Last night I drove my BMW i3 to a charging station in Pasadena, where I witnessed some of the most selfish, pathetic behavior I’ve seen in a while. (Editor’s Note: And he works on the internet all day, people! —PG). A Tesla driver saw that his fellow man was in a vulnerable position, but decided not to help in order to save some money. The Lightning owner was unhappy, and a yelling match ensued. The whole situation was absurd.
I’d just driven from Santa Monica to Pasadena to have a birthday dinner (my friend’s parents took me out to a nice Mexican spot) and to volunteer with my friend at a kitten-rescue organization. My BMW i3, equipped with a rather small 22 kWh battery that really only offers about 75 miles of range before it fires up the two-cylinder gasoline “range extender” under the rear floor, was at 3 percent. As I’m not a huge fan of spending money on gas when I don’t have to, I headed to a charging station near the pet store where my friend and I were volunteering.
It’s called the Arroyo EV Charging Depot, and it is absolutely massive, featuring 20 Tesla Superchargers and six “Power Up” chargers featuring CCS and CHAdeMO plugs.
The Arroyo EV Charging Depot at 64 E. Glenarm St. is NOW OPEN! Enjoy these new Level-3 EV fast chargers for FREE 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘢 𝘭𝘪𝘮𝘪𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦! pic.twitter.com/Mt6jpcGJF4
— City of Pasadena (@PasadenaGov) November 3, 2021
Here’s the setup: You can see lots of Tesla charging stations on the left; on the right side of the image are the non-Tesla chargers:
Here’s a look at the charging depot from the front; you can see the six CCS/CHAdeMO spots right here in the front. A Nissan Leaf, a Chevy Bolt, and a BMW i3 can be seen using them:
Anyway, here’s how the scene looked last night:
I pulled in, got ready to fire up a CCS charger, and a Ford F-150 Lightning pulled into a spot next to me. I had a 175 kW charger, and the Lightning driver was parked in front of a slower 50 kW charger. We chatted a bit, and I decided to trade spots with him given how small my battery pack is (and how huge his is). He’d need the extra power more than I. (Plus, my i3 can only charge at speeds up to 50 kW anyway).
The only problem was, the higher-output charger that I’d just traded was broken. Just after I offered the Lightning driver his old spot back, another high-output charger became available, so the Lightning owner put his truck into reverse and backed up:
But, before he could park at the charger (it might have been before the Lightning owner started backing or maybe slightly after — I don’t recall), a white Tesla backed in. The Lightning owner talked with the owner, saying he had no other options besides that spot; I was in the 50kW charger, and the other two 175kW chargers were broken. The Lightning owner pleaded with the owner (I cannot say how polite he was; it all happened a bit fast), saying there were many Tesla Superchargers wide open, but the Tesla owner refused to move.
The exchange between the Lightning owner and the Tesla owner escalated to shouting and cursing before the Tesla owner walked away from his now-charging car, leaving the Lightning owner with no place to juice up. I intercepted the Tesla owner just to ask him what was going on; “These chargers are only 20 cents; the Tesla chargers cost [about 50]” is roughly what I recall the Tesla driver saying before he left.
It was a pretty poor display of EV charging etiquette. And given how many Tesla owners over the years — since they’ve often been early adopters — have been coal-rolled or had charging stalls blocked by gas cars, you’d think he’d be more sympathetic.
But I wanted to know why this ended the way it did; why there’s a rate difference in charging, and what the city thinks of Tesla drivers using non-Tesla spots. Are there any rules about this?
I reached out to the city of Pasadena, and wound up on the phone with EV Program Manager Evan Johnson. He talked about how, in large part due to the many payment forms they have to facilitate, and also the fact that they aren’t maintained by Tesla (which has dialed EV charging in better than anyone), non-Tesla chargers tend to have more “fault points” and thus down-time than Tesla chargers do.
Pasadena and Tesla build joint sites. “They operate their chargers, and we operate our chargers separately,” he told me, mentioning that the Arroyo EV Charging Depot is one of the busiest in the country, with about 30,000 charging sessions each month.
When I talked with him about the situation I’d witnessed, he gave what I found was an appropriate answer for someone in his position. “Any EV is an EV,” he said. “Tesla has that CCS adapter, so for us they’re just electric vehicles…We don’t dictate what type of EV can charge at that network.”
To be sure, Pasadena banning Teslas—the most popular EV in the city—from a charging network partially paid for by city taxes would not go well, so his statement is a smart one. “We’re a utility, but we’re also part of the city. We’re trying to encourage charging,” he told me. “As a utility, we receive state funds for putting in charging programs.”
The situation between the Tesla owner and the Lightning owner in the Ford F-150 Lightning is one that Johnson said he took responsibility for. “The onus is on us,” he said. “We’re actually in design for an additional 12 [chargers]; we already put in conduit for an additional 12 chargers.” In total, that will make 18 CCS chargers—comparable to the 20 Tesla Superchargers.
“Tesla can build faster than we can. We do have plans to… be comparable in numbers,” he said, noting that the 175 kW chargers cost $85,000 apiece to install. Pasadena apparently has 35 EV charging projects, with plans to have 1,000 chargers before long.
Johnson also noted this about the situation last night: “Our stance is that an electric vehicle is an electric vehicle. I can’t dictate [who charges where]…[the driver] may be an Uber driver; they may be trying to conserve cost.”
I do agree with him. We don’t know the economic situation that the Tesla owner is dealing with. Maybe times are tight for him, and if so, I wish him all the best in resolving that. The Tesla chargers cost 47 cents per kWh during the day, while the non-Tesla chargers cost between 15 cents off-peak and 20 cents peak. So he’s saving around 27 cents per kWh. If his Tesla Model Y Long Range Dual Motor has a 75 kWh battery, and he has to charge 90 percent of it, he’s saving $18 by foregoing the Tesla Supercharger. That’s not nothing.
Sure, the Lightning owner probably only has to wait 20-30 minutes or so for the Tesla to charge (but who knows if the Tesla driver will return on time) [Edit: Per the Lightning owner, who reached out to me via email, the Tesla owner did not return for about 45 minutes. That’s approximately when the Lightning owner left. -DT] , and the Tesla owner did get to the spot first and may not have realized the Ford was on its way there, but I still wish the Tesla owner had had some sympathy for another EV driver who had no other options. I still find that unacceptable; this whole situation could have been so much better resolved. For these two grown men to resort to yelling and cursing—all over what, in LA, barely buys you a damn kale salad at Erewhon.
Figure it out, and stop being so selfish! We’re all in this together, dealing with an imperfect EV infrastructure; let’s be cool to one another.
For my part, I drove off and let the Lightning owner take my spot. My beloved i3 has a gasoline range-extender in the back, after all.
[Update (Aug 24, 2023 17:16 ET): After reading a number of comments, my view on the situation has changed a bit. Whereas my initial stance was that the Tesla driver screwed the Lightning driver over, since the Tesla driver had a bunch of open chargers and the Lightning guy didn’t, the reality is that the cost-delta between the Superchargers and CCS chargers could have been as high as $20 for the Tesla driver, and that’s not nothing. The fact that the Lightning guy was at the chargers first and happened to park at a broken one isn’t necessarily something that the Tesla driver has to concern himself with. I think it would have been nice had he shown a little more understanding given that we’re all in this EV-transition together, and infrastructure is a problem that we all struggle with. I personally would have just charged at the Supercharger with the understanding that taking that cheaper spot puts the other gentleman in a bind, but if I were in a tight financial bind myself, I’d have probably just talked it over with the Lightning driver. Though maybe he was intimidated, as the situation was indeed tense. So I’ve updated the headline and lede; I understand both people’s perspectives, here. -DT]
Last year those non-Tesla chargers were free for a while. There’s an unwritten rule that if someone is waiting, you stop charging at 80%. After that, charging slows down considerably. One guy in a Model 3 would always be there at night charging it all the way to 100%. I think it was a taxi. Now that’s a greedy SOB if there ever was one.
So you’re telling me if I buy an EV, I’ll have to deal with Tesla owners personally? Where’s my hellcat?
There’s a vital piece of information missing here-did the ford guy quickly and politely offer to cover the difference in price? Because it sure sounds like the Tesla dude did nothing malicious, just pulled into an open spot. That’s a public charger and he has just as much of a right to use it as the other guy.
What would you do if you pulled up to a gas pump, and someone started screaming at you to move and pay $10/gallon at the other pump? Unless you put cash in my hand to cover the difference and are polite/respectful, I’m really not going to give a damn if you have to wait to fill your crappy car that only works off one specific pump.
Seriously, nobody buying a car is surprised that it’s difficult to charge a nontesla in public at this point. And owning a Tesla in no way obligates you to send an extra $20 to elon every time you fill up, regardless of your personal situation. I’m really having a difficult time imaging this where the ford owner isn’t just an entitled prick.
The obvious answer here is for the city to force Tesla to charge the same rates as the city/utility chargers if those Tesla chargers are going to be in the same lot, or for the city/utility to charge the same rate as Tesla. Then the Tesla driver would have no financial reason to occupy a more limited charging station, and we could rightly accuse him of being an ass. So the real villain of this story is the city/utility that charges so much less than Tesla for the same electricity. Maryland actually has (or had? not sure) a law on the books to regulate the prices of gas. Gas station owners are not allowed to sell gas below a statewide average price. This was done because large retailers were able to undercut individual retailers by such huge margins that individual retailers were being driven out of business. I don’t blame this Tesla driver, who got to the space first, for trying to save money. Yes, there are open Tesla charging stations but they cost more than twice as much?! At a time when so many people are struggling financially, I would not voluntarily pay $18 more to fill up my car at a gas station just because somebody else WANTS to use the pump I’m at. The Tesla driver was there first, the charger works with his vehicle, and he’s saving money. The Ford owner has no right to that charger, other than some made up entitlement in his own mind. I normally fall on the side of “most Tesla drivers come across as selfish pricks” but this is one instance I can’t get behind that sentiment.
In this case Tesla is charging a premium for an undeniably premium service-the ability to confidently travel and easily charge your car. I’m sure their chargers and maintenance cost much more than the broken crap the city put in, and they invested the capital to put in an excess so this kind of situation doesn’t arise. Doesn’t mean Tesla owners have to pay up when the taxpayer subsidized option is working. I don’t fault the city for not putting the screws to the consumer on price, but think it’s a bit shortsighted to not up the price a bit and instal a few extra chargers (or, you know, pay someone to maintain the ones there).
To put it in perspective, the average sedan or crossover has a 15 gallon tank, which means the price difference is equivalent to over a dollar a gallon. An increase that big is literally enough to cause a national crisis (see: last July).
Or, one of them could have just waited until the other was done. These people both signed up for this whole “half hour to refill” game. Go shop a little longer or watch a movie instead. If you have places to be, driving an empty EV isn’t the smartest play in the book.
Charging etiquette is not something that exists. A lot of EV owners will just treat charging spots as reserved spots for their cars and not even plug them in. Most people will just walk away from their EVs for as long as they feel like, regardless of charging time. If I had to generalize, which I obviously do, I’d say that 1st gen Nissan Leaf owners are the worst – they have basically nothing to gain from even visiting a level 3 charger, but park there anyway. The next worse is Rivian owners. Every Rivian I see at a level 3 is sitting there actively trying to show off their car like it’s a tailgate party topping off to 100% charge for the real-world version of clicks and likes. They really hate when a Taycan pulls up. Like jeez, man, I just need to plug in for 15 minutes to get to some shithole I’m going to, and safely back. You aren’t Jay OR Silent Bob, and this isn’t Clerks. Something very much needs to give in this department. The Tesla Superchargers were less obnoxious due to just larger numbers, and also the fact that everybody is in the same car, with the same needs, the same faults, and FOR ONCE you were in a place where nobody gave a shit.
Not sure why, but I found this hilarious.
Because you’re adapting to California people. California life.
Michigan gets it. Life is just a bunch of shitholes and the roads between them.
Where I work, you can get your charging privileges pulled for doing this and it still happens. Saw a Polestar sitting at a station unplugged during normal operating hours just yesterday. It’s not even a good parking spot, it just saved him from having to find an open spot.
Tesla owner. Enough said.
That bumper sticker is all that needs to be said, especially if anyone has actually used Autopilot which is a hazard. Most amount of phantom braking I’ve ever experienced.
Really, 20 cents vs 50, and I’d have to be the nice guy and pay 50 to be nice ?!?
Even a broken clock shows correct time twice a day. This Tesla owner could very well be the jerkiest jerk in the world, but I’m with him on that one.
If I was the Tesla guy – unless the Ford owner is in an emergency – he can have my spot if he pays me the price difference. It’s not like being a Tesla guy I’d be beloved by other non-EV Ford trucks rolling coal on me and boxing me any chance they get, and I’d have to carry some love for them.
I think there’s no excuse for this Tesla owner. I would have grabbed the necessary change from my car and said ‘Your charging session is on me, move to the Tesla charger.’
What an asshole.
The Tesla owner is not wrong, he is as entitled to the spot as anyone else. if you’re such a good samaritan give up your own spot and get gas for your i3, and if the ford owner so in a hurry, give the Tesla owner his 20 bucks to offset his loss for higher rates. or better, wait for your turn like adults. you’ve made a wrong charger choice now deal with it instead of being an entitled Karen and make a long detailed article to bash someone that didn’t want to do anything with you, or doing good things as defined by you that will make him lose money. give that Tesla owner 100 bucks to move and treat him to dinner or a beer while charging. that’s what I think is being a good courteus ev owner etiquette. so what do you think?
I did give up my spot, and I drove home on good ol’ fashion gasoline. Thank god for that range extender! PHEVs rule!
As for the rest of your take: You and I think differently, and I think that’s fine. In my view, if you see that someone was at the facility first but was unlucky enough to have parked at a broken plug, and the plug you just parked at is the only one they can use while you’ve got other options to charge up, the courteous move is to head to a Supercharger. It’s not a requirement, it’s just the nice thing to do.
But that’s just my opinion, and one I have every right to voice on this platform I built. I’m totally fine with you voicing yours here, as well.
-entitled Karen 🙂
If the plug I’m parked at is more than twice less expensive than the one I’d have to move to, I’d have to be compensated, or make the deliberate choice of spending my money to be nice. I could make this choice, or not, depending on different factors. But in both cases, I’d find it strange to be expected to do it as a gesture.
The situation here sounds similar to someone asking me to give them the last box of XXL super-rebated, more than half priced box of some product from my shopping cart at a store, in exchange for a regular box of the same product, at more than twice the price, because the XXL one is the one they need – I might do it or not, but being expected to do it or be stigmatized for it in the media is not something I’d find normal.
It seems to me that very few of the people commenting here have actually read the part about the price on the different chargers being different.
And for what it’s worth – I find the “…to save a few bucks…” part of the title a little misleading. Sounds like we’re talking more than double the price from one plug to the other.
I don’t think the shopping cart situation is quite the same, but I can appreciate your opinion nonetheless.
I don’t see how it’s different – client A asks client B to give him the least expensive article – of which, at the time, there’s only one remaining, and on which, incidentally, client B already has his hands on.
Once again, I don’t dispute the qualities of the Tesla owner – I’m just puzzled by the logic of what their behavior should be.to be considered non-jerks.
The problem isn’t really that the Tesla “should” be charging at the Tesla chargers. It’s totally fine that he wants to use the cheaper ones, IMO.
The problem is that the Lightning was at the charging site first, but just happened to chose a broken charger, which he couldn’t have known, and the Tesla took the other one. Of course, the Tesla guy probably didn’t KNOW at the time that the Lightning accidentally picked a broken one, and I don’t think he’s in any way REQUIRED to give up his charger, but it would be nice of him to give it to the Lightning since the Lightning WAS there first and the Tesla driver has plenty of other options IF he doesn’t want to wait for someone else to leave.
I have never been at a charging station, so correct me if I’m wrong.
If it’s anything like a gas station, and there’s a line to enter said gas station – if there are several pumps – if I realize that the pump I picked up is broken, I would expect to be allowed to pick up the next available line (thus, cutting ahead of the line that is outside of the gas station), but I would NOT expect you to give up your spot at the pump behind me, just because yours suits me and works.
You arrived after me, but after I chose a pump, I can’t expect anyone else to wait for me to check whether it works, then pick up a different one if it doesn’t.
Add the situation where the gas at your pump costs more than half less than the one on mine, and I have even less reasons to expect you to give it up, no matter how nice you would be.
Generally, people are helpful/friendly at charging stations, and let others know which chargers are broken, working slowly, etc., especially at non-Tesla locations that often have just ~4 chargers.
If one person pulls in first then realizes the charger they pulled into was broken, it wouldn’t be strange for the next person to let them use the next available station, even if they had just pulled into it. I’ve offered before when it seemed like a person who was there before me was having trouble with their charger.
Again, I’m not saying it’s in any way *required* for people to do this, but it would be nice of them. It’s unlikely they’ll have to wait the full 20-30 mins or whatever, anyway, if there are other cars already in the middle of their charge session.
All this is valid IF all the chargers charge the same price. My understanding is they did not.
I don’t find it a courtesy to ask someone to lose their own money in order for them to be deemed curteous.
And I still have that issue with the “to save a few bucks” title, as I don’t think we’re talking “a few bucks” as in low single digits amount of money.
The guy refused to give up a $0.20/kwh charger for a $0.50/kwh one. At 100kw, that’s a $30 difference. At 50kw, it’s a $15 difference
The whole discussion should be done in full acknowledgement and understanding of this little detail.
I never said anything about him spending more money in that post. It’s his choice to wait for the next open charger OR use the more expensive Tesla chargers. USUALLY that’s not even an option.
My point is that if two people are inherently waiting for a *working* charger (no one is waiting around just for the fun of plugging into a broken one), then the person who was there first should get a working charger. If they happen to pull into one that doesn’t work unbeknownst to them, then it’s not unreasonable to think the person behind them would let them use the other open charger that works rather than jump in and take it from them because they accidentally picked a non-working one.
Yes, they’ll have to wait a few minutes (probably not THAT long since there are more chargers than JUST the one working one, usually), and it’s not a strict requirement, but it’s also not unreasonable to think that it’s courteous to let the person who was there first to charger first and not penalize them for accidentally picking a broken one.
This is not that drastically different to me pulling into a gas station that has limited diesel pumps to find they’re all occupied by regular cars or even worse people just going into the store for stuff. Turns out, a lot of people are just shitty and don’t care to be polite.
When I had a diesel car, this drove me nuts, especially when there was only one diesel pump and many open gas-only pumps.
Yup. The same people who park at the pump to go in the store (usually with closer parking spots wide open) are now driving teslas. This guy would do it even if cars were lined up behind him to get gas
It is drastically different, it amounts to you pulling into a gas station that has different prices for the same diesel fuel, and you expecting someone to give up their cheap diesel pump spot for your expensive diesel pump spot, because you realized your cheap diesel pump doesn’t work and there are only expensive diesel ones left.
Sadly, this isn’t shocking behavior.
I know you were just trying to be a conduit to a solution here.
But, be careful when you get involved in high voltage situations with amped up people like this.
You never know when someone might blow a fuse and start lighting people up.
Some people don’t know how to conduct themselves in public these days.
Consider it payback…
https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/tesla-icing.jpeg
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-supercharger-blocked-iceing-record-photo/
People in Ford, GM and Ram pickup trucks have been some of the biggest assholes to Tesla owners.
Yeah, payback against someone who has never wronged you ever… Wait, that’s not how payback works.
I hope you don’t use violence ever, because with morals like that you could justify genocides…
“Yeah, payback against someone who has never wronged you ever…”
Who said the world was fair?
“I hope you don’t use violence ever,”
I use it all the time. For example, just this morning, I crushed a bug!
But it’s an electric truck …
Not saying it was ‘fair’. But it’s still an F150. And these days it seems, some of the most aggressive assholes are in full size pickup trucks.
david, your sense of fairness warms my heart. BUT we as a species really aren’t too good at “I suffered from ‘fill in the blank’ so I won’t do that unto others” we’re really good at “feel my pain”
I’m curious why you obscured the jerk’s licence plate. He deserves to be outed.
Because everyone can have a bad day. They don’t need to be potentially harassed because of it.
I agree with not showing the license plate, but having a bad day doesn’t make you do this or make you more likely to do this, the Tesla driver’s actions likely were less convenient and took more time than if he were to pull up to the Tesla charger.
That being said I usually go with the ‘let “karma” sort it out’.
Fair.
How many reasons does one need NOT to move to California?
That’s hilarious. Like other states don’t have their share of a$$holes? Have you even met the human race?
If I was filling gas for two dollars and a guy asked me to swap to a five dollar pump, I would also say no
This does seem like a bit of a problem.
This 100%
The price rate difference was significant. It’s not a few pennies.
It’s like people look at the cents/kwh and forget about the multiplication.
Why are cities on the hook to build out charging infrastructure? You don’t see them fronting the bill for a gas station. Genuinely curious.
Because they are the only logical entities who can build them. We are at an inflection point over gas vs electric, and also which charging standard to use.
No other car company (or group) can replicate what Tesla did with their charging stations. It’s too costly, especially if the charging standards become outdated anyway.
Gas stations would be the logical place to add new charging stations, but oil companies are not about to spend money investing yet when there’s still short term money to be made in selling ever increasingly costly gas.
So municipal govt is trying to fill the need for a charging infrastructure to bridge the gap until we can switch away from oil.
Yeah, no. What you are essentially recommending, is taxing everyone, for the few who have electric vehicles. I seem to recall a little Tea Party back in the 1700’s, which was organized to protest such behavior.
Everyone gets taxed for schools, even if you don’t have kids. Everyone gets taxed for the fire department, even if your house is made of concrete block. Everyone gets taxed for roads, even if you don’t own a car. How is this different?
Actually everyone doesn’t get taxed for roads. In places where the largest portion of road repair is funded by fuel taxes, rich EV drivers get to weasel out of paying their fair share.
Lol the tea party? The people who protested taxation without representation? How is that relevant to this discussion?
If you can’t see how it’s relevant, nothing I say will make a difference. If you can, then you wouldn’t have replied that way. Not my job to educate you.
“No other car company (or group) can replicate what Tesla did with their charging stations.”
I completely disagree with that. I believe ANY car company can acheive what Tesla did. All it takes is money, planning, willingness and some long term vision from people at the top.
I wish I could upvote this more. Until everyone signed up with Tesla, they all just wanted to keep the status quo – they build the cars, delivering the energy is somebody else’s problem. The automaker that realized the old way wouldn’t work would have printed money. Instead, they’ve all given up.
Yeah, Volkswagen literally did it. They were FORCED to do it and the people buying/specifying the hardware are seemingly incompetent, but they built the network.
“Gas stations would be the logical place to add new charging stations, “
Actually that is exactly what is happening in the EU and I’ve even seen some gas stations in the Toronto area with BEV chargers.
I would think fast food restaurants, supermarkets, and big box stores are the most logical places for EV chargers in urban areas. Add tourist traps when you’re out on the highway.
Umm, no, others could do it if they wanted to ie if they thought they could make a good profit. As far as gas stations being a logical place for chargers I’d say no they aren’t, most just don’t have the real estate needed for any serious charging instlations. See Shellrecharge.com as to how an oil company is going about building a charging network. Yes there aren’t a lot out there right now but they are expanding and recently purchased an existing network, Volta to speed up that process.
“Why are cities on the hook to build out charging infrastructure?”
That’s not reality when it comes to Tesla superchargers. The cost for those is 100% paid by Tesla.
It’s all the other car makers, with all their political lobbying, that push for what you say.
Just curious, not having interacted with any of them, but why don’t chargers have some sort of easily visible signal to show when they are busted? Like the light out on a grocery store checkout (or the red light on a kaput self-checkout)? Or do they have such a thing that I’m not aware of? Seems like being able to see which ones are working from a distance would limit these sort of interactions.
That light is busted too
Right on RK: Anyone who has worked in automation knows about Andone Lights;
https://www.safetyblognews.com/andon-lights-need-know/
There are probably tens of thousands of these red/yellow/green lights used in the automotive industry and somehow they couldn’t be adapted to car chargers. </s>
Probably because of how bad a look that would be.
The only thing more assholish than a Tesla owner or someone from LA is a Tesla owner from LA.
I’m both a Tesla owner as well as an LA native (well.. Ventura Co.) and over my 26 years living there I’ve seen some shit.. This story is pretty tame, so buckle up David. I live in the midwest now, and though there are assholes here as well, its a different breed altogether.
It’s like self-righteousness squared.
But in a GOOD way…
No, no. I was wrong. It’s not good. Sorry. Not good at all.
But we can’t call it bad. Because then we are fascists.
“The only thing more assholish than a Tesla owner or someone from LA is a Tesla owner from LA.”
No. Coal rollers are the biggest assholes.
Neck and neck my friend, for different reasons. One cares not at all about the fellow human, one cares way too much (not in a good way). I’ll let you decide which is which.
I dislike self-righteous EV behavior a little more than flagrant coal rolling bros. The coal roller will eventually discover that there are laws about that which can be enforced. But self-righteousness creates similar social discord, yet has no readily enforceable legal sanction to encourage community cohesion and harmony.
Tell me again how EV’s are the way of the future?
If you read about how for about 2 – 3 decades people had to maintain their Model Ts, which included such fun as “adjusting their spark points”, “putting them up on blocks for the winter”, “not getting your hand/finger ripped off by the hand crank starter” and yes, “trying to find available petroleum that was not in shit shape”, then I think you’d realize that we are in much better shape at the beginning of the EV era. Just sayin’. Also, elevently hundred billion dollars (and that’s an under estimate) is on its way to build charging infrastructure.
I do like the fact that one day very soon I will be able to use my solar PV, which I already have, to charge my car and I may be able to weeks to months without having to plug into anything other than electricity that I got from my own panels.
Oh just wait till you can use your car as a mobile power bank!
This industry is experiencing hiccups in its infancy! Burn it down!
Inadequacy of the grid and charging infrastructure, with no firm plan for fixing that before mandates occur, is more than a hiccup. It’s a plan for failure.
Nah.
For all the Tesla fanboying, I’m surprised the Tesla driver even considered charging at the non-Tesla branded space. Plus, why are you literally nickle and dimeing electricity rates when you’re driving a $50,000 car?
Why does a company that sells $50,000 to $100,000+ cars make such a big deal about cost control to the point that they eliminate all knobs and buttons, hide all paint color choices behind larger trim packages, and build their interiors from the cheapest materials available?
A base Model 3 is $40k minus tax credits, so many are under $30k in California.
Knobs and buttons on the steering wheel, stalks, and doors of the Model 3/Y.
There are zero paint color choices hidden behind trim packages. Any trim can have any color.
They’re not great, but not even close to the cheapest.
I mean, base colors vary by trim, which is true. It is kind of pissy to charge for any other color. Of course this is not unique to Tesla. But making that charge $2500 for a basic color is.
As far as the other complaints, I think most of them are not that big of a deal. The main problem with a Tesla right now is not the car, but the Musk.
“I mean, base colors vary by trim, which is true.”
The “free” color for every Model Y, regardless of trim, is dark silver.
Trim level has no effect on the color options or prices.
I think they keep switching it. The last time I checked, the perf version was dark silver, the long range and/or the basic version was white.
Generally, the “free” color is the same for all trims. Perhaps for some brief periods during the changeover (the free color was originally Black, then white, now dark silver), the color is different per trim.
Either way, the original claim that “paint choices are hidden behind trim packages” is false. The paint options are the same for all trims.
This is the real argument. In summary, why is the Tesla driver being a dbag and why do they seem to fast be the ones acting like the “rolling coal” chads of the EV world? Like most of us were like “oh, a Tesla driver” when we read it was a Tesla driver. They made an F150 Lightning owner look like the hero (albeit barely). That’s kind of an accomplishment of sorts!
Why is it that ‘charger broken’ is issue that seems to be unresolved in the industry?
Isn’t a charger just a rectifier, some caps, a current limit/measure device a microprocessor controller, a cable and a plug ? Maybe there is a payment interface attached also.
These seem like pretty low tech or standard off-the-shelf components.
The industry apparently can get those dumb ass touch screens integrated into the instrument panels of every other car, and yet doesn’t have reliable chargers?
How come the chargers break?
It doesn’t seem like the issue is money. Electrify America has spent a ton of money recently completely replacing unreliable hardware. Unfortunately, they replaced it with more unreliable hardware. So, my conclusion is that they’re either incompetent at specifying the equipment or incompetent at confirming/enforcing that the hardware manufacturer provide equipment meeting those specs.
I don’t think the chargers break so much as the payment networking stuff breaks. If it can’t take your money it won’t charge your car.
One major problem has been the cellular networks constantly end of life router hardware. 2G -> 3G etc. All that hardware has to be replaced. That’s why a lot of chargers went out of service.
Also many chargers aren’t run by municipalities and there isn’t good customer service. Sometimes they’re just giving away free power and the incentive is low to stay on top of it.
I bet the charger in the article didn’t stay broken long though.
Crappy behavior or not, Bro-Trucks took great pleasure in blocking charger spots for a long time. This F150 guy probably not one of them, but included by association. Just like typical Tesla drivers. Its another great divide this country is producing and allowing.
inb4 slash his tires
I own a Model 3 and a Bolt, and have used a variety of charge locations for each over the past five years. I mostly see polite charging etiquette from both Tesla and non-Tesla EV drivers — but rude behavior on rare occasions. When it’s rude, it is absolutely not more frequent for the rudeness to be on the part of a Tesla driver.
Tesla drivers I assume can afford to not be rude since they’ve always enjoyed the best charging network. This is an interesting corner case in this article.
Some Tesla owners buy very used, especially when prices are falling. Dont equate well off w/ Tesla, there’s plenty of $20k Teslas these days. I’m not defending the Tesla guy, I’m trying to get in his head.
I like turtles.
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Can we ban this guy? This sort of comment/behavior is obnoxious.
I’ll second this motion. Let’s keep the Autopian civil.
Shut up jackass.What kind of turtles do you like?
Donatello was my favorite.
…now that I think about it, VW should do a custom ID Buzz Party Wagon, stat.