Good Monday morning to you all, and welcome to another edition of The Morning… Something. Renaming TMD is TBD but it could happen by EOW, if not sooner. Or later. Anyway, today’s roundup of auto industry headlines includes the resilience of the mighty Honda Accord, updates on Nissan and Renault’s marriage counseling, news about Toyota’s global dominance and a look at Tesla’s repair costs. Let’s dig in.
You Have To Get Up Very Early In The Morning If You Want To Kill The Honda Accord
Back at The Old Site, we used to call it the Sedanocalypse: the rapid erosion of the four-door sedan market as buyers flocked to crossovers, SUVs and trucks, and automakers couldn’t be more thrilled to accommodate them. After all, the car business is one of margins, and all of those larger vehicles command higher prices than sedans and small cars at generally the same cost of production. (How do you think all these car companies plan to finance their big battery EV plans? Through truck and SUV sales.)
While sedans have fared somewhat better in the luxury arena—stuff like the BMW 3 Series and Mercedes E-Class always do fine, especially globally, and the Tesla Model 3 is a powerhouse—they’ve all but evaporated from the more mainstream brands. Ford doesn’t even make them anymore. I had to check to make sure Chevrolet still makes the Malibu (it does!) The Japanese and Korean brands have kept the fire burning, but sales still aren’t what they once were.
But there are sedans, and then there’s the Honda Accord. (The Toyota Camry too, obviously.) It’s still a power player, even if its sales have been down in recent years, either because of demand or supply chain issues, or both. It remains a massively important car for Honda and for the market as a while. And according to Automotive News, Honda’s dealers in the U.S. are still demanding the automaker keep the sedan party going:
[…] Woelfer expects inventory to move quickly in 2023, even as the automaker builds more vehicles. Honda has said it projects its sales to increase about 25 percent this year.
Honda’s move with the Accord was to take it a little more upmarket. The new-for-2023 Accord not only looks great, but it also offers turbocharged and hybrid powertrains and a ton of new tech like built-in Google Assistant, Google Maps and Google Play. The last Accord was great; this new one will be even better. If Honda’s dealers are right about demand being there, this thing could go down a lot harder than most other sedans in the world.
[Editor’s Note: I actually think sedans aren’t going anywhere. Sure, sure, crossover SUVs are absurdly popular — far more so than sedans — but as the world electrifies and consumers begin placing more and more importance on range figures, keeping Vehicle Demand Energy Down will be key. That term, by the way, refers to the amount of energy needed to move a car down the road; if that’s high, then to get the same range as a vehicle with a significantly lower VDE, you need a bigger battery pack (or a much more efficient powertrain, which is hard to do with an EV), and a bigger battery means more cost. So, it’s better to keep VDE down so a small battery can get you farther, and you know where sedans defeat SUVs quite handily? VDE. They’re lower and sleeker. Granted, SUVs have really gained ground through aerodynamic improvements, among other things, but every mile counts when infrastructure sucks and charge times are slow. -DT].
Nissan And Renault Are Working On It
When my sister got married a few years ago, the toast I offered at her wedding implored her and her new husband not to try to have a perfect marriage. That’s because there’s no such thing; it doesn’t exist. Marriages are made of people, and people aren’t perfect. It only holds up when the parties involved work at being better and growing together over time.
It seems like those crazy kids Nissan and Renault might actually make it, and for that, we’re extremely happy for them. After years of infighting—including the humiliating Carlos Ghosn scandal—the two partners in this alliance are restructuring their deal to be more on equal footing.
This is a complicated story that involves a lot of moving parts, including the aforementioned Ghosn thing, the heavy involvement of the French government in partly-nationalized Renault, their different strengths in different markets, and the Japanese executives at Nissan never really loving the fact that some shots were called by foreigners part of a technically smaller company. (I don’t know where Mitsubishi nets out in this marriage analogy; maybe they have a girlfriend? Maybe it’s an open-ish thing? Hey, whatever works as long as nobody’s getting hurt.) Here’s Reuters on the latest update in terms:
The deal, still subject to board approvals, will see Renault reduce its stake in Nissan to 15% from around 43%, it said. That will see Renault put around 28% of the Japanese automaker in a French trust, crucially making the two more equal partners.
Their unequal relationship had long been a source of friction among Nissan executives. While Renault bailed out Nissan two decades ago, it is the smaller automaker by sales.
The future shape of the Franco-Japanese alliance has implications for both companies as well as the global auto industry. It also highlights how the immense technological upheaval in the auto industry is forcing companies to both partner and compete with a dizzying number of newcomers and tech firms.
Why does any of this matter beyond complicated deals around shares? It’s starting to more and more as both of these global automotive giants figure out the future-technology-mobility stuff, which involves yet more complicated deals and tie-ups:
Renault, for instance, has said it will partner with companies from China’s Geely Automobile Holdings to semiconductor giant Qualcomm Inc.
The French company is separately working to finalise a deal with Geely and to bring Saudi Arabian state oil producer Aramco in as an investor and partner to develop gasoline engines and hybrid technologies, Reuters has reported.
Anyway, I wish them all the best. Including Mitsubishi. I hope she doesn’t get hurt in this whole thing. She’s been through enough already.
I Told You Toyota’s Back, Baby
Say this about Akio Toyoda: He’s hardly leaving the place in a state of chaos and disrepair after he bounces from the CEO’s office for good, presumably to spend his time at track days. At least, that’s what I hope for him. But Toyota’s sales numbers for 2022 are in, and the Japanese automaker is once again the biggest car company in the world.
Reuters reports Toyota moved 10.5 million cars globally in 2022, marking its third straight year in a row as the world’s best-seller. That’s incredibly impressive, given the chip shortage, supply and production issues, skyrocketing prices and an uncertain global economy.
Meanwhile, the Volkswagen Group—the top spot is usually occupied by one of those two companies—had its lowest sales in over a decade, Reuters reports, at 8.3 million cars, implying VW couldn’t navigate those issues (and the war in Ukraine) as well as Toyota did.
Tesla Wants To Cut Repair Costs
EVs are generally cheaper to own and fix than their ICE counterparts. You have a battery, the body, the interior, some motors, brakes, suspension parts, electronics and… well, you get the idea. Fewer moving parts here, literally.
But the costs to repair a Tesla are high, leading to high insurance costs, Reuters reports. There are apparently tons of written-off Model Ys out there with fewer than 10,000 miles on the odometer that insurers just didn’t want to deal with. (Side note: That means more Tesla batteries and motors for EV swaps, so hit up Copart if you want to electrify a vintage 911 or something.)
Insurance carriers, meanwhile, are writing off low-mileage Tesla Model Ys that have been in crashes, and sending them to salvage auctions after deeming many too expensive to repair.
During Tesla’s fourth-quarter earnings call on Wednesday, Musk said premiums from third-party insurance companies “in some cases were unreasonably high” and that the EV maker’s insurance arm was putting pressure on those carriers by offering lower rates to Tesla owners.
Musk also said “we want to minimize the cost of repairing a Tesla if it’s in a collision,” citing changes to vehicle design and software.
“It’s remarkable how small changes in the design of the bumper (and) providing spare parts needed for collision repair have an enormous effect on the repair cost,” he said. “Most accidents are actually small — a broken fender or scratched side of the car.”
This is part of why Tesla launched its own insurance arm, and it’s a rapidly growing business. But it may also be why Tesla’s supposedly working on an updated Model 3: to bring down costs and, I’d assume, repair costs as well.
You know, another thing Tesla could do to fix this problem is to make a version of Autopilot that won’t crash into a fucking Arby’s after just three months of ownership. Just sayin’.
The Flush
Sedans: Do you own one? Will you only buy them? What are they good for when trucks, SUVs and crossovers do provide more utility in a lot of cases?
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Proud owner of a 2006 Acura TSX in awesome condition with low miles (138k), and 6-speed manual. I love this car. It has a killer engine (K24), and handsome, albeit restrained styling that has aged very well. I love coupes and sedans, and will always have one or the other unless I go for that NA Miata I have been hankering for lately. I also own an honest old pickup (1994 F150 long-bed with the I6). That all said, having specific tools for specific jobs is a luxury I have with the space I have. I TOTALLY understand people wanting a swiss army knife do-all vehicle, and you cannot beat a modern crew-cab pickup in that regard. I do think more can get by with something closer to a Maverick (love that little no-BS trucky thing), but to each their own..
About the name, biggest problem I have with it is the “morning” part, not dump part (or whatever you decide) as this is published in the afternoon where I live.
I don’t really feel the new Accord is a step forward in looks. I think it looks pretty generic, with the exception of a few details, looks it could be an earlier version of the 2022, not the successor.
I have a low mileage 2007 Acura TSX I inherited and it’s our 3rd car. It’s an honest car, it can hold some stuff and a dog, but you won’t be taking much lumber home with it. I’m tall and mobility impaired, so climbing in an out of it is a chore and really kills sedans entirely for me. Unfortunately I think the electric sedans will have limited appeal for the same reasons. Old and/or broken people can’t do low cars.
Part of that problem is Honda’s long standing tradition of making their products one step lower and swoopier than what is absolutely necessary.
When the Mrs. finally relented and started looking for something to replace her Mazda 6 (with electrical gremlins), she didn’t even look at SUV/CUVs. Camry, new Mazda 6. Jetta, Passat, were all vehicles she looked at before settling on an Acura TLX. Keep the sedans coming please!
Re: would I keep buying sedans? Absolutely. Have 2 (08 Aura, 19 G70 manual), and a wagon (16 GSW, bought new!) and for me, only towing or a third row would have me get an SUV. I know that the E Wagon has the backwards third row, but it also has Mercedes running costs so that doesn’t seem like a brilliant move for a family vehicle. Would prefer wagons or hatchbacks but that ship has sailed in this country. Maybe a used Regal TourX…
I like sedans, I’ve just never bought one. Married into one. Might buy one. Don’t own one. I do own a sedan based wagon though. Bought two, still own one.
I own and drive a sedan and it’s the first one I’ve had as a daily driver in many years of driving. It’s been a revelation. I don’t want to go back to hatches. The trunk is enormous, fits all I need to carry in that car, and when stuff is in there it’s hidden. The cabin is comfortable and roomy. It’s a pleasant car to drive. It’s a GLI, so it’s still fairly sporty and came with a manual transmission. Perfect car. Long may sedans roam.
Every time a Munro video talks about how awesomely integrated everything is in Telsas, all I can think about is how if anything goes wrong with one of those integrated components you get to replace everything instead of just one part. I’m sure there are huge manufacturing and cost benefits to doing it, but there are drawbacks too. There’s a reason none of the traditional car makers have outright copied a lot of what Tesla has done, and it isn’t because they have any moral scruples about stealing good ideas from each other. 😉
Actual trucks and SUVs have utility and purpose and there are bonafide reasons for owning them (job, snow belt, family size, etc.) But I never understood the gravitation towards crossovers which are cheaply disguised hatchbacks lifted off the ground. Forget the fact that they all look identical, they just look plain terrible when a wagon could accomplish the same things in a far more stylish, better driving package. But since there are now a dearth of wagons I will keep my sedans and stand apart from the crowd. I do have to believe at some point everyone will realize they are driving the same grey penalty boxes and desire non-conformity. Right? Right???
The number of people who care about driving dynamics is dwarfed by the number who care about ride height, ease of entry, and ease of loading kids/cargo.
I take issue to headlines that like to play the term “SUV” as some kind of villain. Yes there are vehicles that are heavy and fit the implied context of SUV (off-road vehicles, large family truck/wagons, etc), but honestly most of the vehicles that get the label aren’t deserving of it. “SUV” is a common catchall for any semi-tall 2 box design and I think we all kinda know that all cars are migrating that way and I am 100% okay with this. These cars are built with the same chassis as sedans, but taller bodies for entirely practical reasons. I.e. wagons and hatches that are now tall enough that you don’t have to drop into them and climb out. There isn’t much distinction anymore for the vast majority and we shouldn’t be creating one. This is especially true as we move away from ICE where there isn’t a compelling reason to stick with the hilariously outdated “light truck” argument. What, the Mach E is an SUV because it’s got half an inch of ground clearance on the accord? The CX30 AWD is some horrid earth hater but the Mazda 3 AWD isn’t?
I want to get rid of this implied negativity towards a body style that
1. Is clearly the winner in consumer preference
2. Is really not that different from hatches and wagons.
If you want to use SUV in the proper context, the argument still has merit, but lets clear the air with what is clearly the body style winner of people.
We have one sedan (Fusion Energi) and one wagon (JSW TDI) and of course I want the best of both worlds: Liftback!
VAG makes the Arteon, A5 and A7 and just a few years ago the Stinger and Regal were options as well…but that’s basically it. I HATE the crappy little trunk opening of this and the last generation Accords and can’t believe the missed opportunity — I mean, they got it with right with the Civic offering liftback in the last two generations, why not the Accord? Guess I’m stuck with VAG for my next ride.
I would argue my Sonata N Line is way more fun to drive than a similarly priced CUV. Also, more passenger space, better fuel economy, etc.
The trunk is still large and honestly way more useful because while it lacks the cubic feet of space what a small CUV offers, I can put way more into it because of the large, flat floor. Do you like stacking your grocery bags? If I have the seats up in our Atlas (I know, bigger than small CUVs but those smaller ones have more space behind the 2nd row), even with a decent sized space behind the third row, my Sonata still easily holds more in a more usable way.
Forgot to add, I went skiing this weekend (up and back same day, 4.5 hours of driving) and decided against taking the Atlas in favor of the Sonata N Line. Better mpgs, more fun on the side roads and easily fit 3 pairs of skis, 3 people and gear. If I added a 4th person, I would have used the Atlas, along with ski box, which honestly is overkill but great to have the space and keep equipment separate on longer trips.
Is there a way to edit? I do have winter tires on the Sonata, regular all seasons on the Atlas.
I like big sedans better than SUVs or crossovers, but small sedans feel like they waste a lot of space. A hatchback (or crossover, if you simply must jack up the suspension) makes more sense for a smaller footprint, but a big sedan just feels better than a big SUV. More commanding, less cumbersome. And yeah, the locked/hidden trunk is nice, especially when every used SUV seems to be missing ita cargo cover.
Yes, I drive a compact manual sedan. A 2012 Cruze Eco. I also have a RAV4 in the garage. The sedan works for my all highway commute, squeezing into small parking spots and hiding stuff out of sight. It’s also fun to drive without being over the top.
I may not always have a sedan once my Cruze gets too tired. My hobbies are tending towards larger fragile things. And I’ll have a need to move people in the next few years. Sedans aren’t great at people moving. A van or crossover is much better for those particular use cases.
In the era of ‘smash and grab’ robberies, the invisible storage area of a sedan’s trunk is very valuable. An SUV with a cargo cover means something is being hidden.
Across my family’s fleet, we have five sedans (Saturn, Toyota, VW) and one coupe (Honda Civic).
Growing up, my family only had coupes until my parents got the minivan when I was 13. We did many road trips in my dad’s Pinto and then Pontiac Phoenix. Five people in a Pontiac Phoenix road tripping NY to FL is ‘character building’.
If you were to watch any of Mark Rober’s recent “glitter bomb” videos on YouTube, you wouldn’t feel so confident about the boot/trunk/whatever. They got footage of thieves in SF methodically knocking out rear wing windows on sedans just so they could reach the folding rear seat latch and check for goodies.
Nothing is 100%, but making it look like it isn’t worth breaking in goes a long way.
A sedan trunk is better in that regard than an SUV open cargo area.
I’m not opposed to sedans, since my wife has a “compact” crossover if I need a truly large space to move say, a range or some other appliance. But since I have a wagon, I get to have my cake and eat it too (I guess, it is a pretty crappy wagon, so maybe that cake is a shelf stable Little Debra product). I’ll say this, the sedan version of most cars seem to be a little quieter than the hatch/wagon version given the separation from the typically poorly insulated cargo area.
One sedan, one wagon, one Pickup. There is no reason for me to own the Pickup other than it was free, and classic. The only times I really need to use the Pickup is to take my yearly allowance of dump runs (2 free beds worth per year). Other than that, I basically just sits there appreciating. I will probably always only own sedans, coupes, wagons, or hatchbacks. I like to steer, not point.
The Morning Dump is a perfect name, why change it? I always look forward to my Morning Dump, if you need to be more PC, then how about The Morning Constitution? Better than some bog standard boring name.
Talking of standards as you American folk call them, we love our 2019 2.0Turbo 6MT Accord, which according to me, is the best Accord ever (at least on these shores) as no more manual Accords are coming to the States – Boohoo Honda. My Beat may beat the driving experience, but for a saloon (oops “Sedan”) the Accord is great. The only possible replacement may be an Integra Type S, with a manual gearbox, you can all keep your Crappy VanDoorne Transmissions and I will row my own until my left leg falls off or I snuff it (probably killed by a Brodozer on the Beltway not seeing my Beat).
CVTs brings me to Nissan/Renault. Renault made some great/interesting cars, Nissan in the 20th Century made some reliable ones. Nissans have all the appeal of Rocky Mountain Oysters now, quantity ruled over quality, let them go under and let Renault make more Twingos, Avantimes and other bonkers voitures. The only thing that impressed me driving an Altima was the ability of the CVT to hold the engine at the point of maximum NVH.
Have a Mazda 3 sedan which I love. The boot is massively larger than any similar crossover I’ve ever had the misfortune to rent and it’s near silent on the motorway.
My parents bought a Lexus sedan on the basis that it “wasn’t an SUV or a Tesla”. They have a Mazda 6 wagon too so I’m quietly proud of their automotive good taste.
+1 for the Mazda wagon, even if it isn’t yours. They should make bumper stickers that say “Proud son of a Mazda wagon owner” like those “My kid is an honor student” or “My son is in the Marines, etc” stickers.
“Sedans: Do you own one?”
No, I own three: a ’67 SAAB 96, a ’76 Volvo 66 GL, and an ’82 Austin Allegro 3.
“Will you only buy them?”
No, I’m also open to trades and donations.
“What are they good for when trucks, SUVs and crossovers do provide more utility in a lot of cases?”
I’ve never owned an SUV or a crossover so I can’t address that. As far as comparisons with trucks go, it’s mostly the obvious point that my sedans offer more weather-resistant interior space for passengers and small items of cargo in a smaller overall package than my ’70 International 1200D does and they provide better gas mileage, too, all of which are frequently good attributes to have in a motor vehicle. They all have trailer hitches so that aspect is a draw, more or less.
A Volvo 66! Ahahahahah. I shre your masochist streak but I can’t quite afford to indulge. My parents had a SAAB-Lancia 600 GLS when I was a wee lad, a much nicer Swedish/Continental collaboration. The sound of rust kept us awake at night, but luckily it was a lease so no matter.
Oh, I very much want a 600.
I have a second 66 GL, too, a ’75 wagon, but it’s in poor condition so its purpose is to serve as a parts car for the sedan. The sedan is yellow and the wagon is white:
https://live.staticflickr.com/4602/25005385657_3d043eb953_c.jpg
“ It seems like those crazy kids Nissan and Renault might actually make it, and for that, we’re extremely happy for them. After years of infighting—including the humiliating Carlos Ghosn scandal”
Not to be that guy Patrick, but I think you misspelled “fucking hilarious Carlos Ghosn shitshow” above.
Out of the 6 cars I have had, I’ve had 1 coupe, 1 hatch (current GTI), and the rest were midsize sedans including 2 Accords.
I would get another sedan, but I think most of the midsize sedans are a bit large for my needs now. Especially with my last sedan, an Optima, I felt it was overkill because it was just me in the car but the extra space was better suited for people, not cargo. Now with a small hatch, I find I use the back seat more than the cargo area 85% of the time – but the big open cargo opening and the space with the back seats dropped is still much more practical on those occasions rather than squeezing through the narrow trunk slot and a rear bulkhead.
Autoblog does real-world trunk space tests that are always interesting to read, using luggage to measure how usable the space is. The Civic sedan was actually best at swallowing the luggage compared to the hatch and the Integra. However, the opening of the hatch still wins for bulky cargo.
Part of the appeal of my Accords, being EX-L 5-speeds, was that they were better equipped and more refined than a Civic, which was appreciated for daily driving more than any extra nimbleness the Civic would have. That gap has narrowed as Honda added more and more equipment to the Civic and the Civic now is roomy enough on paper (haven’t been in a new one) to be a midsize car. So nowadays I’d be more inclined to go Civic, and hatch at that – but still good news for Honda then.
My dad would likely prefer to have another sedan (or coupe), but eventually gave in to something higher for his back problems (a Niro, so he still improved his economy over the Civic it replaced).
I’ll also add – if I needed to grab something on the used market – a used Accord would probably be at the top of the list, and there’s a part of me that does wonder if I should seek out an Accord Sport 2.0T 6MT (if I grow increasingly wary of VW ownership). But all of that is bordering on typical car enthusiast talk about not buying the cars when they’re new and complaining they’re no longer available.
For my dad who was shopping used, a sedan was still under consideration – I wanted to nudge him to a ~16-17 Accord, figuring the extra space/better ride/more seat adjustments would probably help over a Civic, and they sat higher than the now-outgoing Accord generation. But, with a long commute the Niro improved mileage at least 20% in the process too.
Own a sedan? I’m not sure……I have a MINI Clubman S and an Audi Allroad, both are wagons…..but not SUVs
I own a 2016 Accord EX-L V6 sedan and I still really like it. Does everything pretty well. I got access to a truck for truck stuff.
I’m looking to buy another Accord or Camry, but not sure if that is going to work out. Currently have a ’22 Accord Sport loaner for the Pilot that’s taking a months long service visit. That 1.5L engine just isn’t going to cut it. Loaner is fine but owner is not. Now though, the 2.0L is gone. That leaves the Hybrid in the Honda. I’ll reserve judgement until I drive one of the 11th gen Accords, but not holding my breath.