cars with any level of expertise. They’re both well out of my league financially, and one of them is technologically as well. However, I do get the gist of them: They’re both designed to go fast and look cool doing it. One of them is a hammer and chisel; the other a laser cutter. One is hair metal; the other techno. I could keep going with the tired clichés, but maybe we’d better just look at the cars.
2008 Dodge Viper SRT-10 – $69,000
Engine/drivetrain: 8.4 liter overhead valve V10, six-speed manual, RWD
Location: Warrenton, OR
Odometer reading: 35,000 miles
Operational status: Ready to scare you, and in need of some exercise
It is impossible to overstate just how bonkers the Dodge Viper is. When it debuted in 1992, Dodge was still selling Dynasty sedans, complete with landau roofs. Its minivans were still more or less square. The hottest performance cars offered were collaborations with Carroll Shelby and had four-cylinder turbo engines. And all of a sudden, here’s this monster, a ten-cylinder roadster with 400 horsepower and no door handles, storming in like the school bully ready to steal the Corvette’s lunch money. It was glorious. When people ask me why I’m a Chrysler fan, I point to stuff like the Viper.
We all expected it to be a flash in the pan, but Chrysler surprised everyone by actually developing the thing, making it nicer and more user-friendly, while at the same time somehow even faster and more brutal. By the time this fourth-generation Viper came around, its V10 displaced a whopping 512 cubic inches and assaulted the rear tires with a full six hundred horsepower. It’s a simple formula, and one that appeals to the lizard brain in all of us: Big engine in front, stickshift in the middle, tire smoke comes out the back.
It’s not what anyone would call refined or elegant; inside it’s standard-issue Chrysler gray plastic, and I’m pretty sure those are the same HVAC controls as were in my old Neon. But who cares? If you want refinement, go look elsewhere. This is a big dumb toy, and an exceptional one at that. It’s everything you always wished your Hot Wheels cars could be, only big enough to actually get in and drive.
The Viper was always at least a little bit about out-Corvetteing the Corvette, and while I hate to make assumptions about anyone, this seller seems to be trying to out-Corvette-owner stereotypical Corvette owners. This car has a scant 35,000 miles on its odometer, and apparently it’s too precious to even back out of the garage for proper photos. It’s been well cared-for, but maybe too well; I’d personally rather look at a cheaper, scruffier Viper with 100,000 miles on it.
2014 BMW i8 Pure Impluse World Package – $58,998
Engine/drivetrain: Turbocharged 1.5 liter DOHC inline 3 plus 98 kw electric motor, six-speed automatic, AWD
Location: Burlingame, CA
Odometer reading: 30,000 miles
Operational status: Ready to reclaim that “Ultimate Driving Machine” title
While the Viper is a throwback to an earlier time, BMW’s now-defunct i8 coupe is very much of the moment. It’s a plug-in hybrid, loaded with all sorts of tech gadgets that I’m sure Thomas Hundal could explain to you if you asked him nicely. I honestly didn’t know much about this car at all until I started researching it, and the more I read about it, the cooler it gets. It’s one of the best parts of this gig: having to learn about cars I didn’t know about so I don’t sound like a complete idiot.
A lot of hybrid vehicles link an electric motor and a gasoline engine together mechanically. Toyota’s hybrid system uses sort of a “push-me-pull-you” arrangement of its electric motor and gasoline engine, and Honda’s hybrids stick the motor between the engine and a traditional gearbox. The i8 has no such connection; its 1.5 liter gas engine drives the rear wheels, and the electric motor drives the front. Either system is capable of operating independently, but are managed together by software. It’s two-two-two drivetrains in one!
This i8 has only 30,000 miles on the clock, and looks like it’s brand new. The absurdly long name is apparently some special trim package, which includes the snazzy blue seat belts. And as we all know, blue means hybrid. I thought the i8’s design was a little busy when it first debuted, but it’s growing on me, and I think this is quite a handsome car. Either that, or car designs have gotten so outrageous in the last ten years that this looks tame now. At least, until you open those butterfly doors.
It’s still a flashy car, and it’s definitely no slouch: Zero to sixty flashes by in a mere 4.4 seconds, and it’s electronically limited to 155 miles an hour. But I fear the visceral feedback is lacking – no big roaring engine, no surge of power as revs build, and while it does have flappy-paddles that allow manual shifting, it’s a far cry from a heavy clutch pedal and a big chunky lever moving actual gears around. I’m sure it’s a ton of fun, and I’d love to drive one, but it’s a different kind of fun, and I think it would take some getting used to.
I’m still not sure what David’s motivation was in pointing these cars out to me. But I’m glad he did; it gives me a chance to dive into some stuff I don’t normally get to write about. And speaking of the unusual, next week I’m going to feature all weird reader suggestions. (That’s weird suggestions from readers, not suggestions from weird readers, but I guess either way works.) Post your suggestions to the Discord, or on Opposite Lock, and I’ll pick out the ones that move me, and pit them against each other. I already have a pair for Monday, but the rest of the week is wide open. Tell me what you want to see!
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
Someone in my neighborhood has an i8 along with a bunch of other douchey “baller on a budget” kind of cars. I snicker at it every time I pass by. They had one in an Overdrive video last year and it was several seconds slower around a track than a cheap lightly modified hot hatch (Peugeot 205 maybe?). Viper all day long.
I think the i8 is super cool, I’ve sat in one before and butterfly doors always make an impression. It’s very obviously a premium product.
A friend of mine has an ’08 Viper, a hardtop unlike this one, I winter store it for him. It’s difficult to get in and out of, claustrophobic and cramped inside and basically impossible to reverse without using the mirrors. Keep in mind though I’m 6’4″.
But I’d have to go with the Viper if only because I’ve never owned a 10 cylinder anything. And there really isn’t anything like them. Plus I don’t expect the price of entry to ever go down on these, if resale matters to you.
I didn’t think anything could make the i8 look good.
Until you put it next to a Viper. Woof.
I was a kid when the OG Viper came out back in the 90’s, and everyone I knew lost their shit over them, meanwhile I was losing my shit over the E36 M3. I thought the Viper was ugly and stupid. Just an unrefined turd with a gigantic motor like some kind of 4 wheeled Harley. Fast forward 30-ish years, and I’ve discovered an appreciation for the Viper. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that when I was like 13 years old, I just assumed that there would always be crazy-ass cars like the Viper, but now I know that there will never be anything like it again.
That said, my heart still lies with Ze Germans, so I had to vote for the i8. I’d honestly love to have both of them, but I’m a sucker for bad financial decisions, so BMW it is. Plus, I already have something with a bunch of horsepower and the correct number of pedals, so an i8 would be an interesting addition to the family.
I’m typically pro electrification for most sorts of cars. I want to hybrid most of the things out there that haven’t been yet.
But let’s get real, if I’m going to own something objectively stupid, I want it to be as subjectively awesome as possible. The Viper is the embodiment of that concept, so Viper it is.
A tech wonder from 10 years ago is neat to learn and read about, but I don’t desire to own it.
I also feel in love with that original Viper (for some reason they brought a pre-production one to my college campus, about which I remember 3 things: getting a free poster, the insanely large original sideview mirrors (at least they looked big on such a low-slung car), and it rolling along, engine rumbling, at walking speed, surrounded by swooning collegians.
All that said, that hood is way too boy racer for me. And like Mark, I don’t want or need a babied Viper—if I want to pay for a car in great condition, I want something modern. I feel like soaking up highway miles at night in that i8 would feel like the future, now and for another 30 years.
Now, if I could just get Tracey’s deal on a replacement battery….
While the i8 is probably the better car, the Viper is just cooler. And if I’m buying an expensive toy, I want it to be cool.
I hear more issue with the I8 hybrid systems than I do with the fairly simplistic V10. the Viper will surely kill you faster. and I agree it is cooler in a lot of ways, but the masses will see a sleek and rare car with doors that open up and think that thing is way cooler than it is to live with.
How do you hear anything about i8 ownership? They sold like 6,500 in the USA
I suppose mostly Youtubers and the guy I ran into at Sema in 2019 that rolled up to the resort in one.
Viper all day long. But the i8 is interesting, drives well. Check out the rear and you will not be able to unsee a 911 coming out of the back 🙂
I love the styling of the i8 and I’m sure it is plenty of fun, but I will have plenty of opportunities to drive cars like that on the future. The Viper is visceral to the nth degree and a dying breed. I want to experience it while I still can.
Not only will there be plenty of opportunities for an i8-like experience in the future, those future cars will be better than the i8. It’s a historical curiosity that will show up in some “Remember this weird car?” Autopian article in 2054. The Viper is likely the best version of what it is that will ever exist. Nobody will ever make a car like that again.
Easy vote for the Viper.
Honestly, I’d love both but I’m voting for the Viper since I have to choose just one
I’m excited about the weird reader suggestions next week. Come Monday we’ll see the headline “Brad or Marissa, which one is weirder?” and we’ll learn about their outrageous kinks and obscure hobbies.
Dunno why we’ll be doing this in an automotive website but sure.
I’m only picking the Viper because my nephew very much wants one.
Talk about apples and oranges i8 vs Viper, I would take the Viper maybe as it’s not as overpriced as the i8. While a $60k i8 is better than the many $100k examples and I am a BMW guy, the only american sports car I ever wanted was the Viper.
The i8 like the Z8 baffles me, cars the dealers could not sell and gave away with massive discounts, only to be highly sought after years later. I remember i8s with under 10k miles could be easily had for $30-40k around 2017-18 but that is not as bad as Z8s new for $80k or used $50k that have turned into $200k cars.
The I8s are cool – they look like a spaceship on the road, but there’s no contest for me on this, it’s Viper all the way. When this came out, it was The Car. The One To Have. A local dealer go one in on their showroom floor and it was specifically blamed for at least a half-dozen accidents at the nearest intersection.
After a slew of muddling whatever-mobiles that materialized throughout the 80’s, here was a gearhead’s absolute wonder to ring in the 90’s. The craziest looks, a bonkers 10-cylinder engine, side exhaust. The whole package felt like such a middle finger to what had come before and it was glorious. Many a study hall was spent ogling picture layouts and specs the The Viper. Also, this conversation happened:
Pot Head, occasionally would show up in study hall a little baked: “You’re into cars, have you seen that cool red one?”
Me: “Huh? Lotta red cars out there”
Pot Head: “Yeah, but this… it’s, uh… it’s called ‘The Sniper’.
Me: “Huh? Doesn’t sound familiar”
Pot Head: “Yeah, it’s fukn’ awesome – the Sniper!! Saw it in a magazine!”
Me: O.o “Do you mean the ‘Viper’?”
Pot Head: “Uh.. maybe that’s it.. I’m not sure, but it’s really fukn’ cool – you should totally check it out”
Me: “Awesome, I’ll be sure to do that.”
Ever since then, I’ve kind of wished Chrysler would release a “Sniper”.
How much do I hate convertibles? Enough so I’d rather buy the i8, despite liking having a clutch and being able to do skids.
A friend of mine had an i8, and it was a perfectly lovely daily driver, but you get stared at a lot. I guess the same is true of the Viper.
I got dragged in to an OEM benchmarking session on an i8 once. One of the senior guys drove it, loved it and then wanted to know why the powertrain guys couldn’t make our exhausts sound as good. As I was the exhaust guy at the time I got taken out in it and had to put up with his driving while he basically told me I was shit at my job. When we got back he asked what I thought, and I said that what with the synthesised noise from the stereo and the other synthesised noise from the external speakers in the exhaust it was hard to tell what the actual exhaust system sounded like. He hadn’t realised the noises weren’t real. Idiot.
Give me the lo tech hi power viper, less to go wrong
I don’t know if there is any universe that I buy the i8. Not that it isn’t a capable, cool looking car. It is. But it is also a BMW with extra complications. If I am in the market for a used grand touring coupe that used to be over $100k like this, I get a Lexus LC.
But a Viper is a Viper. There really is no substitute. I’d probably rather get the first gen GTS in blue/white stripes…that was the iconic Viper for me growing up, but these are cool too. Unfortunately they’ll apparently never be “cheap”.
I’m a big Mopar fan, but I actually think the i8 is the better looking car. That said, the stuck-on dash touchscreen dates it, and while collectible, I suspect the market isn’t that big for it. Vipers are always popular, and the SRT-10 is a beast. Keep it and drive the hell out of it or decide you can’t afford to feed that V10 and sell it for a profit.
Hey people buy daily drivers at $70,000 all the time. Think of the Viper the same buy it and drive it
No kidding though, I see a 1st gen Viper at the grocery store relatively often. Either he’s an owner for one of the adjacent restaurants, or he keeps the battery charged picking up milk and bread.
Also to the question on the Mazda Truck disappearing, the EPA shooting itself in the foot with the Footprint rule. “Hey, let’s mandate the bigger the vehicle the less mpg it should get, good job guys, harumph, harumph!”. Automakers…”So if we build it twice as big we need half the mpg? Sold!”
Add in that the customers for auto manufacturers aren’t drivers, they’re the car dealers. 4-door big pickup make big profit, even if it’s a ‘compact’ pickup. The dealers order what will most likely help them profit, then rely on sales tactics to make a buyer think what they’re buying is what they wanted to buy, as opposed to what the seller wanted to sell.
That sounds *way* more cynical than I mean it to.
Just seems to be how things are. Same with manual transmissions: it’s easier to sell an extra automatic to someone who can drive a stick than it is to sell a manual to someone who can only drive an automatic. And since dealers are fronting the costs for the cars (trying make their floor financing work out for them), they get what is easier to sell.
The i8 is awesome looking, but I’m a fairly practical guy, and strangely the more practical choice is the Viper. That’s weird. But I wouldn’t recommend any BMW that’s out of warranty, not even a fancy bullet one with butterfly wings.
I see what you did there…
Viper. I’d make sure my insurance is paid up, and other affairs in order, stick Clapton’s Slowhand in, and head off to the mountains.
Hey, if you’re gonna go, spinning off a mountaIn hairpin to a bluesy guitar in a hot car is better than slowly rotting in a bed 😉
Absolutely! First experiences were seeing the concept in the design office in 1989 and later having a pre-production 1992 model for a weekend “evaluation vehicle”. I had many muscle cars before the evaluation of that ’92, but learned very quickly that you do not do a 1-2 shift under power unless you’re on a straight wide open road! No damage or safety issues, but fresh shorts were required.
This is one of the rare times I’ll vote for the BMW… and mostly because the i8 is stylistically very interesting and a very advanced vehicle in many ways.
The biggest problem it had was the Tesla Model S outdid it and thus, got all the attention.
So my vote goes to the BMW for style and novelty reasons.
Also, that particular year and gen of Viper doesn’t look all that great to me… but I know it’s a blast to drive.
While the i8 is cool, it’s overly complicated.
The Viper is simple, and I’m pro Viper V10 all day.
So, it’s Viper all day to me.
These two exotics are, in the end, still just a means of transportation. The difference is, one transports your body, the other transports your soul. Viper, because “tramps like us, baby we were born to run.”
Beyond the palace, hemi-powered drones scream down the boulevard…
For some reason, the i8 seems to actually be “worth” the 60k. I would never pay that much for a Viper
Especially with that ugly ragtop
That’s one of the coolest parts! It fairly screams “this is only here b/c DOT regulations won’t allow us to sell you a car without a top.”
I recall reading that the first gen models were exceedingly uncomfortable when driven with the top in place. Not to mention they had no exterior door handles, so you had to reach in to even get in it.