Do you live in Colorado, Maryland, New York or one of the other 11 states in America that follow California’s tough emissions rules? And are you interested in buying a gasoline-only car from one of Stellantis‘ many brands soon? If so, pay attention, because some big changes with how the automaker allocates cars to those states are about to concern you.
A very happy Friday to all in Autopia who celebrate. In today’s morning news roundup as we close out the week: that item, plus a look at more (yes, more) chaos within Nissan; some surprisingly positive stats around electric vehicle adoption in America; and another blow for direct-to-consumer car sales in an important market, unless you’re Tesla, in which case you’re cool.
Stellantis’ CARB State Crackdown
Be advised: Stellantis, whose family of brands includes Jeep, Ram, Chrysler, Fiat, Alfa Romeo and a bunch of others, is no longer allocating internal combustion-only models to the 14 states that follow California’s emissions rules—unless customers order them, Automotive News reports. That’s a very big deal.
It’s also not new news—Stellantis said it’d start doing this back in April, but we’re really just seeing the effects of it now. (And given how long some models tend to hang around dealer lots, you may not fully feel it for a long time.)
Here’s what’s going on:
Stellantis dealer David Kelleher is taking every plug-in hybrid Jeep Wrangler he can get from the factory these days.
That’s because the automaker is no longer allocating gasoline-only Wranglers to his dealership in Pennsylvania, one of 14 states following emissions guidelines set by the California Air Resources Board that exceed nationwide standards.
Although the rules don’t require automakers to sell a certain percentage of zero-emission vehicles until 2026, Stellantis said it has stopped shipping internal combustion models to dealerships in those 14 states unless customers have ordered them. Meanwhile, dealers in non-CARB states can no longer get the Wrangler 4xe and other plug-ins without a customer order.
Kelleher said his salespeople have been trained on how to pitch the benefits of the 4xe models, which offer a performance boost in addition to fuel savings, and are selling them successfully. But he said Stellantis’ changes will have a “significant impact” on dealerships’ sales.
“We’ve learned how to sell these, and they’re not that difficult to sell,” Kelleher told Automotive News. “That being said, I still have customers that want gas.”
Stellantis is doing this, AN reports, as part of CARB’s new enforcement of tougher greenhouse gas emissions from the 2021 model year on. Stricter rules are yet coming, including zero-emission minimum sales requirements after 2026.
The CARB rules call for zero-emission vehicles and plug-in hybrids to be 35 percent of light-duty sales in the 2026 model year, 68 percent in 2030 and 100 percent in 2035.
The changes Stellantis already has made to its allocation process in anticipation of those requirements illustrate some of the uncertainty being created during the transition to electric vehicles.
Now, the challenge here for dealers is obvious enough, especially for ones in cities or areas where a customer can easily cross state lines:
Dealers in the CARB states worry they’ll be at a disadvantage if consumers start crossing state lines to buy gasoline vehicles from another store’s inventory rather than wait for a factory order. Some are working to trade for gasoline vehicles with stores in adjacent states.
“I think many of us expected when the CARB rules actually kick in in 2026 in a meaningful way that we’d have some allocation challenges,” said Brian Maas, president of the California New Car Dealers Association. “The fact that it’s happening [with Stellantis] in the middle of 2023 is a bit of a surprise. … People are going to go to Reno and Vegas and Phoenix to get ICE Wranglers, if that’s what they want.”
But other dealers kind of say it’s not that huge a deal. Several of Stellantis’ hybrid models like the Jeep Wrangler 4xe are super popular (it’s actually America’s best-selling PHEV, if you can believe it) and post-pandemic, customers are often used to ordering cars and waiting for them.
I tend to be on Team Make More Normal Cars Hybrids And PHEVs, because this is a great way to drive battery costs down, reduce emissions right now and save money on gas if going full-EV is too tough or expensive or just not your jam. And after a lot of delays, Stellantis is finally moving to electrify its lineup. If this helps more people consider a hybrid when they maybe wouldn’t have before, I say it’s a net positive—and the gas-only choice is still there. You just have to put in an order for it rather than find it on the dealer lot. Expect similar moves from other automakers down the line.
Florida Bans EV Direct Sales (Except For Tesla)
Speaking of car sales, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis—a GOP frontrunner for president in 2024, maybe kinda sorta?—is weighing in on the direct sales model used by Tesla and other new EV startups like Lucid and Rivian. And by “weighing in on,” I mean “has banned outright” in new legislation signed into law this week. Here’s Florida political website Florida Politics to explain:
It’s a good day for auto dealers in the Sunshine State, and not so great for motorists who’d prefer a more direct route for buying a new coupe, sedan or SUV.
Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a measure (HB 637) Tuesday banning most direct-to-consumer vehicle sales, solidifying the future viability of car-selling operations across the Sunshine State.
The measure, championed and authored by lobbyists representing the Florida Automobile Dealers Association (FADA), prohibits most automakers from selling vehicles directly to buyers.
That restriction, which goes into effect July 1, was considered a direct threat to the business model of Tesla, an electric vehicle (EV) manufacturer that — unlike other car companies — sells its vehicles online and through retail locations rather than third-party dealers.
But! Tesla managed to secure a carve-out exemption here; as Insider notes, the new law “allows electric-car companies, like Tesla, to continue selling directly to their customers without using a dealership if that’s already their established mode. Startups like Rivian and Lucid, which have followed Tesla’s lead on direct-to-consumer sales, would also be exempt.”
My read is that this law seems aimed to prevent legacy car companies—BMW, Honda, General Motors, whoever—from ever getting into the direct-sales game themselves if they wanted to in Florida.
Whether automakers want to do that depends on who you ask. Publicly they’ll almost all say they love and need their “dealer partners”; behind the scenes, some OEMs say they like and need the dealer system for sales and repairs, while others I’ve spoken to say they’d kick the franchise system to the curb if they could.
DeSantis and Florida’s legislators did Tesla a solid here, in particular, and DeSantis just announced his presidential run on Twitter with Elon Musk. (It would’ve been really, really funny, and almost Elon-esque, if DeSantis had done that announcement and then banned Tesla’s direct sales in Florida.) But even as things are rapidly changing in the car industry, car dealers still have a tremendous amount of lobbying clout and political power, especially with the Republican party dealers overwhelmingly donate to. This recent Slate article is a good read about how many of them are spooked by the EV revolution, too.
I’m not sure the dealer system is going anywhere anytime soon but it does have to evolve, because very few new players seem interested in taking part in their game.
EV Sales Up, Again
Automakers are cracking down from the days when many dealers (not all, of course, but this was a trend we saw broadly) gently or not-so-gently urged buyers away from EVs toward gas models. Ford, for example, mandates that EV sales are no-haggle-only.
Times are changing and that’s never more apparent than when we get the latest new car sales reports. First off, new car sales were surprisingly strong in May despite high interest rates and general economic uncertainty.
Second, EV registrations in America are now up to about 7% of our total market, at least through April, according to our friends at InsideEVs. Here’s the breakdown:
BEV registrations (select brands) – January-April 2023:
Tesla: 211,842 (up 52%) and 60.8% share (down from close to 70%)
Chevrolet – 24,689 and 7.1% share
Ford – 17,167 and 4.9% share
Volkswagen – 11,858 (up 236%)
Rivian – 9,302
Lucid – 2,298
VinFast – 83
More:
BEV registrations in January-April 2023:
–Tesla (60.8% BEVs): 211,842 (up 52%)
–Non-Tesla (39.2% BEVs): 136,416 (up about 116% from roughly 63,000)
–Total: 348,258 (up 72%) and 7% market share (up from 4.4% in 2022)It’s worth noting that in April alone, more than 90,000 new BEVs were registered, including over 56,000 Tesla. The top three BEV brands in the country were Tesla, Chevrolet and Ford.
It’s super interesting that Tesla’s sales are actually up while it loses market share at the same time. That says a lot about the glut of EVs entering the market. Also, from those three brands alone, the new tax incentives (which reward U.S.-made EVs and batteries and have thus left out Hyundai and others) sure are working as intended. Nonetheless, the Model Y is still the king of sales and it’s not even remotely close.
Also, if you are one of the 83 people who bought a VinFast between the start of the year and April, get in touch.
What The Hell Is Happening At Nissan?
I could be wrong, but post-Carlos Ghosn Nissan is in a supremely weird place. The future product roadmap doesn’t feel especially clear, it seems mired in a protracted renegotiation of its Alliance deal with Renault and Mitsubishi, and sales were way down last year thanks to chip shortages.
On top of that, it’s also had a ton of executive turnover and upheaval. The latest to peace out (thankfully not in an instrument case) is Chief Operating Officer Ashwani Gupta, a Harvard- and London Business School-educated native of India who came in via Renault about 20 years ago and was seen as a likely CEO contender someday. Here’s Reuters with the tea:
Gupta had clashed with Nissan Chief Executive Makoto Uchida over Uchida’s desire to close the negotiations with Renault quickly, with Gupta urging more caution over terms of the deal, people with knowledge of the talks have told Reuters.
The company on Friday said Gupta had taken key leadership positions and been a “driving force” in various alliance projects over several years resulting in many achievements. It did not further detail the accomplishments.
Gupta joined Renault in India in 2006 and later became vice president in charge of its global commercial vehicle business, a job he held until 2019 when he moved to junior alliance partner Mitsubishi Motors.
I do think a lot of Nissan’s future—and what we’re told about it—hinges on getting that Renault deal finalized because it deals with a lot of tricky matters like IP. Hopefully, they can get their marriage in order for the good of the kids (the cars.)
Your Turn
What happens to the dealer system in the coming electric era? Does it find a way to stay the same, evolve or cede ground to more direct-sellers?
DeScrotus and his handlers make my head hurt on a daily basis. It’s like there is a “who’s the bigger asshole” contest going on with the GOP and various state legislators. Looking at you Texas. Thank God for biological expiration dates.
It’s hard to understand what the role of a dealer is in a subscription business. :ROLL:
LOL @ 83 vinfast buyers. I can’t believe it’s that high.
My take on the Stellantis move is that they are trying the European way to buy cars in the US…
In Europe you don’t buy from a parking lot unless it’s a second hand car or it’s clearly stated that it was a dealer show car ( and thus also a second hand car with low kilometers ). You order your car, and if you want options you specify each and every one of them ( they usualy add to the cost ).
Then you wait for your car to be delivered. ( in some cases it can take half a year )
The bad : the ( potentially long ) wait.
The good : you get the car you want, and since all the prices are the same for a given country and set by the brand, there’s no price gouging at dealership level. They get a percentage on the sale, and that’s it.
( Now there’s some dealers that use the fact that prices are set by countries to buy cars in countries where the prices are lower and import them in countries where they are more expensive [ for a given model with the same options ], you could get nice price cuts 30ish years ago, but nowadays it’s not really worth the effort )
So, in other words, Florida is allowing companies that never had franchised dealers to start with and have always sold direct to continue doing so, but has made it illegal for automakers with existing franchised dealers to start direct sales. Im not sure how necessary this was, since franchise contracts usually carefully define the dealer’s exclusive territory, so the dealer would already have legal recourse if the manufacturer opened a competing company owned showroom in their area or started shipping factory direct to local customers.
That’s what happened when Fiat Chrysler attempted to open a company showroom in Los Angeles, claiming that local multibrand dealers weren’t doing a good enough job at promoting Chrysler’s products, but even though Californian law didn’t make it expressly illegal for them to do it, they ended up getting sued for breach of contract by the dealers whose franchises covered the area.
So, could a company (GM, say) start building electric cars under a new brand (let’s call it “Uranus”) that didn’t have any franchised dealers in FL, and only sell them direct? From the description of the law, seems possible. Then, if they chose, gradually discontinue EVs in their other brands and move them to the new brand (instead of “Chevy Bolt” it would be “Uranus Bolt”). Over time, as EVs replace ICEs, this would leave the dealerships as service-only (and maybe demo display) shops. But if dealerships make most of their money in the service bays, would they care?
Maybe, if it was structured as a wholly owned subsidiary with its own separate legal existence, as opposed to just a division or management group? GM did that before with Saturn Corporation so they could negotiate a separate UAW contract from the rest of GM and also write up stricter/more demanding franchise agreements with dealers
Even Saturn used GM ASSETS money and employees. It would need to completely separate or stock holders could sue them broke.
Why would shareholders sue over not respecting franchise agreements? If anything, they’d be on the other side of the issue
Because there stock is with the manufacturer and dealer and not the new no dealership company so basically screwing shareholders and making them pay for it.
So it is a law that makes each entity continue on with the decisions and agreements they made? Well that is certainly wrong headed we need the government to make shit up change the rules for no particular reasons and take more of the tax payers money for making things worse.
I don’t understand this Stellantis story at all. They’re changing their vehicle allocations in 2023 because of a law that doesn’t take effect until 2026…? What am I missing.
Probably manufacturing capacity/supply chain problems, customers in non-CARB states won’t be able to buy a hybrid or electric unless they special order it, customers in CARB states won’t be able to buy a pure ICE unless they special order it, Stellantis is rigidly dividing their eggs into two separate baskets
Yeah but i bet nothing forbids dealers from swapping inventory if they have a buyer like they have done for the last 50 years.
Market experiment? If you wait until 2026 to implement this change without knowing the effects it will have then it would be too late if things don’t go the way you want.
Experimenting to see if the market is ready for the European way to buy cars.
For the 2-3 people that bother to order? Not really. There are 4 models and only 2 popular models that you cannot stock. And no one should be order a 2.0 or 3.6 in place of a 4XE unless they’re brain damaged. There is no upside especially with incentives equalizing cost.
CARB states are also lease heavy states, and therefore create the next generation of CPO cars. Federal states typically take long loan terms to buy these vehicles, which means longer term finance incentives no federal credit to assist, and you’re not going to see those cars back for 3-4 years at best.
This is the change that is coming. It’s got to start somewhere, and it was never going to start with red hat states.
Seeing the downstream effects of states following the CARB standard makes me glad that I live in Michigan, with its lax emission and registration standards. Sure, it has its downsides, but I’m increasingly thankful for it. It’s not that I have an issue with PHEVs (I actually quite like them) but sorry, I’m just not willing to pay the price premium unless I’m forced to. Looking at a new Grand Cherokee for my next car and the base V-6 Laredo (what I want) starts at about $40K, while the PHEV base price is only available two trims higher and also costs $17K more. Gonna be a no for me, dawg. Maybe if I can get a hybrid vehicle that I actually want to drive without usurious pricing then we can talk. But until then…
The laws like Florida’s annoy me. Not necessarily because I love franchise dealers, but because for whatever reason the EV startups are given a pass, what some might even call a competitive advantage, that isn’t available to established automakers. A lot of the import brands fought the franchise dealer model tooth and nail when they came to the U.S. and were forced to comply against their wishes. Now it’s okay for EV startups to sidestep this, but existing OEMs can’t open their own corporate stores (even in new markets where they don’t have franchise dealer competition)? Seems pretty stupid. I also think that if we’re going to eliminate traditional dealer requirements that there needs to be some sort of mechanism to ensure that the startups have a sufficient footprint and capability to service the customer cars that they’re putting on the road. But in Florida’s case, Elon and DeSantis are bros so I wouldn’t count on it.
Color me shocked with Nissan-Renault. Open discussions of divorce may no longer be happening, but I’m almost certain that the factions within the company are sleeping in separate bedrooms, so to speak. It’s the equivalent of a married couple who despise each other but won’t get divorced because it’s too expensive. The alliance isn’t going anywhere but my prediction is that it’ll be increasingly fraught. The Ghosn-era tensions haven’t gone away and are quite possibly even magnified.
Various governments will likely step in and Force the Major Automakers who already have dealerships to keep the dealership model alive.
Personally I don’t think I’ll ever buy a new car from a dealership, being forced to use a middleman is just sad.
Well you better hope others do or you will be helpless in the case of needed repairs short term thinker.
Service centers and independent mechanics have been and will continue to be a thing.
Service centers dealers out of busuness without a sales arm. Without a right to repair independent shops are gone. LOOK AT TESLA.
The whole Stellantis thing makes no sense. Are they worried pure ICE cars not ordered by customers will still be sitting on the lot in CARB states when they are banned in 2035?!?!
From an European point of view it makes sense… We order our cars, we don’t pick them out of a parking lot. They just found a reason to split the US market and experiment with the “Order Your Car” business. I’m sure that if it pans out, they will go full Car Ordering everywhere and shrug off when the dealers stars to whine that they can’t do any price gouging anymore.
This is the bigger problem and speaks to the issues with battery expenses and complexity. You don’t de-allocate an entire model unless it’s unprofitable or you can’t meet demand.
The “extreme” response to CARB isn’t though. It’s a CAFE and credits thing, and always has been. FCAtlantis’ lineup is basically trucks, 1980’s Mercedes with big V8’s, and Jeeps. They can’t buy a couple billion dollars worth of emissions credits any more, not because they don’t have the money, but because the people they buy from don’t have any to sell. And they WILL have to pay penalties if they go over on emissions or under on CAFE.
So how do you really quickly guillotine your emissions? Stop selling cars without credits. Duh. How do you quickly increase your CAFE? Only sell the cars with your best numbers. Especially when that margin is razor thin; the official numbers for the Grand Cherokee 3.6 4×4 is 22MPG combined, the 4xe? 23MPG – a whole 1MPG more. They need every single credit and MPG they can get.
It’s never a good day in Florida for anyone who doesn’t think that Adolf guy was really onto something, and maybe if the country just had this one guy in charge they could get rid of all those undesirable people. Maybe just send all those queers off to camps somewhere far away.
Which at this point, does nothing more than inflate profits for Ford corporate at the expense of the dealer. Which was the whole point. Not to benefit consumers. Period. Full stop. Same with Carmax and everyone else. The entire point of no-haggle is so the dealer can say “take it or leave it” and remove power from the buyer. And when the manufacturers do it? It’s to remove any power from the dealer and the buyer so they can screw them both.
Well guess what kiddos? Jeep doesn’t have a no-haggle policy, and 4xe’s? 10%, 15%, even 18% off sticker if you stick to your guns. Typical numbers. And that’s before your other spiffs like conquest.
“No-haggle” has never, ever once benefited the buyer. Ever. Period.
Remember when a few months ago everyone was going “wow, the Marriage Made in Hell figured something out fast! Maybe they’re finally getting their shit together!”?
Pepperidge Farm remembers. Well, and me, obviously.
Am I surprised that Indian-born Mr. Gupta, a Renault employee, has clashed repeatedly with Mr. Uchida, a Nissan CEO? Not even a little. See also the primer on Japanese business culture I wrote a couple days ago. Mr. Uchida said “I have decided this as Nissan.” Mr. Gupta said “hold up, I think we should have more people look at this.” At which point he was most assuredly reminded that 1) Nissan never hired him and never wanted him 2) he is not the boss in the room 3) he is with Mitsubishi, the unwanted child, by way of Renault, and 4) he is a foreigner who is only there at the pleasure of his gracious hosts.
With the new structure and situation, particularly post-Ghosn? Nissan is in charge of things, whether or not you like it, because Ghosn came via Renault. Therefore, Renault in addition to being Gaijin, have dishonored themselves and proven to be poorly managed and untruthful. (Whether or not any or all of it is true.)
As far as Nissan is concerned, Mitsubishi is the small child they really didn’t want to have but who the adoption agency refuses to touch (nobody wants to buy Mitsubishi,) and Renault is the guy who should be thanking them every 30 seconds for still having a job at all. Especially people who were promoted from within Renault.
Which is absolutely not what Nissan thinks or believes. The bullshit with Ghosn (look, the Japanese justice system is literally kangaroo courts, especially for foreigners,) basically blew up anything resembling a real working relationship. Nissan will never accept being subordinate in any way to Renault. The French government, having an equal stake in Renault, will absolutely not accept being subordinate in any way to Nissan. And both sides are convinced, rightly or wrongly, that the other cannot survive without them (and Mitsubishi can go rot.)
And this isn’t insider information or anything like that. Nissan’s been all but screaming it between the lines since Ghosn that Renault is dishonest and weak. Renault’s been screaming it very directly and also that they’re the French government and business answers to them. (Man, the Senard/Bollore/Delbos/de Meo shit alone…)
Honestly, both of them have maybe half a car without the other, and neither have a platform till that’s decided in the divorce. But Renault almost certainly knows the French government would bail them out in a worst case scenario, and Nissan knows that they’d be at the mercy of the banks.
This ain’t getting solved quick or clean.
I’ve already written more than enough, so I’ll be brief. It’s complicated.
Since manufacturers refuse to do anything but make cars more unrepairable every year, dealer service departments must exist. Many if not most dealers are owned by people who frankly, have no business sharing oxygen with the rest of us.
“Since manufacturers refuse to do anything but make cars more unrepairable every year”
As someone that has always bought used, and done all my own maintenance and repair/replacement, I wholeheartedly agree. Here’s something I’d like to bounce off of you; Software/firewall engineers versus hackers have been locked in a decades-long battle of one up-man-ship to which I see no end. As the manufactures seem hell bent on making everything connected, I have nightmare scenarios; Your driving along the interstate, you notice flashing red scull and crossbones on your all encompassing screen with bold text stating they now have control, pay x$ to release,or suffer consequences. I would hope that such a victim would have a presence of mind to put on flashers, shift to neutral, and slowly apply hand brake. I envision the national response to such an attack would be so severe that this is unlikely. What I see as more likely is you go to start your connected car and the screen says this is now a brick. pay x$ to un-brick. How plausible is this? or am I talking out of Jim Carrie’s butt?
It is government regs that make this situation worse.
So, this is very much my area of expertise, to put it mildly. And I’ll put it to you this way: technology doesn’t matter and never will again. Full stop.
I very much do not advertise, detail, or explain the things I do with cars in certain areas because it would immediately send me to prison. No, I am not joking. Because all they have to do is put in something that checks for ‘authorization’ and you accessing anything besides OBD-II is now a crime. And no, I don’t mean the statutory $150,000 court-legitimized extortion.
I mean that if you were to reverse engineer the U-codes for a 2013 Chrysler 300 to figure out why your ABS is broken, you will get slapped with a $152,500 statutory extortion, plus the DOJ may decide to make you the next Aaron Swartz and charge you under CFAA. Since any violation of DMCA anti-circumvention – especially successful ones – is also a violation of the CFAA per the oligarchs.
Now, why do I bring this up? Because manufacturers have very successfully made even the act of analyzing their atrociously insecure systems criminal. By simple virtue of refusing to give permission. The foxes will watch the henhouse, thank you very much, goodbye.
And when I say atrociously insecure? Let me put it this way: if it’s got a CANbus pin anywhere on the outside of the car, you’re fucked. If it’s got ‘wireless app services’ a la Toyota (who keeps leaving S3 buckets public and clicking on email attachments,) you’re fucked. If it’s got an IP address, you’re fucked.
The reason you haven’t seen this nightmare scenario is because one, manufacturers have exerted a monopoly on this exact nightmare scenario. See also Tesla retroactively removing paid-for features and outright bricking used cars.
Two, the difficulty-payoff doesn’t math. Say I deploy a cryptolocker successfully to 250,000 Teslas. Pretty much none of them are going to pay. They’re going to yell a lot, wait 6 months for a new ECU, and at best I might get a thousand dollars for something that is weeks or months of effort and custom coding.
But let’s say I deploy a cryptolocker into Tesla’s absolute joke of an infrastructure. Only takes one successful phishing email, and then I’ve got everything. All their data. All the cars. Everything. Far less effort, and they will have no choice but to pay me millions of dollars to unlock their data. And of course while I’m there I commit some light corporate espionage, maybe cross-border to one of their vendors and ransom that data, and so on.
Now extend this to say, getting into Ford’s network and deliberately locking every connected infotainment system. One, Ford’s going to lie (just like MSI, Toyota, Gigabyte, etc., etc.) and say it’s just an “IT problem” and everything will be fixed soon. While they’re saying that, they and their insurers are already negotiating with the attackers. Then suddenly the “IT problem” is fixed, and that’s good enough for everyone.
See, the fact is, it’s all a business. It’s not just EVIL COUNTRY TRYING TO KILL INNOCENTS or EVIL DICTATOR LOOKING FOR CASH. It’s mostly unethical techbros who realized it’s way more efficient to commit crimes and use the Dunning-Krugerrands to launder the proceeds than to invent their own Dunning-Krugerrands. And as such, they’re looking for lowest effort, highest payout. Always. Efficiency is the name of the game, and why most organizations that take a reasonable level of precaution and measures don’t get hit with this crap. It’s the people stupid enough to think they’ll be ignored, they’re too threatening too be attacked (lolol Dallas PD,) or too lazy to implement basic stuff.
If it takes the professionals 30 days to pwn you, and 14 days to pwn the other guy? They’re going to the other guy first. And if it’s a state actor or a hired hit? Then there is nothing you can do short of unplugging everything including the power. And they’re most definitely not going to waste time trying to breach hundreds of thousands of cars when the average owner is just gonna say “fuck it” and not pay.
Which is what brings us back around to externally accessible CANbus wires. Know what happens with atrocious software security and bad design? Yup. You give car thieves – people who make their living stealing physical objects – an easy way to do exactly that. By doing something as simple as popping a headlight assembly out, they can start the car, unlock the doors, or even reprogram the keys and drive right off. No busted windows, no suspicious markings, just someone out for a late night drive.
And since this has been proven time and time again and thoroughly embarrassed manufacturers? Their solution is to now refuse to acknowledge it’s going on, refuse to give permission to look into it, refuse to cooperate with researchers, insist it is far too hard for ordinary thieves to buy stuff off AliExpress, stick their fingers in their ears, and sing very loudly.
Thanks for the reply. I knew I was asking the right person from reading your posts. I won’t buy anything connected, whenever I see Smart- something( thermostat,fridge,DOOR LOCKS, etc.) I translate Dumb. Of course it’s a necessity to have a computer, a convenience to have a smart phone, I won’t allow banking through that. I take what precautions I can but know it’s insufficient.
Wow worse than i thought. But also for millions you wouldnt hope for a idiot to respond buy one and respond to yourself theoretically or allegedly.
We’d go, but as soon as we got things fixed up a little they’d move right in to enjoy the new amenities and simultaneously complain about how we’re “shoving it down their throats” (which is a phrase they frequently turn to, and I can only speculate about why they seem to like it.) Just like with neighborhoods, restaurants and bars. I only hope it ends up like that Politico piece about young Trump staffers having a hard time finding dates in DC and retreating to the new builds around the Wharf and the Navy Yard.
That article made my day. It’s good to see those shit stains getting what they deserve.
I read rootwyrm entire boring spread. I didn’t see this quote. You are inserting lies that he didn’t say get loss
It’s in there so clearly you didn’t read it very well.
They can order it, the dealer can trade with a dealer in another state, the buyer can drive a few miles after buying on line it is just a manufacturer putting vehicles in the market they are most likely to sell. Are there no business accounting, employees to explain a simple business decision?
Florida is a politically interesting state. Until the 1950s, the politics were very “Southern” in that it was a lot like Georgia. But for 50 years after that, there were so many retirees from progressive Northeast states that it threw the balance of power towards the left, there were so many of them. Around the turn of the century, Florida fell out of favor with retirees from the Northeast but came into favor with Rust Belt retirees who tended to be more conservative. So it’s really back to where it started.
In Florida, the more North you go, the more Southern it is.
Wrong.
Not wrong. South Florida is almost Latin, with some Yankees thrown in. Get past Orlando, it’s like Georgia and Alabama.
Re Florida laws:
Ron DeSantis is no dummy (Yale BA / Harvard JD). He clearly knows how to get exactly what he wants and look like a hero. He could’ve been a great car salesman in his own right.
He looks extremely tough by BANNING all “evil and dangerous” direct car sales to consumers. It’s just anti-American not have a dealer (note the waving of US flag and singing music). We cannot undercut the valuable dealers in Florida.
YET, we can read the very small print read using THAT very fast commercial voice…
“does not include existing car sales by manufactures currently doing direct to consumer sales”.
He will keep Elon and gang happy with EV direct sales. Also hear “No wealthy CEOs were harmed in the making of this legislation” read out loud.
He may not be a dummy but he’s a giant, hypocritical piece of shit. Meaning he’s a republifuck.
FL is so pro dealers that it is really bad for the consumer. Last year they enacted a law that if you wanted to buy out your lease, it can ONLY be done at a dealer within FL, and now dealers are slapping on massive fees ($1,000) to do it as well as marking up the loan rates through them.
I usually buy used so whatever car makers hash out for selling new doesn’t really concern me, so long as I don’t have to drive 2 states over to get service done(cough Rivian cough). That’s probably the main advantage of dealerships, the car manufacturer does minimal investment, and can have one in every town(and that dealer can also have Toyota/Chrysler/Ford franchises to better cover their bases).
Like Tesla has about 230 “dealerships”, Ford has over 10 times that. Imagine the cost to buy/build/employ 2,500 dealerships in the US alone, on top of having to make the cars and manage all that, franchising seems more the American way.
Without sales dollars they cant afford the shop. THINK!
Soo… no more diesel Ram 3500s on dealer lots in those states? Special order only?There isn’t a non-ICE version of those that I’m aware of. Or does this only apply where there is already a non-ICE version of the vehicle available?
Washington is a CARB state so we can’t register any vehicle made after, like, 2014 without CA emissions, so crossing state lines to buy one isn’t an option and I’d be surprised if WA is the only state with that restriction.
Really? Even in California you can bring in and register a car from out of state that doesn’t have CA emissions. That said they require it have a minimum number of miles on it (5000 or 7500 IIRC) to prevent people from buying a brand vehicle out of state and trying to immediately bring it to CA, so that alone would stop a lot of the cross-state shopping mentioned in this article.
Here in Washington CARB standards apply for bringing in model year 2009 and newer vehicles and they only apply to vehicles with fewer than 7500 miles. There are several exemptions as well, such as people moving into the state with vehicles they already own, people inheriting vehicles, and so forth:
https://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/cleancar.html
Ah, that makes sense and is essentially the same as California.
It is a manufacturer not a federal law, nothing to stop anyone from bringing in a legal car even is stalantis doesnt allocate.
But I believe right now these cars do meet CARB emissions, they just won’t in 2026. Until then you could easily go to a neighboring state, buy your full ICE, then register it in one of the 12 states this applies to.
It is and will not be against the law just because Dodge does this.
They said not allocating but dealer can trade with an out of area dealer like what happens 100s of times a day.
Well. Hope it’s worth it to pay a $12000 premium for the 4xe wrangler and lose the option of 2 doors
Ah, yes. The “free state of Florida”, where the government controls what you can read, what you can do with your own genitals, and who you can buy a car from.
And they control what you can search for on the internet. Don’t forget that little tidbit.
The party of small government strikes again!
You forgot the “ -minded” after small.
The hypocrisy with these assholes is absolutely astounding.
Yeah i much prefer the free state of california where you cant collect rainwater in a bucket on your property because the state owns it. Or where they have a third of all homeless living in tents. Where businesses are moving out because it is legal to steal but illegal to stop them. Go idea comrad you stay Ca i will take ANY OTHER STATE.
So I’ve been patiently waiting for the gladiator 4xe to come out (this fall?) and now they are all going to other states 🙁
It sounds like a hybrid would be the only Gladiator you will find on dealer lots. You’d have to order a gas or diesel version, but honestly, you’d probably still have to order a 4xe unless you wanted a well-optioned Rubicon.
I’m in a non ev mandate state so I’m assuming all the 4xe will go to other states leaving the ICE only for me unless I order it.
Stellantis doesn’t make anything even remotely affordable that is electrified, so I’m curious how this is going to go in rural PA and upstate NY. Not that these dealers have been offering anything affordable from those brands anyway.
I mean it’s new allocations so they’ll probably still have a Renegade on the lot.
I was waiting for this response, haha. Two years of Renegades should cover it I suppose.
Stellantis hates anyone who doesn’t want to buy a Jeep or a Ram, and anyone who wants one of those brands is more than willing to pay whatever price they’re offered at.
The CARB state sales restrictions are interesting; if any other major follows suit I am stocking on popcorn futures cause it’s going to be entertaining.
RE: Florida.
They will simply create a new company for that purpose – examples of
Stand-Alone brands? – Lexus and Acura spring to mind. No big deal.
Is anyone able to actually buy VinFasts? I thought they were lease-only
I think you can buy one, if you insist, but for the purpose of sales charts leases have always counted as sales. The OEM is selling the car to the lease company, technically.
I don’t think EVs are going to be as impactful on dealerships as the pandemic was. There’s way less incentive for automakers to build cars of every option and ship them in huge numbers to dealers. Now, every car is bespoke and much more profitable
Stellantis as a name, even when first announced, felt familiar to me. Now I know why; it reminds me of the nonsensical name for some drug that treats a very specific ailment with an equally made-up-sounding-name.
“Ask your doctor if Stellantis is right for you.”
If you experience Stellantis for more than six hours, call your doctor immediately.
The takeaway from today’s Morning Dump:
83 masochists bought a VinFast this year
83 VinFast employees bought a VinFast last year
Ha! Since VinFast is offering cash payouts to owners every time there is an issue, this is probably how they’re supplementing their salary.
This is the correct answer. Maybe not employees per se, but I’ll bet every one of those 83 was to someone either directly or indirectly tied to the company. No one outside the hardcore industry watchers has even heard of them.
This is true.
Many of my friends are pretty well tapped in to the car market. When I brought VinFast up a few weeks ago, none of them had any idea what that was. Only the freaks and geeks know.
83 YouTubers bought a VinFast for the #content.
I think that is highly unlikely. Now, did 83 YouTubers contact VinFast and ask for a free car because they are “influencers”? That one I would totally believe.
Ideally, the dealer network pivots to showrooms and service centers, where you can test drive a vehicle, put in your order, and get repairs/service done. Probably have a limited selection of vehicles available for direct purchase (and probably still have a used lot), but primarily allow people to try things before they order the build they want.
That’s what Tesla does but no cars on lot for sale. Its a showroom and you can test drive. Polestar is similar.